Tithes...my own personal revelation & study…

[Poohbear]

ETA: just had an idea. Since a majority of the members are children and maybe the adults don't work, how about encouraging members to go back to school, maybe start a church daycare, that can bring in revenue because you can accept vouchers from the state for working people who can't afford to pay out of pocket.

For the people who can cook, set up some good ole church fish fries to raise money. For those who don't work during the day, set up mid day Bible studies that enable people to be in the Word other than just on Sunday mornings.

My dad would consider those activities as fundraising, and he doesn't believe in fundraising and feels it's against God.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

My dad would consider those activities as fundraising, and he doesn't believe in fundraising and feels it's against God.

So, does he believe that God will just pour buckets of money on the church? not being funny, but some people are literally waiting for that sort of miracle.

Faith requires action behind it. God wont bless the servant who sits on his talents or buries it in the ground. We are all gifted to go into the world and spread the gospel and we all have our ways to do it. How many children would be blessed by being under the daily care of Christians teaching them what unconditional love is? How many parents in the community would go out and get jobs so that they can take car of their family if only they knew that there was someone that they trusted who could take care of their kids? being a single parent myself. . .good safe daycare is a true blessing in and of itself.

 

[Poohbear]

So, does he believe that God will just pour buckets of money on the church? not being funny, but some people are literally waiting for that sort of miracle.

Faith requires action behind it. God wont bless the servant who sits on his talents or buries it in the ground. We are all gifted to go into the world and spread the gospel and we all have our ways to do it. How many children would be blessed by being under the daily care of Christians teaching them what unconditional love is? How many parents in the community would go out and get jobs so that they can take car of their family if only they knew that there was someone that they trusted who could take care of their kids? being a single parent myself. . .good safe daycare is a true blessing in and of itself.

He doesn't feel like God will pour buckets of money on the church. He believes that the money that the church receives should come solely from church members' giving...not from income-raising activities.

And I agree with you about faith requires action. My dad wouldn't be opposed to a daycare. It's just that with him it would be a non-paying daycare for the people who are watching the children. It's almost like that now. I work with the youth on Sundays and Wednesdays and sometimes other days of the week if we have some type of outreach ministry going on, and they tend to be very rowdy. Most of the time, we are actually feeding and babysitting them. We do our best to get the Word of God across to them and don't get me wrong, a lot of the youth have come to Christ through our teaching of the Word, but sometimes it can be a hassle working with these kids all the time.

 

[Netta1]

I most certainly don't have all the answers... but I feel great when I give a piece of what I have to someone else who has less...

There is a true Joy in giving especially when you give under GODS direction... Even the simplest giving (monetary or non-monetary) can bless someone and hopefully show them GODs love..

So I go with the notion that you can't give what you don't have. If we look at the OT testament of the bible everything that GOD required of the people (concerning) the specifications of building his temple was based on what they already had in the CAMP.

I understand that the present day church has bills to pay, LOL maybe they should charge a membership fee then just maybe they could preach the real biblical definition of what the tithe means...

I have been to churches where they have said in SERVICE, "do not expect us to pray for you if you don't have a tithe!!!"

I have been in churches where the preacher has actually STOPPED/HALTED the service until a financial goal was reached!!

On a more positive note...

I have been in churches that used money to take care of the people within the community.. They gave out dinners to the people in the community for FREE...on a regular bases...

I have heard of churches that took the financial tithe and gave it to a member (who was in need) during church service...The pastor BLESSED the member by GIVING them the tithes!

Can you imagine if everyone brought a piece of what they already had (be it talent, money, time ext), with a sincere heart…ready to share with those who didn't have...at the place where GOD instructed??

Could you imagine what it must have been like to enjoy the blessings of your produce at GODs direction and in HIS presence... If I was a Deut 14:22 believer I would've politely taken 10% of my harvest and followed GOD too...

 

[Ramya]

If you have faith in God providing your needs then you will have it. That is something that I've learned from experience. I tithed when i was receiving unemployment as well, even though it was less than my previous pay, and I made it through with God's help. Tithing is an act of obedience. Obedience demonstrates faith, especially when it doesn't look like it will work out to the good.. Faith reaps blessings because God knows that you truly trust Him.

ITA! When you tithe you are seeking first the kingdom of God as instructed in Romans. I have always gotten some kind of return on my tithes. I get money that I'm not even expecting all the time! Blessings come from any and everywhere due to God's faithfulness.

 

[Poohbear]

ITA! When you tithe you are seeking first the kingdom of God as instructed in Romans. I have always gotten some kind of return on my tithes. I get money that I'm not even expecting all the time! Blessings come from any and everywhere due to God's faithfulness.

But this is not true for everyone that tithes.

 

[Ramya]

But this is not true for everyone that tithes.

How so? God does not favor me more than anyone else. If He blesses me and my messiness, I'm sure He could find it in Him to bless everyone else. Tithing can be uncomfortable. Some people start at 2% and build up to 10%. But you have to do something and start somewhere. I mean my own pastor struggled with tithing when he first got saved. Now he chooses to tithe 14% in order to always give an offering. I do see it as stealing and in my quest to be a woman of the highest integrity, that money is not mine. If it is mine, God will give it back to me because He is the perfect example of integrity.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

ITA! When you tithe you are seeking first the kingdom of God as instructed in Romans. I have always gotten some kind of return on my tithes. I get money that I'm not even expecting all the time! Blessings come from any and everywhere due to God's faithfulness.

Yesss!!!! isn't it a blessing. I bought a car. . .cash. . .while unemployed. God Did That!!!! and still had my tithes in the plate. Hallelujiah. Jehovah Jireh

 

[Highly Favored8]

If you have faith in God providing your needs then you will have it. That is something that I've learned from experience. I tithed when i was receiving unemployment as well, even though it was less than my previous pay, and I made it through with God's help. Tithing is an act of obedience. Obedience demonstrates faith, especially when it doesn't look like it will work out to the good.. Faith reaps blessings because God knows that you truly trust Him.

ITA with what you just said.

 

[Poohbear]

How so? God does not favor me more than anyone else. If He blesses me and my messiness, I'm sure He could find it in Him to bless everyone else. Tithing can be uncomfortable. Some people start at 2% and build up to 10%. But you have to do something and start somewhere. I mean my own pastor struggled with tithing when he first got saved. Now he chooses to tithe 14% in order to always give an offering. I do see it as stealing and in my quest to be a woman of the highest integrity, that money is not mine. If it is mine, God will give it back to me because He is the perfect example of integrity.

I didn't say that God favors you more than anyone else. And I didn't say the money belongs to me. Everything belongs to God. I'm simply saying that not everyone gets money out of nowhere or unexpectly from the act of tithing.

Plus, where in the Bible does it say to start at a lower percent and work your way up to 10% or more when you can afford it? I thought the Bible says that you are robbing God if you don't give 10% of your gross. erplexed

 

[HeChangedMyName]

But this is not true for everyone that tithes.

It should be though. I'm not saying that every person will experience winfalls of cash, but a cheerful and faithful tither should never be without what they need. The wants are all extra. When I tithe, I expect that God has already prepared a way for me to do it continually. I enjoy it. It's like a game between me and God. I do it out of obedience and wait to see what he will have in store. because I know there is always something whether it is monetary, materially, or spiritually that I receive.

 

[JinaRicci]

It should be though. I'm not saying that every person will experience winfalls of cash, but a cheerful and faithful tither should never be without what they need. The wants are all extra. When I tithe, I expect that God has already prepared a way for me to do it continually. I enjoy it. It's like a game between me and God. I do it out of obedience and wait to see what he will have in store. because I know there is always something whether it is monetary, materially, or spiritually that I receive.

That's it!

 

[msa]

^^^ So are you all saying God wants us to tithe 10% of your gross income even if you don't have it??? Go broke over a tithe given to a church and feel cheerful about it??? And is tithing only monetary???

I don't believe in tithing money if you don't have any money to give. Tithing your time is of equal (and sometimes greater) value.

Frankly, when I don't have money to tithe, I don't. By that I mean if I know that giving a tithe means bills won't get paid, then I will not tithe monetarily at that time. Instead, I volunteer my time cleaning the church, watching the nursery, helping with sunday school, etc. etc.

But, I will say that people are taught to tithe without being taught how to be good stewards of what the Lord provides for them. I see that from the pastor's on down to the bench members. If you don't budget correctly, then of course you'll have so many bills that you can't tithe without going into debt. That isn't the Lord's fault, that's yours.

 

[JinaRicci]

Thank you! I agree. My father does tithe the proper tenth and gives over and beyond that. The thing is, he is also getting paid by the church so it's like he actually gets most of his tithe back. I know in the Bible it says that a pastor should get paid for his work. Right now, the church is suffering financially. Sometimes, my father tends to overspend with the church money on things he feels will benefit the mission on the church. For instance, we've had a couple of pastor anniversary celebrations (which I don't believe in). The church has bought him these very expensive robes to wear (over $500 each). I just think that's too much when he can be just fine not wearing a robe. That's just an example. But I don't know. I try not to worry about it too much but it's hard because I live with my parents and my dad complains about finances of the church everyday literally!

Poohbear- it sounds like there is a serious discussion that God is preparing you to have with your dad. There are a couple of different things at play here. You seem to have very strong convictions on what happens with the church finances and I agree with you. I don't want to say too much and offend you b/c it is your dad & I'm guessing it's a hard conversation for you to have b/c of those same reasons.

I didn't know that the Bible said a pastor should get paid. (?) In any event, management of church finances is a huge responsibility that God expects to be done right. Pray about it and God will reveal.

 

[Ramya]

I didn't say that God favors you more than anyone else. And I didn't say the money belongs to me. Everything belongs to God. I'm simply saying that not everyone gets money out of nowhere or unexpectly from the act of tithing.

Plus, where in the Bible does it say to start at a lower percent and work your way up to 10% or more when you can afford it? I thought the Bible says that you are robbing God if you don't give 10% of your gross. erplexed

I never said that it says to do that in the bible. I'm saying that sometimes you have to start SOMEWHERE in order to be consistent. It beats not tithing at all. Especially when one is genuine with God in what they are trying to do. I know people who 'can't afford to tithe' but give everything that they can. They eventually began to tithe the whole amount because they were in the act of consistently giving.

 

[Ramya]

I don't believe in tithing money if you don't have any money to give. Tithing your time is of equal (and sometimes greater) value.

Frankly, when I don't have money to tithe, I don't. By that I mean if I know that giving a tithe means bills won't get paid, then I will not tithe monetarily at that time. Instead, I volunteer my time cleaning the church, watching the nursery, helping with sunday school, etc. etc.

But, I will say that people are taught to tithe without being taught how to be good stewards of what the Lord provides for them. I see that from the pastor's on down to the bench members. If you don't budget correctly, then of course you'll have so many bills that you can't tithe without going into debt. That isn't the Lord's fault, that's yours.

I totally agree with the bold. If you are a poor steward with a little, you will be a poor steward with a lot.

 

[Poohbear]

I never said that it says to do that in the bible. I'm saying that sometimes you have to start SOMEWHERE in order to be consistent. It beats not tithing at all. Especially when one is genuine with God in what they are trying to do. I know people who 'can't afford to tithe' but give everything that they can. They eventually began to tithe the whole amount because they were in the act of consistently giving.

I know people who "can't afford to tithe" and give everything they can too... But if we want to be hardcore tithers and go strictly by the Bible, isn't it wrong to give less than 10% of your gross income? Is it wrong to give 10% of your net income? Someone here said you are robbing God if you don't give 10%. My dad says the same thing. The Bible strictly says to give 10% of your firstfruits. Why are there exceptions for some on how much to give and not others? And doesn't the New Testament overrule the Old Testament law of giving? "Give as you are able" "Give with a cheerful heart" "Give out of what you have and not from what you have not"...

Disclaimer: Just so you all know, I'm not against tithing. I am someone that tithes 10%. I just have a problem with some things people say about tithing and giving, and that's why I'm throwing these questions out there.

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear- it sounds like there is a serious discussion that God is preparing you to have with your dad. There are a couple of different things at play here. You seem to have very strong convictions on what happens with the church finances and I agree with you. I don't want to say too much and offend you b/c it is your dad & I'm guessing it's a hard conversation for you to have b/c of those same reasons.

I didn't know that the Bible said a pastor should get paid. (?) In any event, management of church finances is a huge responsibility that God expects to be done right. Pray about it and God will reveal.

Yeah I've had a few discussion with my dad about this issue. I've even suggested for him to give up the money he receives from the church if the church is suffering financially. And he said "No, that would be unfair to the church who loves their pastor. They don't want to take away their blessing from their pastor, blah blah blah" but my parents gross 6 figures combined from their regular jobs!

 

[JinaRicci]

I totally agree with the bold. If you are a poor steward with a little, you will be a poor steward with a lot.

So true! People have problems with tithing & being good stewards when they don't have much money and when they have lots of it.

I tithed when I was a student & there were some months that were difficult when I thought that I would pay my bills first then pay the tithe that was owed the next month. Yeah... See my reasoning at the time was that I was still paying my tithe- just a bit later... Let me say when I did that I was always broke- the money just seemed to disappear. But when I paid my tithe first, somehow everything got paid with leftovers.

All God is saying is 'Prove me.' You give your tithe in faith knowing that God will take care of you. It defies our human understanding & rationale but that's why it's the evidence of things not seen.

 

[msa]

Yeah I've had a few discussion with my dad about this issue. I've even suggested for him to give up the money he receives from the church if the church is suffering financially. And he said "No, that would be unfair to the church who loves their pastor. They don't want to take away their blessing from their pastor, blah blah blah" but my parents gross 6 figures combined from their regular jobs!

Poohbear, I don't want to say anything negative about your father so please don't think I'm attacking him. But his logic doesn't make sense and in my eyes it's "stealing" from the church and its members.

If the church is in financial trouble and he doesn't need the money, then he shouldn't be taking it. It is unfair to the members who could benefit from a food basket or a bill being paid by that money. It is not a blessing to take money from people who can't afford to give it. And it surely can't be a blessing if the church's finances are in trouble.

Pooh, I don't envy your situation. It's going to take a lot of prayer to see the other side of this one.

 

[Prudent1]

Poohbear,
Sorry it took a while to get back here. I understand what you are saying. I can only speak of what I know to be true and what others I know personally have experienced. The kingdom of God's way of doing things looks foolish to the world and often times God instructs us to do things that appear to be unrealistic. In fact that is his normal M.O. The kingdom's ways are opposite in almost every area to everything we have ever learned our entire lives. You asked if you make $3000 but bring home $2500 are you supposed to pay $300. Yes. From my understanding yes. That leaves $2200 to live off of in our example. You should budget and expect to live on that $2200. If you have done something to exceed that you have to make the necessary steps to change your situation and live on less than you make period. Maybe that means you will have to sell that car. Move out of that apartment. Not keep charging stuff on your credit cards etc. Anytime you have an out go vs income problem adjustments must be made period. They are temporary. God honors your obedience. The righteous never are forsaken or left to beg for their needs. How pitiful would that make God? The children of satan are living it up and we are destitute?
If they have less to tithe from that money is going somewhere. We have to learn to control our money or it will control us. You end up with too many bills and nothing to tithe or give. It is a vicious circle they will become trapped in. When I say ‘you’ below I am not directing that at your personally ok?

It's just that I feel like even if I give 10% to the church I attend, I feel like it's not enough in my father's eyes. Your tithing needs to based on what God’s word says not your dad. Children must obey their parents. Adults must honor their parents. There is a difference between the two.

What if you tithe 10% money-wise, and give like over 10% of your time and service to the Lord helping others and participating in outreach ministries? Does that time and service to the Lord truly count as a tithe, or is it just extra works that we should be doing anyway to exercise our faith and to glorify god? I try to always reference the bible as the final authority in my life. I have never seen a scripture that says you can tithe time or services. At one point in my life I said the same things listed above. All I can tell you is that I started to tithe at a time when my income was very low and I was a newly divorced mom with little kids and no child support. There are times when someone sent me the exact amount I needed to pay my bills or someone bought food for us. The very things I had only spoken to God about. There was no way another human could have known how much or what I desired b/c those things were only spoken in my heart. I was afraid to tithe off of my gross but I took that step of faith and have not looked back.

So are you all saying God wants us to tithe 10% of your gross income even if you don't have it??? Go broke over a tithe given to a church and feel cheerful about it??? And is tithing only monetary???
In your example if you take home $2500 you do have $300. If you are going broke over something, you need to make lifestyle changes. Tithing is only monetary until I see some scriptures that say otherwise. If you go to pick up your check on your next payday but it is short and the Hr dept says they are going to do nice services for you in lieu of how would that fly?

How do you all feel about this particular person's response?
I have seen and read all kinds of articles that tell you not to tithe or some other variation. All I can tell you is what I know. Tithing is a spiritual law. Just like gravity is a natural law. You don’t have to understand gravity. You can read articles that will tell you gravity is not real by ppl w/ Phd behind their names. You don’t have to like gravity. But I assure you if you walk off of a 10 story building in the morning, you are coming down. Tithing works.

Should we encourage the adults who don't have jobs to get jobs so they can tithe in order for the church to keep running? And should they be cut off from the body of Christ if they don't have an income to tithe from? I don’t think the purpose of the adult’s jobs should be to tithe. They should work b/c it is biblical and also b/c they will be able to fulfill their responsibility to their kids or their debtors. Then yes, after they have been blessed by God with jobs and have health to work the jobs they should begin tithing. Nowhere in the bible are there examples of ppl cut off from the church b/c they did not tithe. There are some examples of ppl being dismissed from the church but this is not one. Tithing is not a ticket to heaven. Not tithing will not send you to hell. You will not walk in the fullness of life God desires for you if you don’t tithe but it is not a salvation issue.

Sometimes, my father tends to overspend with the church money on things he feels will benefit the mission on the church. I am not downing your dad. It is good he pays his tithe. Yes, there are many scriptures that clearly tell us God wants his priests taken very good care of. Your church needs a budget too. If there was a budget in place (and it was being adhered to) based on income there should never be overspending going on. Especially not often. This hurts the church. How can it help train ppl for jobs or feed and clothe those w/o jobs at this time and meet their needs if it is broke due to overspending? Then he is complaining? When he overspent? Complaining is dangerous and disrespectful towards God but that’s another thread.

But this is not true for everyone that tithes.Yes Poohbear it is. God does not have favorites. The blessings of the Lord are for whosoever… Now we may have heart issues, trust issues, bitterness, jealousy or any # of things that are known blessing blockers. That is usually the reason why someone doesn’t see manifestations.

I thought the Bible says that you are robbing God if you don't give 10% of your gross.It does. There is also a passage that says if you don’t pay your 10% until later you are supposed to add a certain amount of interest. I can’t remember the verse right now.

Why are there exceptions for some on how much to give and not others? And doesn't the New Testament overrule the Old Testament law of giving?There are no exceptions. To do so would make God a liar. The NT does not overrule the OT. It completes it. If OT ppl were expected to give under the law how much more should we be doing under grace?


In love,
Prudent1

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks Prudent1 for your response! I agree with most everything you said.

About my church, we have a treasurer that sets a budget for the church but my dad is so controlling that he overrules that budget. He wants to spend more than what we have.

And I gave that tithing example of gross $3,000 and net $2,500 because I know this guy in that situation where he has just regular bills (house payment, car payment, car insurance, electric bill, cable bill, phone bill, child support, student loan) and he only has about $100 a month left over from his net pay after bills are taken out. How can he give $300 a month to God if he's only left with $100 a month which he'll need for food and gas?

Also about receiving blessings for tithing... I'm not saying there's some people who are not being blessed from tithing... I know God doesn't have favorites and I know he doesn't bless some and not others. He blesses all His children in some type of way. And I agree that there are some people who have jealousy issues as well. I was simply saying not everyone gets money from out of nowhere unexpectantly like Ramya said earlier. I agree that people are blessed from tithing but not always monetarily blessed which isn't necessarily a bad thing since money isn't everything and shouldn't be our focus in life.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Prudent1, I'm giving you a Holy High Five!

 

[JinaRicci]

Thanks Prudent1 for your response! I agree with most everything you said.

About my church, we have a treasurer that sets a budget for the church but my dad is so controlling that he overrules that budget. He wants to spend more than what we have.

And I gave that tithing example of gross $3,000 and net $2,500 because I know this guy in that situation where he has just regular bills (house payment, car payment, car insurance, electric bill, cable bill, phone bill, child support, student loan) and he only has about $100 a month left over from his net pay after bills are taken out. How can he give $300 a month to God if he's only left with $100 a month which he'll need for food and gas?

Also about receiving blessings for tithing... I'm not saying there's some people who are not being blessed from tithing... I know God doesn't have favorites and I know he doesn't bless some and not others. He blesses all His children in some type of way. And I agree that there are some people who have jealousy issues as well. I was simply saying not everyone gets money from out of nowhere unexpectantly like Ramya said earlier. I agree that people are blessed from tithing but not always monetarily blessed which isn't necessarily a bad thing since money isn't everything and shouldn't be our focus in life.

I agree- not everyone may be blessed with money but God may bless you with other things- food, shelter, health-which money can't replace but you can spend a lot of money on to fix. I get what you're saying there's no guarantee you'll get back $ but it's not about that- it's saying God I have this much & I trust you to multiply it to take care of me & take care of your sheep.

My advice to your friend- cut the cable (so to speak). Like Prudent said- we need to budget- cut the things out that keep us from being faithful. A friend of mine did exactly that recently- she couldn't understand how she could give tithe & eat- now she does.

 

[Poohbear]

I agree- not everyone may be blessed with money but God may bless you with other things- food, shelter, health-which money can't replace but you can spend a lot of money on to fix. I get what you're saying there's no guarantee you'll get back $ but it's not about that- it's saying God I have this much & I trust you to multiply it to take care of me & take care of your sheep.

My advice to your friend- cut the cable (so to speak). Like Prudent said- we need to budget- cut the things out that keep us from being faithful. A friend of mine did exactly that recently- she couldn't understand how she could give tithe & eat- now she does.

Exactly!

And his cable bill is about $60 a month. So when he cuts that, he'll only have $160 left each month for food, gas, and tithes. And see, he still doesn't have that $300 (10% of his gross) to give in tithes, is he still considered robbing God?

 

[Renaylor]

I have been having issues with tithing as well. My husband doesn't seem to understand about tithing the 10th of what you have.He seems to think its not in the bible when in fact it is. He gives what he can to the church when he has it and when doesn't he gives only what he can afford. I have tried to explain this to him. He got upset with me over a bill that accidently went upaid for a while and ended up in collections(the bill was in his name) I had to hold off paying it because the service had been cut(by us) and we switched to another service provider. He said the bill should have been paid first and that God says we have to pay who we owe first. I had up to this point tithing a tenth of my salary given most to my church and the rest to another ministry. It was no problem. We gained a windfall back because we moved and did not have to pay private school fees for our kids any longer and we had finished paying another bill off. Unfortunately my husband had to take a pay cut, he had to pay taxes on money he borrowed from his 401k(which will be paid by December) and he was borrowing money from a family member to help offset the cost(he quickly pays this back). He doesn't always tell me everything I need to know when I need to know it or wait until the last minute and since I do the budget I am at a disadvantage.My husband does have a seasonal second job and we have cut expenses since we moved into new house. The Lord has been so good to us because we were able to get this house at time the credit markets started to hose up ,sell our apartment at a time when noone was buying, and live in a fantastic school district where we don't have to send out kids through private education. We are stewards of what he gives and I want to make sure the Lord gets what he is supposed to. However it seems like every month due to carelessness on the part of family certain expenses that don't have to exist suddenly appear. I have spoken to them about it and have cut back on buying the extras. I always bring my lunch and breakfast to work. There was some stuff my husband could have done too but I know he is doing the best he can. I want to ask for a pay raise to offset what my husband lost in his paycut but right now where I am working it is tight like it is everywhere. I have been praying on this and there is no way around it- I will continue to tithe my tenth and tighten my belt tighter.

 

[Prudent1]

I have been having issues with tithing as well. My husband doesn't seem to understand about tithing the 10th of whatyou have.He seems to think its not in the bible when in fact it is. He gives what he can to the church when he has it and when doesn't he gives only what he can afford. I have tried to explain this to him. He got upset with me over a bill that accidently went upaid for a while and ended up in collections(the bill was in his name) I had to hold off paying it because the service had been cut(by us) and we switched to another service provider. He said the bill should have been paid first and that God says we have to pay who we owe first. I had up to this point tithing a tenth of my salary given most to my church and the rest to another ministry. It was no problem. We gained a windfall back because we moved and did not have to pay private school fees for our kids any longer and we had finished paying another bill off. Unfortunately my husband had to take a pay cut, he had to pay taxes on money he borrowed from his 401k(which will be paid by December) and he was borrowing money from a family member to help offset the cost(he quickly pays this back). He doesn't always tell me everything I need to know when I need to know it or wait until the last minute and since I do the budget I am at a disadvantage.My husband does have a seasonal second job and we have cut expenses since we moved into new house. The Lord has been so good to us because we were able to get this house at time the credit markets started to hose up ,sell our apartment at a time when noone was buying, and live in a fantastic school district where we don't have to send out kids through private education. We are stewards of what he gives and I want to make sure the Lord gets what he is supposed to. However it seems like every month due to carelessness on the part of family certain expenses that don't have to exist suddenly appear. I have spoken to them about it and have cut back on buying the extras. I always bring my lunch and breakfast to work. There was some stuff my husband could have done too but I know he is doing the best he can. I want to ask for a pay raise to offset what my husband lost in his paycut but right now where I am working it is tight like it is everywhere. I have been praying on this and there is no way around it- I will continue to tithe my tenth and tighten my belt tighter.

Hi Renaylor!!
I feel like a broken record sometimes but your situation sounds similar to mine when I was married. My husband totally disapproved of me tithing or giving. He thought I was foolish. We are all learning and growing and still very much human but very much God's children too. I thank Netta1 for starting this discussion b/c we can all learn from each other here. I wanted to address some of your comments in hopes that you can learn something from my own personal experiences. Please do not ever think that I am arrogant or nosey. If we are looking at a pig, I'm gonna call it a pig. I am not going to call it a cow for purpose of being PC. I just don't have that in me. People get hurt when you aren't honest. There is a difference between hurt feelings(we can learn to get over those) and damaged souls (only God can mend). Ok, the word tells us in many places about borrowing being not a good thing for us. We live in a world where no one has patience and as a result credit looks really good- at the time. Our grandparents had less to work with but they bought homes, cars, sent kids to school, ate, etc all w/o having large amounts of debt. They knew how to wait and to save money.There is power and freedom in delayed gratification. They worked so hard to allow us to have the lifestyle we have. Borrowing money from a 401k is almost never a good idea unless someone's life is on the line. There are substantial penalties from the governmment. Plus if your husband loses or tries to leave his job, that money becomes due immediately! When we borrow money from relatives it changes the dynamics of the relationship. Turkey at Thanksgiving just doesn't taste the same you know? It can put all the wrong ppl in your business. Which can then cause stress on the marriage. It is just not good. Be that as it may, what's done is done. What is the game plan and timeline for paying these debts off (rhetorical)? I see you are trying to do a budget but it is not fair for one person to totally relinquish the budgeting to their spouse. It leaves room for lots of finger pointing. Plus a marriage is a partnership. One of the top 3 reasons for divorce in America are money problems. If one person is better at something than the other that's fine but both parties should have equal say and both parties need to be fully aware of where the money is going and what the plan is for accomplishing shared goals. In other words, you have a marriage issue that is masquerading as a money issue. Communication is vital in a successful marriage.
Asking for a payraise can be a good idea. You know your circumstances. If you do decide to ask for a raise, have your stuff together. You need to be able to clearly demonstrate your monetary value and all contributions past as well as how you can make them more money in the future. Powerpoint, flow charts, whatever it takes. Yes things are tough right now for some but, there is no recession in the kingdom. You gave God the praise for him letting you buy your home in your post. Can't he do a little something, something in this area too? Don't limit God. He can get you a raise or a new job or as many others have stated he finds ways to get you what you need. You may get a gas card w/ a large balance. You may get gift cards for the grocery store or something. Maybe it will be clothes for the kids. Think and say something good is going to happen to me! Where we tend to mess up is if he provides for us in that way we don't take the money we were going to use for 'x' and pay it towards debts. Instead we spend it. God gives all who ask for it wisdom. Pray and ask him for witty ideas and concepts. Maybe you can save your company $$ and be rewarded for it. Maybe you can start an online business. Have a yard sale. Can you cook, sew, speak, write well? These things can generate extra income too. There is nothing too hard for God. I've said all of this to say God is the one who can enlighten and change your husband's mind. There are two great 'prayers for your husbands' in this Christian forum. Search for them and begin to cover your DH. Your job is to look to the one who can change this and pray for your husband. Then comes the hard part- waiting. Ask God for grace to wait. Celebrate the little victories along the way. Write things down in a notebook. They will give you hope along the way. Here is a book I highly recommend you read. It is called the Total Money Make-over by Dave Ramsey. If you don't want to buy it check it out at the library. Here is a link to his website www.daveramsey.com. Start listening to his free show online. Also, for ideas on how to generate income check out www.48days.com. It is Dan Miller's website. He has a free podcast too. Both of these men are Christian counselors who have changed my life. Also check out Crown Financial Ministries at www.crown.org. When we take that first step of faith to begin the turn around process God supernaturally intervenes.

Prov 22:7-
7 The rich rule over the poor,
and the borrower is servant to the lender.

James 2:20-
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
Psa 121:1-2
1 I lift up my eyes to the hills—
where does my help come from?
2 My help comes from the LORD,
the Maker of heaven and earth.
Psa 23:1-
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.

 

[Prudent1]

And I gave that tithing example of gross $3,000 and net $2,500 because I know this guy in that situation where he has just regular bills (house payment, car payment, car insurance, electric bill, cable bill, phone bill, child support, student loan) and he only has about $100 a month left over from his net pay after bills are taken out. How can he give $300 a month to God if he's only left with $100 a month which he'll need for food and gas?

Also about receiving blessings for tithing... I'm not saying there's some people who are not being blessed from tithing... I know God doesn't have favorites and I know he doesn't bless some and not others. He blesses all His children in some type of way. And I agree that there are some people who have jealousy issues as well. I was simply saying not everyone gets money from out of nowhere unexpectantly like Ramya said earlier. I agree that people are blessed from tithing but not always monetarily blessed which isn't necessarily a bad thing since money isn't everything and shouldn't be our focus in life.
Hi Poohbear ( I love that name ),
So in response to the guy friend. He needs to make some lifestyle changes. The necessities of life are Food, Shelter, and Utilities. That said cable as you stated does not qualify. He may need to sell the car and pay cash for a reliable used car. Cars. boats, etc should not exceed 1/2 of your annual income b/c these things drop too much in value and we usually end up upside down on them(owing more than they are worth). That will lower his insurance rate too probably. If he is not over when is the last time he shopped aroung for better insurance rates for his things? It doesn't sound like he was ready for home ownership. Your rent or mortgage payment should not exceed 1/4 of your take home pay. If it does you will struggle. Can he put his loans in forebearance? Can he reapply and change to graduated payments or income contingent payments with a solid plan to turn his finances around? In his current situation he has created a scenario where he is a bona-fide slave to so many entities.

ITA not everyone will get their blessing via money and however he wants to bless me I'm down with it. Money should never be the main focus for any of us but we must recognize it takes money to run God's house just like it takes money to run ours. Not paying our tithes is still robbery. We all have to seek him to get us out of our messes. When I really got serious about tithing. I turned off the cable, cell phone, and stopped eating out and going out. People thought I was crazy:burning: . See I was living like no one else and in a few years Poohbear I will be living like no one else b/c I'll be debt free. Money is only a tool though.

Prov 22:7-
7 The rich rule over the poor,
and the borrower is servant to the lender.

 

[JinaRicci]

Exactly!

And his cable bill is about $60 a month. So when he cuts that, he'll only have $160 left each month for food, gas, and tithes. And see, he still doesn't have that $300 (10% of his gross) to give in tithes, is he still considered robbing God?

I hear you- I really do & I am sympathetic to his situation. Cutting the cable was mentioned as an example of how he could reduce his monthly expenses. My point was there is room to trim those bills. I can't tell someone how to spend their $ but if I only had $100 to cover food & gas & incidentals for the month there is no way I would be spending more than half of that amount on cable.

This is a matter of principle. It's about being a good steward & living w/in one's means- Christian or not, tithing or not. There are needs and then there are wants. Transportation is a need and driving a certain make of car is a want. Not sure if this is the case here but too often we make decisions based on wants that affect our finances. When we're making those types of decisions, we're not good stewards and it's worse when we're using that as an excuse for not tithing. Yes-it's robbing God.

Good stewardship & tithing are just two examples of principles that God teaches in the Bible to set us up for success that as Christians we sometimes ignore yet non-Christians recognize their worth & practice them in their own lives. Financial success books & gurus will tell you it's not about how much you earn, it's about how much you spend. The other thing they will tell you is that tithing as a principle is the secret to leading a more abundant life. We might pay $$ for that type of advice and we already have it right there in the Bible.

So encourage your friend & pray with him on the subject. It will change his life.

 

[NaturallyGraceful]

I never quite understood the logic of giving out of your gross.
So you give 10% each check & then at tax time you have to pay the government some back.
To me, you never "had" what those numbers on that check indicated in the first place.
I'm a faithful tither & have no problem giving 10%+ off the top of what's actually in my possession. Whenever I got an income tax check back, I always gave 10% of that too.
I just don't get it I guess.

Also, I remember Paula White teaching that Tithing & First Fruits were two different things.
I didn't really commit everything she said to memory, but is anyone familiar with that?

And I know that some denominations believe that tithing is part of the old Law and that it's not required, but offerings are expected.
Anybody know about that too?