What's Permissible in G-dly Marriage

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I thought I'd move this particular discussion to a new thread as not to hijack the "Saved and Sexy" discussion.


I found this article on Belief.net and it's brief about the major points of several religions concerning the types of sex permissible in marriage:

Sodomy laws in the original American colonies were based on common English sodomy laws. Sodomy was considered a crime and defined as non-procreative sexual practices that included masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex.

Both English and U.S. laws derived from religious rules about sodomy. In 1683, Pennsylvania called sodomy an "unnatural sin," and New Jersey declared it among "offenses against God." By 1960, all U.S. states had laws in place against sodomy.

Since then, most states have repealed sodomy laws, though 14 states maintain laws banning it either between homosexuals or between both homosexuals and heterosexuals. For many religions, the question of whether sexual acts that do not result in procreation are allowed is still a hot issue. Here's a look at what the major faiths say about non-procreative sexual acts.
Judaism
Jewish laws about non-procreative sex usually stem from the biblical story of Onan, in Genesis, when Onan sleeps with his dead brother's wife but doesn't ejaculate. Instead he "spilt the seed on the ground," so as not to give his brother offspring, and God slew Onan for spilling his seed. Some strict Jewish interpretations use this as reference for banning all sexual acts that don't lead to procreation, such as masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex.
But more liberal Jewish interpretations see Onan's crime not as spilling his seed but as refusing to father offspring for his deceased brother, and deliberately withdrawing from his sister-in-law for that purpose, thereby using another person sexually in the process. Judaism strongly encourages sex for pleasure (within the context of marriage). Therefore Onan's crime does not necessarily prohibit all non-procreative sex acts. As Rabbi Shmuley Boteach writes in "Kosher Sex," ".in oral sex the purpose is not to destroy seed. Rather it is to try something new and pleasurable, something that will cause husband and wife to increase their dependency on each other, and lessen their dependency on strangers. To repeat: Judaism opposes the willfull destruction of seed, but not sexual practices that may sometimes involve the spilling of seed, but which are pursued for purposes of pleasuring husband and wife."
Though strict Jewish law prohibits sodomy, many interpret Jewish laws about non-procreative sex to be less prohibitive, because the sexual pleasure of both man and woman are so important.
Catholicism
Catholicism teaches that sexual intimacy is a gift to married heterosexual couples; God intended for them to "experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit." The Church teaches that sex has two ends: "The good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life." These two meanings--which Catholic doctrine calls the "unitive" and "procreative" functions of sex--"cannot be separated." The Catechism says homosexual acts "are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved"

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Christianity - General
Christianity teaches that sexual union between husband and wife is primarily for procreation, though sexual pleasure is important as well. The bible prohibits homosexual sex and sodomy, though it is mostly silent on heterosexual sodomy. Conservative Christians teach that sodomy is wrong and that any homosexual acts are deviant. As biblical scholar Ben Witherington writes, " Not all forms of sexual sharing, even between consenting adults, can be affirmed as either good or "normal", however "natural" certain desires may seem." Many Christian denominations, however, have more liberal stances toward homosexuality, allowing gay clergy and ordaining gay marriage.
Mormon
Mormons believe sex is sacred and is primarily a procreative act. Former Latter-Day Saints President Spencer W. Kimball has written: "The union of the sexes, husband and wife (and only husband and wife), was for the principal purpose of bringing children into the world. Sexual experiences were never intended by the Lord to be a mere plaything or merely to satisfy passions and lusts." He continues, "There are some people who have said that behind the bedroom doors anything goes. That is not true and the Lord would not condone it." More on Mormonism and sexuality.

Buddhism
Buddhists generally believe that all sexual desire is something to overcome, like other forms of attachment. Buddhists do not believe that humans have an obligation to procreate, and celibacy is seen by many Buddhist traditions as a step on the path to enlightenment. Buddhist teaching doesn't normally distinguish between what type of sex is appropriate and what is not, though some believe Buddhism prohibits oral and anal sex. The Buddha did not teach about homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Although the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Buddhism leader, has made statements against homosexual relationships and has said that lesbian and gay sex is "sexual misconduct," many Buddhists interpret Buddhism as more accepting of homosexuality than other religions.

Hinduism
Hinduism does not have specific laws about sodomy, but the tradition does teach that sex is primarily for procreation. According to Hinduism Today, "Hinduism neither condones nor condemns birth control, sterilization, masturbation, homosexuality, petting, polygamy or pornography."

Islam
Traditional Islam prohibits sodomy, both between heterosexual couples and members of the same sex. As one hadith explains, "Allah (SWT) will not look at the man who commits sodomy with a man or a woman" (Sahih Al-Tirmithi). Muslims who interpret the Qur'an and hadith strictly believe Islam condemns homosexuality and considers it a deviant act.

 

[PaperClip]

The Apostle Paul said this twice:

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 (Amplified)
12Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.

13Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again].


1 Corinthians 10:23 (Amplified)
23All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life].

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

The Apostle Paul said this twice:

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 (Amplified)
12Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.

13Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again].


1 Corinthians 10:23 (Amplified)
23All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life].

Which is why I think the decision is between the couple, in this case. It's not clearly spelled out in scripture LOL.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know ............

 

[Ms.Honey]

Sound familiar?

 

[Aviah]

*Post deleted, see below*

 

[Aviah]

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know ............

Sound familiar?

I don't get it...

 

[moonglowdiva]

Bind the devil and pray about it. Seek Jesus. End subject.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know ............

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...........

Jesus is the voice of God and He walked in the garden in the cool of the day. Why didn't she just wait and ask God? Why was she listening to someone else other than God and not getting the answer directly from Him? She talked to God about other things but why not this? The result of not asking God is before you make a decision is............

A lot of confusion and sorrow would have never occured in Eve's life if she had just asked God instead of trying to interpret what God said on her own. Jesus, the Voice of God which is the Word of God, never told her not to touch the tree. He told her TO touch the tree and take care of it she misinterpreted the Word. Then instead of asking her DH her next line of authority (after seeking first God) she listened to another's interpretation of what God said.

JUST.ASK.JESUS.YOURSELF!!!! HE.IS RIGHT.THERE.WITH.YOU.!!!!!!!

 

[discobiscuits]

A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.

I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
"I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.

The mouth is for food! The anus is for defecation!

Don't ask me anything else."

I almost fell out. You could hear a pin drop and the only noise you could hear were the unmarrieds snickering. It really was funny.

I'd never ask my religious leader for permission or the Godly thumbs up in my marriage bed.

You are correct with this:

Which is why I think the decision is between the couple, in this case. It's not clearly spelled out in scripture LOL.

I was also reminded by same said friend that people look for the bible to speak specifically on everything and it does not. The bible is silent on some topics. Some things are truly not spelled out in scripture. That is when you ask the Holy Spirit for help or just let go of whatever the 'it' is and leave it with God.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.

I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
"I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.

The mouth is for food! The anus is for defecation!

Don't ask me anything else."

I almost fell out. You could hear a pin drop and the only noise you could hear were the unmarrieds snickering. It really was funny.

I'd never ask my religious leader for permission or the Godly thumbs up in my marriage bed.

You are correct with this:


I was also reminded by same said friend that people look for the bible to speak specifically on everything and it does not. The bible is silent on some topics. Some things are truly not spelled out in scripture. That is when you ask the Holy Spirit for help or just let go of whatever the 'it' is and leave it with God.

Exactly. Otherwise, you get "advice" from people who simply do not know and are bent upon getting one to see things from their particular perspective and tastes. So, if one prays and seeks G-d about it, person X might have a different answer from person Z. Afterall, they are personally seeking an answer in their own lives about it. What I don't wish to see is person X condemning person Z for their own choices and direction. That happens all to often in this CF. Some just cannot even take their own advice.

 

[MA2010]

A friend of mine said this when some of us at church discussed a similar topic: When in doubt, leave it out.

I'll never forget the day that my former pastor said, bright and early on a Sunday morning (paraphrased):
"I'm tired of newly weds asking me about the marriage bed and what they can and cannot do.

The mouth is for food! The anus is for defecation!

Don't ask me anything else."

I almost fell out. You could hear a pin drop and the only noise you could hear were the unmarrieds snickering. It really was funny.

I'd never ask my religious leader for permission or the Godly thumbs up in my marriage bed.

You are correct with this:


I was also reminded by same said friend that people look for the bible to speak specifically on everything and it does not. The bible is silent on some topics. Some things are truly not spelled out in scripture. That is when you ask the Holy Spirit for help or just let go of whatever the 'it' is and leave it with God.

Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!

LOL. I actually agree with it. But I do know people into A-sex. It's hard for me even to type that one. As I said before, I don't wanna judge their decision since it's not exactly forbidden in scripture. But for me, actually, I wish to have full control of my sphincter muscle, esp. in public

 

[Enchantmt]

This might help:

http://themarriagebed.com/

 

[discobiscuits]

Your pastor's quote is fuuuunnnyyyyy!!!

Girl, good times indeed @ that place.

He was sooooo heated when he said that though. It was hilarious.

 

[Ms.Honey]

There are no gray areas or unknowns with God He is clear. WE want to make it seem unknown. He said I will not leave you ignorant and He does not lie.

Rom 1:17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

For the invisible things of God(stuff that's not spelled out in detail) can CLEARLY be seen being UNDERSTOOD by the things that are made(his other creations).

Female animals do NOT perform oral sex on male animals. Male animals do NOT perform oral sex on female animals. Male animals do not perform anal sex on female animals and vice versa (yeah cuz wives are performing anal on their husbands too). Neither do animals use sex toys.



Rom 1:22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Rom 1:24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Rom 1:25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

He is speaking about straights here. Amen ends one thought before going into another correct? We end our prayers with Amen correct?
THEN he starts to speak of gays in the next verses. Before that he's speaking of what straights are doing sexually.

 

[pebbles]

Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals?

Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.

 

[Ms.Honey]

No, we should be at least above other mammals. They are driven by natural instinct and have not sinned and can not sin against God. Even they await the return of the Lord because of man's sin and aren't where they need to be.

When God presented Eve to Adam she had no need for additional props to help her. She was fit and adaptable a help meet (able) to meet his needs.

The scripture is clear but we will not see. Since we know that the Lord has set His leaders to edify the church I would like to know what everyones OWN Church's belief is on oral, anal and other sexual things. Afterall that's where the Lord sent us to know more about His word and to be edified. We can at least agree with what the authority Jesus set us personally under says right?

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals?

Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.

I believe the issue makes so many people "embarassed" to talk about it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's the men who are pushing for it. And absolutely, prayer for anything in life is what we should do. G-d is central.

But if someone feels bad for doing it...that's not okay for the husband to push it because he's only benefitting himself. From reading about it from a variety of sources, I've never gotten 1 religious consensus that indicates what is permissible or not. I just know that if one doesn't feel comfortable, one should not be "forced" to do so. Women have been objectified by their spouses for such. And although it is not new, are the religious seeking answers because they also have been influenced by this sex-obsessed/p*rn* influenced society?

 

[Ms.Honey]

Jesus who is our first example who IS INERRANT, NEVER WRONG and KNOWS ALL THINGS, STILL went to the Lord in prayer EVEN when He knew He knew the correct answer. But WE who know we sin daily STILL wanna say, "No, I don't need to pray about it specifically, find out what my church says on these subjects because I DON'T SEE......." I don't remember that scripture that says that's what were to do. It's very telling when prayer warriors won't specifically pray about something.

Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Jesus KNEW what He had to do YET HE still prayed to the Father.

Ladies who say they've prayed on it, did you ask God if you were indeed correct in your interpretation that all sexual activities or at least the ones you believe are fine were fine with Jesus?

See this is what I'm saying. No one will even pray," Lord, I believe that oral sex and other sexual activities are fine from everything I've read, heard and from what it brings in terms of pleasure to the marriage bed. Lord I don't see ANYWHERE in the bible where you say we can't participate in sexual activities including oral, anal, masturbation, sex toys, etc. Father, I believe I am correct I know that I AM NOT INERRANT but You are so I would like confirmation from you that I am correct in my belief or correct me if I am wrong. In Jesus' name, Amen."

No one is praying about it but praying around it. Folks still won't just come right out and ask Him. For those who are willing to hear, go STRAIGHT to the source, your source God the Father and go in Jesus' name and just ask Him if it is indeed ok.

 

[pebbles]

How in the world can you know that no one is praying about it? Because they haven’t come to the same conclusion as you have? That isn’t right. The intimate acts that take place between husband and wife is not up for the critique or judgments of others. Yes, I understand that you don't like it when we point out that GOD is silent about sex acts in marriage, but HE is. There's no getting around it.

I fervently hope that nothing said in these threads has caused wives who were otherwise happy and fulfilled in their sex lives to now be uncomfortable and distant with their husbands in bed, because that just brings about tension and stress, and none of us needs to be the cause of that. The only person who ever walked the face of this earth free of any and all sexual sin was CHRIST JESUS. Everybody else brings their own attitudes and opinions to the subject. Let's not forget that.

 

[Shimmie]

Surely we're not considered to be the same as animals?

Frankly, I think there needs to be a consensus reached. People have differing views on the matter, period. There is no biblical scripture specifically condemning oral sex, so the matter remains open to interpretation. Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you. I won't condemn anyone here for what happens or doesn't in their marriage bed. I don't have a heaven or hell to put anyone in.

Pebs, I could not agree with you more. You are so right! Neither can I judge any married couple for what they 'agree' to do in their bedroom. That's their business. I'm not concerned with it.

As long as a husband and wife are equally yoked in their bedroom, who am I to say anything about it? They are happy; as long as they have a threesome with Jesus and no one else, it's ordained. It's between them and the Lord.

I know I don't want someone else or their theories or opinions or 'their' Biblical translations up in my bedroom with me and my husband. Put the kids to bed, turn off the TV, kick the dog out, put the cat in the basement; the bird back in it's cage; and mama goes home (his mama ).

Shoot, I waited long enough to have him all to myself. It's our 'shimmie' time and I'm not spending it with anyone else except him.

This is what I don't get; just how hard is it to have sex?

Did something change that we don't know about? The man has his parts, the woman has all of hers and ............................................... they know what to do all on their own (the anatomy does); it's not rocket science.

Just do it!

If the parts don't fit then quit!

 

[Ms.Honey]

How in the world can you know that no one is praying about it? Because they haven’t come to the same conclusion as you have? That isn’t right. The intimate acts that take place between husband and wife is not up for the critique or judgments of others. Yes, I understand that you don't like it when we point out that GOD is silent about sex acts in marriage, but HE is. There's no getting around it.

I fervently hope that nothing said in these threads has caused wives who were otherwise happy and fulfilled in their sex lives to now be uncomfortable and distant with their husbands in bed, because that just brings about tension and stress, and none of us needs to be the cause of that. The only person who ever walked the face of this earth free of any and all sexual sin was CHRIST JESUS. Everybody else brings their own attitudes and opinions to the subject. Let's not forget that.

Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! God is silent on NOTHING.

ETA: This is a PUBLIC OPEN FORUM unlike other forums on this board and we need to be durn sure we are correct before we start telling folks stuff about sexual activities. When suggesting that people pray to God directly and finding out their OWN church's stance on certain subjects becomes dismissed it is very telling.

 

[pebbles]

Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! God is silent on NOTHING.

Really? So you have found passage about oral sex between husband and wife? And please, don't yell and get upset. It's a discussion.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Really? So you have found passage about oral sex between husband and wife? And please, don't yell and get upset. It's a discussion.

I'm not yelling, I'm trying to be clear. Everyone needs to pray and ask God directly THEMSELVES and not go by anyone's personal belief, not theirs not mine not yours or anyone elses on this forum.

Pray, ask God and also find out what our OWN church's teachings are on the subject.

 

[pebbles]

Because when they pm me they are saying that they HAVE NOT PRAYED AND ASKED HIM DIRECTLY THAT'S HOW!!!!!! God is silent on NOTHING.

ETA: This is a PUBLIC OPEN FORUM unlike other forums on this board and we need to be durn sure we are correct before we start telling folks stuff about sexual activities. When suggesting that people pray to God directly and finding out their OWN church's stance on certain subjects becomes dismissed it is very telling.

I know very well that this is a public forum, and I'm alway careful about what I say, and my attitude on it. You seem to get upset when people are not agreeing with you. Surely we're entitled to have our own opinions? I'd like to express mine, just as you express yours without having anyone jump on me for having a different opinion. I'm not attacking you, so don't attack me.

 

[pebbles]

I'm not yelling, I'm trying to be clear. Everyone needs to pray and ask God directly THEMSELVES and not go by anyone's personal belief, not theirs not mine not yours or anyone elses on this forum.

Pray, ask God and also find out what our OWN church's teachings are on the subject.

Who said people shouldn't pray? I didn't. I clearly said in my earlier post:

"Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you."

That means people need to pray about it.

 

[Ms.Honey]

I know very well that this is a public forum, and I'm alway careful about what I say, and my attitude on it. You seem to get upset when people are not agreeing with you. Surely we're entitled to have our own opinions? I'd like to express mine, just as you express yours without having anyone jump on me for having a different opinion. I'm not attacking you, so don't attack me.

I don't care if people agree with me or not but it irks me when folks act like praying is not necessary. We make mistakes, we are not inerrant.
Yes, I express my opinion and you express yours but they are OUR opinions and they differ. You are expressing your opinion just as unyieldingly as I am expressing mine but because mine are opposite it's judging right? Whatever

 

[Ms.Honey]

Who said people shouldn't pray? I didn't. I clearly said in my earlier post:

"Let each person pray on it and seek GOD. Move as His Spirit convicts you."

That means people need to pray about it.

I didn't say YOU said don't pray but you made this a personal attack on you WHEN I wasn't addressing you in the first place and made it clear who I was talking to. "Ladies who said they have prayed on it".