JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Apartheid

DoDo

Big Hair, Don't Care
Well here is the article:


"A Response – Why # TeamNatural is for Everyone, Not Just Black Women

Show of hands – Do you agree and advocate that there should be spaces reserved for black people to discuss thoughts and ideas central to our culture and that these spaces should be to the exclusion of other races? Yes, no, maybe? Now, substitute the word black with white in that first sentence and read it again, seriously do it now! Do you realise that we are discussing apartheid? If you believe that the principles of apartheid were racist, then when black people do it, it is also racist.

Now let me explain to why it is that I believe that we as the natural community should be inclusive and not exclusive:

1. We are individuals not a collective, a white girl could relate to your experience
It is absolutely not true that every black woman can identify with a journey to self love, some of us can’t. Some of us actually grew up being told that we were beautiful as we are and our hair was beautiful as it is. It is a very myopic point of view to think that black people as a collective have the same journey, we don’t, we are individuals.

Some white women would actually be able to identify with that journey to self love because, ‘Curly hair is generally not cute past the age of 10.’ These words came from my white friend who beat her curls into submission with daily blowouts and flat ironing for 20 years. Some black people are conditioned to think a type 3 curl is the ultimate aka good hair, while some white girls are taught that poker straight hair is the ultimate good hair and their type 3 curls are ugly.

The reason why some #teamnatural stories resonate across the board is because it is not about race. It is about the ability to empathise as human beings to see how damaging it can be to be pounded down with a message that you are not good enough as you are.

2. Those who can teach!
Ultimately the nucleus of the natural community is hair. We celebrate and advocate for the beauty of natural hair Do you recall posts such as these white dads who really can do hair – here and here or the white mom who doesn’t want her black daughters hair touched – here . Many white moms and dads who have black or mixed race children will be right here trying to learn and do what is best for their children.

I have an elephant’s memory and I can recall on the old blogspot version of this blog where curly girl YSheena was originally featured and a white mom asked how she could get her daughter’s frizzy hair that she was considering chemically straightening to look like Ysheena’s which was ‘pretty and curly’. Commenters tore this lady to pieces and she of course disappeared. This predatory knee jerk reaction fails to educate and if you ever have the opportunity to, you should educate first, condemn last. How many black mothers have done the same?

I want an inclusive space because I advocate for children. Children with non-black parents who are keen on learning deserve a welcoming space both for parent and child. Exclusion is a disservice to the parents and the children.

3. Practice what you preach
If you find a natural site, you will almost always find articles about lack of acceptance of natural hair by others in the community, white and non white for example:
-Case of the doctor perpetually insulting the patient’s natural hair
-Case of the guy with locs who dislikes his girlfriend’s natural hair
-Case of the boss who said her natural hair looked like a troll doll

It would surprise some of you but many of these comments are said not in blatant racism but usually in ignorance. Ignorance that natural hair is actually the default and most ‘normal’ version of your hair. My husband who is white actually thought that black people mostly had straight hair. If you grew up in his home town where there was exactly 1 black girl, and the imagery you received from TV was all relaxed hair and weaves, what would you think?

Natural hair is not mainstream despite the explosion of the natural world and in all honesty it is not going to be unless we begin to tell our stories to the mainstream which happens to be white if you live in North America and Europe. If you want acceptance, you need to start accepting others into your clique otherwise why should they care about your stories, how would they see their poignancy and relevance?

The Conclusion : Since I started this piece with an apartheid reference, I will end it with some wise words that I liberated from the eternal sage Nelson Mandela, ‘ To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.’"

-BGLH

Normally I like Jc and the information from her blog but, :shocked:.

The responses on bglh are numerous to say the least :spinning:.
 

Foxglove

A drop of golden sun
Since I started this piece with an apartheid reference, I will end it with some wise words that I liberated from the eternal sage Nelson Mandela, ‘ To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.’

Respect goes both ways. Until these people start respecting us I have no desire to include them
 

Mz.MoMo5235

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

This was well written.
 

Urban

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I can't even. I know people that experienced apartheid. This is bullcrap!!
 

robot.

New Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

Goddammit.
 

greight

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I can't even. I know people that experienced apartheid. This is bullcrap!!

Why do people even bother with apartheid and slavery references? It's embarrassing the analogy was thought of, let alone written.
 

BranwenRosewood

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

https://www.facebook.com/TheREALKolaBoof

Kola Boof has a response to this CN/Felicity mess.

I'll paste it here since it's not the latest post.
Kola Boof

July 3 · Edited

BLACK AMERICA

I don't get to walk in White people's private spaces and say: "You know, I identify with you, therefore I AM you."

White Women....and Black Women don't have the same type of hair. So this entire debate with Curly Nikki is ***-backwards typical USA camel ****. I posted the article in Ebony by Jamilah Lemieux because anybody with common sense and motherwit could see Jamilah was right.

Me personally, I think this is going to get much worse for Black Americans. And I blame centuries of being raised on White people's 1 drop rule. This entire way of thinking goes back to that slave tenet....that there is no definition of Blackness.

Yet everybody else is clearly defined.

Whether it's casting a movie role or promoting "natural hair" beauty, the actual Blacks go on the bottom or in the back. It's the same ****. A Filipino woman in Oakland (who has 0 black blood) was chosen to represent Nubian Queens on a float in a parade. And on Hot 97 radio in NYC, a black man is calling white women, "White Nubian Queens."

Are yall woke?

Most Black American people are just not ready to deconstruct this problem that has been brewing for centuries in USA. They cling to the notion that Blackness is simply a state of mind...anybody can access that mind-set and BE IT; represent it. You notice the AAs love to say: "Well she/he identifies with".....like that means ****.

Of course...it never goes both ways. I don't get to be "Miss Japan" or "Miss Swedish-America" on a float. Hell no.

And the more that "Faux Black" folks begin to have WHITE MOTHERS and Non-Black Mothers, this **** is going to get more and more contentious with all the power and representation going to ...guess who?

Meanwhile, Real Black folks who have 2 Black parents (or a black & a mixed parent) will be pushed to the back; eased to the bottom....told that they aren't the ones who define blackness....

THIS is why I'm the way I am. I don't adopt the AA plantation tradition. I firmly reject it. Because I can see clearly how it's destroying AAs and how it encourages them to breed out; to erase self. I can see how they keep changing the definition of "Black" to accommodate everybody but Black people.

I can't go in White People's homes and announce "I identity with you, therefore I AM you".....hell no.

This is NO LONGER the Jim Crow era. And AAs need to begin the PAINFUL work of adjusting how they're going to identify themselves because quite frankly...the infiltration by OTHER MOTHERS and their children (who ride in 2 boats) is putting your black *** right where you were to begin with...the bottom.

At some point...."Actual Blacks" have to define Blackness in ORGANIC terms and begin closing ranks to protect their representation and their power of their own group. I mean, seriously, how many White Presidents of the NAACP Chapters do you need in order to feel that you're inclusive and no-racist.

"Oh but, Kola they jess as black as I am...and Bill Clinton was the first black President. Dey identify with us!"

To me, you just seem like a slave. The **** is pitiful.

Let these White women & their "Hair adventures" not displace our social struggle to be ourselves and to assert our blackness. Their blues ain't like ours. They don't go through **** compared to what we with The Helix (nappy African hair) go through. White women & Non-Black women are FREE as fresh air compared to us. And sisters or not, we need less White Supremacy...not more of it.
 

HappyAtLast

Simplicity & Peacefulness
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

They dont get. THEY STILL DON'T GET IT!


Well here is the article:


"A Response – Why # TeamNatural is for Everyone, Not Just Black Women

Show of hands – Do you agree and advocate that there should be spaces reserved for black people to discuss thoughts and ideas central to our culture and that these spaces should be to the exclusion of other races? Yes, no, maybe? Now, substitute the word black with white in that first sentence and read it again, seriously do it now! Do you realise that we are discussing apartheid? If you believe that the principles of apartheid were racist, then when black people do it, it is also racist.

Now let me explain to why it is that I believe that we as the natural community should be inclusive and not exclusive:

1. We are individuals not a collective, a white girl could relate to your experience
It is absolutely not true that every black woman can identify with a journey to self love, some of us can’t. Some of us actually grew up being told that we were beautiful as we are and our hair was beautiful as it is. It is a very myopic point of view to think that black people as a collective have the same journey, we don’t, we are individuals.

Some white women would actually be able to identify with that journey to self love because, ‘Curly hair is generally not cute past the age of 10.’ These words came from my white friend who beat her curls into submission with daily blowouts and flat ironing for 20 years. Some black people are conditioned to think a type 3 curl is the ultimate aka good hair, while some white girls are taught that poker straight hair is the ultimate good hair and their type 3 curls are ugly.

The reason why some #teamnatural stories resonate across the board is because it is not about race. It is about the ability to empathise as human beings to see how damaging it can be to be pounded down with a message that you are not good enough as you are.

2. Those who can teach!
Ultimately the nucleus of the natural community is hair. We celebrate and advocate for the beauty of natural hair Do you recall posts such as these white dads who really can do hair – here and here or the white mom who doesn’t want her black daughters hair touched – here . Many white moms and dads who have black or mixed race children will be right here trying to learn and do what is best for their children.

I have an elephant’s memory and I can recall on the old blogspot version of this blog where curly girl YSheena was originally featured and a white mom asked how she could get her daughter’s frizzy hair that she was considering chemically straightening to look like Ysheena’s which was ‘pretty and curly’. Commenters tore this lady to pieces and she of course disappeared. This predatory knee jerk reaction fails to educate and if you ever have the opportunity to, you should educate first, condemn last. How many black mothers have done the same?

I want an inclusive space because I advocate for children. Children with non-black parents who are keen on learning deserve a welcoming space both for parent and child. Exclusion is a disservice to the parents and the children.

3. Practice what you preach
If you find a natural site, you will almost always find articles about lack of acceptance of natural hair by others in the community, white and non white for example:
-Case of the doctor perpetually insulting the patient’s natural hair
-Case of the guy with locs who dislikes his girlfriend’s natural hair
-Case of the boss who said her natural hair looked like a troll doll

It would surprise some of you but many of these comments are said not in blatant racism but usually in ignorance. Ignorance that natural hair is actually the default and most ‘normal’ version of your hair. My husband who is white actually thought that black people mostly had straight hair. If you grew up in his home town where there was exactly 1 black girl, and the imagery you received from TV was all relaxed hair and weaves, what would you think?

Natural hair is not mainstream despite the explosion of the natural world and in all honesty it is not going to be unless we begin to tell our stories to the mainstream which happens to be white if you live in North America and Europe. If you want acceptance, you need to start accepting others into your clique otherwise why should they care about your stories, how would they see their poignancy and relevance?

The Conclusion : Since I started this piece with an apartheid reference, I will end it with some wise words that I liberated from the eternal sage Nelson Mandela, ‘ To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.’"

-BGLH

Normally I like Jc and the information from her blog but, :shocked:.

The responses on bglh are numerous to say the least :spinning:.
 

Mz.MoMo5235

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

Force so strong I clicked the link to follow!!!!
 

krikit96

Well-Known Member
This is ridiculous tho... I liken it to the non black people that say ignorant stuff like, "How come it's okay for YOU guys to use the n-word, but we can't?". Or, " If it's so bad for us to use the n-word, why do y'all use it if it's so bad? "

Their complete sense of entitlement and the anger they feel at the resistance of the black community to include them, is exactly why the answer should be no.

If you're caring for a black kids hair, fine, read all you want, learn to do your child hair... but what you WON'T do, is act like you yourself can relate to any of our experiences, just because your hair is curly... White curly and Latina curly AIN'T the same as our curly, coily, kinky hair; and even if they don't prefer their own curly, it's always been more accepted than OUR version.

Why aren't they trying to join any of the Jewish only groups and why isn't THAT a big deal? The native American Indians are ALL about exclusion, they have their stuff on lockdown and are fighting the nfl over something right now... This is how black people and their own culture and inventions end up getting "columbussed" and how folks like Iggy azalea, Robin thicke, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, macklemore, etc... End up winning all the categories as the best r&b, best rap artist, etc, in a predominantly black category. You mean to tell me Kendrick Lamar isn't a better rapper than iggy? Than macklemore? Really?

They are taking over everything f.u.b.u because Black's want to include them in everything! They took over America. They are the ones with no boundaries... I don't see Koreans being infiltrated like black's... Why are black's so easily ready to let them in and share everything? How do you self preserve then?
 
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claudzie

Strolling with Unicorns
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

Kola Boof may have her crazy ways but when she is right, she is right!
 

claudzie

Strolling with Unicorns
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

But seriously, when this Natural hair movement begun, people dismissed it as 'just a trend'. Now that it is proving itself as a serious cause/movement, we have people arguing about inclusion/exclusion? Where was inclusion/exclusion when the good hair v bad hair debate was ongoing? Where was this debate when 'nappy' was the joke of the century, were people then asking to be included? But now that all of that has been turned into a positive thing now people want to argue, reclaim and talk about inclusion etc

Apartheid though? for real?:rolleyes::perplexed
 

lalla

Well-Known Member
People need to stop comparing everything with apartheid. I find this frankly disrespectful.

Being a second class citizen in your own country, being treated like a guinea pig, killed when you dare protest, being expropriated and tortured were just a few elements of apartheid.
I can't believe people dare compare this, the suffering and death of thousands to a spoiled woman complaining about her hair...
I hate to make those comparisons but I don't think a Jew would compare such a trivial issue to the holocaust or a pogrom.
 

Saludable84

Better Late Than Ugly
Why is it a problem for us to just want to have something? The minute we get something we are supposed to let everyone in with open hands. If anything, what we can learn from the exclusivity of other ethnicities is to be nicer to outsiders, help them, but they don't need to be in included. And I don't mean that in a harsh way.

And people want to speak about helping others outside our community, but how about we fix our community before we start lending a helping hand others. I've always heard the saying "that's why black people can't have anything!" Because the minute we try, there is always something that tears us apart. We have to build our community up and the only way that can happen is by defining our people, accepting them and supporting them. Making us stronger.

There is an episode of Family Guy when Lois gets a job at Fox and peter uses it an as opportunity to create his own cartoon. The executive told him he had to change a bunch of stuff but would pick up the show. Peter refused. For as long as this show has been on, Seth McFarlane has been vocal about a lot of things. Might not be the greatest example, but the moral is that if we really feel strong about something why not continue with making it stronger and building our audience regardless to whom feelings it may hurt. There will always be a sell-out, someone who will speak before they talk, etc, but that's everywhere. We just have to stick to our guns and make us stronger. I'm all for that.

Since I've been young I've been preached to that we need to be stronger as we are the most broken community. I take all this crap going as a major sign we need fix it. I am very much about building out community and I will stand by that.
 

NaturallyATLPCH

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

Apartheid? Really? :rolleyes:

People are entitled to their opinion. But I have my opinion too; this, although well written to voice her opinion, is ignorant, in MY opinion.

Yet another blogger I have unsubscribed to.
 

overtherainbow

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I stopped reading when she makes her first comparison to apartheid. No. No. This has gone way too far.:nono:
I would like all of my favorite bloggers to stop responding to this matter before I end up unsubbing from everybody. :nono:
 

Leeda.the.Paladin

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I love JC and I think she's a wonderful resource….but I can't agree with this.
 

Ogoma

Well-Known Member
I stopped reading when she makes her first comparison to apartheid. No. No. This has gone way too far.:nono: I would like all of my favorite bloggers to stop responding to this matter before I end up unsubbing from everybody. :nono:

I didn't even read it. I refuse to be annoyed.
 

IDareT'sHair

PJ Rehabilitation Center
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I was listening to NPR the other day and they were talking about the Essence Festival going on in New Orleans and how it's been an Annual event for over 20years to showcase Black Artist.

And how it should be more "Inclusive" of other Artist and how Black people should no longer think of the Essence Festival as a totally Black Festival. (Times have Changed)

And white people were wondering why the Essence Festival wasn't more "open" to various Artist performing and how Rhythm and Blues has basically been totally replaced by Hip Hop and Electro-"whatever" dance music and how Black People need to....should....gone have to.....Get Over it..... Basically.:perplexed

Moral of the Story: They tryna' disenfranchise us of the last remnants of being Black & Proud
 

LdyKamz

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

This blog post was ludicrous for several reasons. The only thought I can really get out without going on a major long rant is, the examples she used were about non black women looking for hair care tips for their BLACK children. I bet not a one of them were up in there looking for tips on their own hair.

Why people cannot grasp the concept that this space is sacred to most black women is beyond me. Ok, she didn't go through the crap that other black women did with self acceptance. Fine. However she can't deny that most black women go through it and it is a major point in this natural hair movement. It kills me that certain people are talking about how black women are dismissing this white girls struggle and other nonsense when this white girl is basically doing the same -minimizing our experiences just so she can be included in something that doesn't apply to her- and she's not giving two fuggs about it. But no one is focusing on that. Just us and how mean we are for keeping the white girl out. Damn shame. It's embarrassing as hell that some black women are cosigning this bs.
 
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felic1

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

The natural hair movement is about members of a certain ethnic group. We are acting to accept, enjoy and celebrate our hair. While discussing what actions we take when grooming our hair with others may break down barriers between ethnic groups, it does not mean that they can become part of our group. Others may comment on what we may do but they cannot state that curly means nappy. I do not believe that one white woman with curly hair is denied employment, housing, credit, or other types of access because of hair or skin color. We are not practicing apartheid by not placing them in our area of concern. Our hair and skin is a true indication of " we were born this way". Until you are born with this hair you cannot be part of the group. You can hear and listen and try to comprehend, but birth puts you in team natural. Don't they have enough areas of entitlement?
 
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juliansmom

Well-Known Member
wow. I love jcs blog and she's usually on point but she needs to stick with what she knows best..science. This article literally disgusts me.
 

Froreal3

haulin hard in the paint
Stick to science JC. :rolleyes:

#stayinyourlane #no1curr #sticktoyourdayjob #fallback #haveaseat

Sent from my Snow White Frost Galaxy S4 using LHCF
 

greight

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

I remember reading a comment yesterday that spoke to me about this whole saga:

It went like "Why do we have to include non-black women into the conversation when these women don't protest and fight for the right all types of beauty (including black women) to be represented in the first place?" Seriously. These folks are advocating here and there for this inclusion....meanwhile, most times I see BW represented, it is because there was either a black writer (Shonda Rhimes), a black producer (Mara Brock Akil), or some black-owned entity backing it.
 

MzRhonda

Well-Known Member
Re: JC of the Natural Haven compares exclusion from the Natural Community to Aparthei

But seriously, when this Natural hair movement begun, people dismissed it as 'just a trend'. Now that it is proving itself as a serious cause/movement, we have people arguing about inclusion/exclusion? Where was inclusion/exclusion when the good hair v bad hair debate was ongoing? Where was this debate when 'nappy' was the joke of the century, were people then asking to be included? But now that all of that has been turned into a positive thing now people want to argue, reclaim and talk about inclusion etc

Apartheid though? for real?:rolleyes::perplexed

It's all about the money....."they" see this as a money maker for "them" you can tell from all of the various products coming out for our natural hair that certainly was not present a few years ago.
 
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