Anti-Perm: Am I the only one?

[PaperClip]

I didn't read all of the posts, but here are a couple of things I know for sure....

1. I don't think anybody NEEDS a relaxer, regardless of the hair texture. It is one of several options. It is a choice. It is a preference, but not a NECESSITY. That's where I think a big part of the "debate" is....

2. I think there should be a law against relaxing a child's head under a certain age for medical as well as social reasons. My first relaxer was at 7-8 years old and I kept getting relaxers out of habit and INDOCTRINATION for more than 20-25 years.

3. Being on this board has "softened" me a bit toward relaxing. I personally do not plan to relax my hair again and I strongly advocate that relaxing should be a personal choice. In other words, a girl should be of "consenting age" before she gets a relaxer.

4. I think parents should be more informed about relaxing hair for their children, and subsequently they would also benefit from such information. Unfortunately, some parents are lazy. And ALL parents are only capable of doing and repeating what was done to them. The cycle has to be broken with information and more importantly, COURAGE

 

[firecracker]

Perm or press & curl on the regular Its still altering your natural hair patten unless your naturally super duper straight. I don't get the difference erplexed Too much heat is damaging to some just as perm is damaging to some.

 

[navsegda]

I obviously am not anti-perm lol, but I definitely think it is a choice (unless your parents force you to have one as a little girl). Growing up, my situation was a little strange. None of the women in my family had relaxers and none of them ever wanted me to get one, even when I'd ask. When I asked, the answer was NO, even though I had made a choice that that's what I wanted when I was older. I actually got my relaxer by "accident," ok, not really by "accident" since I kinda "snuck" and got one. My mom and great aunt had sent me to the beauty salon when I was 13 1/2 (right before 8th grade started) to get my hair washed and pressed. That's all. My great aunt stayed at the salon with me. Well, my great aunt was like in her late 70's or early 80's and I don't think she actually knew exactly what was going on or was paying much attention to what the beautician was doing but I knew exactly what was going on. The beautician based my scalp and put a protective treatment on my hair. I saw her reach for the relaxer cream. Inside I said, "Yes, yes." I watched as she began applying it to my hair, personally dancing inside myself because I was finally getting what I wanted. After she had washed out the relaxer and I saw my hair, I was sooooooooooooo freaking happy I wanted to hug her.

My beautician apologized to my mother and great aunt because she said she "misunderstood" what they wanted her to do. I don't know if that is truthful and I definitely could have spoken up to prevent her from relaxing, but the thing is I didn't WANT to stop her because I WANTED the relaxer all along. My family adjusted to it, though, so that's good. I'm lucky my butt didn't get torn up.

It seems like 8th grade was a liberating year for me. My family was very strict on me and my mother wouldn't even let me get my EARS pierced until I was 14 after I begged and begged. Wearing the clipons HURTS after awhile and is just plain annoying. We were in the mall and I wanted to get them done and my mom's friend told her "Girl, you mean this child doesn't have her ears pierced? Go ahead and let her do what she wants." And thus, they got pierced. Now, I'm not an earring fanatic, I just wanted them done, and I almost never change my earrings. The same pair of earrings I have in right now and wear all the time is the pair I first got when I got my ears pierced at 14.

I am glad I got my relaxer and I have never looked back. I had much time to experience my natural hair (I was natural longer than I've currently been relaxed) and I never grew up (like I said, all the women in my family were naturals because they never liked relaxers and my mother's sister even had an afro and still does to this day) thinking that natural hair was not beautiful (in fact it was the contrary). But this is a personal choice I made for myself and I love it.

 

[PaperClip]

I obviously am not anti-perm lol, but I definitely think it is a choice (unless your parents force you to have one as a little girl). Growing up, my situation was a little strange. None of the women in my family had relaxers and none of them ever wanted me to get one, even when I'd ask. When I asked, the answer was NO, even though I had made a choice that that's what I wanted when I was older. I actually got my relaxer by "accident," ok, not really by "accident" since I kinda "snuck" and got one. My mom and great aunt had sent me to the beauty salon when I was 13 1/2 (right before 8th grade started) to get my hair washed and pressed. That's all. My great aunt stayed at the salon with me. Well, my great aunt was like in her late 70's or early 80's and I don't think she actually knew exactly what was going on or was paying much attention to what the beautician was doing but I knew exactly what was going on. The beautician based my scalp and put a protective treatment on my hair. I saw her reach for the relaxer cream. Inside I said, "Yes, yes." I watched as she began applying it to my hair, personally dancing inside myself because I was finally getting what I wanted. After she had washed out the relaxer and I saw my hair, I was sooooooooooooo freaking happy I wanted to hug her.

My beautician apologized to my mother and great aunt because she said she "misunderstood" what they wanted her to do. I don't know if that is truthful and I definitely could have spoken up to prevent her from relaxing, but the thing is I didn't WANT to stop her because I WANTED the relaxer all along. My family adjusted to it, though, so that's good. I'm lucky my butt didn't get torn up.

It seems like 8th grade was a liberating year for me. My family was very strict on me and my mother wouldn't even let me get my EARS pierced until I was 14 after I begged and begged. Wearing the clipons HURTS after awhile and is just plain annoying. We were in the mall and I wanted to get them done and my mom's friend told her "Girl, you mean this child doesn't have her ears pierced? Go ahead and let her do what she wants." And thus, they got pierced. Now, I'm not an earring fanatic, I just wanted them done, and I almost never change my earrings. The same pair of earrings I have in right now and wear all the time is the pair I first got when I got my ears pierced at 14.

I am glad I got my relaxer and I have never looked back. I had much time to experience my natural hair (I was natural longer than I've currently been relaxed) and I never grew up (like I said, all the women in my family were naturals because they never liked relaxers and my mother's sister even had an afro and still does to this day) thinking that natural hair was not beautiful (in fact it was the contrary). But this is a personal choice I made for myself and I love it.

Criminal charges should have been filed against that beautician. She should have been sued for assault. That might seem over the top, but what if you had had an allergic reaction? Or your hair had fallen out? That is not ok and you know what? I don't blame your 13-year-old self because clearly you were not at a reasonable age of consent if you had to "sneak" to get it done. That's a very dangerous pattern of behavior on the part of that beautician. You don't do that kind of thing to somebody's child.

And another thing: you say you have had much time to experience your natural hair.... Well... ok... I'll just stop here.... (Sigh).

 

[firecracker]

I got my first relaxer in high school but I was pressed and curled bi weekly since elementary. I had burn marks on my ear, neck etc from ducking and dodging that straightening comb/heat all the time. That could still happen whenever I or anyone uses heat appliances to my hair if they are not careful.

I have only had one occasion while relaxed where I was burned or rather that skank Ester didn't rinse all the relaxer outta this bush. That was in 01 at a Domincian Salon in the Bronx. My hair was still ok and I suffered no hair loss or damage but I was pissed.

I never saw perm as a bad thing because I never had a bad experience with it. I do think that perm does penetrate the scalp and may have long term effects.

I also so know that many other things have the same or worst effects ie the air, processed food, microwaved food, second hand smoke, prescripition meds, hair dye, poor diet, not exercising, obesity,make up etc.
I think we all choose our personal demons or things we tolerate for whatever reasons. We make choices everyday.

 

[SparklingFlame]

1. I don't think anybody NEEDS a relaxer, regardless of the hair texture. It is one of several options. It is a choice. It is a preference, but not a NECESSITY. That's where I think a big part of the "debate" is....

2. I think there should be a law against relaxing a child's head under a certain age for medical as well as social reasons. My first relaxer was at 7-8 years old and I kept getting relaxers out of habit and INDOCTRINATION for more than 20-25 years.

3. Being on this board has "softened" me a bit toward relaxing. I personally do not plan to relax my hair again and I strongly advocate that relaxing should be a personal choice. In other words, a girl should be of "consenting age" before she gets a relaxer.

4. I think parents should be more informed about relaxing hair for their children, and subsequently they would also benefit from such information. Unfortunately, some parents are lazy. And ALL parents are only capable of doing and repeating what was done to them. The cycle has to be broken with information and more importantly, COURAGE

I especially agree with #2 although I wont say it should be against the law. I think that the child should make thier own decisions about wheather or not to get a relaxer.

I know I was relaxed at age 4 and it was all I had ever known. I wish that I had the choice to relax or not. I am not going to perm my 2 daughters hair until they are 18 and they ask me to.

 

[navsegda]

Criminal charges should have been filed against that beautician. She should have been sued for assault. That might seem over the top, but what if you had had an allergic reaction? Or your hair had fallen out? That is not ok and you know what? I don't blame your 13-year-old self because clearly you were not at a reasonable age of consent if you had to "sneak" to get it done. That's a very dangerous pattern of behavior on the part of that beautician. You don't do that kind of thing to somebody's child.

And another thing: you say you have had much time to experience your natural hair.... Well... ok... I'll just stop here.... (Sigh).

I say this because I have always been well-educated and well-rounded. I saw that natural hair was not a "disease" or ugly or anything negative (regardless of what other ignorant people outside my family may have said) because I was around it all my life and did think my family members' who had natural hair were beautiful. I just no longer wanted the natural hair for myself and even though I was only 13, I knew what I wanted and my wishes should have been respected by my family. I was not like several other little girls who were relaxed at 7, 8, or younger without understanding their natural texture. When I mean "experience" I mean that it wasn't just something that was sitting on top of my head but I was well aware of what it meant, the history behind it, and what it entailed. I've always been well aware of all parts of my heritage and tried to embrace them all: Black, Deutsch, Spanish, and Native American (Creek and Cherokee). Ok, I actually need to learn more Deutsch but I will get there one day. Some of my ancestors were those who migrated away from Africa (along with many other peoples) and then we got race mixing, yada yada, but back to the subject. I personally do not feel that I need to go back natural because I've never had any type of disrespect for or misunderstanding of natural hair in the first place. I can only speak for myself. I cannot speak for anyone else who may have been always exposed to relaxers all their lives, never got to see their natural hair, and were following some type of pattern or social construct. I believe in tolerance and respect and that is something we all need to do. I do not believe that natural hair is better than relaxed or relaxed is better than natural by itself but depending on each person's choices, I believe one or the other may be better FOR the person according to what she is trying to accomplish personally with her own hair. We cannot say that all women who are natural just want to be political, militant, and make a statement and we cannot say that all women who are now relaxed and never plan on going back haven't had enough time to experience their natural hair or have some type of fear, misunderstanding, or disrespect for it.

 

[jshor09]

i am not anti perm , but am for myself at this time. i gained a great deal of knowledge from this board about relaxing. i decided to go natural because my hair thrived as a child. at 10 my aunt talked me into relaxing my hair without my mother's permission. before that mom alway did my hair or my granny. so i don't think i cared for my own hair until it was relaxed. i really don't think i had the knowledge either. so in 2006 i decided to go natural and did the bc. my hair has thrived . this has been my choice. i feel that relaxed hair can thrive as well as natural, but relaxed was not for me. it did not thrive despite the tips from this board. i now think my hair may have been too fragile for relaxers. i have boys, but if i had a daughter i wouldn't relax her head. she would have to be of a reasonable age(16) and have the info about relaxers before she would be able to relax. again i do think it is about choice and knowledge.

 

[InnerSoul]

I say this because I have always been well-educated and well-rounded. I saw that natural hair was not a "disease" or ugly or anything negative (regardless of what other ignorant people outside my family may have said) because I was around it all my life and did think my family members' who had natural hair were beautiful. I just no longer wanted the natural hair for myself and even though I was only 13, I knew what I wanted and my wishes should have been respected by my family. I was not like several other little girls who were relaxed at 7, 8, or younger without understanding their natural texture. When I mean "experience" I mean that it wasn't just something that was sitting on top of my head but I was well aware of what it meant, the history behind it, and what it entailed. I've always been well aware of all parts of my heritage and tried to embrace them all: Black, Deutsch, Spanish, and Native American (Creek and Cherokee). Ok, I actually need to learn more Deutsch but I will get there one day. Some of my ancestors were those who migrated away from Africa (along with many other peoples) and then we got race mixing, yada yada, but back to the subject. I personally do not feel that I need to go back natural because I've never had any type of disrespect for or misunderstanding of natural hair in the first place. I can only speak for myself. I cannot speak for anyone else who may have been always exposed to relaxers all their lives, never got to see their natural hair, and were following some type of pattern or social construct. I believe in tolerance and respect and that is something we all need to do. I do not believe that natural hair is better than relaxed or relaxed is better than natural by itself but depending on each person's choices, I believe one or the other may be better FOR the person according to what she is trying to accomplish personally with her own hair. We cannot say that all women who are natural just want to be political, militant, and make a statement and we cannot say that all women who are now relaxed and never plan on going back haven't had enough time to experience their natural hair or have some type of fear, misunderstanding, or disrespect for it.

(part in bold) nicely stated and this is my thoughts and feeling too..couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I say this because I have always been well-educated and well-rounded. I saw that natural hair was not a "disease" or ugly or anything negative (regardless of what other ignorant people outside my family may have said) because I was around it all my life and did think my family members' who had natural hair were beautiful. I just no longer wanted the natural hair for myself and even though I was only 13, I knew what I wanted and my wishes should have been respected by my family. I was not like several other little girls who were relaxed at 7, 8, or younger without understanding their natural texture. When I mean "experience" I mean that it wasn't just something that was sitting on top of my head but I was well aware of what it meant, the history behind it, and what it entailed. I've always been well aware of all parts of my heritage and tried to embrace them all: Black, Deutsch, Spanish, and Native American (Creek and Cherokee). Ok, I actually need to learn more Deutsch but I will get there one day. Some of my ancestors were those who migrated away from Africa (along with many other peoples) and then we got race mixing, yada yada, but back to the subject. I personally do not feel that I need to go back natural because I've never had any type of disrespect for or misunderstanding of natural hair in the first place. I can only speak for myself. I cannot speak for anyone else who may have been always exposed to relaxers all their lives, never got to see their natural hair, and were following some type of pattern or social construct. I believe in tolerance and respect and that is something we all need to do. I do not believe that natural hair is better than relaxed or relaxed is better than natural by itself but depending on each person's choices, I believe one or the other may be better FOR the person according to what she is trying to accomplish personally with her own hair. We cannot say that all women who are natural just want to be political, militant, and make a statement and we cannot say that all women who are now relaxed and never plan on going back haven't had enough time to experience their natural hair or have some type of fear, misunderstanding, or disrespect for it.

Are you claiming Dutch or German heritage?

 

[navsegda]

Are you claiming Dutch or German heritage?

Dutch, as in some of my ancestors came to America from the Netherlands. Why? Are you Dutch? If so, I'd like to talk to you because I feel I could learn more.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

No, I don't think relaxers are evil.

The actual product isn't the thing that instill improper values, thoughts, and beliefs into people.

If it wasn't relaxers it would be something else. Black women has been having issues dividing ourselves for centuries now, even before relaxers. IMHO, the relaxer only acts as a catalyst to what the REAL issues are.

 

[jshor09]

No, I don't think relaxers are evil.

The actual product isn't the thing that instill improper values, thoughts, and beliefs into people.

If it wasn't relaxers it would be something else. Black women has been having issues dividing ourselves for centuries now, even before relaxers. IMHO, the relaxer only acts as a catalyst to what the REAL issues are.

i totally agree

 

[navsegda]

No, I don't think relaxers are evil.

The actual product isn't the thing that instill improper values, thoughts, and beliefs into people.

If it wasn't relaxers it would be something else. Black women has been having issues dividing ourselves for centuries now, even before relaxers. IMHO, the relaxer only acts as a catalyst to what the REAL issues are.

Beautifully put. Girl, teach me how to write in Cliff's Notes!

 

[ThursdayGirl]

Dutch, as in some of my ancestors came to America from the Netherlands. Why? Are you Dutch? If so, I'd like to talk to you because I feel I could learn more.

No, Deutsch is the German word for the German language. If you were learning German then maybe we could've practiced together sometime. I haven't learned any Dutch yet, but when I do, expect a PM. We can chat

 

[sareca]

My mother raised me to believe relaxed or natural is nothing but a hairstyle. Either it suits you or it doesn't. Personally, I think there are real evils in the world and what you do with your hair isn't one of them.

I never realized how much black women use this subject to divide us until I came here. This is simply a modern iteration of the light-skinned versus dark-skinned thing. It makes me sad.

 

[navsegda]

No, Deutsch is the German word for the German language. If you were learning German then maybe we could've practiced together sometime. I haven't learned any Dutch yet, but when I do, expect a PM. We can chat

Hmm...I've just always seen the spelling Deutsch to refer to either the Dutch or German language (since Dutch is a Germanic language itself) when people were writing about them. And I've always seen either "Dutch" or "Deutsch" to refer to the Dutch people as well. Sorry for being confusing lol.

Do you think Dutch is harder than German? I know they have several similarities. There are things I have tried very hard to pronounce in Dutch and it still comes out sounding mildly retarded lol. Dutch seems harder than Russian to me hahaha.

 

[InnerSoul]

My mother raised me to believe relaxed or natural is nothing but a hairstyle. Either it suits you or it doesn't. Personally, I think there are real evils in the world and what you do with your hair isn't one of them.

I never realized how much black women use this subject to divide us until I came here. This is simply a modern iteration of the light-skinned versus dark-skinned thing. It makes me sad.

yep, what she said !

 

[ThursdayGirl]

Before I derail the topic,

I've Pmmed you...

 

[Artemis]

I say this because I have always been well-educated and well-rounded. I saw that natural hair was not a "disease" or ugly or anything negative (regardless of what other ignorant people outside my family may have said) because I was around it all my life and did think my family members' who had natural hair were beautiful. I just no longer wanted the natural hair for myself and even though I was only 13, I knew what I wanted and my wishes should have been respected by my family. I was not like several other little girls who were relaxed at 7, 8, or younger without understanding their natural texture. When I mean "experience" I mean that it wasn't just something that was sitting on top of my head but I was well aware of what it meant, the history behind it, and what it entailed. I've always been well aware of all parts of my heritage and tried to embrace them all: Black, Deutsch, Spanish, and Native American (Creek and Cherokee). Ok, I actually need to learn more Deutsch but I will get there one day. Some of my ancestors were those who migrated away from Africa (along with many other peoples) and then we got race mixing, yada yada, but back to the subject. I personally do not feel that I need to go back natural because I've never had any type of disrespect for or misunderstanding of natural hair in the first place. I can only speak for myself. I cannot speak for anyone else who may have been always exposed to relaxers all their lives, never got to see their natural hair, and were following some type of pattern or social construct. I believe in tolerance and respect and that is something we all need to do. I do not believe that natural hair is better than relaxed or relaxed is better than natural by itself but depending on each person's choices, I believe one or the other may be better FOR the person according to what she is trying to accomplish personally with her own hair. We cannot say that all women who are natural just want to be political, militant, and make a statement and we cannot say that all women who are now relaxed and never plan on going back haven't had enough time to experience their natural hair or have some type of fear, misunderstanding, or disrespect for it.

Nicely stated Navs
This wasn't my experience (Growing up I was natural until elementary school,relaxed all thru to jr yr of high school, natural from then till all thru college, and relaxed right after graduation) but I know and love my natural texture, but also know and love my individuality and the fact that I can change my hair at the drop of a dime and whatever I choose is OK.

 

[Enchantmt]

I say this because I have always been well-educated and well-rounded. I saw that natural hair was not a "disease" or ugly or anything negative (regardless of what other ignorant people outside my family may have said) because I was around it all my life and did think my family members' who had natural hair were beautiful. I just no longer wanted the natural hair for myself and even though I was only 13, I knew what I wanted and my wishes should have been respected by my family.

You know, when you are an intelligent child growing up and tend to have a more intellectual grasp on things, it's easy to think this way. However, since your wishes require money and upkeep, it's not that cut and dried. I believe a childs desires should be taken into consideration, but until you are paying your own way, the parents will wins. You lucked out.


ETA: To answer the question I'm not antiperm. I still relax my nieces hair when they ask me to. I do believe that everyone should experience their natural hair at least once in life, so they can come to appreciate their coils and zigzags, or at least, be on friendly terms with them.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

Beautifully put. Girl, teach me how to write in Cliff's Notes!

!! I love reading your posts though! So NO!

 

[navsegda]

You know, when you are an intelligent child growing up and tend to have a more intellectual grasp on things, it's easy to think this way. However, since your wishes require money and upkeep, it's not that cut and dried. I believe a childs desires should be taken into consideration, but until you are paying your own way, the parents will wins. You lucked out.

Should the parents' will win if they pay out of their pockets for a child to get a relaxer (whether salon, box perm, home, or wherever) and she adamantly doesn't want one? What if the situation had been reversed and my folks had paid for me to get a relaxer at the salon and I somehow coaxed the beautician into washing and pressing instead because it's what I wanted personally?

Note: Since the beautician said she realized it's not what my folks originally wanted, she didn't charge them extra for the relaxer; she charged them the price for a wash and press.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

My mother raised me to believe relaxed or natural is nothing but a hairstyle. Either it suits you or it doesn't. Personally, I think there are real evils in the world and what you do with your hair isn't one of them.

I never realized how much black women use this subject to divide us until I came here. This is simply a modern iteration of the light-skinned versus dark-skinned thing. It makes me sad.

Me neither!! I thought it was just me! Relaxed VS Natural= love thy self/hate thyself was never a big deal until I met hairboards. But I didn't want to be called a liar, so I was hesitant to say so.

IMHO, we look like stone cold fools saying that the rise and fall of black female self-esteem was off the basis of being relaxed and/or the 'white man.' We all know there is a bigger issue going on and people use relaxers as the easy way out. We always want to blame something else rather than find fault in ourselves-and this can go both ways (relaxers lovers VS haters).

Every aspect of black life we tend to divide ourselves-rich vs poor, welfare moms vs working moms, married vs non-married, socioeconomic status', cars, lips, hair, skin color, houses, everything. And yes white people do it too but being honest, I can care less about what they do, they are not the topic of discussion. All I am saying is that blaming relaxers seem to be cop-out and I think we all know it. If the relaxer issue is the whole compromise in our female's self-esteem, what the hell happened to our men?

 

[glamazon386]

Me neither!! I thought it was just me! Relaxed VS Natural= love thy self/hate thyself was never a big deal until I met hairboards. But I didn't want to be called a liar, so I was hesitant to say so.

You're right. I wasn't aware of it until we had a discussion in my Black culture class. It's not that deep for everybody. Everybody who relaxes doesn't do so out of self hatred and vice versa.

 

[Dee-Licious]

Me neither!! I thought it was just me! Relaxed VS Natural= love thy self/hate thyself was never a big deal until I met hairboards. But I didn't want to be called a liar, so I was hesitant to say so.

IMHO, we look like stone cold fools saying that the rise and fall of black female self-esteem was off the basis of being relaxed and/or the 'white man.' We all know there is a bigger issue going on and people use relaxers as the easy way out. We always want to blame something else rather than find fault in ourselves-and this can go both ways (relaxers lovers VS haters).

Every aspect of black life we tend to divide ourselves-rich vs poor, welfare moms vs working moms, married vs non-married, socioeconomic status', cars, lips, hair, skin color, houses, everything. And yes white people do it too but being honest, I can care less about what they do, they are not the topic of discussion. All I am saying is that blaming relaxers seem to be cop-out and I think we all know it. If the relaxer issue is the whole compromise in our female's self-esteem, what the hell happened to our men?

and I'm not shamed to say I NEED to relax my hair because I'm not BCing there is no way I can transition when I can barely deal with my newgrowth. And best believe I LOVE THE HELL OUTTA MYSELF and my RELAXED HAIR!!!

 

[navsegda]

This is simply a modern iteration of the light-skinned versus dark-skinned thing. It makes me sad.

This is absolutely beautiful. This one sentence is very deep and speaks volumes.

 

[envybeauty]

this is yet another thread on this board that just saddens me....as someone else said, the divide on this board is way larger than it has to be. why would the OP even start this ish is beyond me.... to ask a forum with so many relaxed heads if anyone else is anti-perm....and then for someone else to dig this out of the gutter years later......

 

[LocksOfLuV]

this is yet another thread on this board that just saddens me....as someone else said, the divide on this board is way larger than it has to be. why would the OP even start this ish is beyond me.... to ask a forum with so many relaxed heads if anyone else is anti-perm....and then for someone else to dig this out of the gutter years later......

At such an oh so "perfect timing"

 

[Dee-Licious]

this is yet another thread on this board that just saddens me....as someone else said, the divide on this board is way larger than it has to be. why would the OP even start this ish is beyond me.... to ask a forum with so many relaxed heads if anyone else is anti-perm....and then for someone else to dig this out of the gutter years later......

I was thinking the same thing..