What's Permissible in G-dly Marriage

[Crown]

If we don't watch it, folks lurkin are gonna think Christians never 'did it' in order to know what to do wit' it'...

I'm just sayin'....

The above was written invisable to those who oppose .... Christians having oral sex.

We are talking about the sexual act, (coït in french) not the preliminaries, RIGHT?

 

[Shimmie]

How does anyone interpret Song of Solomon?

...A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
...Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.
...Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.
...Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.
...My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
...My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies.
I am my beloved's, and my beloved is mine: he feedeth among the lilies.
I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished and the pomegranates budded.

I hope this helps...

http://gospelthemes.com/songfaq.htm

 

[Shimmie]

Christian Article: I've heard these two women sharing about the Song of Solomon, on the radio and what they had to share made sense. Sex is truly a matter between the husband and wife.

This article is posted in two separate posts.

http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publish/printer-673.php

What is Not Okay in Bed?
Jan 28, 2006

By Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus


"If both partners agree, is anything taboo?" "What about the use of vibrators?" "Is oral sex okay?" [These are just a few questions that Christian women asked about the sexual relationship in marriage from a survey that the authors conducted.] But at the heart of each of these questions were two concerns: What does God prohibit in the sexual relationship between a husband and wife, and what does God permit?

We read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and compiled a list of every scriptural reference to sex. As we reviewed our list it became apparent that God gives tremendous sexual freedom within the marriage relationship. But God also sets forth some prohibitions that we must honor.

These are the ten things God forbids:

1. Fornication: Fornication is immoral sex. It comes from the Greek word porneia which means "unclean." This broad term includes sexual intercourse outside of marriage (1 Corinthians 7:2, 1 Thessalonians 4:3), sleeping with your stepmother (1 Corinthians 5:1), sex with a prostitute (1 Corinthians 6:13, 15-16), and adultery (Matthew 5:32).

2. Adultery: Adultery, or sex with someone who is not your spouse, is a sin and was punishable in the Old Testament by death (Leviticus 21:10). In the New Testament, Jesus expanded adultery to mean not just physical acts, but emotional acts in the mind and heart (Matthew 5:28).

3. Homosexuality: The Bible is very clear that for a man to have sex with a man or woman to have sex with a woman is detestable to God (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9).

4. Impurity: These are several Greek words which are translated as "impurity." To become "impure" (in Greek, molvno) can mean to lose one's virginity (Revelation 14:4), or to become defiled, due to living out a secular and essentially pagan lifestyle (1 Corinthians 6:9, 2 Corinthians 7:1). The Greek word rupos often refers to moral uncleanness in general (Revelation 22:11).

5. Orgies: For a married couple to become involved in sex orgies with different couples is an obvious violation of (1), (2), and (4) and needs no discussion.

6. Prostitution: Prostitution, which is paying for sex, is morally wrong and condemned throughout Scripture (Leviticus 19:29, Deuteronomy 23:17, Proverbs 7:4-27).

7. Lustful passions: First, let us tell you what this does not mean. Lustful passion does not refer to the powerful, God-given sexual desire a husband and wife have for one another. Instead, it refers to an unrestrained, indiscriminate sexual desire for men or women other than the person's marriage partner (Mark 7:21-22, Ephesians 4:19).

8. Sodomy: In the Old Testament, sodomy refers to men lying with men. The English word means "Unnatural sexual intercourse, especially of one man with another or of a human being with an animal." Unfortunately, some Christian teachers have erroneously equated sodomy with oral sex. In the Bible, sodomites refer to male homosexuals or temple prostitutes (both male and female). In contemporary usage, the term sodomy is sometimes used to describe anal intercourse between a man and woman. This is not the meaning of the biblical word.

9. Obscenity and coarse jokes: In Ephesians 4:29, Paul says, "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth." The Greek word for unwholesome is very descriptive and literally mans "rotten" or "decaying." In Ephesians 5:4, the Bible warns us to avoid "silly talk" or, as it is called in some versions, "coarse jesting." We have all been around people who can see a sexual connotation in some innocent phrase and then begin to snicker or laugh. This is wrong. However, this does not rule out appropriate sexual humor in the privacy of marriage, but rather inappropriate sexual comments in a public setting.

10. Incest: Incest, or sex with family members or relatives, is specifically forbidden in Scripture (Leviticus 18:7-18; 20:11-21).
​

God leaves much in our sexual relationship with our husbands up to our discretion. In all likelihood, the questions tugging at the back of your mind were not even touched upon. When she read this list, Shelby commented: "It's helpful to know what God says is wrong, but I still sometimes wonder if what my husband and I are doing is right. We have a great time together in bed, but every now and then, this nagging doubt comes — does God approve?"

To help you and all the Shelby's, we will get more specific and address the questions we are constantly asked.

----------------------------------

Continued next post

 

[Shimmie]

http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publish/what-is-not-okay-in-bed_2.php

Is Oral Sex Permissible? Oral sex is or oral stimulation of your partner's genitals with your mouth, lips, and tongue. The man may stimulate the woman's clitoris and the opening of the vagina with his tongue or the woman many pleasure the man's penis with her mouth. This sexual stimulation may or may not lead to orgasm for the husband and wife.

What does Scripture say about this sexual activity? Most theologians say the Scriptures are silent about oral-genital sex. Some believe two verses in the Song of Solomon may contain veiled references to oral sex. The first is Song of Solomon 2:3:

Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men.

In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
------------
Throughout the Song of Solomon, the word fruit refers to the male genitals. In extra biblical literature, fruit is sometimes equated with the male genitals or with semen, so it is possible that here we have a faint and delicate reference to an oral genital caress.

The second possible veiled reference is found in 4:16 (KJV):

Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.

These erotic words spoken by Solomon's bride are at the culmination of a very sensuous love scene. Shulamith asks her husband to blow on her garden (a poetic reference used throughout the Song for the vagina) and cause its spices to flow out. Of course one cannot be certain, but it is possible Shulamith is inviting her husband to excite her by caressing her with his mouth. She then invites him to enter her and feast on the pleasures waiting in her "garden."

Dr. Douglas Rosenau believes Scripture is silent on the topic of oral sex. "This does not make it right or wrong," he says. A key emphasis in the New Testament is Christian liberty. Nothing is unclean in itself, says Paul (Romans 14:14), and this presumably includes sexual variety. Lewis Smedes, professor of theology at Fuller Seminary, amplifies Paul's statement abut nothing being unclean.

Christian liberty sets us free from culturally invented "moral" taboos; and since there is no rule from heaven, it is likely that the only restraint is the feeling of the other person. For example, if one partner has guilt feelings about oral sex play, the Christian response of the other will be to honor the partner until they adjust their feelings. On the other hand, if the partner has only aesthetic reservations, and if these are rooted in some fixed idea that sex is little more than a necessary evil anyway, they have an obligation to be taught, tenderly and lovingly, of the joys of sex in the freedom of Christ.

In Intended for Pleasure, Dr. and Mrs. Ed Wheat says that oral sex is a matter that concerns only the husband and wife involved. If both find it enjoyable and pleasant, then it may properly fit into the couple's lovemaking practices. One goal of lovemaking is to fill a treasure trove of memories with delightful love experiences that will quicken your responses during your future times together.

One woman might feel horrified by the above playful interchange between a husband and wife. To her, oral sex is repulsive. Another may think the minister and his wife have a gloriously free, creative, and fun sexual relationship. She sees that oral sex adds a beautiful dimension to this couple's lovemaking.

Before we go any further, let us clarify our intent. Are we suggesting you incorporate oral sex into your love play? No. We are not making recommendations. Instead, our purpose is to set out for you what Scripture prohibits and to encourage you to seek God's wisdom concerning His personal recommendations for your marriage.

Each couple is different. Each husband and wife is unique. Because Scripture is either silent — or veiled — concerning this practice, the only way to discover what God allows for you is for you to ask Him. If you've never talked to God about your sexual relationship, now is a good time to start. You will not shock God. Remember, sex was His idea. God is a God of wisdom (Daniel 2:20). He promises that when we lack wisdom, if we ask Him, He will give it to us (James 1:5)

• As you seek God's wisdom, you might find it helpful to ask these three questions about any sexual practice you and your husband are considering:
• Is it prohibited in Scripture? If not, we may assume it is permitted. "Everything is permissible for me," (1 Corinthians 6:12, NIV).
• Is it beneficial? Does the practice in any way harm the husband or wife or hinder the sexual relationship? If so, it should be rejected. "Everything is permissible for me — but not everything is beneficial." (1 Corinthians 6:12, NIV).
• Does it involve anyone else? Sexual activity is sanctioned by God for husband and wife only. If a sexual practice involves someone else or becomes public, it is wrong based on Hebrews 13:4, which warns us to keep the marriage bed undefiled.

Let's see how these questions can help when it comes to making decisions about certain sexual practices that are not specifically spelled out in Scripture.

Are Vibrators Permissible? Some couples enjoy incorporating the use of sexual aids such as vibrators into their lovemaking. To find out if the use of vibrator is right or wrong, let's apply the three questions. Is the use of a vibrator prohibited by Scripture? Is a vibrator beneficial in lovemaking? Does the use of a vibrator involve anyone else?

As we look at the list of ten prohibitions, we see that there is no scriptural reference that would prohibit the use of a vibrator. So if a vibrator enhances a couple's lovemaking and is used exclusively for the couple's private enjoyment, then it is permitted. Does this mean we are suggesting you run out and buy a vibrator? No. Again, we are not recommending any sexual practice. We are only trying to help you discern what is best in your marriage as you seek the wisdom of God.

What about X-Rated Videos? Obviously videos did not exist during biblical times, so we will not find "Thou shalt not watch X-rated videos" in Scriptures. (The same is true for vibrators.) But as we read through the list of the ten prohibitions, a red flag is raised. In number two on the list, adultery is defined as "looking on a woman to lust" whether the woman (or man) is on a video, in a picture, or in the living flesh. Secondly, number four on the list describes impurity as "moral uncleanness." X-rated would qualify as "morally unclean," thereby making them something God would disdain.

Now let's apply the questions:

• Are X-rated videos prohibited by Scripture? Yes, based on (2) and (4).
• Are X-rated vides beneficial? Anything that promotes "moral uncleanness" is not beneficial.
• Do X-rated videos involve someone else? Yes. You bring the man or woman on the video into your lovemaking.

Based on these answers, we could conclude that God wants us to stay away from X-rated videos.

We have considered three "gray areas," oral sex, vibrators, and X-rated videos. There are many others. We encourage you and your husband to prayerfully seek God's wisdom, study the list of ten prohibitions, and use the three questions to help you discern what to do in your specific situation.

As Christians we are simultaneously free and responsible. We are responsible to seek the best of the one we love, to think more highly of him and his desires than our own (Philippians 2:3-4). But we are also free to explore new territories of sexual delight.

According to Dr. Lewis Smedes, "The Christian word on trying out a sexual practice that is not prohibited in Scripture is 'Try it. If you like it, it is morally good for you. And it may well be that in providing new delight to each other; you will be adventuring into deeper experiences of love.'"

God has given you great freedom in your sexual relationship with your husband. Remember His words to Solomon and Shulamith:

"Eat, friends; drink and imbibe deeply, O lovers" (Song of Solomon 5:1).

------------------

I think this article covers something is everyone's post in this thread.

Main Focus:

Be Prayerful

The Bible is Silent/We are Silent

What happens in "Vegas" between the Husband and Wife, stays in 'Vegas'...

Blessings Everyone...

 

[Ms.Honey]

First, Solomon, God bless him was KNOWN to be a sexual pervert. He had 1,000 women at least. He got it from his daddy

Secondly, these references are seen ONLY in the song of Solomon who was again...... sexual pervert There are no other scriptural witness to these acts The TRUTH must be established by two or more witnesses.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you: By the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=347283

 

[AnnDriena_]

my two cents. The bible states with no uncertainty that a man is not to lay with a man as he lays with a woman.

As for how some members "came" at another board member. I look at it as coming at the devil. Our Father says we are to give him NO leeway. And the devil comes in all forms even as an angel of light.


So the question as for whether homosexual relations are ordained is not a question at all. As for anal. If it is pleasurable for both I think it's alright but as far as I know it isn't pleasurable for the woman. But I guess if she is willing to take the pain for her husband than kudos to her. But I wish some of these men would think about what they are asking from their wives. Where in the world did they get the idea that they "needed" sex in such positions? Is regular sex not good enough anymore? Really sometimes men these days scare me.

 

[Shimmie]

First, Solomon, God bless him was KNOWN to be a sexual pervert. He had 1,000 women at least. He got it from his daddy

Secondly, these references are seen ONLY in the song of Solomon who was again...... sexual pervert There are no other scriptural witness to these acts The TRUTH must be established by two or more witnesses.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you: By the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=347283

And by the mouth of this witness, give it up.

Precious Lady, you are indeed most entitled to your feelings and opinions on this matter, and I respect them and I respect you more.

But, you can't brow beat or pound into the dust, what 'you' feel is right or wrong between a man and his wife, or what gives them pleasure in the privacy of their own bedroom.

There are more witnesses against you in this, including scripture. And according to the thread you've reference, this makes you a false witness in this matter.

For how is this hurting you personally? It shouldn't. And if it does, it's only because you've chosen it to do so. You've made this an unnecessary battle. It's bearing a false witness against your married sisters and brothers in Christ.

You've yet to make a valid scriptual premise for the arguements which you've presented. This is not 'your' battle. It's actually no ones battle.

It is still and always will be a private matter between a husband and wife... the privacy of their bedroom, whom no one has any right to assume, presume, or attack how they enjoy making love with one another.

Granted, King Solomon had his weaknesses, he even 'unveils' them in Ecclesiastes; however I will refer to what Jesus would say to and about those in marriage. "Where are your accusers?"

:Rose: Beautiful Sister, none of us should be named among them, who accuse the privacy of a happily married man and woman, for when Jesus further says, "Go and sin no more, He is speaking to those of us, who invade their marital privacy.

I claim no perfection of knowledge, for I am not God who knows their hearts.

Love and blessings, Ms. Honey

 

[AnnDriena_]

False witness? I just see a difference of opinion and someone who sees the scripture as that which supports her opinion. I think we are throwing the Christianese (church language) around too much.

false witness? accusers? No. Different opinion holder. Yes

and for the record I don't agree with her opinion but I don't think she is in the false witness territory though. My two cents. keep the change.

 

[discobiscuits]

AnnDriena. I like your two cents. I feel where you are coming from. I've felt like that too in some of these threads.

At least one of the "2-3 witness" scriptures that was quoted and is still being quoted and used out of context, yet still keeps getting used as a tool to drive home or support points made. I think (Shimmie correct me if I err) that that is where the false witness comment stems from: the incorrect or at least the over use or misuse of those scriptures for the above intent.

Even if everyone in this thread agrees that Solomon was a horn-dog by heredity and his lack of self control got him in trouble with Almighty God/Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim, it was not because he had more than one wife (David had four) it was because he disobeyed the instructions given to the kings some of which were not to marry women from certain tribes because they would turn the king's heart away from God. Solomon disobeyed that by marrying "strange women".

I have yet to find any scripture that says the king could only have one wife. The scripture says do not multiply horses or wives. And by those same 2-3 witnesses, we can see David (horn-dog Sr.) was called a man after God's heart whereas HD jr was destroyed and all remnants of his wiped off the earth. David had four wives (not multiples/many - four is a few). Solomon had multiples from the forbidden tribes. But I am now off topic. I put the link in one of my earlier posts about multiple wives and the kings.

Those same 2-3 or more witnesses also bear witness to Abraham sleeping with his maiden (adultery) per his wife's idea (man, Sara and Eve got their huzbuns in some trouble LOL) yet he was still blessed and God still kept His word to Isaac and also blessed Ishmael even though His covenant was through and with Isaac.

Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

But again, I am off topic and apologize. I don't know how much of which threads you've read so I apologize for my recap if you already knew all that I just said.

I like what Shimmie said and she said it like a lady. I would not have been as gracious so I'm so glad she said what she said to whom she said it. Some one needed to and I'm glad it was not me.

There are some very strong beliefs and opinions in this thread about the topic of what is permissible with God in the marriage bed. I know that if I were to choose to get married, my huzbun and I would seek God in this matter but I would in no way, shape or form ask my church or pastor nor care what my church had to say on the matter (Note: asking the pastor for scriptures is not the same as taking the pastor's personal opinion in one's bedroom).

The bible is silent on the specifics of what a husband and wife can do sexually. It simply states that the marriage bed is undefiled. The bible is against using the body against what its natural use is for (Romans 1:26-27). If a couple sought God about what "natural use" is and they decided that certain types of sex were not God's will, then that is for them. (Personally, I agree with my pastor's comments as far as "natural use" goes. But I would not presume to tell a married couple this or that is not for you - it is in the bible. I would only show them what I see and explain how I see it (if they asked me) and let them take it to God and decide for themselves).

I am in agreement with most people in this tread: it is between that husband and that wife and their God what goes on in, under, next to, around their bed (or any other part of their house) as it relates to sex.


Again, Ann I hope I did not recap what you already knew and I hope you and everyone else understands what I'm trying to convey. I'm not always the most eloquent or clearly spoken one in this forum. Sometimes I present my comments in a way that in the past has been misinterpreted or misunderstood or the tone is not well received. I hope I did better this time in expressing my points.

 

[hopeful]

my two cents. The bible states with no uncertainty that a man is not to lay with a man as he lays with a woman.

As for how some members "came" at another board member. I look at it as coming at the devil. Our Father says we are to give him NO leeway. And the devil comes in all forms even as an angel of light.


So the question as for whether homosexual relations are ordained is not a question at all. As for anal. If it is pleasurable for both I think it's alright but as far as I know it isn't pleasurable for the woman. But I guess if she is willing to take the pain for her husband than kudos to her. But I wish some of these men would think about what they are asking from their wives. Where in the world did they get the idea that they "needed" sex in such positions? Is regular sex not good enough anymore? Really sometimes men these days scare me.

That is why women must choose their husbands wisely. Some men are scary. But if a man love's his wife as Christ loved the Church then surely he won't want to cause her harm or embarrass her. I would not have a man who would expect ridiculous and or demeaning things of me.

 

[pebbles]

Thank-you, ladies.