gone_fishing
New Member
I was thinking about what Relaxer Rehab said in re: to our responsibilities as christians vs. our political affiliations.
In my question for an answer I saw this article:
POLITICAL PARTIES AND CHRISTIANITY
In all actuality, few political issues are truly spiritual issues. As an example, personally, I prefer lower taxes. The Bible does not endorse low taxes, all it says is that we are to pay our taxes honestly (Romans 13:6-7; Matthew 22:15-21). Taxes, and many other issues (social security, universal healthcare, education funding, prescription drugs, etc.) are not spiritual issues the Bible specifically addresses. As a result, Christians can in good conscience have disagreements on these issues.
An issue the Bible most definitely “takes sides” on is abortion. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He knits us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty of someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as the penalty for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb as just as much of a human being as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6). Therefore, I believe Christians should strongly support candidates who are pro-life.
Another issue which is most definitely Biblical is the issue of gay marriage. The Bible condemns homosexuality in the strongest terms possible (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Gay marriage is an attack on the institution of marriage that God created to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:22-24). Endorsing gay marriage or even civil unions is basically giving "approval" of a lifestyle choice the Bible condemns as immoral and unnatural. Gay marriage, then, is an issue Christians must consider when they evaluate a candidate.
The Bible teaches that a leader in the church should be a godly, moral, ethical person (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). I believe this should apply to political leaders as well. If a politician is going to make wise, God-honoring decisions, he or she must have a basic morality on which to base the decisions they are going to have to make. So, if there is a clear moral distinction between candidates, I believe we should choose the more moral, honest, and ethical of the candidates.
No matter who is in office, whether we voted for them or not, whether they are of the political party we prefer or not – the Bible commands us to respect and honor them (1 Peter 2:13-17; Romans 13:1-7). We should also be praying for those placed in authority over us (Colossians 4:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:17). We do not have to agree with them, or even like them – we do have to honor and respect them. Politics is always going to be a difficult issue for Christians. We are in this world, but are not to be of this world (1 John 2:15). We can be involved in politics, but we should not be obsessed with politics. Ultimately, we are to be heavenly minded, more concerned with the things of God than the things of this world (Colossians 3:1-2). As believers in Jesus Christ, we are all members of the same political party – monarchists who are waiting for their King to return (Revelation 19:11-16).
THE CHRISTIAN VOTE
Beyond any shadow of a doubt, it is the duty and responsibility of every Christian to vote, and vote for leaders who promote Christian principles. God is most certainly in control, but that does not mean we should do nothing to further His will. We are commanded to pray for our leaders in 1st Timothy 2:1-4. This passage also describes God’s desire that all men would be saved. The fact that so many die without knowing Christ is just one proof that not everything that happens is something God wants to happen. The Lord has given us the freedom and free will to make some choices for ourselves.
In terms of politics and leadership, there is evidence in scripture that God has been displeased with our choices of leadership at times (Hosea 8:4). The evidence of sin’s grip on this world is everywhere. So much of the suffering of men on earth is because of godless leadership (Proverbs 28:12). Scripture gives Christians instructions to obey legitimate authority, unless it contradicts the Lord’s commands (Acts 5:27-29, Romans 13:1-7). As born-again, saved believers, we ought to strive to choose leaders who will be themselves led by our Creator (1 Samuel 12:13-25). Candidates or proposals that violate the Bible’s commands for life, family, marriage, or faith should never be supported (Proverbs 14:34). Christians should vote; as led through prayer and study of both God’s Word and the realities of the choices on the ballot.
Christians in many countries in this world are oppressed and persecuted. They suffer under governments they are powerless to change, governments that hate their faith and silence their voices. These believers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at risk of their own death. Many are killed so that others may benefit from the love of God. U.S. Christians have been blessed with the right to speak about and choose their leaders without fearing for themselves or their families. In the United States, in the 2000 presidential election, about 2 of every 5 of self-professed Christians took that right for granted. About 1 in 5 self-professed, eligible Christians are not even registered to vote.
In our day and age, there are many who want to drive the name and message of Christ completely out of the public eye. Voting is an opportunity to promote, protect, and preserve Godly government. Passing up that opportunity means letting those who would drag the name of Christ through the mud have their way in our lives. The leaders we elect – or do nothing to remove – have great influence on our freedoms. They can choose to protect our right to worship and spread the gospel, or they can restrict those rights. They can lead our nation towards righteousness, or towards moral disaster. Christians in the United States must stand up, and follow our command to fulfill our civic duties (Matthew 22:21). Ignoring our God-given right to choose our own leaders is to let the Devil and his cronies have the upper hand in our nation.
James 4:17 says in no uncertain terms: “Therefore, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” Ignoring the right and responsibility to vote is a failure to stand up for the Lord – and any believer who chooses not to vote should be ashamed.
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE:
For those who dearly enjoy riddles, here is one to consider: What do a dog-catcher, a letter carrier, and clergyman have in common? Give up? In some European countries during the nineteenth century, all three were civil servants feeding from the government’s payroll. The government, not Christ, headed these state-sanctioned churches and this was the very corruption the Puritans sought to escape as they traveled to the New World.
In spite of the rhetoric common to revisionist historians, our founding fathers did not seek to eradicate religion in America. Indeed, an overwhelming preponderance of those who signed the Declaration of Independence counted themselves as men of faith. It may come as a surprise, then, for many to learn that nowhere in the Constitution do the words separation of church and state appear. It simply is not there. The idea of church/state separation came from a letter penned by Thomas Jefferson. Again, contrary to the nonsensical propaganda born of the revisionists, Jefferson’s cause was to protect religious liberties from an intrusive government! In no way did Jefferson or any of the other framers of the U.S. Constitution seek to restrict Americans’ religious activities.
We live in a democracy rather than a theocracy—and for good reason. State-sanctioned churches become puppets of the government. Under such circumstances, the edicts of fallible man take precedence over the inspired teachings of Scripture. When the state heads the church, the integrity of the Gospel is all too easily breached. Likewise, civil servants living on tax dollars are unfit for serving as pastors, for their loyalties are divided between the One who calls them and the other who feeds them. Such compromises do not belong in the pulpit. Let the government build roads and let Christ build His church.
Another bit of nonsense being force fed to the public is the notion that men and women of faith have no business in politics. Is that so? It is hardly a secret that George Washington was a man of deep, unwavering Christian faith. His personal writings, public statements, church involvement, and the testimony of his family reveal his lifelong commitment to Christianity. Washington was hardly alone in his faith; again, the majority of our nation’s founders aligned themselves with Christianity. To say, then, that America’s founding fathers were secular minded agnostics is an affront to the verifiable facts. The hype of the revisionists cannot stand up to the light of historic scrutiny.
Not very long ago, I saw a bumper sticker declaring The last time we mixed politics and religion, people were burned at the stake. This may be well and good for people befuddled by catchy slogans, but I seem to recall over five million Russian peasants murdered by Joseph Stalin. This is what happens when we mix atheism and government.
In my question for an answer I saw this article:
POLITICAL PARTIES AND CHRISTIANITY
In all actuality, few political issues are truly spiritual issues. As an example, personally, I prefer lower taxes. The Bible does not endorse low taxes, all it says is that we are to pay our taxes honestly (Romans 13:6-7; Matthew 22:15-21). Taxes, and many other issues (social security, universal healthcare, education funding, prescription drugs, etc.) are not spiritual issues the Bible specifically addresses. As a result, Christians can in good conscience have disagreements on these issues.
An issue the Bible most definitely “takes sides” on is abortion. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He knits us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty of someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as the penalty for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb as just as much of a human being as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6). Therefore, I believe Christians should strongly support candidates who are pro-life.
Another issue which is most definitely Biblical is the issue of gay marriage. The Bible condemns homosexuality in the strongest terms possible (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Gay marriage is an attack on the institution of marriage that God created to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:22-24). Endorsing gay marriage or even civil unions is basically giving "approval" of a lifestyle choice the Bible condemns as immoral and unnatural. Gay marriage, then, is an issue Christians must consider when they evaluate a candidate.
The Bible teaches that a leader in the church should be a godly, moral, ethical person (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). I believe this should apply to political leaders as well. If a politician is going to make wise, God-honoring decisions, he or she must have a basic morality on which to base the decisions they are going to have to make. So, if there is a clear moral distinction between candidates, I believe we should choose the more moral, honest, and ethical of the candidates.
No matter who is in office, whether we voted for them or not, whether they are of the political party we prefer or not – the Bible commands us to respect and honor them (1 Peter 2:13-17; Romans 13:1-7). We should also be praying for those placed in authority over us (Colossians 4:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:17). We do not have to agree with them, or even like them – we do have to honor and respect them. Politics is always going to be a difficult issue for Christians. We are in this world, but are not to be of this world (1 John 2:15). We can be involved in politics, but we should not be obsessed with politics. Ultimately, we are to be heavenly minded, more concerned with the things of God than the things of this world (Colossians 3:1-2). As believers in Jesus Christ, we are all members of the same political party – monarchists who are waiting for their King to return (Revelation 19:11-16).
THE CHRISTIAN VOTE
Beyond any shadow of a doubt, it is the duty and responsibility of every Christian to vote, and vote for leaders who promote Christian principles. God is most certainly in control, but that does not mean we should do nothing to further His will. We are commanded to pray for our leaders in 1st Timothy 2:1-4. This passage also describes God’s desire that all men would be saved. The fact that so many die without knowing Christ is just one proof that not everything that happens is something God wants to happen. The Lord has given us the freedom and free will to make some choices for ourselves.
In terms of politics and leadership, there is evidence in scripture that God has been displeased with our choices of leadership at times (Hosea 8:4). The evidence of sin’s grip on this world is everywhere. So much of the suffering of men on earth is because of godless leadership (Proverbs 28:12). Scripture gives Christians instructions to obey legitimate authority, unless it contradicts the Lord’s commands (Acts 5:27-29, Romans 13:1-7). As born-again, saved believers, we ought to strive to choose leaders who will be themselves led by our Creator (1 Samuel 12:13-25). Candidates or proposals that violate the Bible’s commands for life, family, marriage, or faith should never be supported (Proverbs 14:34). Christians should vote; as led through prayer and study of both God’s Word and the realities of the choices on the ballot.
Christians in many countries in this world are oppressed and persecuted. They suffer under governments they are powerless to change, governments that hate their faith and silence their voices. These believers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at risk of their own death. Many are killed so that others may benefit from the love of God. U.S. Christians have been blessed with the right to speak about and choose their leaders without fearing for themselves or their families. In the United States, in the 2000 presidential election, about 2 of every 5 of self-professed Christians took that right for granted. About 1 in 5 self-professed, eligible Christians are not even registered to vote.
In our day and age, there are many who want to drive the name and message of Christ completely out of the public eye. Voting is an opportunity to promote, protect, and preserve Godly government. Passing up that opportunity means letting those who would drag the name of Christ through the mud have their way in our lives. The leaders we elect – or do nothing to remove – have great influence on our freedoms. They can choose to protect our right to worship and spread the gospel, or they can restrict those rights. They can lead our nation towards righteousness, or towards moral disaster. Christians in the United States must stand up, and follow our command to fulfill our civic duties (Matthew 22:21). Ignoring our God-given right to choose our own leaders is to let the Devil and his cronies have the upper hand in our nation.
James 4:17 says in no uncertain terms: “Therefore, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” Ignoring the right and responsibility to vote is a failure to stand up for the Lord – and any believer who chooses not to vote should be ashamed.
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE:
For those who dearly enjoy riddles, here is one to consider: What do a dog-catcher, a letter carrier, and clergyman have in common? Give up? In some European countries during the nineteenth century, all three were civil servants feeding from the government’s payroll. The government, not Christ, headed these state-sanctioned churches and this was the very corruption the Puritans sought to escape as they traveled to the New World.
In spite of the rhetoric common to revisionist historians, our founding fathers did not seek to eradicate religion in America. Indeed, an overwhelming preponderance of those who signed the Declaration of Independence counted themselves as men of faith. It may come as a surprise, then, for many to learn that nowhere in the Constitution do the words separation of church and state appear. It simply is not there. The idea of church/state separation came from a letter penned by Thomas Jefferson. Again, contrary to the nonsensical propaganda born of the revisionists, Jefferson’s cause was to protect religious liberties from an intrusive government! In no way did Jefferson or any of the other framers of the U.S. Constitution seek to restrict Americans’ religious activities.
We live in a democracy rather than a theocracy—and for good reason. State-sanctioned churches become puppets of the government. Under such circumstances, the edicts of fallible man take precedence over the inspired teachings of Scripture. When the state heads the church, the integrity of the Gospel is all too easily breached. Likewise, civil servants living on tax dollars are unfit for serving as pastors, for their loyalties are divided between the One who calls them and the other who feeds them. Such compromises do not belong in the pulpit. Let the government build roads and let Christ build His church.
Another bit of nonsense being force fed to the public is the notion that men and women of faith have no business in politics. Is that so? It is hardly a secret that George Washington was a man of deep, unwavering Christian faith. His personal writings, public statements, church involvement, and the testimony of his family reveal his lifelong commitment to Christianity. Washington was hardly alone in his faith; again, the majority of our nation’s founders aligned themselves with Christianity. To say, then, that America’s founding fathers were secular minded agnostics is an affront to the verifiable facts. The hype of the revisionists cannot stand up to the light of historic scrutiny.
Not very long ago, I saw a bumper sticker declaring The last time we mixed politics and religion, people were burned at the stake. This may be well and good for people befuddled by catchy slogans, but I seem to recall over five million Russian peasants murdered by Joseph Stalin. This is what happens when we mix atheism and government.
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Prov 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
In answer to the question should Christians be Democrat or Republican I would caution anyone from taking on any label (s) in place of a Christian's true label- Redeemed Child of God. 
:assimilat:kneel: in and is suffering the same consequences. 
Most of us are in debt up to our eyeballs with no real plan on how to get out. God would like to use us to bless folks with the money he allows us to earn but we can’t be used in that way because we owe. The rich ruleth over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender (Prov. 22:7). So off we go to work for our masters.
You know ‘Massa’? 
Bigger car/ house massa, clothing massa, shoe massa, nail massa, eating out at restaurants frequently massa, I just want my kids to have ‘X” cause I didn’t have it massa, the cell phone massa, credit card massa( but I get reward points and cash back incentives 
) and yes for some hair massa too. Most of us do not have an emergency fund of any size let alone the 3 to 6 months worth of expenses tucked aside it would take to have a fully funded emergency fund. Most of us do not have adequate and diversified funds in place for college for our kids or retirement. You may say you don’t make a lot of money. Neither do I now but it’s not what you make nearly as much as what you do with what you make. The God I serve is an able God. There is nothing too hard for him but I must be obedient to Him in order to be promoted and prosper. Riches in the hands of a fool is dangerous because money is an amplifier 
. It shows everyone what’s in your soul good or bad. 
I would challenge everyone to read the constitution for themselves. I’ll admit it has been a while since I did but it is the only way to know the truth. Then pray some more. There are many historical documents written in their (founder’s) own handwriting that state exactly what is being said. Not someone’s intellectual interpretation of what so and so really meant by this was... We aren’t reading. We accept whatever is fed to us through the media or doctor egghead w/ his 6 degrees from the Renowned Institute of Buffoonery 
for the most part and never read ourselves. Even judges in the highest court don’t use the foundational documents as guides for what verdicts need to be handed down but rather they interpret what they think is in an individual’s best interest. 
) is not my friend. The government is supposed to work for me/ us. It is not their responsibility to take care of me. It is not their responsibility to educate my children (this practice did not start until this century). It is not their responsibility to provide food and medical care for me. It is not there responsibility to provide shelter for me. It is nice to live in a country where those things can happen but they will eventually want something in return. Meditate on that for a minute. The all-sufficient (El-Shaddai), eternal (El-Olam), non-changing (Mal 3:6), non-lying (Num 23:19) God is my source. 
