Is type 4b hair uncommon?

[anon123]

Hair only comes in varying degrees of waves, curls and coils or straight.

Do you think it might be the case that these aren't even separate categories but blend into each other? I mean, what is the real difference between and curl and coil? Maybe a curl and a wave I can see. Do waves make a 360? Maybe not, but both curls and coils do, right? I mean, if the difference between curl and coil is something other than size, meaning it varies on some other parameter, might we also expect to find big coils and tiny curls? But when people contrast "curl" and "coil", they generally think of tiny coils and bigger curls.

 

[Neith]

Do you think it might be the case that these aren't even separate categories but blend into each other? I mean, what is the real difference between and curl and coil? Maybe a curl and a wave I can see. Do waves make a 360? Maybe not, but both curls and coils do, right? I mean, if the difference between curl and coil is something other than size, meaning it varies on some other parameter, might we also expect to find big coils and tiny curls? But when people contrast "curl" and "coil", they generally think of tiny coils and bigger curls.

This is how I look at it:

Curl - O shaped, from pencil size to sidewalk chalk sized (or however big 3a curls are)
Wave - S shaped, elongated curl. Basically a very loose curl.
Coil - Small to tiny curl.
Kink - A spot in the hair where it sharply turns a random, new direction. Kinks can disrupt the ability of hair to form a perfect curl or coil on it's own.

Coils have way more kinks than curls and waves.

My point is that hair follows rounded, curvy shapes if it's not straight. No zigzags in the traditional sense of the word.

Type 4 to me means coils (very small curls), with varying degrees of "kinkiness".

ETA: It's interesting that waves and curls are called "s" shaped and type 4 hair is called "z" shaped when it is stretched out.

 

[Nonie]

Do you think it might be the case that these aren't even separate categories but blend into each other? I mean, what is the real difference between and curl and coil? Maybe a curl and a wave I can see. Do waves make a 360? Maybe not, but both curls and coils do, right? I mean, if the difference between curl and coil is something other than size, meaning it varies on some other parameter, might we also expect to find big coils and tiny curls? But when people contrast "curl" and "coil", they generally think of tiny coils and bigger curls.

My understanding is that curls = coils, but on hair forums because tight curls don't show up unless one is very close, calling such hair "curly" seems odd hence the term "coily".

So when someone says his or her hair is coily on the forum, I never think large curls like 3's coz I've caught on, even though that hair does form a coil shape. But if they ended up showing me big curls, I'd stand corrected in my thinking and not think they were lying coz after all doesn't a coil look like a spiral which looks like curly hair?

However, if someone says his or her hair is curly, I honestly think of all curls, including the really tiny ones as seen in my hair, until I see the pic and then I get an idea of the size. It's not a matter of trying to be cute calling my hair "curly". It's what it is. When I magnified my coils, folks were telling me they liked the curls. And when I wear my hair out in a puff, non-hair forum members (usually non-black folks) always say they love the cute teeny curls in my hair when they get up close to see my "new" do--coz I'm usually in braids/twist otherwise. So a curl is anything that forms a shape like a coil or spring.

Another misunderstanding I have noticed is in the meaning of the word kink. Kink can mean an unwanted bend in something that is usually straight or a tight curl .

Quick definitions (kink)
▸ noun: a sharp bend in a line produced when a line having a loop is pulled tight
▸ verb: form a curl, curve, or kink
▸ verb: curl tightly

​

I think where the word loses people is that the idea of frizzy comes to mind when they hear the word kinky. (BTW, as much as people hate the word nappy, it means the very same thing as kinky and is a description of tight curls, not a word that means frizzy or unkempt. But I respect the pain it may carry for some and I don't expect everyone to be OK with it.)

 

[AvaSpeaks]

I don't think they're uncommon, just not common on hairboards. Why?
-4b's are most likely to be relaxed so you don't necessarily see them
-in the real world their hair is considered the worst so I think if they are brainwashed by the community then they believe the bad stuff about their hair and aren't likely to be looking for haircare tips in the first place and are more worried about straightening it, styling it, or keeping it hidden.
-hairboards like lhcf are the least supportive of that hair type (despite the lipservice to the contrary) so they are more likely to be on np or just lurk instead of participating.

Just my opinion. I think they are quite common, just marginalized.

Exactly! That's one of the reasons why I don't type my hair anymore. I don't think the typing system fits. I know it doesn't fit mine.

The truth is, most AA women have the type of hair that back in the day people called "nappy". Period. If we didn't then relaxers wouldn't be the number hair care product for AA in this country and parts of Europe.

Regardless of what we are saying here on LHCF, Nap, and any other major board, the majority of sisters DO NOT have the looser curl-haired that people are saying is 3c or 4a.

I mean if I was to type my hair, I would say it's 1a/2a/3c/4a. Now really, now what sense does that make

 

[Kurlee]

See the first pic to me is definitely curly and S shaped to me (4a). The second, not so much. I see no similarities in the nature of these heads except for the brown skin on the people it's growing from. With that said. Lawd...... I have a hair typing headache. Everyone is gonna see it, how they see it. I understand what you guys are getting at, but I just never thought the hair typing thing was ever complicated or hard to figure out. It's far from perfect and needs improvements, but I have yet to see a head that I couldn't judge what the hair type was, upon a first glance. With that said, I am waving the white flag!!!!!

 

[Kurlee]

Just wanted to say you have nice nails!

 

[wavezncurlz]

@hair typing headache. Exactly!

 

[BrownSkinQT]

4b is common but a lot of folks don't like to admit that they have 4b. So they will search every inch of there head until they find a strand that isn't 4b, so they can claim that type.

I love my nappy hair but some just are not in love with theirs.

Also take into consideration texturizers and other things that can temporarily change a hair type. So there are more, but some chose to hide and claim other things.

All of this is MHO

How fruggin funny!

 

[that_1_grrrl]

Okay, out of everything in this thread, this makes the most sense to me. In fact, when I think of my own hair, it behaves in a wide range of ways depending on length, product, manipulation, and its mood that day.

Even looking at the pictures in this thread, I saw 4a hair that looked like mine. I saw 4a hair that looked nothing like mine. I saw 4b hair that looked like mine. I saw 4b hair that looked nothing like mine. It didn't even matter what the state of the hair was. I saw wet 4a hair that looked like my hair dry.

So, in the end, I am going to stick with type 4 hair. It's somewhere in there. Maybe, my hair is just a chameleon.

The thing is, it's not that I think there is less variety in type 4. I think it has the most variety. The problem with the amount of variety is it makes it more difficult to categorize subtypes.

I really think type 4 on a basic level is coily (ranging from larger to tiny) and it's "kinky" (though I don't like that term..."nappy" is more what I mean). Outside of that, there's too much on even one person's head for me to care about categorizing it. Especially since you basically have to treat a "4a" and a "4b" the same way in order for them to thrive.

 

[GodivaChocolate]

See the first pic to me is definitely curly and S shaped to me (4a). The second, not so much. I see no similarities in the nature of these heads except for the brown skin on the people it's growing from. With that said. Lawd...... I have a hair typing headache. Everyone is gonna see it, how they see it. I understand what you guys are getting at, but I just never thought the hair typing thing was ever complicated or hard to figure out. It's far from perfect and needs improvements, but I have yet to see a head that I couldn't judge what the hair type was, upon a fifile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MONICA%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-8.pngrst glance. With that said, I am waving the white flag!!!!!

I've been trying to figure out my hair type and the 1st pic is eactly how my natural hair looks, except the back is even looser.....thxs

 

[Celestial]

Yes coarseness is the thickness of the strand. I think OP got confused coz she was told her hair was kinkier that Priss Pot's (I think) and so if PP is 4A then she assumed she was too. It isn't. "Kinky" means tightly curled and OP's curls are not tight (like a compressed spring) but are rather loose.

I am not sure but I also think type 3 hair tends to stretch when wet with water and shrink up as it dries. (OK so does 4). But lets assume both types had pressed hair void of product. If you wet them, 4 will shrink big time stick up in a puff that looks like an afro maybe clumping (A) or not (B).

3 on the other hand will get wavy and of course so be shorter than when it was straight due to the waves but it will be stretched out by the water and hanging probably flat instead of being poofy and then puff up as it dries.

I'm trying to post the pics but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

 

[andromeda]

I'm trying to post the pics but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

The pics are upside down (and the middle is sort of blurry) but your hair looks very healthy!

 

[Celestial]

The pics are upside down (and the middle is sort of blurry) but your hair looks very healthy!

That was my very first time snapping pictures of my hair and posting it. The next time I'll make sure I have someone else take the photos for me. I wanted to post how my hair looks after I wash it because I have lots of shrinkage.

 

[vainღ♥♡jane]

in its natural state, yes it is. a lot of 4b'ers have probably been relaxed since they popped out of the womb. i've only seen them on the hair boards.​

 

[scotchbonnet]

4b hair - VERY COMMON.

 

[lisabrown070109]

Well, im a 4b and right now its in the in between stages and Im feeling rather furstrated. my hair is just not right. Maybe its because its in between growth. I was using Kccc and for some reason, i get better results with ecostyler gel. I co wash daily. I still use the kinky curly knot today which works great for my hair. I think im probably upset at the fact that i really can't do anything with it except wear it in a twa until further notice (lol)

 

[Shay72]

I'm only on page 1 and I am really confused...okay let me get back to reading.

 

[CenteredGirl]

I don't buy into hair type anymore. I buy in to finding products/regimen that make my hair easier to manage. My hair has changed 180 degrees because of what I've learned from my sisters. I considered my hair to be a tight coily impossible to handle when I first started on my journey. Now that pattern is somewhat there, but I think it has improved so that it's not breaking off like it did before.

I dunno. It's a mystery.

 

[Shay72]

After reading I think about 80-85% of this thread I am still really confused . It really doesn't matter because I love what is growing out of my head and I will love it even more when I cut off these relaxed ends.

 

[MyAngelEyez~C~U]

I consider myself 4b. or at minimum 4a/b mixed. I was natural until I was 18, so unlike a lot of folks, I remember my natural texture. The thing is, my mother always kept my hair straightened. She'd wash my hair, then press it straight with Utrasheen cream press or crisco. The only time I saw my hair natural/"nappy" was on wash day. My hair texture is pretty close to my mom's.

 

[ChristmasCarol]

OMG! Angeleyes, you were SOOO cute!!!

Are we related? You look like half the women in my family. You know, my grandaddy was a "rolling stone"

Has your hair darkened as you've aged? My hair used to be a little darker than what is shown in your pics - but very sandy. Now, it's just medium brown with red undertones. I HATED my haircolor growing up, but I noticed alot of women purposely bleach their hair to get this color now.

I'm bout' to go to my mother's house and when I get there I'm gonna look at some of my 1970's school pictures. Thanks for bringing back the memories!

 

[Imani]

I think its very common in real life. i'm pretty sure my hair is 4b. very tight, no defined coils. mostly random bends with some teeny tiny coils here and there (and then those coils bend and shrink up on each other in a random pattern if that makes sense. meaning u wouldn't know the coils was there unless u stretched it out. And as soon as u comb it, it kinda goes away. someone mentioned upthread that 4bers may THINK they have no coils at all bc most never let their hair dry without combing/manipulating it).

However, since I've been on this board it seems like I don't see that many 4b heads similar to mine.

 

[MyAngelEyez~C~U]

OMG! Angeleyes, you were SOOO cute!!!

Are we related? You look like half the women in my family. You know, my grandaddy was a "rolling stone"

Has your hair darkened as you've aged? My hair used to be a little darker than what is shown in your pics - but very sandy. Now, it's just medium brown with red undertones. I HATED my haircolor growing up, but I noticed alot of women purposely bleach their hair to get this color now.

I'm bout' to go to my mother's house and when I get there I'm gonna look at some of my 1970's school pictures. Thanks for bringing back the memories!

Thank you! Um yeah, my hair darkened to ash blonde. I dye it red now. We could be related, my grand daddy is still making babies, . Is your family from Louisiana/Texas?

 

[angelbaby]

Now, I disagree 100% with the theory that 4B hair has not got a pattern or is made of zigzags. I have 4B hair. Not 4A/B or 4A, but 4B hair. My whole family has 4B hair. I also disagree with the theory that 4A hair has the smallest coil, coz my coils are as tiny as they come and I am not 4A coz those curls are bigger. My hair cannot do things 4A hair can like WNG. :

You can disagree, but you are absolutely WRONG!!!!! My hair grows out like this. If my hair is not manipulated it grows out like this. There is no curl pattern to my hair which I can see in my edges and I could tell when I was younger. My hair has always been this sort of odd poofy, kind of straight, coarse hair. It doesn't coil PERIOD! It has no definable wave pattern. It kinks where it wants to and it's straight, then it kinks some more.

When I saw Andre's curl pattern definition I was thrilled to find out that this was not some oddity and that other people had hair like this too.

 

[ChristmasCarol]

Thank you! Um yeah, my hair darkened to ash blonde. I dye it red now. We could be related, my grand daddy is still making babies, . Is your family from Louisiana/Texas?

Naw, nobody from LA or TX. My mother's family moved to Ohio about 100 years ago from Pike Road (Montgomery County) Alabama and my father's family is Ethiopian by way of Jamaica about 120 years ago. But you know some people think we're ALL related to each other. I have a VERY common last name, and I get certain people asking me if I'm related this person and that person (all African-American, of course) from here and there just cuz of the last name. I'd like to say something smart to them, but usually I'll just make up a name using their last name and ask if they're related to such and such from Kansas. They always look at me like I'm crazy.

 

[Celestial]

Well, im a 4b and right now its in the in between stages and Im feeling rather furstrated. my hair is just not right. Maybe its because its in between growth. I was using Kccc and for some reason, i get better results with ecostyler gel. I co wash daily. I still use the kinky curly knot today which works great for my hair. I think im probably upset at the fact that i really can't do anything with it except wear it in a twa until further notice (lol)

Don't get frustrated and don't worry about texture. Find a product(s) and a regimen that works for you and stick to it. It is not easy for a lot of us and some of us didn't find what work until 3 years after our initial BC. If your hair is in a TWA you can go to the salon and have it comb-twisted. That is what I did when I had a twa and when it loosen after a week and a half, I would pick the twist out with the tip of the rat tail comb. It look so good and I got lots of compliments. I got compliments when it was comb-twisted and when the comb twists were picked.

 

[Nonie]

You can disagree, but you are absolutely WRONG!!!!! My hair grows out like this. If my hair is not manipulated it grows out like this. There is no curl pattern to my hair which I can see in my edges and I could tell when I was younger. My hair has always been this sort of odd poofy, kind of straight, coarse hair. It doesn't coil PERIOD! It has no definable wave pattern. It kinks where it wants to and it's straight, then it kinks some more.

When I saw Andre's curl pattern definition I was thrilled to find out that this was not some oddity and that other people had hair like this too.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Qualitee]

 

[Swanky]

Don't know for sure.

 

[Jhuidah]

Could it be that people's definitions of 4b are different? I know I used to define myself as 4a (with a sprinkling of 3c throughout), but then again my hair looks a lot like some folks who define themselves as 4b (hi Nonie!).

So...I don't know. The whole hair type thing is so divisive sometimes.