Tithes...my own personal revelation & study…

[Netta1]

The scriptures below have been a real eye opener to me concerning tithes. As of late, I was always wondering if some Church pastors (in particular) were incorrect in the way they preached tithes. Then after leaving the subject matter alone for a while...I ran across these scriptures while attempting to read my bible from cover to cover…

Deut 14:22-28

22 Be sure to set apart a tenth of everything your fields produce each year. 23 Here are the things you should eat in the sight of the Lord your God. You should eat a tenth part of your grain, olive oil and fresh wine. You should also eat the male animals among your livestock that were born first to their mothers. Eat all of those things at the special place the Lord your God will choose. He will put his Name there. You will learn to have respect for him always.

24 But suppose the place the Lord will choose for his Name is too far away from you. And suppose your God has blessed you. And your tenth part is too heavy for you to carry. 25 Then sell it for silver. Take the silver with you. Go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy anything you like. It can be cattle or sheep. It can be any kind of wine. In fact, it can be anything else you wish. Then you and your family can eat there in the sight of the Lord your God. You can be filled with joy.
27 Don't forget to take care of the Levites who will live in your towns. They won't receive any part of the land as their share.

28 At the end of every three years, bring a tenth of everything you produce that year. Store it in your towns. 29 Then the Levites can come and eat. That's because they won't receive any part of the land as their share. The outsiders and widows who live in your towns can come. So can the children whose fathers have died. Everyone can have plenty to eat. Then the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.

I am not complete in my tithing study but based off of the scriptures above I have found that…

1.The partaking of the tithes (at least the tithes addressed in the scriptures above) were meant for the people’s enjoyment; they brought them to GOD at the place HE said bring them and ENJOYED them there. They brought them out of respect for GOD.

2.Tithes were not traditionally money…tithes were taken off what the people already HAD and according to the scripture above tithes were food and drink. Also, how can you give a tithe from ZERO? If you have no grain, how are you going give a tithe from your grain??

3.If the people could not carry their grain/produce/food then it was exchanged for silver (i.e. money)-once the people arrived at the place GOD wanted them to be (the designed location) the tithe of silver (i.e. money) was exchanged (used to buy) whatever they wanted to FEAST on! The point was that they enjoyed it (ATE THEIR TITHE) in the sight of the LORD.

4.The people were instructed take care of the Levites b/c the Levites did not have land (an inheritance) like everyone else. GOD was their inheritance.

5.Every third year the people were instructed to bring put a tenth away from everything they produced into STORAGE. So that EVERYONE would have plenty to eat.

It is an honor to GIVE and enjoy what GOD has blessed us with; tithing & giving are beautiful concepts when taught right from their historical perspectives. IMO (which is based off the OT scriptures noted above) tithing is about enjoying the fruits of your labor, enjoying the blessings of GOD, sharing with those who don’t have, and doing it all in the presence/will/direction of GOD. I am afraid, however that “the church” in general, has made it burdensome…

Just my two cents thus far…my study continues… Just thought I would share



b'rakh!

 

[ladykaya]

I like your two cents...lol. I always felt that you can only tithe from what you have. I have been to a church that was very nice in the word and the people but I couldn't get over the fact that they would put people's names in the programs for those who tithed the week before. I knew I couldn't join a church like that because it seem to praise those who were giving and those who couldn't would feel guilt especially if they were unable to.
I also feel the church is not the only place that you can tithe, just by giving to other people in need or just because is a gift that God appreciates. I'm still a learning Christian so all my thoughts and practices could be wrong, but In my heart and how I interpret the word, I feel it is a good place until I am properly proved wrong.

 

[Netta1]

^^ thanks for your response Ladyk^^

 

[msa]

Hey Netta which bible version did you use (kjv, niv, etc)?

 

[Netta1]

Hey Msa!

The scriptures above (Deut 14/ 22-28) came from the NIV...

Thanks for stopping by!

 

[Prudent1]

Great thread! Hopefully some others will share their understanding of this very important spiritual law as well. Here's what I have learned after time spent studying and praying about this spirtual law.
1. It is a spiritual law like sowing and reaping. Appying this law will benefit anyone but none believers will not enjoy the benefits to the full extent.
2. The tithe should come off the gross not the net amount. To do so is to give God seconds not 1st dibbs. Imagine cutting a whole pie into pieces, God should get the first slice period. The government does not tax you off of your net. They get their's upfront w/o our permssion. God should get his up front also before you touch anything.
3.You can only tithe from what you have. Your tenth may not be my tenth. God knows what he has allowed you to have. Take 10% of that.
4. The churches who post member's personal info for all to see are not walking in agape love. God does not put you on 'front street' (not without giving you multiple chances and warnings- and I've never seen it done in a tithing situation).
5. Giving to other people is giving/gifting. Tithing is sacred and belongs only to God. The priest (local pastor) is supposed to be following God's instructions and using all of the tithes to bless those in need and to meet his needs(Yes, so they could eat back in the day. Now-a-days most of us are not worried about what we will eat as in an 'eat or die' scenario so it may be the church helping in areas like medical needs, electricity, shelter, etc)and he (the pastor) blesses you for being obedient in your giving. Our pastors are the equivalent to Levite priests. God does everything decent and in order. He chooses to speak to us through our pastors primarily. Of course he speaks to us personally as well if we choose to listen but primarily through our pastors.
6. The tithe must be given cheerfully. If not keep it to yourself.

God is not trying to take anything from us. It all belongs to him anyway. All we are doing is stewarding/ managing his money. If you decide not to tithe, that will not doom you to hell. You will not be promoted in some areas. You will not enjoy some of what God wishes to bestow upon you in this life. I want to keep going to higher levels in my relationship with God. I want whatever he has in mind for me. This next one took a while to sink in for me... if you are not tithing or are making excuses about whether to tithe off gross vs. net, you have a heart issue. You are not trusting God fully in this area. There is something you are afraid of not being able to take care of financially. Fear in any shape or form does not come from God. Maybe you have dug yourself into a debt hole. Maybe you love the stuff you're doing with your money more than you love God but whatever it is the root is a heart/trust issue. Selah. Some will reject that. Some are not ready to let go and trust God in that area. It may take a while. Pray about it. Really seek God to see if what I have said here line's up with his word. If I'm wrong, you have given 'extra' income to God. Since it's not ours anyway and we can't out give him where's the harm in that? I have personally seen this law at work in my life. Wonderful post Netta1!!

Lev 27:30
30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

Mal 3:10
10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

Psa 50:10
10 for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.
Matt.6:21
21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
If you’re not sure where your heart is look at your check book. It’s usually a good place to start.
Read the parable of the talents. Remember what Jesus said to Pontious Pilot. All authority belongs to him. He gives us a share of power and he will ask us to give an account of what we did. How we leveraged our power. If it was used to further the kingdom’s agenda and usher in the time of Christ’s return.
I wish you wholeness,
Prudent1

 

[Chicoro]

This is a nice thread.

 

[Netta1]

Thanks for sharing your point of view prudent! Chicoro thanks for stopping by!

 

[trenise]

I like your two cents...lol. I always felt that you can only tithe from what you have. I have been to a church that was very nice in the word and the people but I couldn't get over the fact that they would put people's names in the programs for those who tithed the week before. I knew I couldn't join a church like that because it seem to praise those who were giving and those who couldn't would feel guilt especially if they were unable to.
I also feel the church is not the only place that you can tithe, just by giving to other people in need or just because is a gift that God appreciates. I'm still a learning Christian so all my thoughts and practices could be wrong, but In my heart and how I interpret the word, I feel it is a good place until I am properly proved wrong.

I go to a church where the business record is passed around to all members. Not only do you know who tithed, but how much...and the people compare to see who gave the most. I don't know a scripture specifically to adress that, but that can't be right could it? That makes me very uncomfortable and I try not to put my name on anything I give.

Another church allowed a member to tithe her foodstamps because she nor her husband had a job to support their three little children.

 

[Prudent1]

I go to a church where the business record is passed around to all members. Not only do you know who tithed, but how much...and the people compare to see who gave the most. I don't know a scripture specifically to adress that, but that can't be right could it? That makes me very uncomfortable and I try not to put my name on anything I give.

Another church allowed a member to tithe her foodstamps because she nor her husband had a job to support their three little children.

Wow!!

 

[Supergirl]

Great insight Netta

I am finally in a place where I tithe, not out of guilt or obligation, but out of thanksgiving. I was looking at my bank account online one day and saw my direct deposit. The amount wasn't a surprise or anything, but at that moment I was like "that's a good paycheck!" (and I'm not boasting, shoot I'm in education so not rich at all-well yes, rich through my Father) But at that moment, I was like "How could I not thank God for that by being a good steward of it and tithing from it."

 

[msa]

I go to a church where the business record is passed around to all members. Not only do you know who tithed, but how much...and the people compare to see who gave the most. I don't know a scripture specifically to adress that, but that can't be right could it? That makes me very uncomfortable and I try not to put my name on anything I give.

Another church allowed a member to tithe her foodstamps because she nor her husband had a job to support their three little children.

Both of those things are completely inappropriate and, as far as I know, illegal. A church should not be releasing its members financial information (how much they gave) to other members. Also, food stamps are to be used for food, not church tithing. That family could lose their benefits over that. And it's completely immoral to take food out of those children's mouths. If anything, the church should be giving to them, not the other way around.

Not to be rude, but you need to find a new church. Something is not right in that place and you don't want to get caught up in it.

 

[CinnaMocha]

I go to a church where the business record is passed around to all members. Not only do you know who tithed, but how much...and the people compare to see who gave the most. I don't know a scripture specifically to adress that, but that can't be right could it? That makes me very uncomfortable and I try not to put my name on anything I give.

Another church allowed a member to tithe her foodstamps because she nor her husband had a job to support their three little children.

I have never heard of such a thing, and it is so, I am quite stunned...It now makes me wonder if this is a regular occurence in churches and how it is allowed...I mean to be specific, when is that info provided for all your church members to view (just the thought makes me smh)???

 

[msa]

I have never heard of such a thing, and it is so, I am quite stunned...It now makes me wonder if this is a regular occurence in churches and how it is allowed...I mean to be specific, when is that info provided for all your church members to view (just the thought makes me smh)???

Personally, I've never heard of churches doing that before this thread. Now, my church does pass out a year end log/receipt so that members can do their taxes accurately, but that's to each individual.

 

[CinnaMocha]

Personally, I've never heard of churches doing that before this thread. Now, my church does pass out a year end log/receipt so that members can do their taxes accurately, but that's to each individual.

Now what you are saying I am familiar with...I understand that, but to find out that some churches practice what Trenise experiences leaves me a little speechless...

 

[Poohbear]

2. The tithe should come off the gross not the net amount. To do so is to give God seconds not 1st dibbs. Imagine cutting a whole pie into pieces, God should get the first slice period. The government does not tax you off of your net. They get their's upfront w/o our permssion. God should get his up front also before you touch anything.

3.You can only tithe from what you have. Your tenth may not be my tenth. God knows what he has allowed you to have. Take 10% of that.

I see you said these two statements above...Explain this:

How can someone tithe 10% from their gross income if they do not have that?

For instance: Let's say someone gross $3,000 a month and only nets $2,500 a month. They have other bills to pay as well. What if they only have $250 instead of $300 to tithe each month, and they are giving that $250 out of their cheerful heart and not grudgingly? And what if they have even less than 10% of their net income to tithe from? Does that mean we are still robbing God even though we are giving some type of monetary amount?

I ask this because at my church, my dad is the pastor. He says, "If you don't tithe 10% of your gross and plus some, you're robbing God and you're not fit for the kingdom of Heaven." I have a serious problem with that statement and do not agree at all. He's even said stuff like "I should make a rule that if you don't tithe 10% of your gross, you can't participate in church activities or benefit from the church." And you have to keep in mind that we have a small church which is in a poor diminishing community. Most people at our church have either little to no income. How do you all feel about his statements?

 

[JinaRicci]

^^ I am speechless too. erplexed

On tithing (& offerings): I agree that giving shouldn't be limited to money but I don't think we should hold back money to give something else-just me. We give based on whatever we have-yes. My feeling is that whether you give money or time or anything you own, it should be done freely not expecting something in return. Whether or not you get something back shouldn't be the incentive to give- it should come from your heart. It shouldn't also be inspired by fear- fear of not being blessed or fear of being cursed.

I like story of the widow & the mite- she gave all that she had from her heart AND she trusted God to take care of her in her greatest moment of need.

 

[Poohbear]

^^ I am speechless too. erplexed

On tithing (& offerings): I agree that giving shouldn't be limited to money but I don't think we should hold back money to give something else-just me. We give based on whatever we have-yes. My feeling is that whether you give money or time or anything you own, it should be done freely not expecting something in return. Whether or not you get something back shouldn't be the incentive to give- it should come from your heart. It shouldn't also be inspired by fear- fear of not being blessed or fear of being cursed.

I like story of the widow & the mite- she gave all that she had from her heart AND she trusted God to take care of her in her greatest moment of need.

Thank you! I totally agree, especially on the part about not giving out of fear. That's how I feel sometimes. When I give, I don't expect anything in return and I surely don't hold it back for something else. It's just that I feel like even if I give 10% to the church I attend, I feel like it's not enough in my father's eyes. He sometimes makes his statements as if they are direct words from God. It has been an issue on several other concepts in the bible (but that's a different thread). But anyway, I want to give from what God puts on my heart to give, not because of what some man thinks. I know he's a pastor/overseer of the church and he's my father, but he is not my God.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

I agree that some preachers guilt people out of just giving money. You are correct in that tithing isn't only monitary. Some people don't have money so they can give time, or a talent that they have or some thing that they have to give, be it clothing, or food to the needy.

Also the scripture said tithe where He told us to. True that. You can't go planting your seed any and everywhere. I tithe at my own church because I know that that is fertile ground. We have outreach programs that the tithes go to cover food for the needy, outreach programs and events for the community. For me, monitary is the easy way to go as I don't really have excess time. However when there is a call for clothing or food items I always want to give. I have yet to feel burdened with calls for money. Thanks for the scriptures.

 

[Poohbear]

I agree that some preachers guilt people out of just giving money. You are correct in that tithing isn't only monitary. Some people don't have money so they can give time, or a talent that they have or some thing that they have to give, be it clothing, or food to the needy.

Also the scripture said tithe where He told us to. True that. You can't go planting your seed any and everywhere. I tithe at my own church because I know that that is fertile ground. We have outreach programs that the tithes go to cover food for the needy, outreach programs and events for the community. For me, monitary is the easy way to go as I don't really have excess time. However when there is a call for clothing or food items I always want to give. I have yet to feel burdened with calls for money. Thanks for the scriptures.

So why do a lot of pastors stress the aspect of tithing being monetary? What if you tithe 10% money-wise, and give like over 10% of your time and service to the Lord helping others and participating in outreach ministries? Does that time and service to the Lord truly count as a tithe, or is it just extra works that we should be doing anyway to exercise our faith and to glorify god?

 

[JinaRicci]

I see you said these two statements above...Explain this:

How can someone tithe 10% from their gross income if they do not have that?

For instance: Let's say someone gross $3,000 a month and only nets $2,500 a month. They have other bills to pay as well. What if they only have $250 instead of $300 to tithe each month, and they are giving that $250 out of their cheerful heart and not grudgingly? And what if they have even less than 10% of their net income to tithe from? Does that mean we are still robbing God even though we are giving some type of monetary amount?

I ask this because at my church, my dad is the pastor. He says, "If you don't tithe 10% of your gross and plus some, you're robbing God and you're not fit for the kingdom of Heaven." I have a serious problem with that statement and do not agree at all. He's even said stuff like "I should make a rule that if you don't tithe 10% of your gross, you can't participate in church activities or benefit from the church." And you have to keep in mind that we have a small church which is in a poor diminishing community. Most people at our church have either little to no income. How do you all feel about his statements?

That's a tough question because I believe that tithing is between the individual & God. This is in the sense that only God knows the person's heart & what they have & don't have to give. I can tell them of my experiences & how God was faithful but I couldn't condemn them. Your father has a different role though as a pastor & he's right- you rob God when you don't give 10%- that's scripture. But I don't agree with saying that the person isn't fit for the kingdom of God.

I have heard many sermons on tithing that may have good intentions but use fear or guilt to get the message across. To me the best preaching & encouragement on this subject is to just testify.

 

[dicapr]

I see you said these two statements above...Explain this:

How can someone tithe 10% from their gross income if they do not have that?

For instance: Let's say someone gross $3,000 a month and only nets $2,500 a month. They have other bills to pay as well. What if they only have $250 instead of $300 to tithe each month, and they are giving that $250 out of their cheerful heart and not grudgingly? And what if they have even less than 10% of their net income to tithe from? Does that mean we are still robbing God even though we are giving some type of monetary amount?

I ask this because at my church, my dad is the pastor. He says, "If you don't tithe 10% of your gross and plus some, you're robbing God and you're not fit for the kingdom of Heaven." I have a serious problem with that statement and do not agree at all. He's even said stuff like "I should make a rule that if you don't tithe 10% of your gross, you can't participate in church activities or benefit from the church." And you have to keep in mind that we have a small church which is in a poor diminishing community. Most people at our church have either little to no income. How do you all feel about his statements?

I do not think that it is the churches business on how you give your tithe. It is between you and God. That being said, I agree with giving off the gross. If the government takes what is there's first, shouldn't God get what is his first. The government takes what it is owed off the top and I just don't feel right telling God that because the government took what was their's I have to cut his portion to balance it out. This is my own personal convicition and I would never belittle someone who feels that tithing off the net is what they are called to do.

 

[BrownEyez22]

My old church did the report thing as well, when I was growing up. It was printed every sunday, they stopped doing this in the mid-late 90s. Now they just mail you something for your tax records.

I just called my dad to ask him why they did that (i was so young, he was the financial secretary). He said it was tradition and alot of churches did it that way a looong time ago (and had already stopped) and he was glad to see them get rid of it. Some people were more focused on what the church report said that sunday than what the message was about.

He also said some people who preached and taught the importance of tithing/offering and lived lavishly, were exposed and given the "sideeye" (for lack of a better word), for not tithing.

You could also request for your tithes to be made private. As I remember my grandmother giving a unusually large amount one month and she asked them not to publish it.

Just giving another experience with the tithing/report report thing.

 

[Poohbear]

^^^ So are you all saying God wants us to tithe 10% of your gross income even if you don't have it??? Go broke over a tithe given to a church and feel cheerful about it??? And is tithing only monetary???

 

[Poohbear]

I was reading an article about tithing and saw this response to the article:

Another author, more unbiblical teaching. Far too many pastors, teachers, etc. call teach that Christians are supposed to "tithe." The tithe was strictly between God and Israel, and it had nothing to do with money.

Christians are never called to "tithe" but we are to follow the standard Paul sets forth in 2 Corithians 8 & 9.

We do not have to "worry" about giving on the "gross" or the "net." We do not "storehouse" tithe because we are not tithing food. The church is not the "storehouse."

Perhaps pastors who call and even threaten Christians to tithe should get their wish. Let their congregations dump a bunch of food into the collection plate. Then those pastors can store that in their storehouse.

We need to be "bereans" and those in no greater area than the whole issue of the role of the Mosaic law and the Christian were that is needed today.

I urge Christians to reject any teaching that attempts to place you under the Mosaic law in any sense.

How do you all feel about this particular person's response?

 

[HeChangedMyName]

So why do a lot of pastors stress the aspect of tithing being monetary? What if you tithe 10% money-wise, and give like over 10% of your time and service to the Lord helping others and participating in outreach ministries? Does that time and service to the Lord truly count as a tithe, or is it just extra works that we should be doing anyway to exercise our faith and to glorify god?

In my opinion it is extra. I guess some pastors do it because they feel that people will shirk on their monetary responsibility and those who are able to tithe, wont. tithes also go to keep the church lights on, heat and maintanance, mortgage. If those who have the money to tithe, don't tithe then the church may close and if it closes then it is no good to the community. it's just a building.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

^^^ So are you all saying God wants us to tithe 10% of your gross income even if you don't have it??? Go broke over a tithe given to a church and feel cheerful about it??? And is tithing only monetary???

If you have faith in God providing your needs then you will have it. That is something that I've learned from experience. I tithed when i was receiving unemployment as well, even though it was less than my previous pay, and I made it through with God's help. Tithing is an act of obedience. Obedience demonstrates faith, especially when it doesn't look like it will work out to the good.. Faith reaps blessings because God knows that you truly trust Him.

 

[Poohbear]

In my opinion it is extra. I guess some pastors do it because they feel that people will shirk on their monetary responsibility and those who are able to tithe, wont. tithes also go to keep the church lights on, heat and maintanance, mortgage. If those who have the money to tithe, don't tithe then the church may close and if it closes then it is no good to the community. it's just a building.

I understand that. I am someone that handles the finances for the church that I attend and see where all the money goes. I just wonder with this: What if the majority of your church membership is people with no job? And the pastor has a job outside of preaching and makes the most money out of everyone at the church. As you can probably tell, I'm talking a lot about the church I attend. We have about 40-50 members and most of the members are children ages 15 and under. We hardly have any adults. And the church is not getting any outside aid or help. Should we encourage the adults who don't have jobs to get jobs so they can tithe in order for the church to keep running? And should they be cut off from the body of Christ if they don't have an income to tithe from?

 

[HeChangedMyName]

I understand that. I am someone that handles the finances for the church that I attend and see where all the money goes. I just wonder with this: What if the majority of your church membership is people with no job? And the pastor has a job outside of preaching and makes the most money out of everyone at the church. As you can probably tell, I'm talking a lot about the church I attend. We have about 40-50 members and most of the members are children ages 15 and under. We hardly have any adults. And the church is not getting any outside aid or help. Should we encourage the adults who don't have jobs to get jobs so they can tithe in order for the church to keep running? And should they be cut off from the body of Christ if they don't have an income to tithe from?

It sounds like a serious discussion needs to be had on the reality of the situation. Maybe you all can become a 301(c) and get assistance. However, you may have to take a stand and remind your pastor/father that blessings should be reflected in the body from the top down. If the pastor is blessed, then so too should be the church. . .even in the face of unemployment. I can tell you from my own experience at my church that even during times of financial strife, we have all had to buckle down but our pastor has never been rolling in dough while the members were broke. If your father is tithing his proper tenth, then he can't be upset if the members can't match it. It's not their responsibility. God loves a cheerful giver and if your dad is tithing with disdain, then that sentiment is like cancer and will eat up the church. He sets the tone and if He is saying or doing things that are not directed by God, then in all honesty, your church may suffer for his disobedience, that could mean financially.


ETA: just had an idea. Since a majority of the members are children and maybe the adults don't work, how about encouraging members to go back to school, maybe start a church daycare, that can bring in revenue because you can accept vouchers from the state for working people who can't afford to pay out of pocket.

For the people who can cook, set up some good ole church fish fries to raise money. For those who don't work during the day, set up mid day Bible studies that enable people to be in the Word other than just on Sunday mornings.

 

[Poohbear]

It sounds like a serious discussion needs to be had on the reality of the situation. Maybe you all can become a 301(c) and get assistance. However, you may have to take a stand and remind your pastor/father that blessings should be reflected in the body from the top down. If the pastor is blessed, then so too should be the church. . .even in the face of unemployment. I can tell you from my own experience at my church that even during times of financial strife, we have all had to buckle down but our pastor has never been rolling in dough while the members were broke. If your father is tithing his proper tenth, then he can't be upset if the members can't match it. It's not their responsibility. God loves a cheerful giver and if your dad is tithing with disdain, then that sentiment is like cancer and will eat up the church. He sets the tone and if He is saying or doing things that are not directed by God, then in all honesty, your church may suffer for his disobedience, that could mean financially.

Thank you! I agree. My father does tithe the proper tenth and gives over and beyond that. The thing is, he is also getting paid by the church so it's like he actually gets most of his tithe back. I know in the Bible it says that a pastor should get paid for his work. Right now, the church is suffering financially. Sometimes, my father tends to overspend with the church money on things he feels will benefit the mission on the church. For instance, we've had a couple of pastor anniversary celebrations (which I don't believe in). The church has bought him these very expensive robes to wear (over $500 each). I just think that's too much when he can be just fine not wearing a robe. That's just an example. But I don't know. I try not to worry about it too much but it's hard because I live with my parents and my dad complains about finances of the church everyday literally!