David Banner says Black Women Should Not Perm Their Hair

[lilyofthevalley]

I still don't see anything positive that comes of anyone pointing out that Black women should not relax their hair, that it is Black on black crime.
India Arie made a statement about hair issues amongst black women in a positive way.

There was nothing positive about this particular statement. No one cares if all white women dye their hair blond, no one cares if they all tan. Why is it so important to people to talk about a black woman's hair. I don't see why it is so important to pursue this topic; or else its a personal issue for you.

Well the way I see it, people who are not white don't really concern themselves with what white people do. Also I never claimed that there was anything to be gained, postive or negative, from people pointing out that black women should not relax their hair. People express all kinds of opinions that don't amount to much of anything. But if there are black women out there who talk about their natural hair in a negative light, then off course some people are going to pick up on that and assume that all black women relax their hair because they hate it. I'm just saying that people who express their contempt for natural hair are also to blame for why people like David Banner exist. Also perhaps people don't question white women who get tans because, unlike those black girls I mentioned, they're not sitting on crowded buses talking about how they won't date someone because his skin is pale and nasty.

 

[JessCNU]

I don't know why some natural and relaxed women bump heads so much. each person made a decision about their own hair and it really shouldn't matter to anybody else but that person.

Many relaxed women will always be seen and people who relax because the "hate" themselves or their natural hair. Some relaxed women feel this way and some DON'T. Some relaxed women do it by choice for a different option and some do it because they plain ol don't like their texture.
Many Natural women will continue to come across as defensive about natural hair and their opinion about women who relax. Some natural women could care less what anybody does with their hair and some natural women will feel the need to look down on folks who make the decision to relax.

Either way you slice it I know i'm a black women who chose to get a relaxer and that I do not apologize for. if I decide to go natural then that's my decision too but i'm not gonna judge anybody for the decisions that THEY make with THEIR hair. regardless of my feelings on it.

 

[Amerie123]

Not all naturals have a hard time caring for their hair, just like not all relaxed women have chewed up hair.

I know, that's why I said most of the time it takes more time to do. I know that's not the case all the time.

 

[Southernbella.]

I know, that's why I said most of the time it takes more time to do. I know that's not the case all the time.

How do you even know that it's most?

 

[Amerie123]

How do you even know that it's most?

Because it is; okay, well maybe not (I cant assume, like ppl shouldn't assume most relaxed women hate their natural hair). However, from the 22 yrs of living that's what i've noticed 4 out of 5 times. I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed. BTW, I style hair a lot, so I see a lot of BW getting somewhat frustrated that their natural hair can be time consuming.

 

[msa]

Because it is; okay, well maybe not (I cant assume, like ppl shouldn't assume most relaxed women hate their natural hair). However, from the 22 yrs of living that's what i've noticed 4 out of 5 times. I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed. BTW, I style hair a lot, so I see a lot of BW getting somewhat frustrated that their natural hair can be time consuming.

I think people assume this is the case because many women try to force their hair to do things it can't do naturally.

I rinse my hair everyday and put it in a puff or pin it up. Takes me 5 minutes. It's not hard to do at all.

But, let me try to straighten my hair and it will act a fool. Why? Because it's not naturally supposed to do that. It will be difficult for me to get it straight and difficult for me to keep it straight because it will fight it the whole time.

People will continue to be frustrated with styling their natural hair as long as they keep trying to make it something it isn't.

 

[FunJoy!]

I think people assume this is the case because many women try to force their hair to do things it can't do naturally.

I rinse my hair everyday and put it in a puff or pin it up. Takes me 5 minutes. It's not hard to do at all.

But, let me try to straighten my hair and it will act a fool. Why? Because it's not naturally supposed to do that. It will be difficult for me to get it straight and difficult for me to keep it straight because it will fight it the whole time.

People will continue to be frustrated with styling their natural hair as long as they keep trying to make it something it isn't.

Very true and the same goes for views about relaxed.

 

[SoforReal]

As far as I'm concerned until he puts some natural hair chicks up in his videos he is just talking out the side of his neck!


If he felt so strongly about he should reflect it in his videos. erplexed

 

[msa]

Very true and the same goes for views about relaxed.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying...

"People will continue to be frustrated with views about relaxed hair as long as they keep trying to make it something it isn't".

Interesting.

Considering some things you've said about hair texture, I'd say my views are pretty justified in some respects. And I'm definitely not frustrated about other people's views/opinions, etc. Mystified, appalled, surprised? Yes. Frustrated? No.

And I'm sure you feel justified in having your views as well, as you should, because they're yours. They don't have any less merit than anyone else's.

 

[BostonMaria]

We should change the thread title to "Black women says David Banner should STFU"

 

[Amerie123]

I think people assume this is the case because many women try to force their hair to do things it can't do naturally.

I rinse my hair everyday and put it in a puff or pin it up. Takes me 5 minutes. It's not hard to do at all.

But, let me try to straighten my hair and it will act a fool. Why? Because it's not naturally supposed to do that. It will be difficult for me to get it straight and difficult for me to keep it straight because it will fight it the whole time.

People will continue to be frustrated with styling their natural hair as long as they keep trying to make it something it isn't.

Very, very true, I cant lie, however, that goes back to styling options as I've mentioned before. Now what about the simple things like combing it to achieve a certain style?? Even that can be more time consuming.

So, would it be safe to say that when a natural straightens their hair, that means that they hate their natural hair?? I'm sure that's not the case, but that's all relaxed people are doing but without some of the hassle, and yes, with the bad chemicals.

 

[kblc06]

Because it is; okay, well maybe not (I cant assume, like ppl shouldn't assume most relaxed women hate their natural hair). However, from the 22 yrs of living that's what i've noticed 4 out of 5 times. I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed. BTW, I style hair a lot, so I see a lot of BW getting somewhat frustrated that their natural hair can be time consuming.

Honestly, doing, the same styles, I spend about as much time on my hair as I did when I was relaxed (maybe a little more because I found hair boards). I think that you're missing the perspective of what it means to style natural and relaxed hair in terms daily styling vs. long-term styling. Most naturals may twist or braid their hair as their primary style. While this may take a considerable amount of time in one setting (~5-6 hours), the style may last 2-3 weeks vs. someone who is relaxed but spends 20-30 minutes on their hair a day. This would actually amount to less styling time for naturals. Similarly, if both natural and relaxed women are wash n going daily or rollersetting weekly, the styling time is still equivalent. The only thing that tends to frustrate me about my hair is split ends and I think I've stumbled on as to why this happens. I don't consistently force my hair against its will (i.e. straightening), but I take the necessary precautions when I want to switch things up and this happens very irregularly. Stretching my hair via rollersets is not too much of a deviation for my hair's natural tendency, so it thrives-the same thing could be said for twists, braidouts, etc. Most natural hair does not thrive when consistently manipulated or combed, particularly when dry....there is a simple solution: Don't do it, find ways to work around it and you will be less like to go insane, lol.

It is a learning process and since most adult black women have never encountered their natural hair, it will seem very foreign (which is quite sad to me honestly). If you say that you're relaxed hair is a preference, how would you know that if you never experienced working with your natural texture. You can NOT go off new-growth alone, your hair will behave totally different when completely natural. It is one thing if you've actually experienced working with your natural texture and decided relaxed hair was easier, but don't claim to speak on something that you really have no clue about.

It will take much more effort to retain a style that goes against your hair's natural tendency. If more women would with instead of against their hair, many of these frustration issues could be resolved.

 

[msa]

Very, very true, I cant lie, however, that goes back to styling options as I've mentioned before. Now what about the simple things like combing it to achieve a certain style?? Even that can be more time consuming.

See that's the thing, I'm a strong believer that natural hair styles itself for the most part. If you leave it to dry without intervention, it will form a pretty good looking shrunken fro, though it might be a bit lopsided depending on the length of your hair.

The idea that highly textured hair even requires combing is backwards, as combs are meant to glide through straight (or mostly straight) hair. There's no way a comb can glide through my hair, and why should I force it to? More times than not, the comb gets stuck and I have to force it through. I realized that I don't need to keep trying to find things to provide "slip" when my hair doesn't need to be detangled/combed in the first place, especially since it scrunches right back together. Once I let go of that idea things got a lot easier for me. The styles I do on a daily basis don't require a comb at all.

It really just depends on your perspective. Mine is that my hair was perfectly created and doesn't need much intervention from me. I feel like with water and my fingers I have all the tools I need. Everything else is just extra.

So, would it be safe to say that when a natural straightens their hair, that means that they hate their natural hair?? I'm sure that's not the case, but that's all relaxed people are doing but without some of the hassle, and yes, with the bad chemicals.

I think hate is entirely too strong a word to use when talking about relaxed and straightened naturals. I also don't think it automatically equates to low self-esteem, self-respect, or self-love.

Straightening, whether chemically or thermally, is a means to achieve a desired result. I believe many of the reasons people straighten stem from social conditioning that highly textured hair is ugly, unmanageable, and undesirable. I have yet to meet people who straighten only because it's another styling option, there's always another reason usually regarding manageability.

Wanting manageable hair doesn't mean someone hates themselves. But in my experience they're only seeing manageability through the lens of a European standard of beauty. That's my main issue.

 

[yuriko]

Well the way I see it, people who are not white don't really concern themselves with what white people do. Also I never claimed that there was anything to be gained, postive or negative, from people pointing out that black women should not relax their hair. People express all kinds of opinions that don't amount to much of anything. But if there are black women out there who talk about their natural hair in a negative light, then off course some people are going to pick up on that and assume that all black women relax their hair because they hate it. I'm just saying that people who express their contempt for natural hair are also to blame for why people like David Banner exist. Also perhaps people don't question white women who get tans because, unlike those black girls I mentioned, they're not sitting on crowded buses talking about how they won't date someone because his skin is pale and nasty.

Actually in correction, I have heard many white people make fun of someone for being pale and pasty. The pale and pasty kid in school sure has a hard time with all the teasing, and my white friends will not date men who are too pasty as they find it unattractive. If you get on the right bus, you will hear someone making fun of the pasty kid. And don't get me started about how people where I lived felt about Red hair (I mean carrot red natural color not the type you get from a dye job). Every Asian (Chinese, vietnamese) girl complains or how lifeless and flat her, every chic with curly hair complains about how frizzy and crazy it can get. Beautiful women complain about how crooked their noses are. No one is content with physical attributes. Why would anyone expect a woman to be content just because she is black?

ETA: My point was that it is not a political issue or issue of self esteem if a white woman changes a feature of hers; I don't see why it should be for black women; it reaffirms the fact that black women are judged more harshly. Maybe its because I grew up in Nigeria and over there a woman braids, relaxed hair or afro puff is never a big issue.

 

[Amerie123]

Honestly, doing, the same styles, I spend about as much time on my hair as I did when I was relaxed (maybe a little more because I found hair boards). I think that you're missing the perspective of what it means to style natural and relaxed hair in terms daily styling vs. long-term styling. Most naturals may twist or braid their hair as their primary style. While this may take a considerable amount of time in one setting (~5-6 hours), the style may last 2-3 weeks vs. someone who is relaxed but spends 20-30 minutes on their hair a day. This would actually amount to less styling time for naturals. Similarly, if both natural and relaxed women are wash n going daily or rollersetting weekly, the styling time is still equivalent.

For all the naturals that used to be relaxed, I just have a few questions... (BTW, I do plan on going natural a few years down the line if Lord is willing for me to see a few years, just not now), but anyways my questions for the naturals that were once relaxed, and then I'm done....
-if you weren't on LHCF, or any other hair board, would you have gone natural?
-what made you decide to go natural?
-hasn't hair boards helped a great deal?
-Do you sometimes straighten your hair?
Now, I don't really expect all these to be answered literally (and if you want, then by-all means share), but it's just something to think about.

Bottom line is this, YES, the sad truth is that a lot of BW don't like their natural hair. I know because I know of some personally . This is what the media and the past have created. Me and DH talks about this all the time, among a lot of other things. As a matter of fact, MSA's siggy is the truth.
Of course we also know that all relaxed don't hate our natural hair, and that we just like the convenience and styling options of being relaxed. My whole thing is if they hate their hair, then so be it, they have the option to adjust it. If they don't like their hair, that's them, and they have a right not to like it. Don't mean they don't like being black neither. And maybe they do. Then, those are the ones with issues. And that's just what it all boils down to in a nutshell.
ETA: sorry to write so much. Just trying to touch a few different things.

 

[msa]

If you say that you're relaxed hair is a preference, how would you know that if you never experienced working with your natural texture. You can NOT go off new-growth alone, your hair will behave totally different when completely natural. It is one thing if you've actually experienced working with your natural texture and decided relaxed hair was easier, but don't claim to speak on something that you really have no clue about.

This is my biggest pet peeve.

 

[msa]

I have never been relaxed so I can't answer your other questions. I was a pressed natural for years though. I stopped because I decided that it was ridiculous for me to go through all that trouble since straight hair didn't even suit me. Once I started wearing my hair naturally, I felt more comfortable with myself.

My whole thing is if they hate their hair, then so be it, they have the option to adjust it. If they don't like their hair, that's them, and they have a right not to like it.

I agree with this statement. My problem is that they don't keep it a personal issue. Instead it's projected onto others through comments and insults.

So many young children are taught to hate their hair because of the comments they hear around them growing up. And then they see the women in their families (and elsewhere) treating nappy hair as if it is a curse. It's been repeated generation after generation.

I just want a love for natural hair and understanding about how to work with it to be instilled from the beginning. But that's not the way it is and that bothers me. Hearing a child tease another because they have "nappy" hair is sad. Having grown women insult me to my face about the "nappy mess" on my head is sad.

 

[kblc06]

For all the naturals that used to be relaxed, I just have a few questions... (BTW, I do plan on going natural a few years down the line if Lord is willing for me to see a few years, just not now), but anyways my questions for the naturals that were once relaxed, and then I'm done....
-if you weren't on LHCF, or any other hair board, would you have gone natural? My relaxed hair was actually quite healthy and about BSL. I only search out hair boards because I wanted help with my transition so that my hair wouldn't break off
-what made you decide to go natural? Honestly, I no longer felt it was needed. I would stretch my relaxers from 9 months to a year and it was never any less manageable. It may sounds strange, but I when I imagined myself in the future, I never had straight hair. I would often do textured styles which looked very much like natural blown out hair. I always imagined myself with this massive Leela James/Amel Larrieux type hair and that's pretty much what I have. My natural just suits me...just the way I always imagined it would
-hasn't hair boards helped a great deal? It helped with the mental transition to make the final cut (particulary Nappturality which was the first hair board I joined in addition to BHM). Since I had been used to stretching my for so long, I was familar with my natural texture
-Do you sometimes straighten your hair? When the mood suits me. Sometimes I could go months and a few times its been once a month. But I prefer the body that I have with rollersets. My flat-ironed hair is very flat
Now, I don't really expect all these to be answered literally (and if you want, then by-all means share), but it's just something to think about.

Bottom line is this, YES, the sad truth is that a lot of BW don't like their natural hair. I know because I know of some personally . This is what the media and the past have created. Me and DH talks about this all the time, among a lot of other things. As a matter of fact, MSA's siggy is the truth.
Of course we also know that all relaxed don't hate our natural hair, and that we just like the convenience and styling options of being natural. My whole thing is if they hate their hair, then so be it, they have the option to adjust it. If they don't like their hair, that's them, and they have a right not to like it. Don't mean they don't like being black neither. And maybe they do. Then, those are the ones with issues. And that's just what it all boils down to in a nutshell.
ETA: sorry to write so much. Just trying to touch a few different things.

My answers are in black. I don't think those who relax their hair hate themselves, but people do not question where this "innate" styling preference stems from. I did not fully realize the extent to which we as a people have been bombarded by European beauty ideals until I began to wear my hair in its natural state. The things people say in regards to their hair leaves me speechless at times. It speaks volumes when 70-80% of black women have their hair altered through such drastic means (I mean calcium and sodium hydroxide...that **** has a pH of 14 and is one of the most powerful basic compounds there is). And the vast majority have had this put on their scalps since they were at least 8 years old, many times even younger. This is why comparisons stating "well, white women alter their hair but no one says anything " falls on deaf ears with me . They are not the ones who have to conform so drastically to mainstream ideation (they ARE the mainstream), they do not utilize such harsh chemicals on their children's scalps, they do not have the same history as we do when it comes self-deprication, and most have at least seen their natural hair textures and do not have 70-80% of their female population altering their natural texuture (the same can not be said for hair color)

 

[shtow]

and we care about what he thinks because....

 

[LunadeMiel]

For all the naturals that used to be relaxed, I just have a few questions... (BTW, I do plan on going natural a few years down the line if Lord is willing for me to see a few years, just not now), but anyways my questions for the naturals that were once relaxed, and then I'm done....
-if you weren't on LHCF, or any other hair board, would you have gone natural?
Yes
-what made you decide to go natural?
I never liked my relaxed. I think my natural hair looks better than my relaxed hair. Natural hair gives me more styling options.
-hasn't hair boards helped a great deal?
I guess....
-Do you sometimes straighten your hair?
I've straightened twice since I've been natural. Both times I washed it out after 2 days...
Now, I don't really expect all these to be answered literally (and if you want, then by-all means share), but it's just something to think about.

Bottom line is this, YES, the sad truth is that a lot of BW don't like their natural hair. I know because I know of some personally . This is what the media and the past have created. Me and DH talks about this all the time, among a lot of other things. As a matter of fact, MSA's siggy is the truth.
Of course we also know that all relaxed don't hate our natural hair, and that we just like the convenience and styling options of being natural. My whole thing is if they hate their hair, then so be it, they have the option to adjust it. If they don't like their hair, that's them, and they have a right not to like it. Don't mean they don't like being black neither. And maybe they do. Then, those are the ones with issues. And that's just what it all boils down to in a nutshell.
ETA: sorry to write so much. Just trying to touch a few different things.

aswers in black...

 

[JessCNU]

Seems to me like people are taking there personal experiences and projecting them onto the board. Its tough being natural when people make nasty and negative comments but all women who relax arent like that and aren't rude like that. I'm a teacher and I overheard two male students making fun of another male student saying that his hair was "nappy" and needed to be cut. he had a very nice fro. Well i marched my relaxed haired self over to them and had a talk with them outside after class. Minds need to change in our society all the way around but like I said before, all relaxed(or most) relaxed people aren't walking around calling folks nappy heads.

 

[Denise11]

Who cares what the man thinks? Why is this thread still going on???

 

[msa]

Seems to me like people are taking there personal experiences and projecting them onto the board.

This board is a reflection of all of us. I never said every relaxed person does/feels/thinks X. Society, and black people in particular, deem natural highly textured kinky coily hair as "bad" and everything else (straight, curly, wavy) as "good". That's just the truth. It doesn't matter what my personal experience is.

Personally, I'm not attacking anyone and I don't see it as an individual issue. IMO, it's a community issue that on the surface is about hair, and right underneath is about so many other things.

Everyone doesn't see it that way, which is fine.

 

[yuriko]

This board is a reflection of all of us. I never said every relaxed person does/feels/thinks X. Society, and black people in particular, deem natural highly textured kinky coily hair as "bad" and everything else (straight, curly, wavy) as "good". That's just the truth. It doesn't matter what my personal experience is.

Personally, I'm not attacking anyone and I don't see it as an individual issue. IMO, it's a community issue that on the surface is about hair, and right underneath is about so many other things.

Everyone doesn't see it that way, which is fine.

I don't know how true that is. I have many friends who wear their hair natural, they are still able to look beautiful, they don't have a hard time finding a man or a job. I don't think most people think of coily hair as bad; that was a common feeling a long time ago. I usually stretch 4-6 months, and my hair is only texlaxed, when I go swimming and my hair looks like a lions mane, white people always comment on how "cool" it looks; black chics always comment on how full it is. I have only had one black girl make fun of my "big crazy" hair in the past 5 years(that girl is crazy, she made too many negative comments about my hair, and we aint friends no more).

I have come to realize that most people like my hair in its natural state a lot more than I do.

 

[JessCNU]

This board is a reflection of all of us. I never said every relaxed person does/feels/thinks X. Society, and black people in particular, deem natural highly textured kinky coily hair as "bad" and everything else (straight, curly, wavy) as "good". That's just the truth. It doesn't matter what my personal experience is.

Personally, I'm not attacking anyone and I don't see it as an individual issue. IMO, it's a community issue that on the surface is about hair, and right underneath is about so many other things.

Everyone doesn't see it that way, which is fine.

Its cool and obvious we won't agree on the topic at hand...(don't even know if I remember what it was LOL) your happy with your natural and and I'm happy with my relaxer and that's all that really matters

 

[Soul♥Flower]

It's his opinion, and what he says isn't really that important to me. I came to terms with the beauty of my natural hair the first time I went natural....so I'm kind of over the "permed hair = self hate" debate.

but....I will say that, what he said is better than "Black women need to keep their nappy sh*t permed"...then he would definitely be demoted to a mosquito in my eyes, I mean WAY down on my "people who matter list"...right above Angel Lola Luv and the rapper who made a comment about women with dark butts (whatever his name is).

And the only reason why I used the above example is b/c yall KNOW some black men out there say these types of things about natural hair.