Okay 3c and 4c hair types

[Proudpiscean]

Shine=glistening or radiance;hair that shines reflects light better than hair that has sheen because it's not as tightly curled or coiled. So the light reflects from it better..... I think that's the main difference.

 

[glamazon386]

LOL!!! Okay, so back to my question on the definition of coarse. So, is coarse hair not soft or silky???

Coarse hair feels rough when you touch it. And you will see the difference between shine and sheen. Go look at BubblnBrownSuga's (I dont think I spelled her name right) hair. How shiny it is when it's pulled back or when it's wet. Type 4 hair is not shiny like that. The light reflects off of it differently. Think about an afro. Afros are not shiny right? But when it's well moisturized it will have a sheen and not be dry looking.

 

[Proudpiscean]

LOL!!! Okay, so back to my question on the definition of coarse. So, is coarse hair not soft or silky???

Coarse hair is not silky, it may be soft though. Take for example an afro, while the hair is usually coarse, it may still be soft, or cottony to the touch.

 

[Cheleigh]

Okay, I'm about to open another can of worms. What exactly is the definition of kinky and course?? And how do you know if your strands are densely packed together??

I have coffee stirrer sized coils (I think I've said that a million times now, SORRY), yet my newgrowth is soft and shines a lot more than my relaxed hair. (And that could be because of the chemicals). And I have sections that are "baby hair" fine. I haven't had any issues with managing my newgrowth as of yet. It's soft to comb through. So what texture does that make it?? And what is the difference between shine and sheen?? Cuz I don't get that either.

Well, she (Ouidad) considers your loose, medium, or kinky curled hair to have a fine texture unless you are Asian or Native American. She considers those two to often have coarse hair. I know my hair is NOT coarse. I have lots of strands so my hair looks thick and coarse, but it's not.

I think she would consider folks in the 3a and 3b categories to be curly, people in the 2a-2c to be loose, and 3c-4b to be kinky.

If I'm typing my hair, I tend to use the LOIS definition. I am an S-O with fine and medium strands and a cottony/spongy texture.

Shine is traditionally seen on either straight haired folks or folks with silky hair textures. Shine reflects light brightly. Sheen is a duller reflection of light--the hair looks a little flat without bright light. The curlier the hair, generally, the less shine and the more sheen it has.

An example of sheen (on my own hair):
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL484/2350068/12252043/166519057.jpg

 

[FAMUDva]

I'd say 4a. That coil looks like the coils in my hair.

I'd agree... it's looks mostly like 4a to me also.

 

[Victorian]

Coarseness: refers to thickness (DIAMETER) of the strand alone. Large diameter = coarse, small diameter = fine.

Density: refers to thickness of the hair as in NUMBER OF STRANDS on your head. Lots = thick, less = thin.

Soft: what kind of conditioner are you using? But yeah, maleability depends on your moisture retention. I guess because some hair types retain water better than others without a lot of extra effort, softness is often viewed as an intrinsic quality. But to say that certain types just "aren't" soft or can't be soft would be wrong.

Shine: If your cuticles are laying down properly, your strands should be shiny. That's just the way hair is. The reason why people talk about sheeny vs. shiny is because the size of your curl pattern will determine the overall visual effect as your hair strands reflect light. If you have a lot of texture (as in smaller curl size or wavelength) your hair will reflect the light in more directions than someone with larger curls or straight hair. This is purely physics, ladies. Smooth = shine, more crinkles = sheen. But understand that sheen IS shine, just on smaller surface areas.

The problem is that these properties are all separate technically, BUT we tend to see a lot of correlations IRL, and that's why people falsely think all x's have/do y, etc, when there are actually a lot of cases when that isn't true. It's like if you give an example of something folks latch onto it and start acting like that's the definition of 4a or 4b or 3c or whatever.

Now my personal opinion is that if your system requires "exceptions" that include a very large number of people (like, say, "Asians" lol), your system needs to be improved. Don't marry coarseness and curl pattern when you know that the people who tend to have the coarsest hair (Asians) AND the people with the finest hair (Scandinavians) both tend to have poker straight hair. It just doesn't make any sense to me. We should just talk about each property in turn instead of trying to combine things under one heading.

Sorry for the long post...I just get annoyed by stuff like this that really is just unnecessarily complicated.

 

[Ms_Twana]

See I would have said that you hair has shine.

Well, she (Ouidad) considers your loose, medium, or kinky curled hair to have a fine texture unless you are Asian or Native American. She considers those two to often have coarse hair. I know my hair is NOT coarse. I have lots of strands so my hair looks thick and coarse, but it's not.

I think she would consider folks in the 3a and 3b categories to be curly, people in the 2a-2c to be loose, and 3c-4b to be kinky.

If I'm typing my hair, I tend to use the LOIS definition. I am an S-O with fine and medium strands and a cottony/spongy texture.

Shine is traditionally seen on either straight haired folks or folks with silky hair textures. Shine reflects light brightly. Sheen is a duller reflection of light--the hair looks a little flat without bright light. The curlier the hair, generally, the less shine and the more sheen it has.

An example of sheen (on my own hair):
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL484/2350068/12252043/166519057.jpg

 

[Ms_Twana]

Coarseness: refers to thickness (DIAMETER) of the strand alone. Large diameter = coarse, small diameter = fine.

Density: refers to thickness of the hair as in NUMBER OF STRANDS on your head. Lots = thick, less = thin.

Soft: what kind of conditioner are you using? But yeah, maleability depends on your moisture retention. I guess because some hair types retain water better than others without a lot of extra effort, softness is often viewed as an intrinsic quality. But to say that certain types just "aren't" soft or can't be soft would be wrong.

Shine: If your cuticles are laying down properly, your strands should be shiny. That's just the way hair is. The reason why people talk about sheeny vs. shiny is because the size of your curl pattern will determine the overall visual effect as your hair strands reflect light. If you have a lot of texture (as in smaller curl size or wavelength) your hair will reflect the light in more directions than someone with larger curls or straight hair. This is purely physics, ladies. Smooth = shine, more crinkles = sheen. But understand that sheen IS shine, just on smaller surface areas.

The problem is that these properties are all separate technically, BUT we tend to see a lot of correlations IRL, and that's why people falsely think all x's have/do y, etc, when there are actually a lot of cases when that isn't true. It's like if you give an example of something folks latch onto it and start acting like that's the definition of 4a or 4b or 3c or whatever.

Now my personal opinion is that if your system requires "exceptions" that include a very large number of people (like, say, "Asians" lol), your system needs to be improved. Don't marry coarseness and curl pattern when you know that the people who tend to have the coarsest hair (Asians) AND the people with the finest hair (Scandinavians) both tend to have poker straight hair. It just doesn't make any sense to me. We should just talk about each property in turn instead of trying to combine things under one heading.

Sorry for the long post...I just get annoyed by stuff like this that really is just unnecessarily complicated.

GIIIIRRRLLLL!!! You went WAAY too deep on me!!!

Yeah, now that I think about it, I have heard coarseness and density described like that before. So how do I tell which one my hair is???

 

[Ayeshia]

I dunno I always defined myself as a fluffy or cottony 3c...but yet Ive seen people with my exact curl pattern but just silkier...so maybe I am a 4a...hmmm.

 

[Ms_Twana]

Okay, see your hair looks silky to me. I would put you in the 3 category. Especially if it looks like this:

http://public.fotki.com/Ayeshia21/hair/img0020.html

Sorry to steal your pic. I promise I won't use it for anything!!!! LOL!!

I dunno I always defined myself as a fluffy or cottony 3c...but yet Ive seen people with my exact curl pattern but just silkier...so maybe I am a 4a...hmmm.

 

[Ayeshia]

Okay, see your hair looks silky to me. I would put you in the 3 category.

silky when wet/damp...fluffy when dry, no shine...only when I slick it back with product i get shine/waves in the root area.

 

[Ayeshia]

Okay, see your hair looks silky to me. I would put you in the 3 category. Especially if if looks like this:

http://public.fotki.com/Ayeshia21/hair/img0020.html

Sorry to steal your pic. I promise I won't use it for anything!!!! LOL!!

No problem.....my album is public anyway

 

[Lucia]

NC did contradict their own definition of 3c by putting Fadya's hair in the 4a category. But her hair is beautiful whatever the type!


Here is their definition
"Type 3C, is hair with tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. Some people refer to this as "big hair." Getting this type of hair to blowdry straight is more challenging than for 3A or 3B, but it usually can be done. This includes those with very tight curls but finer hair, as well as coarser hair. 3C has really really tight curls, like pencil or straw circumference. 3B is like sidewalk chalk or salt shaker circumference, and 4A is like coffee stirrer circumference."

So this is aying it's the type of curl pattern you have that makes you 3 or 4 not if your hair is fine, silky, or coarse. But they still contradicted themselves all over the website.
LOIS and Fia are a little better. This is why I don't type my hair, way too much confusion.

 

[Ms_Twana]

silky when wet/damp...fluffy when dry, no shine...only when I slick it back with product i get shine/waves in the root area.

Really!!! I would have thought it always looked like that.

 

[Ms_Twana]

Yeah, see that's what I said. By curls, I'm a 4a. I'm still working on the texture!!!

So this is aying it's the type of curl pattern you have that makes you 3 or 4 not if your hair is fine, silky, or coarse. But they still contradicted themselves all over the website.
OS and Fia are a little better.

 

[Lucia]

Ok hopefully this helps a little, but seriously we are all diff. each one of us I would say it's easier to type within close family, but we don't have "the same" curl pattern or hair period.

FIA:

Fia's Hairtyping System


First classifier - Your curliness (or lack thereof)

The straight ones
1a - stick straight
1b - straight but with a slight body wave, just enough to add some volume, doesn't look wavy
1c - straight with body wave and one or two visible S-waves (e.g. nape of neck or temples)

The wavy ones
2a - loose, stretched out S-waves throughout the hair
2b - shorter, more distinct S-waves (similar to waves from braiding damp hair)
2c - distinct S-waves and the odd spiral curl forming here and there

The curly ones
3a - big, loose spiral curls
3b - bouncy ringlets
3c - tight corkscrews

The really curly ones
4a - tightly coiled S-curls
4b - tightly coiled hair bending in sharp angles (Z-pattern)


Second classifier - What (most of) your individual strands look like

F - Fine
Thin strands that sometimes are almost translucent when held up to the light. Shed strands can be hard to see even against a contrasting background. Similar to hair found on many people of Scandinavian descent.

M - Medium
Strands are neither fine nor coarse. Similar to hair found on many Caucasians.

C - Coarse
Thick strands that where shed strands usually are easily identified against most backgrounds. Similar to hair found on many people of Asian, Hispanic or native American descent.




Third classifier - Your overall volume of hair

Put your hair in a ponytail with as much hair as possible in it. Don't bother with the way it looks - the goal is to have most/all of your hair in there. If it means it sits smack dab on top of your head, put it there.
Measure the circumference of the ponytail. If you have bangs and/or you can't get all of your hair in there adjust according to how much of your hair you have measured.

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)

ii - normal (between 2-4 inches or 5-10 centimeters)

iii - thick (more than 4 inches/10 centimeters)

If you are having difficulty determining the thickness of individual hairs, this might help:

Take a strand of hair from the back of your head. Roll the strand between your thumb and index finger.

Fine Hair -- Your hair is difficult to feel or it feels like an ultra-fine strand of silk.

Coarse Hair -- Your hair feels hard and wiry. As you roll it back and forth, you may actually hear it!

Medium Hair -- Your hair feels like a cotton thread. You can feel it, but it isn't stiff or rough. It is neither fine or coarse.




LOIS
http://www.ourhair.net/content/view/29/40/

 

[LocksOfLuV]

So IS there such thing as a 3c or what?

 

[glamazon386]

So IS there such thing as a 3c or what?

No somebody made it up and people just ran with it. It wasn't originally part of the system. That's probably why it causes so much confusion.

 

[Ms_Twana]

Okay, see ya'll gone have my mirror in my hand all night trying to figure this stuff out!!!

Okay, and IS there a 4c???

 

[LocksOfLuV]

Okay, see ya'll gone have my mirror in my hand all night trying to figure this stuff out!!!

Okay, and IS there a 4c???[/quote]

That was my next question!

 

[LocksOfLuV]

No somebody made it up and people just ran with it. It wasn't originally part of the system. That's probably why it causes so much confusion.

Okkkkaaaay lol, so much for being a 3b or 4a. But I can see how some people can fit in between.

 

[Ms_Twana]

Okay, let me ask this question. Do you ladies find that your hair is silkier when it's pulled back?? I had my hair pulled back all week, and the parts that laid the flattest (front, sides, and back) are really silky. But the part in the middle.....WHEW!!!

 

[glamazon386]

Okay, see ya'll gone have my mirror in my hand all night trying to figure this stuff out!!!

Okay, and IS there a 4c???

No, there's just 4A (s curl pattern) and 4b (z pattern). Sometimes people call 4a 4s and sometimes people call 4b 4z. But I've never heard of a 4c.

 

[divya]

Okay, let me ask this question. Do you ladies find that your hair is silkier when it's pulled back?? I had my hair pulled back all week, and the parts that layed the flattest (front, sides, and back) are really silky. But the part in the middle.....WHEW!!!

Oh yes, most of my hair is very silky when pulled back. But oh my gosh, the middle of my hair is like the bush...fight to get through it....