I can't imagine.....

[Aviah]

I get what you're are saying, trust me...This is what I have been taught all my life...

...But can you relate this to Winston Bennett's case? Let's say Winston is the Christian and his wife is God...

Does Winston (the Christian) really love his wife (God) if he is continually being unfaithful in his marriage committment? Should his wife (God) forgive Winston (the Christian) over and over when he has sex with over 45 other women a month? Or should his wife (God) just divorce Winston (the Christian) and realize that Winston (the Christian) really doesn't love her (God)?

I can definitely see the analogy's point, still there are so many ways to "cheat" on God by sinning, and so many less ways to cheat on spouse, if you get what I mean? Nonetheless there are many ways to do your spouse wrong in a marriage, maybe that would be more comparable?
The difference between God and man and a married couple is that as humans we can only at best make educated guesses about the heart of our spouse, we can never absolutely know that they love us, we can only read the clues of it, the way they look at us, do things to help you, etc. The difference with God is that he knows us, better than we know ourselves, what will break us, what will buld us up, definitely. So before we even go to repent, God God KNOWS with certainty the entire cirumstance surrounding your choices. Not to say that they are excuses, but they are definitely factors in judgement. These scriptures below seem to suggest that the walk with God and growing up to resist sin is a process.

1. Colossians 4:12
   Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.
   Colossians 4:11-13 (in Context) Colossians 4 (Whole Chapter)
2. Hebrews 5:14
   But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
   Hebrews 5:13-14 (in Context) Hebrews 5 (Whole Chapter)
3. James 1:4
   Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
4. 2 Samuel 22:33
   It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.
   2 Samuel 22:32-34 (in Context) 2 Samuel 22 (Whole Chapter)
5. Psalm 19:7
   The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
   Psalm 19:6-8 (in Context) Psalm 19 (Whole Chapter)

I think it is possible, that after working diligently to follow God that you are able to resist sin, much better than before, and by absolute faith possible to live sin free. I'm not sure if you fall short of completeing this mission if there's no forgiveness for you.

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.


The bolded really stands out to me as saying that we are slaves to righteousness leading to holiness (without sin). I do believe its a process. When you are a slave to something you are dedicated to it, you are ruled by it. The righteousness we have is not our own, but a gift, so we did not earn it, but now abide in it, live by it. We also do not take on a slave mentality overnightm, thus why we have to be transformed by the renewal of our minds( Mentioned in Romans). With the scriptures above talking about persevereance unto perfection, righteousness leading to holiness, understanding milk going on to understanding meat, its a process. In the end, only God can judge what will happen, and that much we must trust Him for, that by abiding in His Word, though we may (not have to, or that its excused) sin in the process, that the grace given is sufficient and that he sees our hearts. Just like when Jesus mentioned that the tax collector that beat on his chest say ing "God have mercy on me a sinner" went home justified over the Pharisee that was self-righteous. We in all our understanding only understand in part, and with that limited understanding alongside God are to walk as righteously as we can. We may think ourselves hell-bound because of sin after accepting Christ, but it is ultimately his choice. Though Romans 6:2 poses an interesting point about living in sin any longer, much the way you talk about, however I think there may be a difference between living in sin and committing sin. I'll have to chew over that.


cont'd

 

[Aviah]

ETA :Hebrews 3

1Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "[a]

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[c]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

In referring to the OT Hebrews rescued from slavery, when you look at them they consistently went back to idol worship- why? because they would lose faith in the true God. Thinking that he would abandon them or had left them. Had they held on in faith serving him they would have made it through to the promised land.

I really hope this makes sense? (my brain is getting mixed up here) The Hebrews 3 part was added to emphasize the faith part in our salvation, because its really needed. Its impossible to please God without faith, and we are saved by grace, through faith. With the works following suit (gradually).


I think its safe to say that we aspire to perfection (living completely sin free) and that it may be attainable. The question would therefore be is it required to enter heaven? Again, God is the judge.

 

[Crown]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think you are confusing righteousness and total perfection.
Righteousness is instant, by faith when you come to Jesus-Christ, it is not yours, it is through Him.
Perfection is a process and a hope.

I did not read all the posts, but sincerely, I don’t see a post saying what you are asking (and real Christians don't believe this or act like this) :

We don't necessarily have to live morally upright? We can just yield to our sinful nature anytime we want knowing that God is going to forgive us and love us anyway?

If you really want to understand, I think you should now pray on this or continue to pray on this.

I am letting you with these, for meditation :

Phi. 3.12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
3.13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
3.14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
3.15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 3.16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Ja. 3.2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Gal. 2.11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 2.12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 2.13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

IJn. 2.1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2.2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[loolalooh]

This thread (particularly the latter half) was well-worth the read.

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks Aviah, Crown, CreoleNat, and a few others for the scriptures and explanations. I will relax on this issue with religion and beliefs before I lose my mind. I hope I can find peace with these feelings of being Agnostic and being a Christian. Take care.

 

[Poohbear]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think you are confusing righteousness and total perfection.
Righteousness is instant, by faith when you come to Jesus-Christ, it is not yours, it is through Him.
Perfection is a process and a hope.

I did not read all the posts, but sincerely, I don’t see a post saying what you are asking (and real Christians don't believe this or act like this) :

I think so too. Ever since being introduced to this Christian doctrine of sinless perfection, I started to think that righteousness and perfection were the same.

Now I see there are 3 main beliefs with Christianity... 1) Sinful/Lawless Christianity, 2) Sinless/Perfection Christianity, and 3) "Balanced" Christianity. #1 is just wrong...#2 is nearly impossible...#3 makes the most sense in the type of world we live in and with the type of people we are.

 

[Aviah]

Thanks Aviah, Crown, CreoleNat, and a few others for the scriptures and explanations. I will relax on this issue with religion and beliefs before I lose my mind. I hope I can find peace with these feelings of being Agnostic and being a Christian. Take care.

I'm not sure you can be Agnostic and Christian, but in any case, take you time, its a very important thing to understand. I pray that God settles your heart and shows you the truth, and that you abide in His peace, love and joy, remembering His grace is sufficient for you. Thanks again for expressing your thoughts, I genuinely hope all of this has helped.
Take Care x

Crown: Very well put! Thanks again for that clarification. It was a big help.

 

[Crown]

Thanks Aviah, Crown, CreoleNat, and a few others for the scriptures and explanations. I will relax on this issue with religion and beliefs before I lose my mind. I hope I can find peace with these feelings of being Agnostic and being a Christian. Take care.

Praise the Lord!

You are not an Agnostic, Poohbear, you are a Christian, you are in the body of Jesus-Christ. Trust Him.
Maybe you are actually renewing as an eagle. For you :

Chorus
They that wait upon the Lord,
Shall renew their strength;
They shall mount up with wings like eagles.
They shall run and not grow weary;
They shall walk and not faint;
Teach me, Lord;
Teach me, Lord, to wait!

1-
Teach me, Lord,
To wait down on my knees,
Till in your own good time,
You answer my pleas;
Teach me not to rely
On what others do,
But to wait in prayer
For the answer from you.

2-
Teach me, Lord,
To wait while hearts are aflame,
Help me humble my pride
And call on Your name;
Keep my faith renewed
Keep my eyes on Thee,
Help me be on this earth what
You want me to be.

 

[Southernbella.]

The thing is that it is not your place to make others question their walks and their beliefs. That is something that is deeply personal.

I think this is a great discussion and I was just going to lurk, but this stuck out to me.

In all fairness, a couple of people in this thread got kudos for going into the thread in OT and doing this very thing.erplexed I might not agree with everything Poohbear has posted (although I do understand where she's coming from), but how is what she did any different than what other posters did in OT?

 

[HoneyA]

I think this is a great discussion and I was just going to lurk, but this stuck out to me.

In all fairness, a couple of people in this thread got kudos for going into the thread in OT and doing this very thing.erplexed I might not agree with everything Poohbear has posted (although I do understand where she's coming from), but how is what she did any different than what other posters did in OT?

I wish I could thank you a 1000 times. This is one of the things that bothers me and feels off. It's almost like having too much pride or a false sense of superiority. I can't shake the feeling that there is something distinctly wrong (for lack of a better word) about that but to each his/her own. Live and let live.

 

[discobiscuits]

I think this is a great discussion and I was just going to lurk, but this stuck out to me.

In all fairness, a couple of people in this thread got kudos for going into the thread in OT and doing this very thing.erplexed I might not agree with everything Poohbear has posted (although I do understand where she's coming from), but how is what she did any different than what other posters did in OT?

that's how christians get a bad rep. people behave hypocritically. you are right.


(disclaimer for all: the preceding statement talks about behavior not any specific person or group. the statement is not to be interpreted as christians or ppl in this forum are hypocrites)

 

[Poohbear]

I think this is a great discussion and I was just going to lurk, but this stuck out to me.

In all fairness, a couple of people in this thread got kudos for going into the thread in OT and doing this very thing.erplexed I might not agree with everything Poohbear has posted (although I do understand where she's coming from), but how is what she did any different than what other posters did in OT?

I wish I could thank you a 1000 times. This is one of the things that bothers me and feels off. It's almost like having too much pride or a false sense of superiority. I can't shake the feeling that there is something distinctly wrong (for lack of a better word) about that but to each his/her own. Live and let live.

that's how christians get a bad rep. people behave hypocritically. you are right.


(disclaimer for all: the preceding statement talks about behavior not any specific person or group. the statement is not to be interpreted as christians or ppl in this forum are hypocrites)

I agree times three!!!

I feel like it's always best to be true and real about your feelings, thoughts, questions, and concerns.

 

[Poohbear]

What do you ladies think of these articles? These two articles I found have a lot to do what I have been talking about as well...

Jesus Saves From Sin
http://www.churchofgodeveninglight.com/tracts/jesussavesfromsin.htm

Whatever Happened To Sin?
http://knol.google.com/k/whatever-happened-to-sin#

Can Men Live Holy In This Life?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw4.html

How Then Can A Man Be Justified With God?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw14.html

The Sliding-Board To Hell
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw16.html

Understanding Romans 13:1-7 "being subject to governing authorities"
http://romans13.embassyofheaven.com/understanding.htm

 

[Ms Lala]

I am lurking in this thread. Interesting discussion. Poohbear you have regularly been in my prayers. I feel like I know you, I am a PK and feel like I understand where you are coming from. I went through a similar situation about 10 years ago. Seek and you will find, He will show Himself to you clearly in His word. People get so afraid about questions being asked but I commend you for digging deeper. God can handle questions.

 

[loolalooh]

What do you ladies think of these articles? These two articles I found have a lot to do what I have been talking about as well...

Jesus Saves From Sin
http://www.churchofgodeveninglight.com/tracts/jesussavesfromsin.htm

Whatever Happened To Sin?
http://knol.google.com/k/whatever-happened-to-sin#

Can Men Live Holy In This Life?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw4.html

How Then Can A Man Be Justified With God?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw14.html

The Sliding-Board To Hell
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw16.html

Understanding Romans 13:1-7 "being subject to governing authorities"
http://romans13.embassyofheaven.com/understanding.htm

Thanks for sharing. I look forward to reading these articles this weekend. After perusing the first one so far, I have to agree with this:

"If preachers teach people that they cannot live free from sin, they will never have faith to accept that they can, but will continue under bondage to the enemy of their souls and be lost forever. Just being sincere about a thing will not save the soul; but there must be an active, living faith of believing and receiving."

That's one thing I've picked up in my walk until recently ... that we "cannot live free from sin". I'm not sure where I got it -- the Church, other believers, etc. but in reading the Scriptures concerning Paul/Saul and talking with others, I feel otherwise ... like we can stop sinning if I want to. There's just no excuse, period.

Before the sin, there's a thought process (in my case, at least). It is in that thought process that you battle it out -- resist or accept this temptation. The closer you are to God ... the stronger you are in your walk ... the harder it is to accept the temptation. To get closer to God, one has to absorb the Word daily. Not weekly, or monthly, but daily. To get stronger in one's walk, one has to be active about renewing the mind, guarding the heart, believing that they can actually stop sinning, etc. It's like track practice -- you've gotta believe and put in the work constantly; miss a practice or two or second guess yourself and that's it.

 

[Crown]

What do you ladies think of these articles? These two articles I found have a lot to do what I have been talking about as well...

Jesus Saves From Sin
http://www.churchofgodeveninglight.com/tracts/jesussavesfromsin.htm

Whatever Happened To Sin?
http://knol.google.com/k/whatever-happened-to-sin#

Can Men Live Holy In This Life?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw4.html

How Then Can A Man Be Justified With God?
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw14.html

The Sliding-Board To Hell
http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/weightofword/wofw16.html

Understanding Romans 13:1-7 "being subject to governing authorities"
http://romans13.embassyofheaven.com/understanding.htm

I read a few lines in the first article.
For the record, I agree we can live free from sin. But I believe it is a process. This just does not happen like magic : the born again Christian has to grow up and acquire maturity. So, if someone sins, that does not mean he is not a Christian.

Keep in mind when some Christians speak about no sin, they are referring to the 10 commandments, and especially this:
Mark 10.19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

If so, I could say I don’t sin. But the NT is much more demanding than that, then I would not say I don’t sin, but I am not a sinner who is practising and laying in sin. I am the work of God in process and progress. Like someone said : be patient with me, God did not finish with me, but He will and I am obedient.

Just a few examples of sin (NT):

Mark 10.20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 10.21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 10.22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Mat. 5.21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 5.22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat. 5.27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 5.28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat. 5.31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 5.32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mat. 5.33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 5.34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 5.35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 5.36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 5.37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Mat. 5.38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 5.39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 5.40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 5.41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 5.42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Mat. 5.43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 5.44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

Rom. 14.23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Ja. 3.2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body… 3.6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 3.7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 3.8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 3.9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 3.10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[Poohbear]

^^^
^^^
^^^
Crown,

About the scriptures you posted... are those sins that you feel will be hard for most Christians to turn away/refrain/repent from?

And I also wonder about Mark 10:20... Jesus says to sell everything we have and give it to the poor. If we don't do that, are we sinning? I know some people would call it a sin of omission, but I wonder if Jesus will really count this against us if we don't sell everything we have. And I wonder if he is talking in a physical sense or if it's a matter of the heart.

 

[Crown]

^^^
^^^
^^^
Crown,

About the scriptures you posted... are those sins that you feel will be hard for most Christians to turn away/refrain/repent from?

And I also wonder about Mark 10:20... Jesus says to sell everything we have and give it to the poor. If we don't do that, are we sinning? I know some people would call it a sin of omission, but I wonder if Jesus will really count this against us if we don't sell everything we have. And I wonder if he is talking in a physical sense or if it's a matter of the heart.

I think it's personal : my challenge is not yours (general). If someone can look at these examples and others in the NT, evaluate himself and say : since I came to Christ, I did not sin, I would think you are denying. But If someone said : I am at a point in my walk where I don't sin anymore, I would say : Praise the Lord, you are such a testimony and I want to be where you are.

Concerning Mark 10: 20, again it's personal. Jesus looked at the heart of the young rich man and see although he observes all the commandments, this young man was attached with his possessions, in other words he loved his possessions more than God.

 

[discobiscuits]

I think it's personal : my challenge is not yours (general). If someone can look at these examples and others in the NT, evaluate himself and say : since I came to Christ, I did not sin, I would think you are denying. But If someone said : I am at a point in my walk where I don't sin anymore, I would say : Praise the Lord, you are such a testimony and I want to be where you are.

And I also wonder about Mark 10:20... Jesus says to sell everything we have and give it to the poor. If we don't do that, are we sinning? I know some people would call it a sin of omission, but I wonder if Jesus will really count this against us if we don't sell everything we have. And I wonder if he is talking in a physical sense or if it's a matter of the heart.

Concerning Mark 10: 20, again it's personal. Jesus looked at the heart of the young rich man and see although he observes all the commandments, this young man was attached with his possessions, in other words he loved his possessions more than God.

i was going to say pretty much the same thing re Mark 10:20. jesus was talking to that one individual not all believers.

the subject of people taking scriptures (not you pooh but ppl in general) is one of my pet subjects. i see it so often.

ppl like to use Jer 29:11 "for I know the plans i have for you" and they take it personally when He was only talking to one person. now, does that does not mean that He does not have plans for us but as it relates to that particular passage, He was discussing specific plans for a specific person not all believers.

some ppl just don't get that you can't take every scripture and personalize it b/c not every scripture is meant for you, me or whomever. context, it is about context.

back ot. crown is right. every person needs to examine himself

 

[Poohbear]

i was going to say pretty much the same thing re Mark 10:20. jesus was talking to that one individual not all believers.

the subject of people taking scriptures (not you pooh but ppl in general) is one of my pet subjects. i see it so often.

ppl like to use Jer 29:11 "for I know the plans i have for you" and they take it personally when He was only talking to one person. now, does that does not mean that He does not have plans for us but as it relates to that particular passage, He was discussing specific plans for a specific person not all believers.

some ppl just don't get that you can't take every scripture and personalize it b/c not every scripture is meant for you, me or whomever. context, it is about context.

back ot. crown is right. every person needs to examine himself

I have thought about that too (the notion of not every scripture is meant for everyone)...

If this is true, how do we discern what's for us individually and what's for everyone?

For instance, Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 x 7... was that meant just for Peter or meant for everyone? (this is just an example, I'm not implying we shouldn't forgive each other).

 

[Helpmeblongagain]

----------------------------

 

[discobiscuits]

I have thought about that too (the notion of not every scripture is meant for everyone)...

If this is true, how do we discern what's for us individually and what's for everyone?

For instance, Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 x 7... was that meant just for Peter or meant for everyone? (this is just an example, I'm not implying we shouldn't forgive each other).

IMO simply from reading the scriptures in context and being able to see (not interpret) the difference between a specific event and god or jesus speaking to that event and using a specific person or a life lesson.

there is nothing in the bible that is individually for any of us who are not specifically named in the bible. it is either for a specific individual written about or for all believers.

your example from Matthew 18 is a life lesson that jesus is teaching everyone from a general question that one person asked. read in context Matt 18:21-35, he answers the question then tells a parable and the last sentence is (paraphrased) "this is how God will treat each and every one of us if we don't forgive". so this is for all believers, not just one person.

conversely the rich young ruler example from earlier was the instruction given to sell all his possessions was for that one person because his hang up was his attachment to the material possessions. yet even in that specific instructions for that person, there is a/are lesson/s for all believers; affix your heart on the wrong things and you will not gain the promise. love of or attachment to material wealth will keep you from god.

 

[Mrsjohnson912]

I am a christian. I have been saved, but I guess I just don;t know how to really form a relationship with God. When I read the bible, I either get kinda bored or I get so confused, so I stop reading. I don't neccesarily feel like I am a bad person, BUT I know I do gossip at times, I get irritated really easily by certain people, I cuss from time to time and I like to drink wine. Can someone please give me some advice & pray for me & my family?

 

[Sharpened]

I am a christian. I have been saved, but I guess I just don;t know how to really form a relationship with God. When I read the bible, I either get kinda bored or I get so confused, so I stop reading. I don't neccesarily feel like I am a bad person, BUT I know I do gossip at times, I get irritated really easily by certain people, I cuss from time to time and I like to drink wine. Can someone please give me some advice & pray for me & my family?

There are times when you have to put the bible aside and simply pray...pray often, with or without words...pray in earnest until the tears comes...until you lose sleep or can't eat...until you get to the point when you break your own heart, your own will, so He can do His thing. For how long? Until He answers, even if it takes the rest of your life. That is the true meaning of humbling yourself. He deserves that much, no?

Those whom He has chosen agonize (agoni'zomai, Greek - to combat, to struggle) over their sins as His Spirit helps us overcome them. That is the key to true repentance. If we became perfect upon our baptism by His Fire, we would be dead. Why would He leave us here to be corrupted all over again?

My child's breathing treatment is done, so I bid you good night. Lord, bless the sincerity of those seeking the Pure, Living Water of Your Word, the Unleavened Bread of Your Knowledge and the Power of Your Spirit. For without Your sustenance, we would starve to death. Amen.

 

[Guitarhero]

I am a christian. I have been saved, but I guess I just don;t know how to really form a relationship with God. When I read the bible, I either get kinda bored or I get so confused, so I stop reading. I don't neccesarily feel like I am a bad person, BUT I know I do gossip at times, I get irritated really easily by certain people, I cuss from time to time and I like to drink wine. Can someone please give me some advice & pray for me & my family?

Get into a bible study online and start a little each day. Reading a lot and not comprehending is not as good as starting small and learning from it. Tell God how you feel and praise His Name. That is prayer. Do it your way, not anybody else's way unless you know set prayers like the Our Father or something like that.

As far as sins, then confess them to Him. But I wouldn't consider drinking wine a sin. I'm sure somebody here is grimacing with that but it's not founded to call it a sin. What God doesn't want us to do is to get drunk. So don't go overboard with the legalism and this/that sect and how they view it. It will drive you crazy and confuse you. First steps, baby steps. :Rose:

 

[Nefertiti0906]

i was going to say pretty much the same thing re Mark 10:20. jesus was talking to that one individual not all believers.

the subject of people taking scriptures (not you pooh but ppl in general) is one of my pet subjects. i see it so often.

ppl like to use Jer 29:11 "for I know the plans i have for you" and they take it personally when He was only talking to one person. now, does that does not mean that He does not have plans for us but as it relates to that particular passage, He was discussing specific plans for a specific person not all believers.

some ppl just don't get that you can't take every scripture and personalize it b/c not every scripture is meant for you, me or whomever. context, it is about context.

back ot. crown is right. every person needs to examine himself

Thanks for posting this. This is how I like to read the bible, I look at everything in context.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I think this is a great discussion and I was just going to lurk, but this stuck out to me.

In all fairness, a couple of people in this thread got kudos for going into the thread in OT and doing this very thing.erplexed I might not agree with everything Poohbear has posted (although I do understand where she's coming from), but how is what she did any different than what other posters did in OT?

This question should be directed at the people who actually did that. I have nothing to do with what those people did.