Does more heat really help "train" your hair and loosen the curl pattern?

[IndianAngel22]

My sister and I both transitioned to natural, but she's been at it for more years than I have. She says that her hair used to be just as curly as mine, but from the use of deep conditioning weekly, and straightening her hair with heat she says she has trained her hair to have a looser curl pattern. When she washes her hair now it's just kindof loose curls instead of the tight ones I have now. I noticed that the hair I left out at the top of my hair when I had weaves stays pretty loose when I do my hair now. If I continue to deep condition with heat and straighten my hair with it really start to 'train" my curl pattern to be looser?

 

[Neith]

It's not th deep conditioning that's doing that to her hair... it's direct heat on dry hair.

It's a form of damage, with a break down of keratin in the hair similar to what a relaxer does.

My mother used to have "trained" hair when she got really hard press and curls. She lost all of her natural curls except for at the newgrowth.

It's not a good thing

Your hair should REVERT after wetting it at all times or it is heat damaged.

I wouldn't mess around with heat damage, you don't have any control over it.

If I wanted looser curls, I would texturize... You can control the degree of curliness much better and you don't always have to scorch your hair. Imo over time your hair will be healthier.

 

[IndianAngel22]

Well her hair is really healthy. She's been transitioning for YEARS and it's bouncy shiny full and very healthy, no split ends. She gets regular trims and I've seen her hair when wet and when dry. It really has just loosened up a little but it doesn't seem anything like damaged hair. It is very thick and beautiful.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

It's not th deep conditioning that's doing that to her hair... it's direct heat on dry hair.

It's a form of damage, with a break down of keratin in the hair similar to what a relaxer does.

My mother used to have "trained" hair when she got really hard press and curls. She lost all of her natural curls except for at the newgrowth.

It's not a good thing

Your hair should REVERT after wetting it at all times or it is heat damaged.

I wouldn't mess around with heat damage, you don't have any control over it.

If I wanted looser curls, I would texturize... You can control the degree of curliness much better and you don't always have to scorch your hair. Imo over time your hair will be healthier.

I agree with the theory of heat damage. You could texturize or if you don't want to use chemicals, do a search on hear for lime and coconut milk. Supposedly it is a natural relaxant to hair. Some people use buttermilk or even sour cream instead of coconut milk though.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Well her hair is really healthy. She's been transitioning for YEARS and it's bouncy shiny full and very healthy, no split ends. She gets regular trims and I've seen her hair when wet and when dry. It really has just loosened up a little but it doesn't seem anything like damaged hair. It is very thick and beautiful.

What's her length like compared to yours? The longer it gets, the more weight is pulling down and that can actually make the curl pattern appear looser, especially when it is wet.

 

[IndianAngel22]

What's her length like compared to yours? The longer it gets, the more weight is pulling down and that can actually make the curl pattern appear looser, especially when it is wet.

Her hair is just as short as mine, if not shorter! She has a cute little shoulder length cut so it's definately not the length of her hair that's weighing it down.

 

[IndianAngel22]

I agree with the theory of heat damage. You could texturize or if you don't want to use chemicals, do a search on hear for lime and coconut milk. Supposedly it is a natural relaxant to hair. Some people use buttermilk or even sour cream instead of coconut milk though.

I do want to "texturize" the hair but I don't want to use chemicals. I'm scared of making my hair weak because that's why I transitioned. I like weaves and my hair could not take weave and relaxer at the same time. My hair's never been healthier but I hate how curly it is. I just wish it was looser. Will the Coconut Lime milk really loosen it without damaging my hair? Where do I get this stuff I will do it ASAP!

 

[Neith]

The coconut and lime mix is pretty easy and cheap to make yourself Why not do a search for it?

Also, look into loosening the curl with baking soda. A few women have gotten great results from that as well.

I hope I didn't offend by saying that your sister's hair is heat damaged. It may be healthy, but the cause of the loosening the curl IS damage. Even if it is controlled damage. The same could be said for my own texturized hair. I just feel that heat damage is harder to keep in check than getting a texturzer.

 

[LeopardLover77]

It's not th deep conditioning that's doing that to her hair... it's direct heat on dry hair.

It's a form of damage, with a break down of keratin in the hair similar to what a relaxer does.

My mother used to have "trained" hair when she got really hard press and curls. She lost all of her natural curls except for at the newgrowth.

It's not a good thing

Your hair should REVERT after wetting it at all times or it is heat damaged.

I wouldn't mess around with heat damage, you don't have any control over it.

If I wanted looser curls, I would texturize... You can control the degree of curliness much better and you don't always have to scorch your hair. Imo over time your hair will be healthier.

I have to disagree.

I'm thinking of going completely natural and I want exactly what you want OP.

I have a friend who has "trained" her natural hair from doing presses regularly. It is healthy BSL-length hair. It's the longest that her hair has ever been. When her hair was relaxed she said it would always break off at a certain point (near shoulder-length) and she would end up having thin ends that would need to be trimmed. So therefore, she never really got past shoulder length while it was relaxed. Now she has some of the thickest ends I've ever seen.

I hate to hear people say that if natural hair is "trained" that it's SO damaged. In my opinion, it seems that relaxers do more damage especially if they're done carelessly. I mean, come on, putting strong-as-hell chemicals like lye on the hair can't be any better than natural hair that is trained with heat. I've seen people with hair that is relaxed bone straight AND they use heat regularly and their hair looks a hot mess. Having a caustic chemical texturizer or relaxer PLUS using heat CANT possibly be better than non-relaxed, heat-trained hair.

From what I've seen with my own eyes, I believe that natural hair can be heat "trained" and be as healthy as ever.

 

[Neith]

I have to disagree.

I'm thinking of going completely natural and I want exactly what you want OP.

I have a friend who has "trained" her natural hair from doing presses regularly. It is healthy BSL-length hair. It's the longest that her hair has ever been. When her hair was relaxed she said it would always break off at a certain point (near shoulder-length) and she would end up having thin ends that would need to be trimmed. So therefore, she never really got past shoulder length while it was relaxed. Now she has some of the thickest ends I've ever seen.

I hate to hear people say that if natural hair is "trained" that it's SO damaged. In my opinion, it seems that relaxers do more damage especially if they're done carelessly. I mean, come on, putting strong-as-hell chemicals like lye on the hair can't be any better than natural hair that is trained with heat. I've seen people with hair that is relaxed bone straight AND they use heat regularly and their hair looks a hot mess. Having a caustic chemical texturizer or relaxer PLUS using heat CANT possibly be better than non-relaxed, heat-trained hair.

From what I've seen with my own eyes, I believe that natural hair can be heat "trained" and be as healthy as ever.

This thread doesn't have that many replies, did you actually read all of them before you replied? Scroll down a little bit and read my second reply. I clarified and said that trained hair can be healthy.

I'd also like to point out that there really is not much of a difference in the damage cause by relaxers vs. damage caused by heat. They both loosen the curls in the same way - the breakdown of keratin.

Personally I feel that using a relaxer/texturizer gives more control than repeatedly pressing the hair flat with intense heat. The texture is more likely to be uneven because you can't really predict how the heat will affect the hair every time. The ends are more likely to be in bad condition from straightening with high heat over and over.

 

[LeopardLover77]

Yes, I read all of the posts before replying. I just don't agree with all this heat-damage talk. So that's what my last post was based upon.... and since you wrote it, I just quoted your post. -- But not to lash out at you personally.

This is not towards you Neith, but just in general, I'd also like to add that I feel that the word damage is such a harsh word to use while describing the effects of something on the hair. That's why I feel that many people won't agree on this whole natural/relaxer thing. Cuz when you say "damaged", people automatically think of damage in a literal sense. Why does it have to be called a "form of damage"? I'd say it's more like "restructuring of the bonds" in the hair whether it's done by relaxing or heat-stretching. In an older thread I felt it should be called heat-stretching (for healthy, regular-pressed hair that has lost its curl pattern).

And texturizing does not guarantee a more consistent pattern either in my opinion

 

[Neroli]

IMHO, heat used to straighten repeatedly over time will *weaken* hair strands and eventually cause damage. It may not be apparent to the naked eye (and if not, who cares?!!) but in the long run, if aiming for long, healthy hair, repeated heat use, however controlled, however carefult, whatever protectants, will damage hair. THIS IS MY HUMBLE OPINION that I know is not shared by everyone.

I find it interesting that she has been transitioning for years, yet her hair is shoulder length.

--does she cut regularly? if so, that my explain why the damage is not apparent, it's getting cut off

--is she trying to grow her hair long? if so, the repeated heat to straighten my impede her progress (and yours, if you want to long, healthy hair)

Well her hair is really healthy. She's been transitioning for YEARS and it's bouncy shiny full and very healthy, no split ends. She gets regular trims and I've seen her hair when wet and when dry. It really has just loosened up a little but it doesn't seem anything like damaged hair. It is very thick and beautiful.

Her hair is just as short as mine, if not shorter! She has a cute little shoulder length cut so it's definately not the length of her hair that's weighing it down.

 

[dicapr]

Trained hair is only considered damage if you do not want loose your curl pattern. If someone wants a looser texture without chemicals, training your hair with heat is a viable option. My aunt had butt lenght heat trained hair. She took care of it, wore protective styles,ect and she was able to grow and retain hair. Everything can damage your hair, even combing and brushing. I am not training my hair, but if I ever decide that I want to wear straight styles, I rather "damage" my hair than risk damaging my scalp with relaxers.

 

[Bint Yusef]

Oh please, if your hair doesnt do what it was DESIGNED to do(permanently) then its damaged. It is what it is. Why do folks have to candy coat what they are doing to their hair and make it sound better than what it is? There is nothing wrong with wanting to heat train your hair if that is what you want to do, but trying to act like it isnt damage is a farce.

 

[Silver]

I agree with flygirl05 that people do not like to use the word damaged. But I do believe it is damage. I don't think that relaxers are too bad, the damage can be kept to a minimum. Relaxers are suppose to restructurize/remove sulfur bonds removing the curl pattern. Heat though will actually melt/burn hair/keratin. My hair is heat damaged, I have been natural most of my life and straightened the front of my hair everyday for a year when I was in highschool. And then when I started wearing weaves I straightened the front everyday. I wore protective styles everyday, so why no growth? It was the heat. The hair on the front of my hair stopped curling and was "trained" would break when I touched it. I am struggling to grow out that part now. But after I stopped using so much heat I finally got to see my curl pattern on my whole head. A girl (white) at Sephora trying to sell me a straightening product even told me that the heat denatured my hair when I was worried that the product was called Phyto relaxing balm, I guess she knew her stuff. My hair is still thick after all the heat damage too, but it breaks like crazy. I wonder how thick it's gonna be when the damage goes away. I see other naturals use heat and their hair prospers, but I think they know how to use it and use it only a few times a month. I still use it too of course, but I know once my pattern starts to go away, it's time to take a break and use protein.

 

[Neith]

Yes, I read all of the posts before replying. I just don't agree with all this heat-damage talk. So that's what my last post was based upon.... and since you wrote it, I just quoted your post. -- But not to lash out at you personally.

This is not towards you Neith, but just in general, I'd also like to add that I feel that the word damage is such a harsh word to use while describing the effects of something on the hair. That's why I feel that many people won't agree on this whole natural/relaxer thing. Cuz when you say "damaged", people automatically think of damage in a literal sense. Why does it have to be called a "form of damage"? I'd say it's more like "restructuring of the bonds" in the hair whether it's done by relaxing or heat-stretching. In an older thread I felt it should be called heat-stretching (for healthy, regular-pressed hair that has lost its curl pattern).

And texturizing does not guarantee a more consistent pattern either in my opinion

Technically it is damage though

It would be nice to have different terms to describe "damaged on purpose, but healthy" hair and for them to be widely known and used

Texturizing doesn't give even results but I feel that it gives more even results than training. There are less variables.

With heat training, is the hair tool really the same temp every time? Does it touch each section of hair for the same amount of time. Are you lingering too much on some sections or others? Did you linger on the bottom, middle or ends of any particular sections too long or too short? Are you sectioning your hair in the same exact sections every time? I feel that since the straightening affect is more manual than chemical, we have less control of it overall. More of a chance of human error and miscalculation.

Oh please, if your hair doesnt do what it was DESIGNED to do(permanently) then its damaged. It is what it is. Why do folks have to candy coat what they are doing to their hair and make it sound better than what it is? There is nothing wrong with wanting to heat train your hair if that is what you want to do, but trying to act like it isnt damage is a farce.

I agree that relaxing and training are both damaging.

However, your hair can still be healthy as in in grows and retains length, has a good moisture balance, has volume and shine... etc.

When people see the word damage, they usually connect it with split ends, and breaking and dry hair.

I totally get that my hair is damaged, but not damaged

Trained hair is only considered damage if you do not want loose your curl pattern. If someone wants a looser texture without chemicals, training your hair with heat is a viable option. My aunt had butt lenght heat trained hair. She took care of it, wore protective styles,ect and she was able to grow and retain hair. Everything can damage your hair, even combing and brushing. I am not training my hair, but if I ever decide that I want to wear straight styles, I rather "damage" my hair than risk damaging my scalp with relaxers.

Well, looking at my other responses in this post, I do consider it as damage, but I do acknowledge that a person with trained hair can have healthy hair.

Each method has it's own pros and cons... you pick what makes more sense to you. Personally relaxers make more sense to me.

 

[Irresistible]

I do agree that heat trained hair is damaged hair in the sense that the bonds are broken , I do agree the same goes for relaxed hair, I also agree that a better wording could be used for it because it could technically be broken down (the bonds) either by heat or chemical and still prosper and be healthy , so the word damaged and healthy going together here just aint workin together to make sense

heat processed or chemically processed hair can be damaged
but it can also thrive

so I guess before calling it damaged, it should be called processed or somethin like that

 

[plastic]

her hair is trained to be damaged ... that's just my opinion.. But if she cuts it regularly then hey all those spilt ends are gone and good for her !!!

 

[IndianAngel22]

IMHO, heat used to straighten repeatedly over time will *weaken* hair strands and eventually cause damage. It may not be apparent to the naked eye (and if not, who cares?!!) but in the long run, if aiming for long, healthy hair, repeated heat use, however controlled, however carefult, whatever protectants, will damage hair. THIS IS MY HUMBLE OPINION that I know is not shared by everyone.

I find it interesting that she has been transitioning for years, yet her hair is shoulder length.

--does she cut regularly? if so, that my explain why the damage is not apparent, it's getting cut off

--is she trying to grow her hair long? if so, the repeated heat to straighten my impede her progress (and yours, if you want to long, healthy hair)

Her hair is only short because she keeps it that way. Throughout her transition she has had armpit length hair at one time, and then cut if off. For some reason my sister just likes to cut her hair. She's 7 years older than me so she like a more "grown up" look so she says. But I've seen her hair begin to cascade and still look healthy and she just really likes keeping it short. I on the other hand have only been transitioning 2 years and my curl pattern is the way hers began when she started. very Very Tight at the bag, medium tight in the middle, and loose waves at the top. All my relaxed hair has been chopped off.

 

[IndianAngel22]

Technically it is damage though

It would be nice to have different terms to describe "damaged on purpose, but healthy" hair and for them to be widely known and used

Texturizing doesn't give even results but I feel that it gives more even results than training. There are less variables.

With heat training, is the hair tool really the same temp every time? Does it touch each section of hair for the same amount of time. Are you lingering too much on some sections or others? Did you linger on the bottom, middle or ends of any particular sections too long or too short? Are you sectioning your hair in the same exact sections every time? I feel that since the straightening affect is more manual than chemical, we have less control of it overall. More of a chance of human error and miscalculation.




I agree that relaxing and training are both damaging.

However, your hair can still be healthy as in in grows and retains length, has a good moisture balance, has volume and shine... etc.

When people see the word damage, they usually connect it with split ends, and breaking and dry hair.

I totally get that my hair is damaged, but not damaged




Well, looking at my other responses in this post, I do consider it as damage, but I do acknowledge that a person with trained hair can have healthy hair.

Each method has it's own pros and cons... you pick what makes more sense to you. Personally relaxers make more sense to me.

Is your hair texlaxed with chemical?

 

[dicapr]

The term damaged is over used on hair forums. My goodness, combing is damaging, brushing is damaging, using heat, coloring, relaxing. The only way to have damage free hair is to wash condition, and finger comb. But then you have knots and dreds, and removing them causes damage! Like we all have found out, each person's hair can take varying amounts of heat and chemicals before it truly becomes damaged-meaning that it is breaking, spliting, and falling out.

 

[Neroli]

The term damaged is over used on hair forums. My goodness, combing is damaging, brushing is damaging, using heat, coloring, relaxing. The only way to have damage free hair is to wash condition, and finger comb. But then you have knots and dreds, and removing them causes damage! Like we all have found out, each person's hair can take varying amounts of heat and chemicals before it truly becomes damaged-meaning that it is breaking, spliting, and falling out.

Yep, all those things are "damaging" so why not just call it what it is? A rose by any other name is still . . .

 

[LunadeMiel]

Yep, all those things are "damaging" so why not just call it what it is? A rose by any other name is still . . .

:werd:
Also, combing/brushing "can" be damaging if you are using the wrong tools. I really enjoy this forum because ain't nobody going to sugarcoat jack for you. It is what is, whether you want to accept it or not..

 

[Ms Lala]

Yes this is possible and there was a thread on this I"ll try and bump it up for you or post a link. You can grow long hair but once the heat has loosened the curl you would have to grow it out like a relaxer. If I ever decide to go straight again I think I would rather do this than deal w/chemicals again. My hair is pretty coarse so when I pressed regularly my curl pattern never loosened but it got easier to straigthen, I may have had a few straight pieces here and there though so washing and going was out. I guess the biggest down side is that results you get can be pretty inconsistent but if you plan on wearing your hair straight all the time it really isn't an issue. If you prefer wearing straight styles I say go for it but make sure you condition your hair often and baby your ends.

edited: I bumped the thread up , I tried to paste the link below but I'm not sure that I did it right

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=248337

 

[Neith]

So everyone here has damaged hair. Point blank, natural or not, heat or no heat.

Imo it's just oversimplifying things. OF COURSE no one on Earth has hair in absolute perfect condition. That's a no brainer.

TECHNICALLY everyone's hair is damaged in varying degrees.

"Damaged" is usually used when describing breaking, dry, falling out, split, tore up hair.

When we get all technical we refer to damaged hair as hair that's "non-perfect" in any way.

You typically don't look as someone with great hair and a great fotki and say "OMG, your hair is so pretty and damaged!" even if they are relaxed.

It's just not the right word to use sometimes, even if it is true technically.

You know, language is a funny thing, words can mean the same thing and just the wording and circumstances spin a different light on them.

 

[The Savvy Sistah]

The term damaged is over used on hair forums. My goodness, combing is damaging, brushing is damaging, using heat, coloring, relaxing. The only way to have damage free hair is to wash condition, and finger comb. But then you have knots and dreds, and removing them causes damage! Like we all have found out, each person's hair can take varying amounts of heat and chemicals before it truly becomes damaged-meaning that it is breaking, spliting, and falling out.

You were reading my mind! I'm all natural and I have been for 3 years but with all the knots and tangles I have not been able to achieve my full length. (I'm doing better now) In other words natural hair (with no direct heat and no chemicals) can still be damaged.

So if that's the case if you choose to use heat or chemicals, just use it with caution and take care of your hair. Because this forum is proof that we can heat style our natural hair every week or relax it and still have healthy hair.

Knowledge is the key!!!!

 

[Poohbear]

Yes, I read all of the posts before replying. I just don't agree with all this heat-damage talk. So that's what my last post was based upon.... and since you wrote it, I just quoted your post. -- But not to lash out at you personally.

This is not towards you Neith, but just in general, I'd also like to add that I feel that the word damage is such a harsh word to use while describing the effects of something on the hair. That's why I feel that many people won't agree on this whole natural/relaxer thing. Cuz when you say "damaged", people automatically think of damage in a literal sense. Why does it have to be called a "form of damage"? I'd say it's more like "restructuring of the bonds" in the hair whether it's done by relaxing or heat-stretching. In an older thread I felt it should be called heat-stretching (for healthy, regular-pressed hair that has lost its curl pattern).

And texturizing does not guarantee a more consistent pattern either in my opinion

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! I have been thinking the same thing all these years as a member of LHCF about the usage of relaxers and heat. I see ladies with healthy heat straightened natural hair and ladies with long healthy-looking relaxed hair. It really doesn't damage the hair per se, it restructures the hair into a different pattern. I feel like damaged hair is hair that is torn, split, and breaks off excessively. Relaxers and heat can in fact cause damage, but not if you use them properly.

 

[IndianAngel22]

Yes this is possible and there was a thread on this I"ll try and bump it up for you or post a link. You can grow long hair but once the heat has loosened the curl you would have to grow it out like a relaxer. If I ever decide to go straight again I think I would rather do this than deal w/chemicals again. My hair is pretty coarse so when I pressed regularly my curl pattern never loosened but it got easier to straigthen, I may have had a few straight pieces here and there though so washing and going was out. I guess the biggest down side is that results you get can be pretty inconsistent but if you plan on wearing your hair straight all the time it really isn't an issue. If you prefer wearing straight styles I say go for it but make sure you condition your hair often and baby your ends.

edited: I bumped the thread up , I tried to paste the link below but I'm not sure that I did it right

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=248337

thanks for this thread Ms lala!

 

[CenteredGirl]

My belief based on my hair (4ab natural) is that intense heat DC over time does infuse the hair with moisturizing properties thereby making it heavier, ergo, looser pattern. I don't have damaged hair. I have been sitting under a hot dryer, weekly for as long back as almost a year. My cuticles do not show damage. In the last couple of months I have started to DC for 2 hours a week and boy is my hair different in a even better way. My hair loves heat/dc combo.

As far as flat ironing is concerned, I do think that when I flat iron my intensily moisturized hair it pushes that moisture further into the hair cuticle, again making it looser even when wet. I do not flat iron often at all.

I also am a big fan of washing with baking soda and have found that it too loosens and softens hair.

 

[brownsugarflyygirl]

I support heat stretched hair That is all.