Single Christian women are you looking only for black men?

[tmichelle]

Perhaps because I always thought I would be single, or perhaps because my sister is single and writes for Christian Single magazine I have always cared about the singles in the church. While the Lord has blessed me with a loving Christian husband who is a dream come true, I know the heart ache that comes with living without a relationship you always wanted because I feel that there are MANY similarities between singlenss and infertility (which I've been going through).

Anyway, not to post just another IR thread After viewing the preview on the dvd concerning single black women and the church and hearing, once again, how slim the pickings are for black men, I was wondering how many black Christian women are willing to open their hearts to a non-black man.

I truly won't be offended by however you vote but I would like to encourage all the single women to be observant of who God may intend for you to have. It may not be what you always envisioned having, a black man. I would just hate for all these women to go through life wanting to have a godly husband just to find out that they overlooked the one God had choosen because they didn't realize that they were to marry a non-black.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.

 

[upandcoming]

Perhaps because I always thought I would be single, or perhaps because my sister is single and writes for Christian Single magazine I have always cared about the singles in the church. While the Lord has blessed me with a loving Christian husband who is a dream come true, I know the heart ache that comes with living without a relationship you always wanted because I feel that there are MANY similarities between singlenss and infertility (which I've been going through).

Anyway, not to post just another IR thread After viewing the preview on the dvd concerning single black women and the church and hearing, once again, how slim the pickings are for black men, I was wondering how many black Christian women are willing to open their hearts to a non-black man.

I truly won't be offended by however you vote but I would like to encourage all the single women to be observant of who God may intend for you to have. It may not be what you always envisioned having, a black man. I would just hate for all these women to go through life wanting to have a godly husband just to find out that they overlooked the one God had choosen because they didn't realize that they were to marry a non-black.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.

I'm open to dating outside of my race, but it's not so much the race that matters...it's the lifestyle/perspective. When I close my eyes and think of a man, he's black but that's by default. I'd date outside. =)

 

[PaperClip]

I'm open to dating outside of my race, but it's not so much the race that matters...it's the lifestyle/perspective. When I close my eyes and think of a man, he's black but that's by default. I'd date outside. =)

Basically the same response from me.

 

[bludacious]

You know I use to think that I would only date black men. The closer I got to God, I realized that I should wait on God! I am not looking. I am waiting on God. God's children comes in different race's. So, when God sends my mate, He may be a short white man something totally different than what I use to invision.

 

[tmichelle]

I'm open to dating outside of my race, but it's not so much the race that matters...it's the lifestyle/perspective. When I close my eyes and think of a man, he's black but that's by default. I'd date outside. =)

I'm intrigued by the words lifestyle/perspective. Would you elaborate?

 

[tmichelle]

You know I use to think that I would only date black men. The closer I got to God, I realized that I should wait on God! I am not looking. I am waiting on God. God's children comes in different race's. So, when God sends my mate, He may be a short white man something totally different than what I use to invision.

Do you think you will be at peace with someone "other" than you envisioned or do you think you will have to say, "well okay Lord, since you insist."

 

[upandcoming]

I'm intrigued by the words lifestyle/perspective. Would you elaborate?

This may sound bad but I'd really like someone who is ambitious - in whatever field he's in. I'd also prefer someone who has passion - in something OUTSIDE of work; languages, the arts, sports w/e.

What I mean is, I am becoming an attorney. I work hard and I've worked hard for a long time because I feel that much is required to whom much is given, so I'd like someone who has worked hard as well - in whatever field. I am really serious about using my career to help others, specifically youth and minority/immigrant women. So I want my man to work hard to - in whatever field - music, nursing, investment banking, medicine, law, public health, performing, accounting, whatever. He doesn't have to be rich, nor does he have to be brilliant. Just hard working and ambitious, eager to support his family and help his community.

But I also want someone who likes to have a good time. I want somoene who I can go see a play or travel with, or go salsa dancing with or just watch a movie and be silly and throw popcorn at one another...I think its important to balance work and social life.

Often times I find people in either extremes. Of course I also want a strong Christian who will challenge me and vice versa.

 

[bludacious]

Do you think you will be at peace with someone "other" than you envisioned or do you think you will have to say, "well okay Lord, since you insist."

Yes, I will because I feel as if God is preparing me for when I do meet my soulmate. I pray that God will make it plain for me to recognize.

 

[Glib Gurl]

This may sound bad but I'd really like someone who is ambitious - in whatever field he's in. I'd also prefer someone who has passion - in something OUTSIDE of work; languages, the arts, sports w/e.

What I mean is, I am becoming an attorney. I work hard and I've worked hard for a long time because I feel that much is required to whom much is given, so I'd like someone who has worked hard as well - in whatever field. I am really serious about using my career to help others, specifically youth and minority/immigrant women. So I want my man to work hard to - in whatever field - music, nursing, investment banking, medicine, law, public health, performing, accounting, whatever. He doesn't have to be rich, nor does he have to be brilliant. Just hard working and ambitious, eager to support his family and help his community.

. . .

Of course I also want a strong Christian who will challenge me and vice versa.

I agree with all of the above. To me, faith matters more than race. So, if I had to chose between a white Christian man and a black non-Christian, all other things being equal, I'd go with the white man. I've fought too hard to come to this place in my faith walk to not have someone by my side who will pray with me, encourage me, etc., etc.

Of course, my first preference is a black Christian man . . . but God is control, so we shall see . . . .

BTW, the SoulMate video features a black woman who ended up marrying a man for Europe . . . and she says she never thought she would, but when they met they had so much in common . . . so you never know . . .

 

[tmichelle]

This may sound bad but I'd really like someone who is ambitious - in whatever field he's in. I'd also prefer someone who has passion - in something OUTSIDE of work; languages, the arts, sports w/e.

What I mean is, I am becoming an attorney. I work hard and I've worked hard for a long time because I feel that much is required to whom much is given, so I'd like someone who has worked hard as well - in whatever field. I am really serious about using my career to help others, specifically youth and minority/immigrant women. So I want my man to work hard to - in whatever field - music, nursing, investment banking, medicine, law, public health, performing, accounting, whatever. He doesn't have to be rich, nor does he have to be brilliant. Just hard working and ambitious, eager to support his family and help his community.

But I also want someone who likes to have a good time. I want somoene who I can go see a play or travel with, or go salsa dancing with or just watch a movie and be silly and throw popcorn at one another...I think its important to balance work and social life.

Often times I find people in either extremes. Of course I also want a strong Christian who will challenge me and vice versa.

That doesn't sound bad to me at all. It sounds godly. As one who has often struggled with laziness and low ambition, I know the repurcussions of not doing one's best at whatever the Lord has given you to do. The struggle to work hard is not easy and I can totally understand (and heartily agree) why you would want to avoid that flaw in a spouse.

In my view, what you are asking about is a man who takes the Lord seriously in EVERYTHING he does. I think that is admirable. I am praying for you that the Lord will give you the man that help you to know and love the Lord even more.

 

[tmichelle]

Yes, I will because I feel as if God is preparing me for when I do meet my soulmate. I pray that God will make it plain for me to recognize.

I am praying the same for you and that he will draw you into a deeper love and understanding of the Lord.

 

[tmichelle]

I agree with all of the above. To me, faith matters more than race. So, if I had to chose between a white Christian man and a black non-Christian, all other things being equal, I'd go with the white man. I've fought too hard to come to this place in my faith walk to not have someone by my side who will pray with me, encourage me, etc., etc.

Of course, my first preference is a black Christian man . . . but God is control, so we shall see . . . .

BTW, the SoulMate video features a black woman who ended up marrying a man for Europe . . . and she says she never thought she would, but when they met they had so much in common . . . so you never know . . .

I am very much intrigued by the SoulMate video. I would love to see it but my marital status as well as my obsession with buying dvd's will probably make my husband put his foot down. But perhaps I can find it on netflix as we received a free 3 month subscription for x-mas. I'm glad you have found such a great perspective watching this dvd. I'm praying that the Lord will bring into your life a godly husband, one that is after His own heart.

 

[cocoberry10]

I can't speak for all Black women, but I don't think most Black women are only looking for a Black man.

I have several non-Black friends who date interracially without reservation. It does seem that Black women are more hesitant, but I also think our race has more hang-ups about race than other races. I suppose this is a byproduct of the 400 years of slavery/colonialism that we've been exposed to.

What I admit haunts me a little bit, is that there has become this "lack" of Black male role models, both in the church and in the world. I feel like a lot of times, the major white ministers we know of and see are white men. Yes, you have the Creflo Dollars, the Frederick Price's, the Eddie Longs. I suppose Minister Louis Farrakhan (Muslim) and Jessie Jackson have to fall into this category !

But overall, I'm starting to become concerned with the image that Black men have, both in the world and in the church.

Of course, God doesn't care what color the person you marry is. As the bible says, God isn't a respecter of persons, so I know this doesn't matter anyway.

But I would like to see more strong, positive images of Black families (Christian Black families), whether the man I end up with is Black or not!

 

[tmichelle]

I can't speak for all Black women, but I don't think most Black women are only looking for a Black man.

I have several non-Black friends who date interracially without reservation. It does seem that Black women are more hesitant, but I also think our race has more hang-ups about race than other races. I suppose this is a byproduct of the 400 years of slavery/colonialism that we've been exposed to.

What I admit haunts me a little bit, is that there has become this "lack" of Black male role models, both in the church and in the world. I feel like a lot of times, the major white ministers we know of and see are white men. Yes, you have the Creflo Dollars, the Frederick Price's, the Eddie Longs. I suppose Minister Louis Farrakhan (Muslim) and Jessie Jackson have to fall into this category !

But overall, I'm starting to become concerned with the image that Black men have, both in the world and in the church.

Of course, God doesn't care what color the person you marry is. As the bible says, God isn't a respecter of persons, so I know this doesn't matter anyway.

But I would like to see more strong, positive images of Black families (Christian Black families), whether the man I end up with is Black or not!

I too am concerned with the part bolded in black. I'll take it a step further and say that I am concerned with not only the image but also the reality behind the image. I've heard many theories of why many black men cannot succeed in the world as well as theories on why the interest in the Lord ends when Sunday services ends.

As to the lack of real spiritual transformation, several theories have been put forward. One is that black women have spoiled their sons to the point that they think the world revolves around them. Another is that the black woman has become so strong and no longer needs/wants men to be spiritual leaders so displaces them as the spiritual heads both in services as well as in homes. (One might argue that the leadership of the women is more of a result than a cause). Their are others as well. Do you have any thoughts/theories on why there seems to be a dispproportionately amount of black spiritual women than men?

 

[cocoberry10]

I too am concerned with the part bolded in black. I'll take it a step further and say that I am concerned with not only the image but also the reality behind the image. I've heard many theories of why many black men cannot succeed in the world as well as theories on why the interest in the Lord ends when Sunday services ends.

As to the lack of real spiritual transformation, several theories have been put forward. One is that black women have spoiled their sons to the point that they think the world revolves around them. Another is that the black woman has become so strong and no longer needs/wants men to be spiritual leaders so displaces them as the spiritual heads both in services as well as in homes. (One might argue that the leadership of the women is more of a result than a cause). Their are others as well. Do you have any thoughts/theories on why there seems to be a dispproportionately amount of black spiritual women than men?

I will try to guess. I grew up in a house with a mother, father and 3 daughters, so I didn't see a "son" grow up in my house.

Some of my Black male friends say they don't really relate to church and say that a lot of ministers are feminine or cater to the female parishoners. Since they've made this point, I've made it a point to "notice" these things more. And I have to say, that in some churches, this is true.

Often the pastor (whether male or female) will say things like "girl (guuuuuuuurl)" or "uh-uh" or shake their hips in an effeminate manner. This doesn't necessarily mean they are gay, but heterosexual men are often uncomfortable with this.

Also, it's like common knowledge that most music ministers are GAY. It's become a joke almost. I rented a Christian film, made by a Christian company once and the music minister's character in the movie was FLAMING. I was shocked, b/c I didn't expect that from a Christian movie (and this has nothing to do with my personal view on homosexuality). But the movie company was a known Christian/conservative one. My sis said that when she went to Kenya, even there the music ministers were gay.

So, for a heterosexual Black man, going to church may be uncomfortable. And for a homosexual Black man, going to church is probably very uncomfortable, b/c the Black church doesn't want to acknowledge homosexuality, and most churches make gay parishoners unwelcome.

If I think of any other theories, I'll add them later.

 

[bludacious]

I am praying the same for you and that he will draw you into a deeper love and understanding of the Lord.

Thank you!

 

[tmichelle]

I will try to guess. I grew up in a house with a mother, father and 3 daughters, so I didn't see a "son" grow up in my house.

Some of my Black male friends say they don't really relate to church and say that a lot of ministers are feminine or cater to the female parishoners. Since they've made this point, I've made it a point to "notice" these things more. And I have to say, that in some churches, this is true.

Often the pastor (whether male or female) will say things like "girl (guuuuuuuurl)" or "uh-uh" or shake their hips in an effeminate manner. This doesn't necessarily mean they are gay, but heterosexual men are often uncomfortable with this.

Also, it's like common knowledge that most music ministers are GAY. It's become a joke almost. I rented a Christian film, made by a Christian company once and the music minister's character in the movie was FLAMING. I was shocked, b/c I didn't expect that from a Christian movie (and this has nothing to do with my personal view on homosexuality). But the movie company was a known Christian/conservative one. My sis said that when she went to Kenya, even there the music ministers were gay.

So, for a heterosexual Black man, going to church may be uncomfortable. And for a homosexual Black man, going to church is probably very uncomfortable, b/c the Black church doesn't want to acknowledge homosexuality, and most churches make gay parishoners unwelcome.

If I think of any other theories, I'll add them later.

Thanks, what interesting thoughts! I definitely want to hear more if you come up with them. It is hard to assess the situation from my perspective because the church I've always been a member of is so different that I didn't know those things but that makes sense to me. Our church is very patriarchal and almost all of them are acapella so there are only song leaders and rarely music ministers, (which does have its drawbacks when the songleader can't read music ...or sing).

So yes please do let me know if you think of or hear more theories!

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

Interesting post. Great responses.

 

[tmichelle]

Thank you!

My pleasure and your welcome!

 

[tmichelle]

Interesting post. Great responses.

Any thoughts?

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I only date black women. I don't believe it has anything to do with any by product of slavery. All the women in my life that ever meant anything to me and helped build me to the man I am were black women, so my element of comfort is with a black woman. I have yet to find someone of another race who understands my hardships and triumphs as well as she does. You need only look to radios, movies and cultural history to see our unique and considerable contributions to society. And yet, now, when brought up in discussion of value and worth, we are reduced to being just a people who share a darker pigmentation than others and thats it? I find the value of an African American woman to be invaluable and unique and black men should be recognized as the same. (even as many BM continue to struggle in establishing an identity in today's world). I'm not saying any accusations like that were made but I wanted to get that out of my system.

Quite honestly, I think many black men have become very disenfranchised with the images and behaviors exhibited from the church. We have always viewed pastors / ministers as dedicated men of great conviction, worthy of deep respect and admiration because of their willingness to make great sacrifices for something they deeply believe in. Men associate with those traits because thats how it is to be a black man and when we fall short, we have someone to look up to. Our leaders in the church are truly seen as the ultimate father figures .

However, lately, million dollar parishes, pastors dressed in $1800 custom suits and driving $80,000 vehicles and giving more sermons about how to manage money, spend money and use money as a way to give blessings is leaving a bad taste in many mouths. There is no self sacrifice for faith. There is little modesty. They do not take a definitive stand on core beliefs. I understand that all ministers do not follow this protocol but they are still disturbing images nonetheless that affect the whole. The church has always been viewed as the rock in the community but when the rock seems corrupted then there is a ripple effect. A Black man's attendance in church are one of those effects. Granted this is not the same for all black men but it is a significant reason for many.

The sad thing is that black men need the church now more than ever. A Christian only hurts himself when he believes he can stay close to the word of God through self teachings. Believe it or not, black men do have a strong belief in God but they lack cultivation therefore they lack growth and discipline so he will continue to be unbalanced.

 

[tmichelle]

I only date black women. I don't believe it has anything to do with any by product of slavery. All the women in my life that ever meant anything to me and helped build me to the man I am were black women, so my element of comfort is with a black woman. I have yet to find someone of another race who understands my hardships and triumphs as well as she does. You need only look to your radios, movies and cultural history to see our uniqueness and considerable contributions to society. And yet, now, when brought up in discussion of value and worth, we are reduced to being just a people who share a darker pigmentation than others and thats it? I find the value of an African American woman to be invaluable and unique and black men should be recognized as the same. (even as many BM continue to struggle in establishing an identity in today's world). I'm not saying any accusations like that were made but I wanted to get that out of my system.

Quite honestly, I think many black men have become very disenfranchised with the images and behaviors exhibited from the church. We have always viewed pastors / ministers as dedicated men of great conviction, worthy of deep respect and admiration because of their willingness to make great sacrifices for something they deeply believe in. Men associate with those traits because thats how it is to be a black man and when we fall short, we have someone to look up to. Our leaders in the church are truly seen as the ultimate father figures .

However, lately, million dollar parishes, pastors dressed in $1800 custom suits and driving $80,000 vehicles and giving more sermons about how to manage money, spend money and use money as a way to give blessings is leaving a bad taste in many mouths. There is no self sacrifice for faith. There is little modesty. They do not take a definitive stand on core beliefs. I understand that all ministers do not follow this protocol but they are still disturbing images nonetheless that affect the whole. The church has always been viewed as the rock in the community but when the rock seems corrupted then there is a ripple effect. A Black man's attendance in church are one of those effects. Granted this is not the same for all black men but it is a significant reason for many.

The sad thing is that black men need the church now more than ever. A Christian only hurts himself when he believes he can stay close to the word of God through self teachings. Believe it or not, black men do have a strong belief in God but they lack cultivation therefore they lack growth and discipline so he will continue to be unbalanced.

I hear what you are saying, and quite honestly I hadn't thought about that as being one of the reasons black men have become less spiritual, but it makes sense. Why do you think these mega rich pastors etc. have had MORE of a negative influence on the black male than female?

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I hear what you are saying, and quite honestly I hadn't thought about that as being one of the reasons black men have become less spiritual, but it makes sense. Why do you think these mega rich pastors etc. have had MORE of a negative influence on the black male than female?

Good Question. Many blk men see these types of pastors as 'shams', classifying them as black versions of Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart, good speakers who were well versed on the bible, which made them all the more dangerous and unworthy of respect. Their flashiness betrays their sincerity. Our faith teaches us to be humble, strong and dedicated servants of God but they show images of materialism,vanity and greed. How strange it would seem to say to a child " Don't you want to be as rich and successful as Pastor James when you grow up?" In essence,we think 'game recognizes game'. They have, in effect, brought the 'hustle' ( making a way in life any way you can with little scruples) inside the church. It would seem a contradiction to ask a BM to abandon his 'hustle' to enter theirs.

As far as why this affects more men than women, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I personally feel there is no one more loyal to their cause than a woman. When she puts her heart and soul into something, it's deeply personal and she is deeply committed. It would take a lot for her to question the direction of a church or the actions of a pastor. He would have to do something very obvious and overt for her to outright question his motives because it would be very hard to believe someone so well spoken and charismatic could be so corrupt. I think it's because men are naturally detached (to a degree) that we 'see' this more quickly. However, usually when we say something about it, we're discounted as being too cynical and feel we're just using it as an excuse to not go to church.

Men still have it their mind that a pastor is a humble servant of God. An embodiment of humility and compassion, forsaking all wordly loves for his love in the Lord. He doesn't just teach on Sunday. He forges and steers a community 7 days a week. The bigger megachurches grow, the less black men are likely to join.

 

[Shimmie]

There was a time when you couldn't pay me to consider a Black man; they were the ones who hurt me and left me not understanding 'why.' The hurtful things they did, 'walled up' my spirit. My heart was on lock down. After a failed marriage, and an ex bf... there was nothing left for me to trust in.

But I've learned a beautiful lesson: Deep in my heart, my choice was always within my race, but just not with the fool examples that gave me such a hard lesson. I 'allowed' the attentions and affections of another culture to give the false impression that Black wasn't me. But I was wrong....for no matter how kind, I could never give up enough of myself to love a white man.

I've learned that I can respect and love a Black man, freely...AND without cost; without resistance; without doubt at all.

We can't go by 'color' anymore... to the extent where we exclude the color of who we are; we just can't. I want 'Black' first, and first again, and even again...Black first. For while I was being pursued by White men, my heart couldn't yield. No matter how flattering, I just couldn't yield. For my heart was crying for him with skin Black like mine.

(Selah)

 

[Browndilocks]

Faith is definitely more important than race. Yet while I'm not out out there looking for anyone, I really don't think I'm open to dating outside of my race. There would definitely have to be some sort of divine attraction there because white boys just don't do it for me. Simple as that.

 

[cocoberry10]

I only date black women. I don't believe it has anything to do with any by product of slavery. All the women in my life that ever meant anything to me and helped build me to the man I am were black women, so my element of comfort is with a black woman. I have yet to find someone of another race who understands my hardships and triumphs as well as she does. You need only look to radios, movies and cultural history to see our unique and considerable contributions to society. And yet, now, when brought up in discussion of value and worth, we are reduced to being just a people who share a darker pigmentation than others and thats it? I find the value of an African American woman to be invaluable and unique and black men should be recognized as the same. (even as many BM continue to struggle in establishing an identity in today's world). I'm not saying any accusations like that were made but I wanted to get that out of my system.

Quite honestly, I think many black men have become very disenfranchised with the images and behaviors exhibited from the church. We have always viewed pastors / ministers as dedicated men of great conviction, worthy of deep respect and admiration because of their willingness to make great sacrifices for something they deeply believe in. Men associate with those traits because thats how it is to be a black man and when we fall short, we have someone to look up to. Our leaders in the church are truly seen as the ultimate father figures .

However, lately, million dollar parishes, pastors dressed in $1800 custom suits and driving $80,000 vehicles and giving more sermons about how to manage money, spend money and use money as a way to give blessings is leaving a bad taste in many mouths. There is no self sacrifice for faith. There is little modesty. They do not take a definitive stand on core beliefs. I understand that all ministers do not follow this protocol but they are still disturbing images nonetheless that affect the whole. The church has always been viewed as the rock in the community but when the rock seems corrupted then there is a ripple effect. A Black man's attendance in church are one of those effects. Granted this is not the same for all black men but it is a significant reason for many.

The sad thing is that black men need the church now more than ever. A Christian only hurts himself when he believes he can stay close to the word of God through self teachings. Believe it or not, black men do have a strong belief in God but they lack cultivation therefore they lack growth and discipline so he will continue to be unbalanced.

Good Question. Many blk men see these types of pastors as 'shams', classifying them as black versions of Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart, good speakers who were well versed on the bible, which made them all the more dangerous and unworthy of respect. Their flashiness betrays their sincerity. Our faith teaches us to be humble, strong and dedicated servants of God but they show images of materialism,vanity and greed. How strange it would seem to say to a child " Don't you want to be as rich and successful as Pastor James when you grow up?" In essence,we think 'game recognizes game'. They have, in effect, brought the 'hustle' ( making a way in life any way you can with little scruples) inside the church. It would seem a contradiction to ask a BM to abandon his 'hustle' to enter theirs.

As far as why this affects more men than women, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I personally feel there is no one more loyal to their cause than a woman. When she puts her heart and soul into something, it's deeply personal and she is deeply committed. It would take a lot for her to question the direction of a church or the actions of a pastor. He would have to do something very obvious and overt for her to outright question his motives because it would be very hard to believe someone so well spoken and charismatic could be so corrupt. I think it's because men are naturally detached (to a degree) that we 'see' this more quickly. However, usually when we say something about it, we're discounted as being too cynical and feel we're just using it as an excuse to not go to church.

Men still have it their mind that a pastor is a humble servant of God. An embodiment of humility and compassion, forsaking all wordly loves for his love in the Lord. He doesn't just teach on Sunday. He forges and steers a community 7 days a week. The bigger megachurches grow, the less black men are likely to join.

This is very well said, and I totally agree. I have had some of my Black male friends say these things to me also, and I admit, I probably didn't realize how much of an effect the above had on them until you just said it.

I've also had a few mention that they feel the older Black men leave them behind. As you mentioned about these "mega-pastors," some of my guy friends have said that they feel the hypocrisy. We are a part of the "hip hop" generation (if you are under 40 I suppose). And hip hop glorifies bling-bling unashamedly.

The church criticizes hip hop and "bling-bling," but many of these mega-pastors (and even pastors of non "mega" churches) enjoy the same bling bling lifestyle that these rappers/entertainers enjoy.

AND, many of these mega churches are in the poorest communities in town. How many little boys aren't being saved by the church, but instead are ending up in gangs, dead, in prison, on drugs. Oh, don't even get me started. When I watched "The Wire," it haunted me so much to see how these young kids are getting into that lifestyle. Where's the church?

I admit that I grew up in an upper middle class background, so I wasn't exposed to inner city life. But when I got to college and met some of my Black male friends who were the first to go to college, they showed me how hard it had been. I wonder, where was the church? I have co-worker (older) who grew up with Snoop Dogg (and Cameron Diaz) and told me Snoop had been homeless. I don't like the image he portrays, but where was the church for Snoop Dogg?

And as bad as I think hip hop portrays Blacks, I can admit that when these artists "make it," they use their money for good. They go back to the communities and help those behind them. The same can't be said for all churches. It's sad, but true! And we are the body of Christ. I wonder what God looks down and says???

 

[tmichelle]

Good Question. Many blk men see these types of pastors as 'shams', classifying them as black versions of Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart, good speakers who were well versed on the bible, which made them all the more dangerous and unworthy of respect. Their flashiness betrays their sincerity. Our faith teaches us to be humble, strong and dedicated servants of God but they show images of materialism,vanity and greed. How strange it would seem to say to a child " Don't you want to be as rich and successful as Pastor James when you grow up?" In essence,we think 'game recognizes game'. They have, in effect, brought the 'hustle' ( making a way in life any way you can with little scruples) inside the church. It would seem a contradiction to ask a BM to abandon his 'hustle' to enter theirs.

As far as why this affects more men than women, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I personally feel there is no one more loyal to their cause than a woman. When she puts her heart and soul into something, it's deeply personal and she is deeply committed. It would take a lot for her to question the direction of a church or the actions of a pastor. He would have to do something very obvious and overt for her to outright question his motives because it would be very hard to believe someone so well spoken and charismatic could be so corrupt. I think it's because men are naturally detached (to a degree) that we 'see' this more quickly. However, usually when we say something about it, we're discounted as being too cynical and feel we're just using it as an excuse to not go to church.

Men still have it their mind that a pastor is a humble servant of God. An embodiment of humility and compassion, forsaking all wordly loves for his love in the Lord. He doesn't just teach on Sunday. He forges and steers a community 7 days a week. The bigger megachurches grow, the less black men are likely to join.

I didn't think so many others saw what I saw in the "mega" era. The church was so different for me growing up and still even now that the mega and hustle of these "men of the cloth" stands out to me, but I truly thought the everyone else bought into it. When I have visited other churches such as the denomination my grandmother belonged to and watch these services on t.v. it seems everyone is so excited about something. And it sure isn't the teaching because at many of the churches, the preacher has one passage of scripture and one point to make (which may or may not be accurate with scripture) which he then draws out for an hour with repetition and "wells". I truly thought people loved this. Wow, I'm a bit shocked to hear that it has had the negative impact that it has, but I suppose I shouldn't be at all surprised.

What should we do? All I can think of is we (as in you, me and anyone else reading this) need to be in serious prayer and perhaps fasting. What do you think needs to be done?

On another note (and I mention this because I would be interested in hearing your thoughts or other's thoughts on this), I was observing that in my experience, blacks seem to acknowledge that their is a God, that He is divine more than any other race, but we also seem to have the most issues, ie. young mothers with several children from different men, drug addicitions, AIDS, prison, etc. How can this be? Many in these other races don't even believe there is a God so why are they doing so much better than we are (and I'm talking about choices we make not things that our out of our hands like the way others treat us).

 

[tmichelle]

There was a time when you couldn't pay me to consider a Black man; they were the ones who hurt me and left me not understanding 'why.' The hurtful things they did, 'walled up' my spirit. My heart was on lock down. After a failed marriage, and an ex bf... there was nothing left for me to trust in.

But I've learned a beautiful lesson: Deep in my heart, my choice was always within my race, but just not with the fool examples that gave me such a hard lesson. I 'allowed' the attentions and affections of another culture to give the false impression that Black wasn't me. But I was wrong....for no matter how kind, I could never give up enough of myself to love a white man.

I've learned that I can respect and love a Black man, freely...AND without cost; without resistance; without doubt at all.

We can't go by 'color' anymore... to the extent where we exclude the color of who we are; we just can't. I want 'Black' first, and first again, and even again...Black first. For while I was being pursued by White men, my heart couldn't yield. No matter how flattering, I just couldn't yield. For my heart was crying for him with skin Black like mine.

(Selah)

Well, reading this, I have to say I am so sorry for all the hurt you have been through! I know you are probably over it by now, but just reading through your post makes it come to life for me. Thanks for sharing your struggles and your ultimate conviction. I am praying for the Lord to bring you a man that will love Him and bring you both closer to Him.

But I'll have to smile if he brings you a non-black man . Which reminds me, there have been several occasions which have convinced me that God does indeed have a sense of humor. You'll just have to promise that when you remarry you'll divulge the wedding pictures.

 

[tmichelle]

This is very well said, and I totally agree. I have had some of my Black male friends say these things to me also, and I admit, I probably didn't realize how much of an effect the above had on them until you just said it.

I've also had a few mention that they feel the older Black men leave them behind. As you mentioned about these "mega-pastors," some of my guy friends have said that they feel the hypocrisy. We are a part of the "hip hop" generation (if you are under 40 I suppose). And hip hop glorifies bling-bling unashamedly.

The church criticizes hip hop and "bling-bling," but many of these mega-pastors (and even pastors of non "mega" churches) enjoy the same bling bling lifestyle that these rappers/entertainers enjoy.

AND, many of these mega churches are in the poorest communities in town. How many little boys aren't being saved by the church, but instead are ending up in gangs, dead, in prison, on drugs. Oh, don't even get me started. When I watched "The Wire," it haunted me so much to see how these young kids are getting into that lifestyle. Where's the church?

I admit that I grew up in an upper middle class background, so I wasn't exposed to inner city life. But when I got to college and met some of my Black male friends who were the first to go to college, they showed me how hard it had been. I wonder, where was the church? I have co-worker (older) who grew up with Snoop Dogg (and Cameron Diaz) and told me Snoop had been homeless. I don't like the image he portrays, but where was the church for Snoop Dogg?

And as bad as I think hip hop portrays Blacks, I can admit that when these artists "make it," they use their money for good. They go back to the communities and help those behind them. The same can't be said for all churches. It's sad, but true! And we are the body of Christ. I wonder what God looks down and says???

What you've written is very convicting. Many on my mother's side of the family are in a denomination where the congregations they attend have done and asked for things I'd never heard of such as extra collections for the pastor. Your offering goes into a little envelope and on the outside you can check different catagories that say such things like (and this isn't a quote because I can't remember exactly); happy pastor offering (which is a tip), special gift for the pastor, pastor's special fund, etc. During service one pastor had the nerve to get up and let everyone know it was his wife's birthday and then passed the collection baskets around so people could give her money, and they did! These congregations of which I write were housed in large oppulent buildings and although these were the poor areas of town, the pastors drove expensive cars.

I'm sure these churches have special youth activities/programs, but what if these churches or I should say ALL churches resembled the church that Christ died for, what kind of an impact would that have?

 

[cocoberry10]

What you've written is very convicting. Many on my mother's side of the family are in a denomination where the congregations they attend have done and asked for things I'd never heard of such as extra collections for the pastor. Your offering goes into a little envelope and on the outside you can check different catagories that say such things like (and this isn't a quote because I can't remember exactly); happy pastor offering (which is a tip), special gift for the pastor, pastor's special fund, etc. During service one pastor had the nerve to get up and let everyone know it was his wife's birthday and then passed the collection baskets around so people could give her money, and they did! These congregations of which I write were housed in large oppulent buildings and although these were the poor areas of town, the pastors drove expensive cars.

I'm sure these churches have special youth activities/programs, but what if these churches or I should say ALL churches resembled the church that Christ died for, what kind of an impact would that have?

The church I'm currently attending will do this too (asking for an offering for the pastor). Now, on special occasions (i.e. pastor's anniversary, etc.), I'm not against this. Also, if there's a visiting pastor, I'm not against it.

However, the above examples you gave concern me. I know that not all pastors are "mega rich," but I just wonder...What is God thinking about this???