Jess a.k.a Mahogany Curls responds to Curlynikki drama

[curlicarib]

@curlicarib, that is where you are mistaken; type 3 hair (even 3b) can be grown by everyone. Given that, if you think about it, you can see where the problem with inclusion can go hand in hand with (and make worse) texture discrimination. If you (the hair companies/media outlets/product purveyors) are trying to appeal to the widest audience out there, you are going to use spokespeople who appeal to that target audience. Now say you want get a market share in the "natural hair" movement. Now that "natural hair" includes "all women who don't have type 1 hair," why would you ever narrow your target audience by using someone with type 4 hair? You want that white/latino/mixed girl's money, because there are many more of them than there are type 4 girls. And sadly, those type 4 girls are more likely to want to try to emulate type 3 girls anyway, so you'll have them anyway without dealing with the hassle of trying to style type 4 girls for your campaigns/ads/commercials. Soon, we are back (even more) to the days where any depiction of "Black hair" is type 3, and every "natural hair" product is geared towards type 3 hair, or trying to make type 4 hair look like type 3--even more so than now. If you think this is far fetched, I will repeat something I posted in the CN thread:

1. Face of Rock & Roll: Elvis Presley
2. Face of Corn Rows: Bo Derek (past) Kylie Jenner (now)
3. Face of Twerking: Miley Cyrus
4. Face of popular ($$$) Rap: Eminem, Macklemore, Iggy Azaelea
5. and soon (if we let it), the Face of the Natural Hair Movement: Sara

Don't say you weren't warned.

I should have been more specific. I meant 3c - 4c and beyond.

If I where in the market to make a haircare product, I personally, would target 3c - 4 hair types. Why? Volume, product loyality, niche market, underserved area. And I'd make a mint.

And I've said here and I'll say it again, music and dance can be done by anyone with that/those gifts. Our hair texture is our own. And yes, i participated in that thread about the Asian afro trends. But we all know, the white women of America wouldn't last 24 hours with our hair type.

 

[nubiennze]

I was hoping MC would stay out of this.

If Shea Moisture goes full-on whitewashed I'm going to have to bite the bullet and start making my own products...*sigh*

 

[Jewell]

Though this is one article, we see how the natural hair products geared towards Black women always feature women who are borderline white in the ads. Yes, Latinas, Mediterranean, and Middle Eastern women can and do have curly hair. However, I have yet to see some 4a-4c coils and kinks on anyone but a SiSTER. My thing is, though it is one article, and "no one is talking about WW being the face of the NHM" as many have pointed out, the issue is WW want to be in and over every damn thing. And when they aren't, they cry foul.

It's like my grandma said, "When she isn't the center of attention by every race including her own, she feels less than. She IS less than. Why else would she tan, fatten her *** and breasts with implants, and fill her lips and cheeks?" She is aspiring to an aesthetic she was not born with. Demanding to insert her self into our movement when it comes to hair is just another attempt at this.

This has nothing to do with caring for the hair of Black children in White families. It has to do with capital and the need of The Man to snatch his piece any which way he can. Otherwise, The Man would never have taken his butt to Africa, South America, and India! They heard about the wealth of our people, and the richness of our land, and they wanted it for themselves.

It's deeper than a few WW and exotics put in Black natural hair care product ads and features.

 

[Froreal3]

Occassionally, over the years, I'd glimpse another natural in the far off distance and we'd acknowledge each other with the nod of our heads or the looks in our eyes as we passed by.

curlicarib that was you?

 

[JJamiah]

The natural hair moment to black women is wrapped in emotions. For white women its wrapped in power and money.

We shouldn't have to put a disclaimer that we don't hate white people, we love everybody,etc. They did not and do not gives us excuses on why they want things they way they do.

Not wanting them to be apart of this DOES NOT mean we hate white people By the way, they don't care if we do or don't.

Exactly that is nothing wrong with embracing ourselves as a people and excluding those that don't understand. I get you have a black friend or mixed child, but that doesn't give you a pass or the same understanding.

 

[JJamiah]

Though this is one article, we see how the natural hair products geared towards Black women always feature women who are borderline white in the ads. Yes, Latinas, Mediterranean, and Middle Eastern women can and do have curly hair. However, I have yet to see some 4a-4c coils and kinks on anyone but a SiSTER. My thing is, though it is one article, and "no one is talking about WW being the face of the NHM" as many have pointed out, the issue is WW want to be in and over every damn thing. And when they aren't, they cry foul.

It's like my grandma said, "When she isn't the center of attention by every race including her own, she feels less than. She IS less than. Why else would she tan, fatten her *** and breasts with implants, and fill her lips and cheeks?" She is aspiring to an aesthetic she was not born with. Demanding to insert her self into our movement when it comes to hair is just another attempt at this.

This has nothing to do with caring for the hair of Black children in White families. It has to do with capital and the need of The Man to snatch his piece any which way he can. Otherwise, The Man would never have taken his butt to Africa, South America, and India! They heard about the wealth of our people, and the richness of our land, and they wanted it for themselves.

It's deeper than a few WW and exotics put in Black natural hair care product ads and features.

And I am tired of WW young and old saying I don't want to be black.. I want to look as if I went on vacation... ok, Does having full lips happen while your own vacation, addition but pads, bigger boobs.. and WF have a habit of stealing cultures and imitating it trying to make it their own. Out of every single race, I still don't know where they started because from the beginning they seem to just not be satisfied with themselves... stealing...

 

[JJamiah]

I believe all people are beautiful.. We all have our own inner/outter beauty. Nothing is wrong with embracing your culture and ethnicity. We still have a long way to go to build ourselves up as a population, because you still have so many people who consider their natural selves ugly or less than perfectly themselves.

 

[*Frisky*]

Don't know if this has been posted but this issue should really make US stick together and quit the discrimination against our own kind.

 

[JJamiah]

Seems there are so many of us ready to pick each other apart based on anything. Skin color, hair texture and features we have little to no control over. Self love, will encourage many of us to just love, instead of hating on each other for trivial reasons. *Frisky*

 

[Kurlee]

My biggest issue with "inclusion" is that it transforms a movement that was originally supposed to be about combating white supremacist beauty standards into one that's just about haircare.

Yes, many white women have curly hair and many black women have curly hair. These women with similar hair types can share information about haircare techniques, and that's fine. There are plenty of places for that, both online and in real life.

The problem comes in when people try to insist that every space be about haircare only, and not about black empowerment. When white women insist that because they have struggled with their texture, they should be a part of every conversation and sit at every table where our struggles are talked about.

When we talk about afros being stereotyped as militant, about kinky hair being seen as masculine, about the tightest textures being described as "bad", we're talking about how racism AND beauty standards work together to effect our experiences as black women in this society. We NEED a place to have that discussion, to support one another, encourage one another, and reassure one another that there's more than one way to be beautiful. We can't do that in a natural hair community where participants claim that "this has nothing to do with race".

There are already curly-haired communities where women of all races can trade haircare tips and gripe about how their texture is perceived in our society. We need to preserve the Natural Hair Movement as a space where BLACK women can discuss the hair that is characteristic of our race without being shamed by those who are more interested in insisting that they understand than in actually understanding.

This comment from the op sums up my stance.

 

[prettybyrd]

The natural hair moment to black women is wrapped in emotions. For white women its wrapped in power and money.

We shouldn't have to put a disclaimer that we don't hate white people, we love everybody,etc. They did not and do not gives us excuses on why they want things they way they do.

Not wanting them to be apart of this DOES NOT mean we hate white people By the way, they don't care if we do or don't.

That is the truth, and point taken. But just to be clear, I never assumed that the women here hated white people because they did not add a disclaimer that I did - I am so sorry if that was the way it was received. I should have been more clear - I should have just left it out of what I wrote. Subscribe, I consider us on the same team. I did not intend to offend you or anyone else.

 

[SophieDulce]

This all about money..once a company gets acquired, they want to broaden their clientele. If your company is financed predominately by whites and you answer to white share holders guess what????? you no longer control the image of your company. With that said, no I dont want white women apart of the natural hair movement and any company that uses a white woman to represent my hair care needs will no longer get my money period.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Shea Moisture products are crap. That is all.

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

Shea Moisture products are crap. That is all.

Whaaaa?! I love their curl soufle (sp? And not even sure if that's the name) stuff. I mean its not a staple or must have, but I like it. And I love their African black soap! Yeah-yuh!

ETA: Now that I' on my laptop and can see your siggy I LOVE THAT LIP COLOR!!!! WERK!!!!!

 

[curlicarib]

curlicarib that was you?

Girl, yes!

I love the natural movement that's happening now, but it's because of the old timers like us, that really put up with some BS that this movement even happened. Every black woman should meet and live with her natural hair for a time, at least.

 

[SophieDulce]

I'm really loving Camille rose products , hopefully they stay rthe same quality

 

[aquajoyice]

I really loved MC videos and have followed her back when she BC'd. It's a shame she got involved.

 

[Channy31]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement?
Considering I'm mixed race?

The reason I ask is because where is the line here?

(I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

 

[Kurlee]

i unsubscribed. Wish she had stayed out of it. Money hungry ain't cute.

 

[oneastrocurlie]

Shea Moisture products are crap. That is all.

Must be why they are doing so well.

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement?
Considering I'm mixed race?

The reason I ask is because where is the line here?

(I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

you are not white. you are mixed and part black. you also have afro texture curls that you used to relax. in the past you have also experienced extreme breakage and damage trying to maintain straight hair because you did not accept your curls. you have also struggled with accepting your hair because you are biracial living in a predominately white environment. so, yes the natural hair movement applies to you. why are you try to compare apples to oranges? do you realize that you saying team natural and sarah saying team natural are not the same thing? her struggle is not the same as your struggle and the context is different.

 

[Kurlee]

you are not white. you are mixed and part black. you also have afro texture curls that you used to relax. in the past you have also experienced extreme breakage and damage trying to maintain straight hair because you did not accept your curls. you have also struggled with accepting your hair because you are biracial living in a predominately white environment. so, yes the natural hair movement applies to you. why are you try to compare apples to oranges? do you realize that you saying team natural and sarah saying team natural are not the same thing? her struggle is not the same as your struggle and the context is different.

i'm just guessing, but these kinds of poor comparisons come up because even though the reality may be "black", the existence of another side creates a sense of allegiance, even though they are not (and most likely never will be) included in that group, unless they can pass . I don't agree with the one drop rule, but I find it confusing (and hilarious) when people who look like and experience Black life act brand new. Half the time, nobody cares or can even tell unless people explicitly point it out with a genealogy lesson and even then, it's like : want a cookie or something?

 

[SophieDulce]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement? Considering I'm mixed race? The reason I ask is because where is the line here? (I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

No one curr

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Must be why they are doing so well.

Makes no difference to me. I don't support them either way.

 

[nubiennze]

Whaaaa?! I love their curl soufle (sp? And not even sure if that's the name) stuff. I mean its not a staple or must have, but I like it. And I love their African black soap! Yeah-yuh!

The Restorative con is my staple LI. The Purification Masque is my staple DC. I just fell in love with the whole Tahitian & Monoi line for my straightening routine. If they act a fool behind this...

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

The Restorative con is my staple LI. The Purification Masque is my staple DC. I just fell in love with the whole Tahitian & Monoi line for my straightening routine. If they act a fool behind this...

I think Sundial Brands will remain silent on the issue. But they are expanding their customer base by embracing the multicultural movement. I am not opposed to this shift. It is nice to see the company growing. They just need to maintain a careful balance so they don't alienate their original customer base.

Sundial Brand's mission to serve the general market(link to clearer picture)

 

[curlicarib]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement?
Considering I'm mixed race?

The reason I ask is because where is the line here?

(I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

I'm mixed too. My hair is 3a/b. I'm here and no one can tell me that I don't belong. Especially after I paid my $6.50.

Many people told me that I have that "good hair" and "it's so much easier for you". So? I don't give a flying fcuk if someone else's journey is harder or easier than mine. I'm on my own trip and it's just as real for me as their's is to them.

Besides, I was that one natural (or so it felt) in NYC in the 80/90s. Holding it down as hard as I could until the rest of my sisters caught up. There should be some points for that.

 

[Jewell]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement?
Considering I'm mixed race?

The reason I ask is because where is the line here?

(I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

Girl bye. All of us are mixed with SOMETHING. I guess you could call me mixed or multiracial too, but I am first and foremost Black. That is what I choose to identify with. But we are talking about WHITE WOMEN and the NHM. Not biracial, multiracial, mulattoes, octaroons, etc. Some of us know our heritage and others don't. Even so, we do not need to rub it in others' faces, and put "mixed" allover everything and use that disclaimer each time we post.

It's things like that that cause further divides in the community...and brought up the so-called, "good hair vs. bad hair" debate, the same old same old...just like the house N's vs. field N's ****. We need more togetherness, not division. The Man divides and conquers. We don't need to use that on each other and put ourselves into selective groups of this and that.

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

So, out of interest, what do you guys think of me being in the natural hair movement?
Considering I'm mixed race?

The reason I ask is because where is the line here?

(I'm just interested and won't argue with you if you reply )

Like we've stated before this is for us! Women of African bloodline. Which includes blacks in the states and over seas, blacks in the African diaspora, and mixes of this group.

This whole thing didnt pop off because a mixed curl with 3b hair was featured and crying inclusion. Fortunately as a mix girl who cant pass (based on your hair pix) you're stuck with us homie.

And I'm really not sure why mixed girls, black latinos, or even just light skinned girls would even think this has anything to do with them to start with?

I'm a 3b black Puerto Rican and I fully understand where this is coming from, going, and I'm on the wagon yelling "charge" with my fellow 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c, 4lmnop sisters.

I just... I dont understand how its not clear. Maybe I'm missing something!

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

i'm just guessing, but these kinds of poor comparisons come up because even though the reality may be "black", the existence of another side creates a sense of allegiance, even though they are not (and most likely never will be) included in that group, unless they can pass . I don't agree with the one drop rule, but I find it confusing (and hilarious) when people who look like and experience Black life act brand new. Half the time, nobody cares or can even tell unless people explicitly point it out with a genealogy lesson and even then, it's like : want a cookie or something?

Thank you and thank you some more! I knew I was not tripping in my thought process here.

And I still dont know where this is coming from?! No one has said anything about kicking each other out! All we have been preaching is unity amongst US here. Where is this confusion coming from?! I'm starting to think I'm brand new!!!

Did I miss the tragic mulatto bus? Was my black card revoked and no one told me?!? I mean man! I dont understand! And this is why my BP goes up every time I come back in here after I say I'm done.

I keep falling for the bait knowing its a trap I swear