I can't imagine.....

[HoneyA]

I don't quite know how to express my thoughts here but I'll try. In the last few weeks, I have been seeing some things in the Christian friends I have, here on this forum and even in myself that I don't like at all. Yesterday again at church, someone said something that I could not fathom. In my mind, I was like how can you say something like that? Just because you are a Christian does not give you the right to say something like that. There are things that are not sitting right with me. I can't seem to articulate them properly but I know something is off. This thread gives me that feeling again.

 

[SND411]

Fellow sisters, let's keep on talking. Let out all your frustrations with Christianity/Christians. Nothing should be fake/cookie-cutter. I feel this is absolutely NECESSARY. Being followers of Christ is also about being REAL and HONEST. Even being HONEST if you have doubts or are concerned. I really want this to be a forum where we can confide in each other, no matter if its considered "not Christlike." Don't worry, if we strive, we can get there.

 

[sidney]

Fellow sisters, let's keep on talking. Let out all your frustrations with Christianity/Christians. Nothing should be fake/cookie-cutter. I feel this is absolutely NECESSARY. Being followers of Christ is also about being REAL and HONEST. Even being HONEST if you have doubts or are concerned. I really want this to be a forum where we can confide in each other, no matter if its considered "not Christlike." Don't worry, if we strive, we can get there.

I think people should spend more time getting to know the character of Christ and developing strong relationships with him. When you KNOW the person of Christ you can clearly DISCERN his will and his word as it pertains to your life. If you are confused about the word, you should be able to go to the father. He says "he who lacks wisdom let him ask for it." He also says "call unto me and I will shew you great and mightly things that you know not of." The word says that the scriptures are spiritually discerned. If you don't like what you brethern have to say, go to the source people!

 

[sidney]

Fellow sisters, let's keep on talking. Let out all your frustrations with Christianity/Christians. Nothing should be fake/cookie-cutter. I feel this is absolutely NECESSARY. Being followers of Christ is also about being REAL and HONEST. Even being HONEST if you have doubts or are concerned. I really want this to be a forum where we can confide in each other, no matter if its considered "not Christlike." Don't worry, if we strive, we can get there.

Just wanted to say that I agree about the need for honesty and doubts. But the bible also says in the presence of many counselors there is wisdom. If you can't be influenced by those around you who are sharing the word in truth, why ask?

 

[Laela]

Let me say this... I received a timely message from my pastor today about the Blood of Jesus and I'll share it:


Guilt is designed to keep us in the Dark. It's designed to keep us from moving in the direction away from the Will of God. That's one of Satan's best-kept secrets when it comes to Sin. He has a way of keeping Guilt smack dab in the middle of a Believer's face. The devil will remind you what you did yesterday, last night, two minutes ago... and to that we must be vigilant and Plead the Blood. The Blood never gets old.

If anyone knows who is born again and know their Covenant with God, they'll know the value of the Blood of Jesus. They'll not 'devalue' it by sinning and acting like a child of the Dark, but a child of the Light. But most important, they won't let the sin of guilt hang around their necks!

THE BLOOD OF JESUS won't keep us 'sin conscious' but 'Righteousness conscious"

Whatever we focus on will expand..

Jesus shed his Blood once but it's continually washing/cleansing us. Don't be fooled! We'll be righteousness conscious but won't be in bondage to sin by guilt.

Hebrews 9:14
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the Living God?"

Reading God's Word is really not enough, we have to Believe it. All the answers we need, to quell confusion, to seek advice, to soothe our heart, is in God's Word. Until we read the Word for ourselves and understand it for ourselves, nothing anyone says will make sense.

You know your Covenant, you'll know you have Blood-Bought Right to Plead the Blood of Jesus - everytime, without guilt, shame or condemnation --because you are a Child of the Most High God. I am a Child of the Most High God and I'm not even trying to hear what that old Ugly, green, mushed-faced one-eyed, crooked-eye, one-leg Devil have to say today.

The Blood of Jesus!
The Blood of Jesus!
The Blood of Jesus!

 

[Poohbear]

I think people should spend more time getting to know the character of Christ and developing strong relationships with him. When you KNOW the person of Christ you can clearly DISCERN his will and his word as it pertains to your life. If you are confused about the word, you should be able to go to the father. He says "he who lacks wisdom let him ask for it." He also says "call unto me and I will shew you great and mightly things that you know not of." The word says that the scriptures are spiritually discerned. If you don't like what you brethern have to say, go to the source people!

sidney, take a look and re-read what you just posted and think about it. Does it really make any sense? I'm tired of the rationalizations and excuses make for people who have valid questions about God and the Bible and Christianity. "Seek wisdom"... "Call on the Lord" ... "Get to know Jesus"... "Go to the Word of God" ..."Satan is the author of confusion".... I know all the lines!!! I'm sick of them! Wake up and open your eyes and realize what you're saying before saying it. I used to say these very same things in order to help a "confused soul". It's easier said than done. Telling people to develop a relationship with Christ, who is not physically present but is supposedly spiritually present, doesn't really help at all. I have read my Bible. I have prayed to God. I have developed this so-called relationship with Jesus who isn't physically present. And I'm just not feeling it anymore! Not for just one particular reason, but for several. It mainly has to do with nothing making sense and reading and hearing so much contradiction, even when I study the Bible for myself. We try to rationalize and make excuses for things that happen. All in the name of Jesus. All because of faith in the unseen. Are we really fearful of not believing in the Bible? fearful of not believing in Jesus or God? So we make up things make us feel better and try to make others feel better? I know I just rambled alot here but if you really think critically and intelligently about everything that the Bible says, you will see what I'm talking about. But you don't even have to do that. Just look at the division among Christianity as a whole. It's ridiculous. We have baptists (even divisions among baptists), presbyterians, methodists, jehovah witness, pentecostal, CME, AME, apostolic, Church of God, and so on.

 

[Poohbear]

Let me say this... I received a timely message from my pastor today about the Blood of Jesus and I'll share it:


Guilt is designed to keep us in the Dark. It's designed to keep us from moving in the direction away from the Will of God. That's one of Satan's best-kept secrets when it comes to Sin. He has a way of keeping Guilt smack dab in the middle of a Believer's face. The devil will remind you what you did yesterday, last night, two minutes ago... and to that we must be vigilant and Plead the Blood. The Blood never gets old.

If anyone knows who is born again and know their Covenant with God, they'll know the value of the Blood of Jesus. They'll not 'devalue' it by sinning and acting like a child of the Dark, but a child of the Light. But most important, they won't let the sin of guilt hang around their necks!

THE BLOOD OF JESUS won't keep us 'sin conscious' but 'Righteousness conscious"

Whatever we focus on will expand..

Jesus shed his Blood once but it's continually washing/cleansing us. Don't be fooled! We'll be righteousness conscious but won't be in bondage to sin by guilt.

Hebrews 9:14
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the Living God?"

Reading God's Word is really not enough, we have to Believe it. All the answers we need, to quell confusion, to seek advice, to soothe our heart, is in God's Word. Until we read the Word for ourselves and understand it for ourselves, nothing anyone says will make sense.

You know your Covenant, you'll know you have Blood-Bought Right to Plead the Blood of Jesus - everytime, without guilt, shame or condemnation --because you are a Child of the Most High God. I am a Child of the Most High God and I'm not even trying to hear what that old Ugly, green, mushed-faced one-eyed, crooked-eye, one-leg Devil have to say today.

The Blood of Jesus!
The Blood of Jesus!
The Blood of Jesus!

Forget what anyone else says... what if you feel like the word of God doesn't make sense?

And what about the blood of Jesus? People throw around phrases all the time not knowing what they really mean.

I have been that strong Christian who would support the Bible up and down. I've been that Christian who had that great understanding of God's word. I had this great faith.

To be honest, nothing makes sense anymore. You can say I need to focus on the blood of Jesus all you want, but that's not gonna help. The blood of Jesus doesn't exist. The blood of Jesus was supposedly shed from his body when he died on the cross.

And how can one be righteousness conscious instead of sin conscious? Especially when we are told that almost everything is a sin? (Please don't answer these questions, they're just rhetorical. I know the Christian answer is JESUS). And then we are told we are righteous for believing in Jesus but we can sin and Jesus forgives us. That just can't be right.

 

[Guitarhero]

Some questions can only be directly answered by God and in private. I encourage private reflection, calm and openness to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Poohbear]

..........................................................

 

[Poohbear]

Some questions can only be directly answered by God and in private. I encourage private reflection, calm and openness to the Holy Spirit.

Well God is not answering my questions nor is he soothing my confusion.

 

[PinkPebbles]

..........

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I think people should spend more time getting to know the character of Christ and developing strong relationships with him. When you KNOW the person of Christ you can clearly DISCERN his will and his word as it pertains to your life. If you are confused about the word, you should be able to go to the father. He says "he who lacks wisdom let him ask for it." He also says "call unto me and I will shew you great and mightly things that you know not of." The word says that the scriptures are spiritually discerned. If you don't like what you brethern have to say, go to the source people!

Sidney, what a great word you have spoken here.

I'm glad you are here in the CF!

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Just wanted to say that I agree about the need for honesty and doubts. But the bible also says in the presence of many counselors there is wisdom. If you can't be influenced by those around you who are sharing the word in truth, why ask?

I appreciate this word!

 

[Laela]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

Forget what anyone else says... what if you feel like the word of God doesn't make sense?

And what about the blood of Jesus? People throw around phrases all the time not knowing what they really mean.

I have been that strong Christian who would support the Bible up and down. I've been that Christian who had that great understanding of God's word. I had this great faith.

To be honest, nothing makes sense anymore. You can say I need to focus on the blood of Jesus all you want, but that's not gonna help. The blood of Jesus doesn't exist. The blood of Jesus was supposedly shed from his body when he died on the cross.

And how can one be righteousness conscious instead of sin conscious? Especially when we are told that almost everything is a sin? (Please don't answer these questions, they're just rhetorical. I know the Christian answer is JESUS). And then we are told we are righteous for believing in Jesus but we can sin and Jesus forgives us. That just can't be right.

 

[discobiscuits]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_xix04dxjI

i like that video. very clear & concice. reminded me of some things.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Praise the Lord, Laela...Praise the Name of the Lord, Jesus!

 

[SND411]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

I KNOW there is God's presence in this post.

 

[SND411]

Sometimes if your mind is already made up, there is NO WAY any human can convince you to believe otherwise for your pride is on the line. I've dealt with this within myself and I fully believe that it can only take an act of GOD to heal a frozen heart.

 

[aribell]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

Laela, you are sooo right with this, so right. Poohbear, I too, felt "confused," and you know what, just as it is written above, it was ultimately an "out" for me in walking the Christian life. It is so much easier to give up and say it just must not make any sense, it must be impossible to follow, because then there is no striving against sin. If the bible is just a jumbled mess, then I don't have to continue trying to live for God, right? I can go about my business without having to worry about all this sin and guilt stuff. Having faith is hard, but believing and trusting that what God said is unquestionably true is the only way to gain peace.

I've been there, so there's no judgment here, but consider this. You are speaking of the importance of righteousness and refraining from sin. But if you embrace agnosticism and let go of your faith, will you continue to follow God's commands? Or will you gradually embrace that which you have already identified as wrong? I don't mean to be sensational in any way, but this is how spiritual warfare works. We tell ourselves that we are legitimately upset for a good reason (zeal for righteousness), but end up going in the completely opposite direction. How is it that you can be upset that Christians aren't following the Word the way you feel they should while at the same time considering abandoning that Word yourself?

You have reason to be frustrated when you see "believers" practicing sin. Your heart and spirit are resonating with the Lord's in His indignation against unrighteousness. Allow that frustration to draw you closer to Him. He is no less the Truth because humans get it wrong. And we have to remember not to judge anything or anyone before the time.

Only God knows someone's heart. I might stand up all day and night claiming to be a Christian, but I may not be in the least. God knows. Jesus Himself told us that there will be many people at the last day saying "Lord Lord, didn't we do such and such in your name," and He will tell them that they were never His. It's futile to look at the lives of those around you to judge who's genuinely a believer and who's not, who's close to God and who's not. We don't have the capacity to see truthfully. At the judgment day, each one of us will stand before Him and give an account of how we responded to His word. It's not going to matter that everyone around us was a hypocrite. We will still be accountable for how we walked before Him.

Jesus said that the way to find Him is narrow and that few find it. We can't be surprised if most people are getting it wrong. This is a hard walk. But He makes it possible for us to persevere.

Also, I'm not sure what type of spiritual environment you are in, but I am not around believers who practice sin. The couple that I live with does not practice sin, neither does my pastor, nor my Christian friends. Some spiritual environments are caustic and can cause people to become discouraged in their faith. If that is the case here, please pray to find believers who are genuinely walking the walk.

 

[discobiscuits]

Laela, this is an amazing post & it has convicted me. thank you for this. i need it. i hope it helps you too pooh...

one thing though. this passage reads as if it is impossible to come back to repentance if you leave which would mean you can't go back.

it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentance if they shall fall away[/

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I actually found the thread to be quite interesting and enlightening.

I myself am struggling with the whole idea of what it means to be a Christian. I feel like I'm becoming Agnostic due to all the division among Christianity, corruption, and hypocrisy. If Jesus is the one true way, then why are so many "Christians" abusing God's grace with their sins, and at the same time, looking down on others who sin or don't believe in God or Jesus? Aren't you as a Christian acting like someone who doesn't believe in God when you sin all day everyday and make an excuse that you can't stop because of your sinful fleshly nature from Adam?

Part of your struggle may be that you are too focused on what others are doing. I say this because the statements you made above are statements I hear from many people who are struggling with their belief or just outright don't believe. At the end of the day, if you desire to walk with God, your focus is supposed to be on Him and not the actions of others. Just because others are "abusing God's grace" as you put it, doesn't mean Jesus ISN'T the one true way.

Also, I want to point out that the truth is that we ARE all going to sin. The problem comes when we do the SAME thing over and over without repenting. But again, if you see someone doing that, it isn't your cross to bear. Especially if it causes YOU to be strained in your own relationship with God.

I look at it like this. If a woman is married, but she sees people around her cheating and doing horrible things to their husbands, will she decide that maybe she shouldn't be married any longer and leave her husband because of how OTHERS are behaving?

 

[Guitarhero]

Well God is not answering my questions nor is he soothing my confusion.

Dear one, give Him time. I know where you are even though I know I'm not you. There is a time of conflict and you will get through it to be able to move on in your life in a positive direction. But what good is asking people for directions on your path if you reject the map? I feel the very trouble you are feeling and it so touches me because I've been there - mind you, a different situation, but it was gut-wrenching. I had no rest, day or night. That's why I ask you to meditate, to restore calm in order to be able to reflect and even intellectualize through this situation. The very answer you seek might just be right in front of you but with the lack of peace and calm, the waves are obscuring it.

You will find where you belong, I am certain of it. But never strive to be another. You are unique and your answer will come designed just right for you. He is the author of intellect and He's got your philosophical answer just the way you need it. Think of that rose. It blooms after it is seeded and that takes time. Without patience, it will not bloom. With stress, it will not bloom. But when there is calm and meditation, it blooms magnificently.

 

[Guitarhero]

I forgot to add, in services today, the story was of the prodigal son. Jesus is on one shoulder and the satan on the other. One says to do the right thing because the action will break off the relationship and the other says to do it, it will be fun. If the bad way is chosen, the Holy One says to come back home to restore the relationship whereas the evil one lays the blame, tempting you to believe that you are not worthy of forgiveness. This is the relationship of the Father with His children who sin. He is always welcoming.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I'm tired of the rationalizations and excuses make for people who have valid questions about God and the Bible and Christianity. "

I'm equally tired of the excuses and rationalizations people make for not believing.

While I think from time to time most people will have low periods in their walk, I don't agree when it appears that they aim to make others doubt or question their walk. Poohbear, I am sorry that you are struggling in this way. However, as I read your posts in this thread, whether you agree with me or not, it seems that your posts are designed to make others question their own walks and beliefs. It really is true that misery loves company.

Many of the questions and issues you pose can be answered and addressed with a careful reading and study of the Word, as well as prayer and internal reflection.

if you choose to walk away from Him, then that is your choice. However I personally find it offensive that essentially you are condemning all Christians simply because they sin. In that sense you are being as judgmental and unforgiving as the very Christians you complain about.

 

[plainj]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

I know this post was a word for me too. It spoke to me. It got me thinking. Thank you.

 

[sidney]

sidney, take a look and re-read what you just posted and think about it. Does it really make any sense? I'm tired of the rationalizations and excuses make for people who have valid questions about God and the Bible and Christianity. "Seek wisdom"... "Call on the Lord" ... "Get to know Jesus"... "Go to the Word of God" ..."Satan is the author of confusion".... I know all the lines!!! I'm sick of them! Wake up and open your eyes and realize what you're saying before saying it. I used to say these very same things in order to help a "confused soul". It's easier said than done. Telling people to develop a relationship with Christ, who is not physically present but is supposedly spiritually present, doesn't really help at all. I have read my Bible. I have prayed to God. I have developed this so-called relationship with Jesus who isn't physically present. And I'm just not feeling it anymore! Not for just one particular reason, but for several. It mainly has to do with nothing making sense and reading and hearing so much contradiction, even when I study the Bible for myself. We try to rationalize and make excuses for things that happen. All in the name of Jesus. All because of faith in the unseen. Are we really fearful of not believing in the Bible? fearful of not believing in Jesus or God? So we make up things make us feel better and try to make others feel better? I know I just rambled alot here but if you really think critically and intelligently about everything that the Bible says, you will see what I'm talking about. But you don't even have to do that. Just look at the division among Christianity as a whole. It's ridiculous. We have baptists (even divisions among baptists), presbyterians, methodists, jehovah witness, pentecostal, CME, AME, apostolic, Church of God, and so on.

Okay Poohbear, I think I understand where you are coming from. Please know that I am not trying to give you a line, but I'm only sharing what is a reality in my life. When I need to understand, God reveals it to me. I spent my early years as a christian without truly encountering God. I don't know when and how it happens, but there is an active relationship that happens and there is no doubt that it's God. Poohbear I really don't mean to offend you by saying this, if it does please forgive me, but based on what you have shared I'm not sure you've had a true encounter with God. Because those who have experienced him know him and the truth is on their hearts and they walk accordingly. It's not about saying a prayer or going to church or just reading the bible, but there is a transforming power, and revelation of the truth. And you just 'know.' I pray that you do not give up, but fight the good fight of faith. I have been where you are and too doubted, but God showed himself to be true and manifested himself in my life. He became so real and now I know without a shadow of a doubt. If you need me, my pm box is here. But this is all I can contribute to this thread. Be blessed!

 

[sidney]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

Powerful Testimony!!! Thank you so much for sharing these words!

 

[Poohbear]

It is clear from your threads/posts that the bolded is highly unlikely. Why do I say that?

Hebrews 6:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I've come to realize that people who leave a church or stop being followers of Christ or turn their backs on God failed to exercise their FAITH. The principles God gave them in the Bible "didn't work" so they get mad, confused, disgusted with Christians, etc. They harden their hearts, like the Israelites did in the Wilderness. They blame everyone but themselves for feeling the way they do. I'm more inclined to believe this "confusion" you claim is an 'excuse' And I say this with Agape Love. You can get mad at me all you want, but I think you need to hear this.

I'll tell you what excuses are, they are a way of paving the way to do what we set our minds to do anyway, so there is no guilt. It's clear your mind has been made up and you're setting the stage, since the day you left your parents' church. Take away those excuses, you'll have nothing to fall back on but God -- and the Freedom you're so desperately seeking and I know you know that.

I was in a state of "confusion" before, knowing whom God is but running away from Him. I chose to live in in a den of demons, led by a frustrated Atheist. I falsely believed Atheisism was a freedom. I could do what I want, I was free. Yeah, right. All I got was heartache, trouble, people out to kill me, shame and disgust. This Atheist knew the Bible, too. He knew about all the Christian catch-phrases, too. So, I've heard all your rhetoric before and they don't move me one bit. Been there. Done that.

Of course those "Christian phrases" MEAN NOTHING to those who don't believe. But if you had been the strong Christian you say you were, you will be able identify with this and not spew it as nonesense. God's Word will never return to Him void.

I know what the blood of Jesus means. I don't say that to assuage any insecurities, but but to testify to the goodness of God. It was the Blood that saved me from getting murdered by someone who plotted to take my life. It saved me from a heart condition that I no longer have. It saved me from thieves, liars and cheats. I don't post willy nilly on this Forum to things I don't know to be true in Real Life. No faker here.

If you choose to discard God, that is your choice, but because you don't "feel" it anymore, doesn't mean He no longer exists or His Word isn't Truth. God will still move. He will still Save. And as the battle intensifies for more souls for the Kingdom, He will prevail. It is Written.


At the end of the day, it's your soul and you are held accountable for it, for the words that come out of your mouth. For the curse you speak on your own life. No matter where you go, who you choose to hang out with, what you choose to do, God WILL STILL BE THERE, right there with you.

He's married to your soul and He'll be right there when you return.

Yes, he'll keep the Light on for you, too, and He'll embrace you like the Father embraced his prodigal son.

Like N&W deftly said, it's your choice. I challenge you to go back and read all your own posts, you'll see you've been going in circles for quite a while, asking the same questions different ways. And My soul sincerely hurts for you, because you are a bright, intelligent and likeable young woman.

I will seriously keep you in my prayers because I know that God won't give up on you!

No, there's no reason to get mad here. Sounds like y'all may be getting y'all panties in a wad, but I'm straight...

And if you read what I said... I used past tense: I have been that strong Christian who would support the Bible up and down. I've been that Christian who had that great understanding of God's word. I had this great faith.

For me, it's not about doing what I want... It's about doing what is RIGHT! I want to do right, be good, and live a wonderful loving life. We shouldn't be scared into living right. We shouldn't be forced to live right or live by man's rules when we may already have a good sense of right and wrong already in our hearts and minds.

We do all this talk over here in the Christian thread about what God wants, what God hates, discussion of different sins, whether something is right or wrong in God's eyes, but we don't look at ourselves as individuals and what we are doing. Y'all will question someone's salvation about a particular sin, but fail to look at yourself. It's like your sin is okay while other people's sins are not okay.

I've exercised my faith, but what's the point of exercising your faith when you are told "we can't stop sinning" or "all Christians sin" or "we have forgiveness of sins over and over". Y'all keep ignoring that!!! Y'all won't address that issue like 1star has done. 1star actually understands where I'm coming from.

And you say that the blood of Jesus saved you from all these bad things... did you know these same things have happened to people who do not believe in Jesus? Being saved from murder, liars, and cheaters? That happens to non-believers too. People always attach good things happening to them to Jesus without thinking of the possibility that it could be coincidental. Good things like that happen to non-believers as well. But when something bad happens, it's that good old Satan! Come on now. What sense does that really make if your really really think about it? Good and bad things happen to believers and non-believers.

And I don't have to go back and read what I have said. I KNOW what I have said and asked. I know I may have been going in circles about this but y'all are failing to see what I see. Y'all are getting on the defense for no reason. Maybe out of fear, I'm not sure. But no one has been successful in answering my questions except for maybe 1star. Y'all ignore the fact that the Bible says to live and be holy, go and sin no more...yet, y'all say "it's ok, we have forgiveness with the blood of Jesus! We can't stop sinning." But do all this bad talk about sinful Christians when you're a sinful Christian too.

 

[Poohbear]

Laela, you are sooo right with this, so right. Poohbear, I too, felt "confused," and you know what, just as it is written above, it was ultimately an "out" for me in walking the Christian life. It is so much easier to give up and say it just must not make any sense, it must be impossible to follow, because then there is no striving against sin. If the bible is just a jumbled mess, then I don't have to continue trying to live for God, right? I can go about my business without having to worry about all this sin and guilt stuff. Having faith is hard, but believing and trusting that what God said is unquestionably true is the only way to gain peace.

I've been there, so there's no judgment here, but consider this. You are speaking of the importance of righteousness and refraining from sin. But if you embrace agnosticism and let go of your faith, will you continue to follow God's commands? Or will you gradually embrace that which you have already identified as wrong? I don't mean to be sensational in any way, but this is how spiritual warfare works. We tell ourselves that we are legitimately upset for a good reason (zeal for righteousness), but end up going in the completely opposite direction. How is it that you can be upset that Christians aren't following the Word the way you feel they should while at the same time considering abandoning that Word yourself?

You have reason to be frustrated when you see "believers" practicing sin. Your heart and spirit are resonating with the Lord's in His indignation against unrighteousness. Allow that frustration to draw you closer to Him. He is no less the Truth because humans get it wrong. And we have to remember not to judge anything or anyone before the time.

Only God knows someone's heart. I might stand up all day and night claiming to be a Christian, but I may not be in the least. God knows. Jesus Himself told us that there will be many people at the last day saying "Lord Lord, didn't we do such and such in your name," and He will tell them that they were never His. It's futile to look at the lives of those around you to judge who's genuinely a believer and who's not, who's close to God and who's not. We don't have the capacity to see truthfully. At the judgment day, each one of us will stand before Him and give an account of how we responded to His word. It's not going to matter that everyone around us was a hypocrite. We will still be accountable for how we walked before Him.

Jesus said that the way to find Him is narrow and that few find it. We can't be surprised if most people are getting it wrong. This is a hard walk. But He makes it possible for us to persevere.

Also, I'm not sure what type of spiritual environment you are in, but I am not around believers who practice sin. The couple that I live with does not practice sin, neither does my pastor, nor my Christian friends. Some spiritual environments are caustic and can cause people to become discouraged in their faith. If that is the case here, please pray to find believers who are genuinely walking the walk.

Nice post.

To answer your question, I'm not looking for an "out" from walking the "Christian" life. To me, the Christian life is about living holy, righteous, resisting temptation to do wrong, not falling into sin every now and then. I'm not looking to live this wild, rebellious life at all like some of you are thinking. I'm looking to live a good life without wrongdoing. It is miserable to live like everything is a sin and you can't stop sinning and when you repent you go back and do the same sin. Then you have to pray to this higher power, God who is the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost, who you have to have faith is there listening to you and speaking to you, but there's no actual physical presence or sound. That's not true repentance when you pray for forgiveness and go back to that sin. That's not a true Christian to sin and just expect God to forgive you everytime for the same sin or different sins. I have yet to find anything in the bible that says "God forgives you of past, present, and future sins." How is that? I can see forgiving you of past sins. But if he forgives you of present and future sins, what's the point of even confessing? "Because it shows you have faith". No, that's ridiculous too. We can't ignore God's call to obedience.

And you are so right about the way of life being narrow and how many do not follow it. Many are following this wide gate.

That's good to hear that you are not around people who do not practice sin. I just hate to hear people claim to be Christians and say it's okay to sin. Even though they may not straight out say it's okay to sin, their actions show differently.

Your post really gave me something to think about for real. I will continue to do my searching, but at the same time, I also want to find a way to intellectually and logically reason with what I should and should not believe.

 

[Poohbear]

Sometimes if your mind is already made up, there is NO WAY any human can convince you to believe otherwise for your pride is on the line. I've dealt with this within myself and I fully believe that it can only take an act of GOD to heal a frozen heart.

My mind is not made up and my heart is not frozen. And I could care less about my pride. That's what alot of self-proclaimed Christians like to do when they see someone questioning their faith. "You're not right with God"... "You're looking for an excuse not to follow Jesus" ... "You're hardening your heart like Pharoah"... WHATEVER! Get out of here with that mess.