Non-Mainstream Christianity

It is said they didn't know about the Trinity, but it was Jesus Himself who claimed that the Jews of His day knew who they worshiped. How can they not know something so integral? Who other people knew God more than the ones God chose to reveal Himself to?

I believe in Phillipians 2:6. I think that because Jesus came down to Earth as a human being and left His glory, becoming a servant, He purposely addressed God frequently as a seperate entity. Calling Him "My/your Father"" when in reality the whole time He was speaking about Himself. Why do you think He kept on asking His disciples "who did people say He was?"

Jesus said He would not leave us fatherless because He will come to us. Jesus said He personally would raise His Temple, and yet another verse has Jesus indicating that the Father would raise His Temple.

Well, people who are raised around christians, maybe raised from christians and don't know that Jesus is God??? Same thing. We only need put ourselves into that situation and time-span. God has no physical body...and for many people, this was the issue. Some of the learned leaders in the law and Torah knew He was Messiah.

I don't believe He's addressing Himself when He says, "The Father." He said He wasn't greater than the Father. But one reason for all the miracles and fulfillment of the prophecies (and some believe they haven't all been fulfilled) was to demonstrate His Divinity. But it still leads me to ask you what about the Trinity doctrine you believe to be false? Do you believe there is the Son, Father, Holy Spirit?
 
I always get this response from people when I discuss the Trinity. The thing is, I want to know WHO I am worshiping and praying to. Some people tell me not to pray to Jesus but to God the Father. If they are both God, what difference does it make. Even Stephen prayed to Jesus. I do not want to view God as a being with a split personality. I understand that we are human beings with finite minds that cannot possibly comprehend all there is to know about God, but I feel like knowing whether God is triune or singular is pretty important and something we must understand. I mean, even the Bible stated Jesus came so that we can know God. We are the Bride of Christ after all, and who else knows a husband better than his own wife?


Hence, the reason He is a mystery. We will never know it all...only God. Well, I know Him to be. How? I just do. I accept it. And since He is infinitely mysterious and above my created humanity, I accept I'll never know it all about Him. I dunno...that's how it is for me.

In the past, He is "I am." That's where "HaShem" or "The Name" comes from. Did they know all about Him? Absolutely not. Yet, they honored Him. I guess that the way it is. Shrugs. I mean, for that matter, how can you even prove God exists at all...or any of us?
 
Well, people who are raised around christians, maybe raised from christians and don't know that Jesus is God??? Same thing. We only need put ourselves into that situation and time-span. God has no physical body...and for many people, this was the issue. Some of the learned leaders in the law and Torah knew He was Messiah.

I don't believe He's addressing Himself when He says, "The Father." He said He wasn't greater than the Father. But one reason for all the miracles and fulfillment of the prophecies (and some believe they haven't all been fulfilled) was to demonstrate His Divinity. But it still leads me to ask you what about the Trinity doctrine you believe to be false? Do you believe there is the Son, Father, Holy Spirit?

I believe He stated the Father is greater than Him because He humbled Himself when He took on the likeness of humanity; as the Bible states He "emptied Himself."

I believe there is the Son, The Father, and the Holy Spirit are all Jesus.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.
The Holy Spirit is called the Counselor
The Father is called Everlasting.

Yet this verse describes a being called all these things, in the singular.
 
What denomination is that??? Interested in knowing.

You mean my beliefs? Oh, it's no denomination. LOL! It is just what I have personally sort of gathered from reading the Bible. Yet at the same time, I can see how the Trinity fits in with the Bible/biblical verses. Sometimes I believe in the Trinity.

At least the most important thing is to practice what Christ taught and have faith in the end.
 
You mean my beliefs? Oh, it's no denomination. LOL! It is just what I have personally sort of gathered from reading the Bible. Yet at the same time, I can see how the Trinity fits in with the Bible/biblical verses. Sometimes I believe in the Trinity.

At least the most important thing is to practice what Christ taught and have faith in the end.


LOL. I was ready to say, "xyz denomination believes xyz" and know that I heard it from the original source :lachen:. Hey, I'd rather hear things that way than hearsay theology lol then I'd be able to know what I was talking about.
 
I always get this response from people when I discuss the Trinity. The thing is, I want to know WHO I am worshiping and praying to. Some people tell me not to pray to Jesus but to God the Father. If they are both God, what difference does it make. Even Stephen prayed to Jesus. I do not want to view God as a being with a split personality. I understand that we are human beings with finite minds that cannot possibly comprehend all there is to know about God, but I feel like knowing whether God is triune or singular is pretty important and something we must understand. I mean, even the Bible stated Jesus came so that we can know God. We are the Bride of Christ after all, and who else knows a husband better than his own wife?
Wow! I've wondered this exact same thing!!! Why can't it just be that I'm praying to God alone?

People will say pray in the name of Jesus, and he'll take your concerns to God. Some people will say that Jesus is the way/connection between us and God. But there's also people that say that the Holy Spirit will act as an intercessor for you when praying to God....And people will say many more different variations of these statements.
 
My beliefs are slightly different.
I don’t believe in a trinity.
I don’t believe in : the Son only.

Allow me to illustrate what I am saying with the verse 28 of Acts 17 :
Act. 17 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.

It is just an illustration :
Live + move = being
Life (breath of life from the Father) + movement (a body) = living soul
Am I three or just one? I think I am one person.

But the Life is greater than the body or the Word (my word comes from me and represents me, reveals me, but I am greater than my word) :

Prov. 30 3 I neither learned wisdom Nor have knowledge of the Holy One. 4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?

1Cor. 15 23 … Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Rev. 1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
 
For me, He is not one God with 3 heads or 3 persons.
He is the same One and Eternal : YHUH (YHWH)
He is Spirit, the Father.
The Holy Spirit is not a person : He is the Spirit of God in action.
The Father is not a person, He is Spirit, eternal, immortal and invisible.
1Tim. 1 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

The Father(The invisible Spirit) made a flesh (human body), dwells in it to save us : the Son who reveals the Father.

The Father is greater because the Son is the Spirit of the Father in a human body.
The Son is the only person who reveals the Father because His Spirit dwells fully in Him.
Col. 1 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
1Tim.2 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

The set apart Spirit (Holy Spirit or Ruach HaKodesh) is the Spirit of the Father in the Son, and He knows our human weakness.

Jn. 14 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Rom. 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but
the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


*If the Father is a person and the Holy Spirit is another person, the Son has 2 personal fathers!!!

Lu. 35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

*The Son is a person. If the Holy Spirit is another person, those who believe in the Son have 2 persons in them!!!

Jn. 14 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Jn. 20 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
 
Wow! I've wondered this exact same thing!!! Why can't it just be that I'm praying to God alone?

People will say pray in the name of Jesus, and he'll take your concerns to God. Some people will say that Jesus is the way/connection between us and God. But there's also people that say that the Holy Spirit will act as an intercessor for you when praying to God....And people will say many more different variations of these statements.

He Himself told us that. Shrugs. ??? Because Elohim works in union with Himself and all His Persons? Shrugs?

In general:


Person: individual and distinct? If not, why not? Is God a mystery and easily understood by man? If we knew the mind and all mysteries of God, wouldn't that make us Him? Don't laugh, I'm serious.


Also, can people please state their denominations or lack thereof? Are these doctrines you have been taught according to your church or is this your own interpretation based upon your individual understanding? It would help to explain a bit.
 
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The Father(The invisible Spirit) made a flesh (human body), dwells in it to save us : the Son who reveals the Father.

The Father is greater because the Son is the Spirit of the Father in a human body.
The Son is the only person who reveals the Father because His Spirit dwells fully in Him.


This sums up what I believe.

And I also do not believe in denominations.
 
And I also do not believe in denominations.
A lot of problems would be solved if we ask Our Father directly and sincerely and wait (plus accept) the answer. God only has two categories of people: His children and the ones who are not.
 
A lot of problems would be solved if we ask Our Father directly and sincerely and wait (plus accept) the answer. God only has two categories of people: His children and the ones who are not.

Nymphe,

If one does that, how will one know that God is actually responding? How will you truly know it?
 
Nymphe,

If one does that, how will one know that God is actually responding? How will you truly know it?

This is true. I mean, most people who start yet another denomination claim it was God Himself who told them to. And although we hate to admit it, many times people will claim that "God told me the answer" when it was what they already had in mind.
 
Even in my own faith/religion, it's by consensus but that's a long, looooong process. But ultimately, you have to come to the individual conclusion that what you're taught is true and that you not only believe, but are bound by it. And you go to the same book for the answer and it's based upon those councils who base the councils on the scripture, coming to a uniformity. Anywhere I go in the world (of course, individual ppl can say whatever), it's the same service with the basic same elements of the faith that are unchanging, no matter the culture but I go to a book that governs the Church per se ...explaining the meaning...much like the Mishnah/Gemara of the Talmud for Judaism. I'm just trying to explain how my view differs and why sometimes I don't comprehend. It's my search and desire to understand how others come to their truth. I guess it's the same thing because you sometimes wonder if you do have the best, most complete answer, esp. when there is a shift lol. I eveb wonder just how much we'll know in heaven.
 
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Nymphe,

If one does that, how will one know that God is actually responding? How will you truly know it?
1) The Holy Spirit, 2) the Bible, and 3) faith (trust in His will). As to what form it comes in, that is His choice. You can always ask for multiple confirmations afterward, but without those three things, you get 3900 leavenings we see today (Matthew 16:6, Matthew 16:12, Mark 8:15, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Galatians 5:9).
 
This is true. I mean, most people who start yet another denomination claim it was God Himself who told them to. And although we hate to admit it, many times people will claim that "God told me the answer" when it was what they already had in mind.
No matter how spiritually mature we get, we should still go to Him as a child seeking knowledge and approval. We in the flesh tend to get distracted by our position and/or knowledge over others. Jesus warned us about that (Matthew 11:11, Matthew 20:25-27, Mark 10:42-44, Luke 7:28).
 
1) The Holy Spirit, 2) the Bible, and 3) faith (trust in His will). As to what form it comes in, that is His choice. You can always ask for multiple confirmations afterward, but without those three things, you get 3900 leavenings we see today (Matthew 16:6, Matthew 16:12, Mark 8:15, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Galatians 5:9).

I listed the scriptures you provided below. Please know that my questions are sincere. But how they illustrate the question, not clear. So, to the question again and I'll rephrase it, if I read something in scripture but do not know what it's talking about or if I look at a situation and wonder what the right thing is to do or believe is and I rely upon faith that 1)He'll tell me and 2) the Holy Spirit will inspire me to truth personally and individually (and I know that scripture can directly confirm many things..say, crime), how will I know that I have received that confirmation according to how you know (or anyone else for that matter) you have received a truthful unerring confirmation? You obviously don't rely upon a denomination to set it in stone for you but worship in small groups (well, either you or another...maybe I'm confusing you two). So, ....what....how...???

Do you ask for some specific one or is it a feeling etc. that you sense? Series of events? Some who claim to have the Holy Spirit confirm for them have been proven later on to have been deceived. There are many t.v. evangelists that can be named but I won't. That's my question.

Leavenings? Hopefully, that's not some slightly veiled accusation..never my intent to draw one. As I said, I'm sincere in my questioning and my purpose is comprehension of others, not to convert out from my faith nor to draw others to mine. I want to know that other viewpoint and to know that I learned it because I heard it from the source. I hate third-party theology. Incidentally, in past, I thought I had come to know many truths but only to find later that they were not - not whole truths. So, was God in that or was He not? It was refined and led to another path. I could have sworn that God told me directly in my feeling, inside...but only to find that, later, it was not the full truth or not the truth at all. See what I mean? I know we all have to come to a faith or conclusion that it is true about God but the process is my concern.


Sigh, and the more I edit to make this very "succinct" (yeah, right lol), it's growing bigger. Sorry about that...but this very issue is stated on this list often and no one has truly explained just how it works for them.


Luke 6:12-16

Listen to this passage
View commentary related to this passage

The Twelve Apostles

12One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Mark 8:15 (New International Version)

15"Be careful," Jesus warned them. "Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod."

1 Corinthians 5:6 (New International Version)


6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?



Galatians 5:9 (New International Version)

9"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."
 
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Second part (sorry lol)

And so, with SND, Poohbear's and Crown's unbelief in the Trinity concept and my belief in it since it was what was presented to me as the truth, we come to our own conclusions...even with me though I just agreed. At some point, I have to feel somehow inwardly that it is truth. But how would one know absolutely that it's the Holy Spirit? And it's all like a gamble until the end that we believed and lived it to be true, that we were on the right path all along, even though each of our paths are different.


Some will say, "scripture." But if the scripture is interpreted differently...??? What is there are many levels of meanings? Do not murder, yet a mother needs an abortion to preserve her life? Remember the discussion about scripture calling us to meet as a community in worship? Some said that's not a physical church building, some say it's not necessarily a spiritual little group because some believe they don't have to at all, just go it alone by themselves. Do their lives change for the better as fruit and evidence? If yes, then like that.
 
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@ Crown... interesting yet confusing post at the same time. :spinning:


He Himself told us that. Shrugs. ??? Because Elohim works in union with Himself and all His Persons? Shrugs?

In general:


Person: individual and distinct? If not, why not? Is God a mystery and easily understood by man? If we knew the mind and all mysteries of God, wouldn't that make us Him? Don't laugh, I'm serious.


Also, can people please state their denominations or lack thereof? Are these doctrines you have been taught according to your church or is this your own interpretation based upon your individual understanding? It would help to explain a bit.

You're right. Jesus does say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." in John 14:6...

Good question. After reflecting on this concept of trinity, it almost has me thinking we all make up God if Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us and the Father breathed life into us...

I grew up in the Baptist denomination of "church", but I no longer associate myself with denominations.
 
Second part (sorry lol)

And so, with SND, Poohbear's and Crown's unbelief in the Trinity concept and my belief in it since it was what was presented to me as the truth, we come to our own conclusions...even with me though I just agreed. At some point, I have to feel somehow inwardly that it is truth. But how would one know absolutely that it's the Holy Spirit? And it's all like a gamble until the end that we believed and lived it to be true, that we were on the right path all along, even though each of our paths are different.


Some will say, "scripture." But if the scripture is interpreted differently...??? What is there are many levels of meanings? Do not murder, yet a mother needs an abortion to preserve her life? Remember the discussion about scripture calling us to meet as a community in worship? Some said that's not a physical church building, some say it's not necessarily a spiritual little group because some believe they don't have to at all, just go it alone by themselves. Do their lives change for the better as fruit and evidence? If yes, then like that.

What about comparing Scripture with Scripture. Many truths come out of the Bible by comparing one truth in light of the entire WORD.
 
Second part (sorry lol)

And so, with SND, Poohbear's and Crown's unbelief in the Trinity concept and my belief in it since it was what was presented to me as the truth, we come to our own conclusions...even with me though I just agreed. At some point, I have to feel somehow inwardly that it is truth. But how would one know absolutely that it's the Holy Spirit? And it's all like a gamble until the end that we believed and lived it to be true, that we were on the right path all along, even though each of our paths are different.


Some will say, "scripture." But if the scripture is interpreted differently...??? What is there are many levels of meanings? Do not murder, yet a mother needs an abortion to preserve her life? Remember the discussion about scripture calling us to meet as a community in worship? Some said that's not a physical church building, some say it's not necessarily a spiritual little group because some believe they don't have to at all, just go it alone by themselves. Do their lives change for the better as fruit and evidence? If yes, then like that.
I didn't say I didn't believe in trinity. I actually have been taught to believe in it and was trying to explain how it was taught to me. ;)

I remember a few years ago posting John 1:1-14 as a scripture to support trinity, however, another poster said she saw this same scripture as not supporting the trinity concept. She didn't believe Jesus was God. She was of the Oneness Pentacostal denomination.
 
Why Can't We?

There is one question I am asked most often, one question that tops the list each and every time, and that question is, ‘what has the Lord been showing you lately?’ In recent years, I have made it a habit, to answer this question with the same exact question, and the response I get varies from a shrug of the shoulders, to a rolling of the eyes, to a look of indignation and the ever present, ‘what do you mean? You’re the one that the Lord shows things to.’

I believe one of the greatest setbacks in today’s Christian thinking, is that God speaks only to a select few, or works only through a select few. God speaks to all of us, in greater or lesser measure, and He works through all whose vessels are clean, and who are willing to submit themselves to His authority. We have been living in the land of spiritual surrogacy for so long, that we’ve assigned others to look after all of our spiritual needs. If we need prayer, we have prayer warriors we can go to and ask to pray for us. If we desire understanding of a certain Biblical passage, we have theologians who are eager to offer their interpretation. If we desire a word from the Lord, there’s someone for that too, and all it takes is a phone call or a short drive to see what the Lord is saying. When we practice spiritual surrogacy, when we outsource our spiritual needs to others, it cuts down on the need for an intimate and personal relationship, it cuts down on the hours we ought to have spent on our knees, in prayer, and in reading the Word, but even though it saves time, it is by no means beneficial for our spiritual man.

We read the Word of God, we read of the miracles, we read of the power, we read of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, then by simply juxtaposing the early church to today’s modern church, one question inevitably leaps out: ‘Why aren’t we seeing these things today? Why can’t we do what they did?’

Most believers choose to gloss over this all important question, because it takes a humble heart and a painful honesty to acknowledge that men and women two thousand years ago were closer to God, saw more of the power of God, and experienced more of the presence of God than we are in our modern age. The ‘can do’ attitude has ensconced itself upon the throne of many believers’ hearts, and if they can’t do something, well it’s because it can’t be done.

‘Nope, God doesn’t do that anymore. Because He’s not doing it through me, because I am not seeing miracles, because I do not know the power of the Holy Spirit, the logical conclusion is that they no longer exist. Surely if they existed, I would be the first in line, asking for a double portion. It can’t be me, it couldn’t be me. My self esteem is tip top, and my positive attitude has never been more positive. Ergo, scrap the book of Acts, blot out all the passages referring to healings, miracles, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the repeated assertion by none other than Christ Jesus that the Comforter would be with us until the end of time, because if I’m not experiencing it, than no one on the face of the earth is.’

It takes a certain kind of narcissistic pride, and a helping of shameless arrogance to conclude that if I am not experiencing something, than it is impossible for anyone else to.

‘We’re the American church dear sir! We are the fountainhead of newfangled doctrine, progressive theology, humanistic dogma, surely if anyone in the world were to know the fullness of the power of God, it would be us. Why would God choose some poverty stricken third world folks, who aren’t even allowed to practice their faith in their country, who are beaten and tortured, persecuted and despised? They don’t have the resources to get the message out; they don’t have the know-how to run a successful publicity campaign, and don’t even get me started on interfaith relations and tolerance toward opposing views. We are the logical choice to experience the fullness of God’s power, to use it, abuse it, monetize it and profit from it, and since we are not, well then it just doesn’t exist anymore. That stuff about God choosing the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and the weak things of the world to put to shame the mighty, well that’s just hyperbole.’

The lack of power in the house of God is obvious to one and all, as is the lack of character in the lives of some who call themselves children of God. These two things are interconnected, and one of the reasons we are not seeing the power of God, is because we are lacking the requisite purity, the requisite righteousness that is demanded of those who would be used of Him.

Another reason the power of God is absent from many of today’s churches, another reason why we can’t do what the primary church did is because we are lacking that true, living and abiding faith that God requires of us. Living faith is not about what I can do, but about what He can do. Once we’ve bought into the notion that we can do it, we can manufacture it, and we can make it happen, we’ve already lost out on any chance of seeing the true power of God.

If all things are possible to those who believe, then the painful truth is that we are not seeing the power of God manifest in our churches because we do not believe. Saving faith brings salvation by way of the cross, but living by faith and in faith brings the power of God by way of the Holy Spirit.

As we go down the list of the reasons we are not seeing the power of God in today’s churches, I would be remiss if I did not include the lack of a prayer life. From individuals, to families to entire congregations we have tried to replace prayer with other activities, be they spiritual or otherwise, ignoring the fact that there can be no replacing prayer in the life of a believer. If Jesus couldn’t find something to replace prayer with, if the Son of God would go off on His own and pray for hours on end, what pray tell makes us more special, more spiritual, and more knowledgeable that we can so flippantly dismiss prayer as nothing more than a waste of time?

Jesus didn’t teach His disciples homiletics, He did not teach His disciples hermeneutics, He did not teach His disciples apologetics, inflection, cadence, or speech delivery. Jesus taught His disciples how to pray!

We do not see the power of God in the churches today, because the churches have actively and successfully abolished and done away with prayer. Add to the absence of prayer the absence of fasting as well, and the reasons we are not seeing the power of God manifesting itself in the churches are evident to all.

There are certain practices in our Christian walk that are indispensable. Having a prayer life and fasting are two of those indispensable things. When Jesus preached His sermon on the mount, He did not begin it by saying, ‘if you pray, or if you fast’ but rather, ‘when you pray, go into your room and when you have shut the door pray to your Father who is in the secret place, and when you fast do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance.’

It was not ‘if’ it was ‘when’!

The reason we are not seeing the power of God as the primary church did is not because it is no longer available to us, but rather because we are not doing what is required of us in order to experience it. The primary church was formed in an atmosphere of prayer and fasting, in an atmosphere of dependency upon God and righteousness. It was then than the fullness of the power of the Holy Spirit came upon them, it was then that they went everywhere preaching the Word and performing miracles.

Throughout the Word, whether it be individuals or churches, from the church of Antioch, to Paul, to Jesus Himself, we see the running themes of prayer, fasting, purity of heart and dependency upon God. We cannot hope to experience the power of God today, unless we return to the selfsame practices, the selfsame goal, and the selfsame hunger for God as the primary church.

God is not to blame for the impotence that is running rampant in today’s churches. God is not to blame for the powerlessness that is evident in today’s congregations. God is the same, yesterday, today and forevermore and if we must place blame on someone, if we must lay the burden of our impotence and powerlessness at someone’s feet, than we need look no further than the nearest mirror.

With love in Christ,
Michael Boldea Jr.
 
Deu 6:4
(4) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Joh 10:30
(30) I and my Father are one.

1Jn 5:7
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Joh 1:1&14
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 14:9
(9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

1Ti 3:16
(16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
My two cents, I believe what the bible says. The father, son and holy spirit or one. but have different parts. jesus is God in the flesh. God is a spirit as is the holy spirit but each play a important role. I pray to the father in Jesus name acknowledging that without jesus there is no hope. Jesus is my access to the thrown. Amen... As for scriptures. The bible is designed for research. Each week I take notes and go home and study them I love, love, love my church and my pastor because I get tons of scriptures to explain a thing. Some things are exact that what it says and some things you must do research to find the meaning. Like Jacob. why did God Change his name. Why does God say he will give all of us that are saved and called to his purpose a new name. Well lets see what is the character of Jacob, then look at his mother and her family line. the Issiac and his. Liars.. Oh yeah, conniving. Swindler. But God change his name because he was not those things anymore. However if you continue to read in the bible when Jacob became a dead man, because he never could get over the "death" of Joseph. How is name was Jacob. Not Isreal. it was Jacob. When he learned that his son was alive, He came alive again. He understood all that God was doing and his name became Isreal. right now I am saying praises to God. Because we dont always understand what God is doing in our life and it doesn't always make sense but if we keep on the path that he has set before us we will finally get to see what it was all worth. THats the fun part. sitting down and going over the scriptures, underlining a passage that gives you some difficulty. Praying first. Then getting your research on. You will find that God is so awesome and so marvelous and his plan is the only plan. Well I can go on and on. but I loved the story of Jacob. Why didn't God tell Jacob, Joseph was alive? I could shout on this part alone.
 
My two cents, I believe what the bible says. The father, son and holy spirit or one. but have different parts. jesus is God in the flesh. God is a spirit as is the holy spirit but each play a important role. I pray to the father in Jesus name acknowledging that without jesus there is no hope. Jesus is my access to the thrown. Amen... As for scriptures. The bible is designed for research. Each week I take notes and go home and study them I love, love, love my church and my pastor because I get tons of scriptures to explain a thing. Some things are exact that what it says and some things you must do research to find the meaning. Like Jacob. why did God Change his name. Why does God say he will give all of us that are saved and called to his purpose a new name. Well lets see what is the character of Jacob, then look at his mother and her family line. the Issiac and his. Liars.. Oh yeah, conniving. Swindler. But God change his name because he was not those things anymore. However if you continue to read in the bible when Jacob became a dead man, because he never could get over the "death" of Joseph. How is name was Jacob. Not Isreal. it was Jacob. When he learned that his son was alive, He came alive again. He understood all that God was doing and his name became Isreal. right now I am saying praises to God. Because we dont always understand what God is doing in our life and it doesn't always make sense but if we keep on the path that he has set before us we will finally get to see what it was all worth. THats the fun part. sitting down and going over the scriptures, underlining a passage that gives you some difficulty. Praying first. Then getting your research on. You will find that God is so awesome and so marvelous and his plan is the only plan. Well I can go on and on. but I loved the story of Jacob. Why didn't God tell Jacob, Joseph was alive? I could shout on this part alone.

Blazingthru, are you saying the Father has changed the name Jacob for Israel after Jacob knew his son Joseph was alive? Is it in another book?
When reading the Scriptures, the name has been changed many years before the episode of Joseph in Egypt.


Gen. 32.24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 32.25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 32.26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 32.27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 32.28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

I read Israel means :
"God wrestler", "He has striven with God (El)" or "He has been saved by God"... or what is written in Gen. 32:28
 
@ Crown... interesting yet confusing post at the same time. :spinning:
...

Please, help me understand why and which one is confusing.
For me the doctrine trinity (by the way, First Concil of Nicaea, more than 300 years after the Messiah) is confusing.
 
Please, help me understand why and which one is confusing.
For me the doctrine trinity (by the way, First Concil of Nicaea, more than 300 years after the Messiah) is confusing.

These two statements of yours made me confused:

Crown said:
*If the Father is a person and the Holy Spirit is another person, the Son has 2 personal fathers!!!

*The Son is a person. If the Holy Spirit is another person, those who believe in the Son have 2 persons in them!!!

Can you explain what you mean by those statements? I've never seen the Holy Spirit referred to as the father of the Son. I've only seen The Father as the father of the Son...

And I also wonder if The Son and The Holy Spirit dwells in believers, what about The Father? Does The Father dwell in believers as well?

And what is the difference between The Council of Nicea's doctrine of Trinity and the Bible's concept of Trinity? Wouldn't they be the same since the Council of Nicea are the ones who canonized the Bible anyway?
 
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