No such thing as protein overload?

[Muse]

I posted this in another thread but didn't get many replies:


Hey ladies I was reading Cathy Howse's website and she says that there is no such thing as protein overload. If we experience brittle breaking hair it's because our moisturizers need to be reexamined. I first heard Artemis mention this in another thread and it makes since to me. CH said a lot of people end up with dry hair after a protein treatment because they DC after with a cond. with protein in it or their leave in will have protein causing dryness or their DC/leave in may not have protein but it's just not sufficient enough for after protein treatments. Sometimes a moisturizer will work for us normally but after we do a protein treatment it may not work and perhaps we just need something heavier to use after protein treatments.

She did plug her moisturizing cream lotion and said she developed it with protein treatments in mind as well because you need something that delivers top moisturization after a treatment. Any thoughts on this idea that there is no such thing as protein overload?

 

[Your Cheeziness]

It's not a popular opinion, but I can agree with it. I've said this from the beginning and will stand by it. I think protein has a bad reputation and alot of us automatically default to think "protein overload".

Dry hair doesn't mean protein overload, it means you need to up your moisture. There's a difference. Breaking hair doesn't automatically mean protein overload, it can mean too much manipulation, weak damaged fraile hair that NEEDS a protein treatment.

I like to think hair as a Jenga stack. Ya'll remember that game. Each time we relax or abuse direct heat, we take away important blocks out of the Jenga stack and eventually that mug will crumble (read: breakage). It must be rebuilt with protein.

There is a thread asking us to list the product that turned our hair around. Most, if not all of the replies I saw reference a protein product of some type. As the hair becomes healthier, we may not need it as often, but occasionally we, as relaxed heads, need it. I can't speak for naturals.

What we must educate ourselves on is the different types of proteins and their role for our hair. Some proteins attract moisture and give shine, others deeply penetrate and rebuild. It's important to remember that whenever we use them, our moisture products, must compensate for them and we'll be fine.

*slowly backs out of the room and waits for eruption of disagreement*

 

[Muse]

It's not a popular opinion, but I can agree with it. I've said this from the beginning and will stand by it. I think protein has a bad reputation and alot of us automatically default to think "protein overload".

Dry hair doesn't mean protein overload, it means you need to up your moisture. There's a difference. Breaking hair doesn't automatically mean protein overload, it can mean too much manipulation, weak damaged fraile hair that NEEDS a protein treatment.

I like to think hair as a Jenga stack. Ya'll remember that game. Each time we relax or abuse direct heat, we take away important blocks out of the Jenga stack and eventually that mug will crumble (read: breakage). It must be rebuilt with protein.

There is a thread asking us to list the product that turned our hair around. Most, if not all of the replies I saw reference a protein product of some type. As the hair becomes healthier, we may not need it as often, but occasionally we, as relaxed heads, need it. I can't speak for naturals.

What we must educate ourselves on is the different types of proteins and their role for our hair. Some proteins attract moisture and give shine, others deeply penetrate and rebuild. It's important to remember that whenever we use them, our moisture products, must compensate for them and we'll be fine.

*slowly backs out of the room and waits for eruption of disagreement*

Great analogy! I agree our moisture products need to compensate.

 

[supermodelsonya]

I don't know much about this subject but it's very interesting. I do know, however, that my ends this weekend were starting to look like this...

I was thinking I needed more moisture, moisture, moisture, but I did an Aphogee treatment because my inner voice was saying PROTEIN IDIOT!
(my inner voice is rude at times)

The breakage stopped immediately. I think I'm going to up my treatments from once a month to once a week and see how that goes....

PROTEIN IS MY FRIEND...

 

[La Colocha]

I don't know about the no such thing as protein overload, im still learning but i know that my hair cannot tolerate certain proteins such as coconut oil, keratin, wheat or oat proteins. But everything else i can use. It took me a long time and alot of money to figure this out. I can use some protein just not certain ingredients.

 

[Golden75]

this does seem like a good theory. with me, i was not moisturizing the way I should have. most of my products were protein based, because it rebuilds hair and strengthens, which is what I wanted. yes my hair was dry, and brittle, but it grew to the longest I ever had my hair. But I was not moisturized. I didn't have protein overload, I had moisture lackature (I know, its not a word, but sounds good). So the protein did its thing but I never balanced with adding the moisture. hearing about overload had made me pay attention to my moisture. Now that I have a good balance, my hair is more manageable, feels and looks healthier.

 

[ChocalateDiva]

I feel as though the hair will absorb the amount of protien that it needs and the rest will be rinsed away.

 

[Cichelle]

I didn't know some people had become so afraid of protein.

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT

I don't believe much of the stuff I read about products anymore.

Hair care seems to have gotten so complicated. You have to examine your moisturizers and make sure this is balanced with that and which protein is this and which oil is that, etc. It's kind of crazy, IMO. And I suspect...unnecessary.

I got a way from all that and just do what works for my hair. I'm not going to say there is no such thing as protein overload because some people experience it, or at least what they think is protein overload. At one point in my journey I gave up protein completely and my hair improved dramatically. However, a couple of years later, I realize the problem was more likely that I was just using too many and too much product of any kind.

Personally, I've found that my hair needs a lot less maintaining and scientific study than I once thought.

But everyone really has to do what works for them and remember that it won't work for everyone. General statements about hair almost never stand up for all individuals.

Just saying.

Carry on.

 

[IndianAngel22]

I don't know about the no such thing as protein overload, im still learning but i know that my hair cannot tolerate certain proteins such as coconut oil, keratin, wheat or oat proteins. But everything else i can use. It took me a long time and alot of money to figure this out. I can use some protein just not certain ingredients.

What? Coconut Oil is a protein?

 

[Your Cheeziness]

What? Coconut Oil is a protein?

I'd heard it's said to prevent protein loss. This site http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-oils/organic-coconut-oil/health-benefits-of-coconut-oil.html says "It also provides the essential proteins required for nourishing damaged hair." But it is not "A protein" per se.

 

[gymfreak336]

I didn't know some people had become so afraid of protein.

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT

I don't believe much of the stuff I read about products anymore.

Hair care seems to have gotten so complicated. You have to examine your moisturizers and make sure this is balanced with that and which protein is this and which oil is that, etc. It's kind of crazy, IMO. And I suspect...unnecessary.

I got a way from all that and just do what works for my hair. I'm not going to say there is no such thing as protein overload because some people experience it, or at least what they think is protein overload. At one point in my journey I gave up protein completely and my hair improved dramatically. However, a couple of years later, I realize the problem was more likely that I was just using too many and too much product of any kind.

Personally, I've found that my hair needs a lot less maintaining and scientific study than I once thought.

But everyone really has to do what works for them and remember that it won't work for everyone. General statements about hair almost never stand up for all individuals.

Just saying.

Carry on.

ITA. Even though I love knowing all the ins and outs of a product, doing too much is worse as doing too little. There comes a point where you have to just stick to what you like. If you are obsessed with things to the point where you are like "I need 10% silk protein, 20% moisture, 20% keratin etc...." you are doing too much.

 

[Patricia]

good thread! subscribing. I want to know too

 

[prospurr4]

I'm not sure if protein overload exists or not. I just haven't given it much thought. I try to keep this haircare thing as simple as possible.

I'm texlaxed and use a protein reconstructor during my touchup process (4 times a year), after rinsing the relaxer but before neutralizing. The rest of the time, I focus on moisture. I don't have problems with breakage, so I'm good....

 

[Bint Yusef]

I agree. I had given up protein because of this board and suffered set backs. Now I use megatek, coconut oil, and moisturizer full of silk proteins daily and my hair has never felt better. Protein gets a bad rap around here.

 

[gissellr78]

I posted this in another thread but didn't get many replies:


Hey ladies I was reading Cathy Howse's website and she says that there is no such thing as protein overload. If we experience brittle breaking hair it's because our moisturizers need to be reexamined. I first heard Artemis mention this in another thread and it makes since to me. CH said a lot of people end up with dry hair after a protein treatment because they DC after with a cond. with protein in it or their leave in will have protein causing dryness or their DC/leave in may not have protein but it's just not sufficient enough for after protein treatments. Sometimes a moisturizer will work for us normally but after we do a protein treatment it may not work and perhaps we just need something heavier to use after protein treatments.

She did plug her moisturizing cream lotion and said she developed it with protein treatments in mind as well because you need something that delivers top moisturization after a treatment. Any thoughts on this idea that there is no such thing as protein overload?

I agree...I use protein frequently and i make sure i use a balancing moisturizer and then deep condition...and is always soft.

 

[Muse]

I feel as though the hair will absorb the amount of protien that it needs and the rest will be rinsed away.

Good point! So how can one overload if the hair takes what it wants and discards the rest?

I didn't know some people had become so afraid of protein.

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT

I don't believe much of the stuff I read about products anymore.

Hair care seems to have gotten so complicated. You have to examine your moisturizers and make sure this is balanced with that and which protein is this and which oil is that, etc. It's kind of crazy, IMO. And I suspect...unnecessary.

I got a way from all that and just do what works for my hair. I'm not going to say there is no such thing as protein overload because some people experience it, or at least what they think is protein overload. At one point in my journey I gave up protein completely and my hair improved dramatically. However, a couple of years later, I realize the problem was more likely that I was just using too many and too much product of any kind.

Personally, I've found that my hair needs a lot less maintaining and scientific study than I once thought.

But everyone really has to do what works for them and remember that it won't work for everyone. General statements about hair almost never stand up for all individuals.

Just saying.

Carry on.

I see what you're saying. Before I found the boards and paid no attention to my hair it grew quite well. Now I come here and no doubt a lot of info is useful but there's also the thought "should it be this hard?"

My hair has definitely suffered from using too many things and too much of them. I am definitely in the process of simplifying now but protein is proving to work for me so far.

 

[Muse]

I agree. I had given up protein because of this board and suffered set backs. Now I use megatek, coconut oil, and moisturizer full of silk proteins daily and my hair has never felt better. Protein gets a bad rap around here.

I know! I use the Joico kpak line and my daily leave in (Lacio Lacio) has silk proteins and I sometimes seal with coconut oil. I was afraid that I should find a leave in without protein at all because of the dreaded "overload" but it apparently works for us so we have to go against what's popular to achieve our goals and that's fine with me.

 

[Patricia]

Good point! So how can one overload if the hair takes what it wants and discards the rest?



I see what you're saying. Before I found the boards and paid no attention to my hair it grew quite well. Now I come here and no doubt a lot of info is useful but there's also the thought "should it be this hard?"

My hair has definitely suffered from using too many things and too much of them. I am definitely in the process of simplifying now but protein is proving to work for me so far.

I could have wrote the same thing.

 

[Neith]

I believe in protein overload (even though I haven't personally had it)

It's the way the product works. Many protein treatments not only absorb into the hair, but they COAT the hair and stay there like a bandage. The "harder" ones stay in place for weeks despite shampooing.

Why would companies like aphogee warn you not to use the 2 step more than every few weeks? That IS NOT helping them out any. If it was up to them, they would have use more so you can buy more... if it was safe to do so.

 

[hardymem]

I beg to differ, I had it before my hair was snapping when wet just putting a comb through it. I overloaded with moisture for a month before it got back right.

 

[beans4reezy]

It's not a popular opinion, but I can agree with it. I've said this from the beginning and will stand by it. I think protein has a bad reputation and alot of us automatically default to think "protein overload".

Dry hair doesn't mean protein overload, it means you need to up your moisture. There's a difference. Breaking hair doesn't automatically mean protein overload, it can mean too much manipulation, weak damaged fraile hair that NEEDS a protein treatment.

I like to think hair as a Jenga stack. Ya'll remember that game. Each time we relax or abuse direct heat, we take away important blocks out of the Jenga stack and eventually that mug will crumble (read: breakage). It must be rebuilt with protein.

There is a thread asking us to list the product that turned our hair around. Most, if not all of the replies I saw reference a protein product of some type. As the hair becomes healthier, we may not need it as often, but occasionally we, as relaxed heads, need it. I can't speak for naturals.

What we must educate ourselves on is the different types of proteins and their role for our hair. Some proteins attract moisture and give shine, others deeply penetrate and rebuild. It's important to remember that whenever we use them, our moisture products, must compensate for them and we'll be fine.

*slowly backs out of the room and waits for eruption of disagreement*

Please don't back out!! You are such a wealth of information!!!

 

[gymfreak336]

I believe in protein overload (even though I haven't personally had it)

It's the way the product works. Many protein treatments not only absorb into the hair, but they COAT the hair and stay there like a bandage. The "harder" ones stay in place for weeks despite shampooing.

Why would companies like aphogee warn you not to use the 2 step more than every few weeks? That IS NOT helping them out any. If it was up to them, they would have use more so you can buy more... if it was safe to do so.

Conditioners work by coating the hair period. When companies say their product can penetrate, what they are saying is the molecules are small enough to penetrate the holes in the hair strand, filling them up first, before they coat the entire strand. Its like if you punch tiny holes with a straight pin into something and then coat it with a substance that is made up of molecules the size of a quarter...the whole object will be coated but the holes wouldn't be filled because the size is too big. That is why the best protein treatments can also penetrate. It gives a more lasting effect.

 

[Muse]

I believe in protein overload (even though I haven't personally had it)

It's the way the product works. Many protein treatments not only absorb into the hair, but they COAT the hair and stay there like a bandage. The "harder" ones stay in place for weeks despite shampooing.

Why would companies like aphogee warn you not to use the 2 step more than every few weeks? That IS NOT helping them out any. If it was up to them, they would have use more so you can buy more... if it was safe to do so.

I beg to differ, I had it before my hair was snapping when wet just putting a comb through it. I overloaded with moisture for a month before it got back right.

Good point ladies. This is why I posted this more as a question so we could ponder both sides. Neith, you did get me thinking about this when you posed the question-why would companies tell you to use their protein treatment every xx days.

But do all proteins coat the hair? I know that a lot of treatments do but I also heard that some fill in the "missing holes" and the rest is washed away. So if this is true could you experience overload with some protein treatments and not others?

ETA: Ok Gym summed up what I was trying to say perfectly! Now Gym don't you leave us like Artemis did (at least until she comes back then you can take vacation, lol)

 

[onyxdreams]

Iam learning an overload of anything is a bad thing period,whether its vitamins,protien or moisture,flat ironing,brushing and list goes on and on.The learning curve for me is to recognize my hair needs/language

 

[gymfreak336]

I believe in protein overload (even though I haven't personally had it)

It's the way the product works. Many protein treatments not only absorb into the hair, but they COAT the hair and stay there like a bandage. The "harder" ones stay in place for weeks despite shampooing.

Why would companies like aphogee warn you not to use the 2 step more than every few weeks? That IS NOT helping them out any. If it was up to them, they would have use more so you can buy more... if it was safe to do so.

One reason why they say not to use aphogee besides the protein is because of the pH of the product. Going very acidic constricts the cuticle, making it less flexible. The product is very acidic and without proper balancing and again depending on the base line of your hair and how many cuticle layers it has, using it every week might not be a good option. Its part of the general formula. This is also why other treatments that have comparable effects of aphogee can be used more frequently on damaged hair like emergencee and dudleys DRC. You can use those weekly on extremely damaged hair until you don't need it anymore and if your hair is severly damaged or your cuticle layer is just all kinds of messed up, using aphogee every 4 weeks for a couple of months might be a better option for you.

 

[Neith]

Conditioners work by coating the hair period. When companies say their product can penetrate, what they are saying is the molecules are small enough to penetrate the holes in the hair strand, filling them up first, before they coat the entire strand. Its like if you punch tiny holes with a straight pin into something and then coat it with a substance that is made up of molecules the size of a quarter...the whole object will be coated but the holes wouldn't be filled because the size is too big. That is why the best protein treatments can also penetrate. It gives a more lasting effect.

Yeah, they do. However hard protein treatments seem to last longer. I can Deep Condition and need to moisturize in 3 days. I can do one hard protein treatment and not need any protein of any kind in my hair for weeks.

One reason why they say not to use aphogee besides the protein is because of the pH of the product. Going very acidic constricts the cuticle, making it less flexible. The product is very acidic and without proper balancing and again depending on the base line of your hair and how many cuticle layers it has, using it every week might not be a good option. Its part of the general formula. This is also why other treatments that have comparable effects of aphogee can be used more frequently on damaged hair like emergencee and dudleys DRC. You can use those weekly on extremely damaged hair until you don't need it anymore and if your hair is severly damaged or your cuticle layer is just all kinds of messed up, using aphogee every 4 weeks for a couple of months might be a better option for you.

Okay. I used aphogee as an example.

Nexxus wouldn't say it's okay to use emergencce every day. Or every week forever. Dudley's wouldn't recommend using DRC two times a week, every week.

Overconditioning whether it be moisturizing or with protein is bad... imo.

 

[bellydancer]

I think there is such a thing. I am natural and I used the formula for her conditioner twice a week like she said. My hair was soooooooooo dry and crispy no matter how much I moisturized. It didn't have much flexability. It just broke off. I dropped down to using the conditioner once every other week and my hair responded to that MUCH better. I definitely had protein overload.

 

[Muse]

I think there is such a thing. I am natural and I used the formula for her conditioner twice a week like she said. My hair was soooooooooo dry and crispy no matter how much I moisturized. It didn't have much flexability. It just broke off. I dropped down to using the conditioner once every other week and my hair responded to that MUCH better. I definitely had protein overload.

Did your moisturizers have protein in them? Did you ever use her moisturizing creme lotion? I know she claims that as long as you use that lotion or something comparable that doesn't have in protein to moisturize afterward you should be fine. I have never tried it though but I am glad you found a good interval to use your protein treatments

 

[Muse]

Could it be possible though that it's not the actual protein causing breakage when a lot is used but the DRYNESS that comes with it and how do we combat dryness? With a good moisturizer( whether its a con, DC, leave in) but it has to really perform for you. Just pondering and please keep the experiences and opinions coming it is important to see things from all sides.

ETA: I got too long winded just to say this. lol

 

[gymfreak336]

Yeah, they do. However hard protein treatments seem to last longer. I can Deep Condition and need to moisturize in 3 days. I can do one hard protein treatment and not need any protein of any kind in my hair for weeks.




Okay. I used aphogee as an example.

Nexxus wouldn't say it's okay to use emergencce every day. Or every week forever. Dudley's wouldn't recommend using DRC two times a week, every week.

Overconditioning whether it be moisturizing or with protein is bad... imo.

Again, your protein usage is based off of your baseline. Yours could be different than someone else. Some people need a moisture based regime with supplemental protein but a lot of people need a protein based regime with supplemental moisture.


Nexxus and Dudleys both say that you use them until you don't need them anyone. They are treatments and all treatments whether protein or moisture are design to a correct a problem. Once the problem is no longer an issue, you don't need them any more especially not on the same frequency that you used them to correct the initial problem.