Anti-Perm: Am I the only one?

[Mars_Reiko]

this is yet another thread on this board that just saddens me....as someone else said, the divide on this board is way larger than it has to be. why would the OP even start this ish is beyond me.... to ask a forum with so many relaxed heads if anyone else is anti-perm....and then for someone else to dig this out of the gutter years later......

Ditto. What does it matter if a person is "anti-perm" or not. It's just hair. What someone does to theirs should be their business.

 

[camellia]

As previous posters have stated, I had NO idea that this was even an issue before hair boards.

I guess I'm "anti perm"/"anti relaxer" for myself but what another woman wants to do to her hair is completely up to her. I never considered hair anything more than a fashion choice.

 

[JewelleNY]

Ok, maybe I should just stay out of the hair forum but for the life of me I can't understand why we can't have dialogues about hair topics with opposing opinions erplexed For me to say that I think that relaxers are evil is just what it is, my opinion. It does not mean that I am slamming anyone else for choosing to use one. This subject should not divide us, I think it is an important topic and I think the conversation flows smoothly until someone starts saying that people are being mean or that the subject is divisive.
There are soooo many intelligent black women on this board who have so much to offer. How can one expect to learn and grow if you grow through life with just your opinion and ideas without hearing others??? I applaud Navs for defending her beliefs and anyone else who comes here to do so. It does not mean that anyone is right or wrong, we are all here to learn from each other.

 

[JazzyDez]

As previous posters have stated, I had NO idea that this was even an issue before hair boards.

I guess I'm "anti perm"/"anti relaxer" for myself but what another woman wants to do to her hair is completely up to her. I never considered hair anything more than a fashion choice.

thank you!!!!! I never knew the hair issue can be so deeply analyzed (as seen another *cough* thread). It is good reading though. I personally choose to relax because of managebility reasons. I have learned through this board that I can have LONG and HEALTHY relaxed hair. So its staying relaxed for a while. And my "blackness" is not of any less value then anyone elses because of that. It is a fashion choice for me as well.

although this thread is old, I see its potential growth blossoming very quickly I am also quite tickled that this thread was bumped at such a convenient time

 

[envybeauty]

Ok, maybe I should just stay out of the hair forum but for the life of me I can't understand why we can't have dialogues about hair topics with opposing opinions erplexed For me to say that I think that relaxers are evil is just what it is, my opinion. It does not mean that I am slamming anyone else for choosing to use one. This subject should not divide us, I think it is an important topic and I think the conversation flows smoothly until someone starts saying that people are being mean or that the subject is divisive.
There are soooo many intelligent black women on this board who have so much to offer. How can one expect to learn and grow if you grow through life with just your opinion and ideas without hearing others??? I applaud Navs for defending her beliefs and anyone else who comes here to do so. It does not mean that anyone is right or wrong, we are all here to learn from each other.

I find nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions. I do it all day every day on-line and off.

I just find that to ask the very question that was asked in the original title as analagous to a KKK member going to blackplanet.com and asking if there are others on there who don't like black people. People can do that all day long, but then some do and wonder why they get the responses that they do.

If you see nothing wrong with the question that was asked, then you should find nothing wrong with others stating that such questions make them feel divided from others on here. All are entitled to state what they feel albeit the OP or responders.

 

[Bunny77]

Ok wait, wait, wait...

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't take this thread at all the way others did, and probably because I see MuseofTroy's avatar shows that she has straightened hair.

Of course we need to ask her, but maybe she meant that using a perm for straightening was worse than the old-school style of pressing... again, since the OP does have straight hair, I don't think she was saying that "straightening" was evil, but that she was taught that perms/relaxers were evil because they damaged the hair.

Back when relaxers first came out, they were a lot more damaging than they are today and I have heard plenty of stories from women who got relaxers in the 60s and 70s who say that they took ALL of their hair out... so Muse's aunt might be working from that experience.

In my family for example, no one relaxes, but they all have straight hair. They just use pressing combs and flat irons. Now we've all had relaxers at some point in our lives, but we've discovered that our hair collectively doesn't do well with even the mildest relaxers and the best conditioners to protect against damage. So my cousins went back to pressing and so did my mom. My aunt and grandma never relaxed, they just pressed or got roller sets. I was the rebel and went natural.

To this day, the women in my family will speak badly about perms, but they still straighten. They're not speaking about the practice of straightening, but the actual perm/relaxer itself. People will even say that they have "nice hair" because they don't perm it, but press it instead, which supposedly damages the hair less and keeps the thickness and volume (that's the perception anyway... it's true for my family, at least)

When I read Muse's post and saw that her aunt was making the comment, I figured that's what she meant since a lot of older people don't like relaxers based on their experiences.

I honestly don't think that she was trying to do a relaxed vs. natural thing... again, she has straightened hair!

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Enchantmt]

Should the parents' will win if they pay out of their pockets for a child to get a relaxer (whether salon, box perm, home, or wherever) and she adamantly doesn't want one? What if the situation had been reversed and my folks had paid for me to get a relaxer at the salon and I somehow coaxed the beautician into washing and pressing instead because it's what I wanted personally?

Note: Since the beautician said she realized it's not what my folks originally wanted, she didn't charge them extra for the relaxer; she charged them the price for a wash and press.

She should have done what ever service your PARENTS requested and are paying her to provide, relaxer, press whatever.

 

[JewelleNY]

I find nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions. I do it all day every day on-line and off.

I just find that to ask the very question that was asked in the original title as analagous to a KKK member going to blackplanet.com and asking if there are others on there who don't like black people. People can do that all day long, but then some do and wonder why they get the responses that they do.

If you see nothing wrong with the question that was asked, then you should find nothing wrong with others stating that such questions make them feel divided from others on here. All are entitled to state what they feel albeit the OP or responders.

Actually, I find that people who come in to complain about the actual content of the thread itself tend to throw the actual topic off from it's original intent. If I don't like a particular topic or thread I just avoid it. If I have an opinion about the topic that I want to contribute than I will do so. But to just come in and complain about the OP just throws the whole thread on a tangent which is happening now.

 

[Enchantmt]

Ok wait, wait, wait...

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't take this thread at all the way others did, and probably because I see MuseofTroy's avatar shows that she has straightened hair.

Of course we need to ask her, but maybe she meant that using a perm for straightening was worse than the old-school style of pressing... again, since the OP does have straight hair, I don't think she was saying that "straightening" was evil, but that she was taught that perms/relaxers were evil because they damaged the hair.

Back when relaxers first came out, they were a lot more damaging than they are today and I have heard plenty of stories from women who got relaxers in the 60s and 70s who say that they took ALL of their hair out... so Muse's aunt might be working from that experience.

In my family for example, no one relaxes, but they all have straight hair. They just use pressing combs and flat irons. Now we've all had relaxers at some point in our lives, but we've discovered that our hair collectively doesn't do well with even the mildest relaxers and the best conditioners to protect against damage. So my cousins went back to pressing and so did my mom. My aunt and grandma never relaxed, they just pressed or got roller sets. I was the rebel and went natural.

To this day, the women in my family will speak badly about perms, but they still straighten. They're not speaking about the practice of straightening, but the actual perm/relaxer itself. People will even say that they have "nice hair" because they don't perm it, but press it instead, which supposedly damages the hair less and keeps the thickness and volume (that's the perception anyway... it's true for my family, at least)

When I read Muse's post and saw that her aunt was making the comment, I figured that's what she meant since a lot of older people don't like relaxers based on their experiences.

I honestly don't think that she was trying to do a relaxed vs. natural thing... again, she has straightened hair!

Just my 2 cents!

Hopefully this post will put the thread back on topic, if not it will be locked. Not everyone who posts a topic like this does so with the intent of sowing discord. For me its just another symtom of underlying issues some say dont exist butsomehow keep popping up anyway.

 

[Enchantmt]

Ok wait, wait, wait...

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't take this thread at all the way others did, and probably because I see MuseofTroy's avatar shows that she has straightened hair.

Of course we need to ask her, but maybe she meant that using a perm for straightening was worse than the old-school style of pressing... again, since the OP does have straight hair, I don't think she was saying that "straightening" was evil, but that she was taught that perms/relaxers were evil because they damaged the hair.

Back when relaxers first came out, they were a lot more damaging than they are today and I have heard plenty of stories from women who got relaxers in the 60s and 70s who say that they took ALL of their hair out... so Muse's aunt might be working from that experience.

In my family for example, no one relaxes, but they all have straight hair. They just use pressing combs and flat irons. Now we've all had relaxers at some point in our lives, but we've discovered that our hair collectively doesn't do well with even the mildest relaxers and the best conditioners to protect against damage. So my cousins went back to pressing and so did my mom. My aunt and grandma never relaxed, they just pressed or got roller sets. I was the rebel and went natural.

To this day, the women in my family will speak badly about perms, but they still straighten. They're not speaking about the practice of straightening, but the actual perm/relaxer itself. People will even say that they have "nice hair" because they don't perm it, but press it instead, which supposedly damages the hair less and keeps the thickness and volume (that's the perception anyway... it's true for my family, at least)

When I read Muse's post and saw that her aunt was making the comment, I figured that's what she meant since a lot of older people don't like relaxers based on their experiences.

I honestly don't think that she was trying to do a relaxed vs. natural thing... again, she has straightened hair!

Just my 2 cents!

Hopefully this post will put the thread back on topic, if not it will be locked. Not everyone who posts a topic like this does so with the intent of sowing discord. For me its just another symtom of underlying issues some say dont exist but somehow keep popping up anyway.

 

[JewelleNY]

Ok wait, wait, wait...

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't take this thread at all the way others did, and probably because I see MuseofTroy's avatar shows that she has straightened hair.

Of course we need to ask her, but maybe she meant that using a perm for straightening was worse than the old-school style of pressing... again, since the OP does have straight hair, I don't think she was saying that "straightening" was evil, but that she was taught that perms/relaxers were evil because they damaged the hair.

Back when relaxers first came out, they were a lot more damaging than they are today and I have heard plenty of stories from women who got relaxers in the 60s and 70s who say that they took ALL of their hair out... so Muse's aunt might be working from that experience.

In my family for example, no one relaxes, but they all have straight hair. They just use pressing combs and flat irons. Now we've all had relaxers at some point in our lives, but we've discovered that our hair collectively doesn't do well with even the mildest relaxers and the best conditioners to protect against damage. So my cousins went back to pressing and so did my mom. My aunt and grandma never relaxed, they just pressed or got roller sets. I was the rebel and went natural.

To this day, the women in my family will speak badly about perms, but they still straighten. They're not speaking about the practice of straightening, but the actual perm/relaxer itself. People will even say that they have "nice hair" because they don't perm it, but press it instead, which supposedly damages the hair less and keeps the thickness and volume (that's the perception anyway... it's true for my family, at least)

When I read Muse's post and saw that her aunt was making the comment, I figured that's what she meant since a lot of older people don't like relaxers based on their experiences.

I honestly don't think that she was trying to do a relaxed vs. natural thing... again, she has straightened hair!

Just my 2 cents!

I agree Bunny, when I stated personally that I feel relaxers are evil, it is because of the damage that they have done to my scalp. I literally cussed out several stylists when I was younger when the burn went so deep that I felt my whole head was on fire, literally What people do as far as straightening or not is up to them, it does not change the fact that I think relaxers are evil, yes, even the kiddie perms

 

[envybeauty]

Actually, I find that people who come in to complain about the actual content of the thread itself tend to throw the actual topic off from it's original intent. If I don't like a particular topic or thread I just avoid it. If I have an opinion about the topic that I want to contribute than I will do so. But to just come in and complain about the OP just throws the whole thread on a tangent which is happening now.

That is part of the discussion on any forum: to question the intent behind the question. I question not the OP, but her INTENT to pose such a question to THIS audience. I also question the intent of the person who dug this three-year old topic out of the gutter at THIS particular time. Such is public discourse......

 

[navsegda]

She should have done what ever service your PARENTS requested and are paying her to provide, relaxer, press whatever.

Thank you for giving me the unbiased answer. It's always good when people can see things from both sides of the fence and when they won't waver when the situation is flipped.

You're a good mod. I wish ALL of the mods at myspace were as nice HAHAHA.

*note to self: check on the customizing forum at myspace*

 

[LocksOfLuV]

Actually, I find that people who come in to complain about the actual content of the thread itself tend to throw the actual topic off from it's original intent. If I don't like a particular topic or thread I just avoid it. If I have an opinion about the topic that I want to contribute than I will do so. But to just come in and complain about the OP just throws the whole thread on a tangent which is happening now.

It's okay to come into a thread that you disagree with (as long as you aren't downing anyone). It's all part of having an opinion.

 

[WomanlyCharm]

To answer the OP's question:

No, I don't think perms are evil.

I believe a person who takes another human life is evil.
I believe anyone who tortures a defenseless animal is evil.
I believe starting a war, not to help others, but for money and power is evil.

But a jar containing chemicals that straighten hair? No, that's not evil. Neither is the act of anyone using it on themselves or someone else. That's called choosing to use a product.

And that's what I choose to do. Case closed.

 

[Bunny77]

I agree Bunny, when I stated personally that I feel relaxers are evil, it is because of the damage that they have done to my scalp. I literally cussed out several stylists when I was younger when the burn went so deep that I felt my whole head was on fire, literally What people do as far as straightening or not is up to them, it does not change the fact that I think relaxers are evil, yes, even the kiddie perms

That was my story too! I know that I started getting my hair pressed regularly around age 9 or 10 and my hair was still healthy and thick... then folks told me I should get a relaxer since it was easier and would last longer through swimming, sweating, etc.... so about 3 years later I did.

My hair looked beautiful for the first year, and then little by little, it started to break off and I got scalp burns and all of that mess. The hair that had once hung below my shoulders broke up to a Cleopatra-length bob.

Now, maybe if I'd had better conditioners (like I do now... them stylists used crap from the BSS) and stretched relaxers to 3 months, I might have been okay. But I know that for me, relaxers were evil. Before I went totally natural, I went back to the pressing comb and my hair was once again thick and shiny and not prone to breakage.

But even still, I noticed that most stylists don't want to style my natural hair straight since I'm not relaxed... saying a press is too much work. Or they wanna flat iron it, which won't work on my hair since it's not trained right now to be straight. Another said that if I wanted to just press it all the time, I should just go back to the relaxer since it's the same thing... for me, it totally was not!!!!

Shoot, the next time I want it straight, I'll just go to a Dominican salon since I can't even pay folks to straighten it for me!

Sorry, got off on a tangent there.

 

[Bunny77]

That is part of the discussion on any forum: to question the intent behind the question. I question not the OP, but her INTENT to pose such a question to THIS audience. I also question the intent of the person who dug this three-year old topic out of the gutter at THIS particular time. Such is public discourse......

Now I do question the intent behind someone digging it up. That's pretty odd.

But I think we should give the OP the chance to explain herself because I don't think she was trying to put down straightening, but the relaxer product itself because she was taught it destroys hair. Maybe I'm wrong too, but let's see what she says.

 

[navsegda]

To answer the OP's question:

No, I don't think perms are evil.

I believe a person who takes another human life is evil.
I believe anyone who tortures a defenseless animal is evil.
I believe starting a war, not to help others, but for money and power is evil.

But a jar containing chemicals that straighten hair? No, that's not evil. Neither is the act of anyone using it on themselves or someone else. That's called choosing to use a product.

And that's what I choose to do. Case closed.

Well said Womanly!

 

[envybeauty]

I don't really think the OP should have to explain herself today per se because she stated her question like 3 years ago. Who would want to explain TODAY what they thought THREE years ago!??!?!?

 

[SparklingFlame]

Why has this thread being bumped up concidered "at a convienient time"? Have I missed something? Clue me in!

 

[blazingthru]

If I never found this board making a choice for my child to be natural or permed would not have been a struggle for me. I would not even consider it. I permed my daughters hair at I would say 8 or 9. I got tired of her crying when I did her hair. I thought it would be easier for her and me. My youngest daughter has a lot of scalp problems, I hesitated to perm her hair and so I waited until she was 10, and put a perm and grew that one perm out and never put one back in there, actually, it wasn't in long enough to be considered a perm more like texturizer. She wants a perm but she can never have one. Her scalp is sensitive like mine and no perms for her. I did not like the end results of the texturizer and so I told her she can not wear a perm. But I was not thinking that her hair was natural, weird I know, I was just thinking I have to come up with ways to deal with her hair like this. I did not think about natural until here. Until I found this board and I wanted both my daughters to go natural with me. My youngest daughter hair textures is more like the indian texture of my son. She doesn't really get "naps" but it gets difficult to comb. She has a strong wave pattern like i have at the back of my head and so its not hard for her but she wants her hair straight, thats when I decided that she will not get a perm in her hair anymore. Thats when I decided that I had a choice. I did not get a perm until I was 14 almost 15. Never even knew about them. Never heard of them either. 1978 the fro was going out of style and straight hair was back in and so I straighten my hair but never knew anyone that had a perm or even wanted one. I do remember in 1979 my mother got one. My mothers hair is very wavey and straight and long. She does not need a relaxer or need to get her hair straighten. She wears it cut close to her scalp. Why don't know! Anyway she came home with these tight curls and it looked a mess and that was all I knew about perms --don't get one.

 

[isobell]

I really don't see what the original poster wrote to cause the amount of suspicion being thrown her way. She told of her own experience, what her mother had taught her and asked a question, for commentary about what made people choose a relaxer. She said nothing about it making one less black etc nor did she seem militant...I think a lot of it is that people hate to have their decisions questioned...this is not a militant pro or anti relaxer forum, people can ask questions without sinister ulterior motives...or maybe i'm just naive to take things at face value...

i had a relaxer because it never occured to me not to, everyone else around me at the time had one as well, the first time i saw a girl with a BAA on the bus in college i was in awe and i wanted to emulate that so i chopped all my hair off and grew out an afro. Over the years I've gone back and forth to the relaxer depending on what my particular aesthetic at the time was. The older I get the more research I do about what I put on and in my body so now when I do a chemical service i make sure to know how to use it safely and still have my hair thrive...relaxers are not inherently evil as long as we know how not to abuse them.

 

[Jaizee]

Ok, maybe I should just stay out of the hair forum but for the life of me I can't understand why we can't have dialogues about hair topics with opposing opinions erplexed For me to say that I think that relaxers are evil is just what it is, my opinion. It does not mean that I am slamming anyone else for choosing to use one. This subject should not divide us, I think it is an important topic and I think the conversation flows smoothly until someone starts saying that people are being mean or that the subject is divisive.
There are soooo many intelligent black women on this board who have so much to offer. How can one expect to learn and grow if you grow through life with just your opinion and ideas without hearing others??? I applaud Navs for defending her beliefs and anyone else who comes here to do so. It does not mean that anyone is right or wrong, we are all here to learn from each other.

I really like this post. I agree with what you said!

 

[sylver2]

 

[envybeauty]

 

[LizLeila]

No, Deutsch is the German word for the German language. If you were learning German then maybe we could've practiced together sometime. I haven't learned any Dutch yet, but when I do, expect a PM. We can chat

Hi Thursday,

If you need someone to practice German with, let me know.


ETA: I just scrolled up to read the rest of the responses. Let me get the hell out of here.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

thank you!!!!! I never knew the hair issue can be so deeply analyzed (as seen another *cough* thread). It is good reading though. I personally choose to relax because of managebility reasons. I have learned through this board that I can have LONG and HEALTHY relaxed hair. So its staying relaxed for a while. And my "blackness" is not of any less value then anyone elses because of that. It is a fashion choice for me as well.

although this thread is old, I see its potential growth blossoming very quickly I am also quite tickled that this thread was bumped at such a convenient time

I'm not sure what that refers to . The thread was bumped because Muse of Troy has BEAUTIFUL hair that just happens to not be permed (I think). Some of us just wanted to hear about her regime. Maybe it would've been better to just start a new thread though. There was no malicious intent by the bump that I can discern. I am interested in Muse of Troy's regime as well.

 

[missann]

I think the "convenient time" comment refers to another recent thread lamenting the difficulty of our hair and its care.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Well, just MY opinion, but Muse you say that your mom had 3c/4a hair down her back?? How lucky for her. She didn't really need a perm. However. Not all hair is so manageable. I for one have 4/b hair that I fight with. It's not strong enough for a perm, but if it was I would be at the salon in a minute. This is just me, but your post sounded slightly "superior" to me. Sorry if I am taking it wrongly.

I am not anti perm. I just recognize that for me personally, it is a very questionable option because of the baby fine texture. That is why I Personally say no to a perm for me. It might melt off my head and then what would I do? I would not want to put one in anyone's hair just in case something did not work for their specific hair and they would want to kill me or sue me or call my name forever, lol. I have no problem with other people's personal choices, however. bonjour

 

[WomanlyCharm]

I think the "convenient time" comment refers to another recent thread lamenting the difficulty of our hair and its care.

That's what this is all about...

BTW, Missann...that's what my mom calls me when I'm in trouble, lol!