Should Women be Pastors?

[Seeking8Rights]

Amen. And women pastors (well, anybody in ministry) have to be VERY CAREFUL whom they submit to/choose to come under authority.... It's a delicate situation. That male covering serves as that woman pastor's defense, advocate, protector, disciplinarian, spiritual leader/guide, etc. And yet again, the Lord has given us instruction on what to look for in leaders with integrity: like He says about the requirements of a bishop.

A woman pastor has to be sure that she submits to someone who KNOWS HOW TO LEAD IN INTEGRITY AND COMPETENCE. If she submits under a pastor who is ill-equipped to lead her, then she's going to be angry and oppressed and that male pastor is going to feel threatened and intimidated at that woman pastor's greater anointing.

It's like me trying to get married to a man who cannot "handle" me. I don't mean grabbing on me and all that. What I mean is that the Lord has blessed and anointed me to build this empire (my private joke) and then I'm just going to submit under a man in marriage who I cannot trust, who is incompetent and let the Lord's investment in me be ruined? How about not?

It matters what church you go to. It matters what pastor you submit to. It matters.

Ah, I see! RR, you have truely enlightened me.

 

[Ms.Honey]

I certainly am keeping the Scriptures in context, which is exactly why I stated to read the entire chapter. The scripture is very clear. There is nothing random about those verses at all. Further, you have not provided any scriptural response concerning the matter. Please respond with Thus saith the Lord.

Where is your Thus saith the Lord scripture forbidding it? If you choose to stay ignorant then it's not my responsibility to persuade you otherwise. I will not address you further with you foolish arguments. And you need to read the entire bible to discern the Word not a chapter at least the book in question. At the minimum get some study aids. You have not proven that women are forbidden from being Pastors. When Paul lists the gifts he said and God gave some not and God gave some men. If there was to be a restriction wouldn't it have been there? Don't you think that at least one place in the teachings of Jesus or Apostles it would have been stated? It is not stated directly or even implied. You may want to pray to the Lord instead of assume for the answer then go to you next line of authority and recieve the answer. That is Thus saith the Lord.

 

[divya]

Where is your Thus saith the Lord scripture forbidding it? If you choose to stay ignorant then it's not my responsibility to persuade you otherwise. I will not address you further with you foolish arguments. And you need to read the entire bible to discern the Word not a chapter at least the book in question. At the minimum get some study aids. You have not proven that women are forbidden from being Pastors. When Paul lists the gifts he said and God gave some not and God gave some men. If there was to be a restriction wouldn't it have been there? Don't you think that at least one place in the teachings of Jesus or Apostles it would have been stated? It is not stated directly or even implied. You may want to pray to the Lord instead of assume for the answer then go to you next line of authority and recieve the answer. That is Thus saith the Lord.

I am asking for Scripture in support of your stance. This issue is ripe for discussion. Why are you getting nasty?


Again, these verses deal with church leadership...

1 Timothy 3:1-5

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ...

Verses 12, 13.Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Titus 1:5-7
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

[divya]

Here's a good summary on the issue of women being pastors and our roles in general, with supporting Scripture.

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/003.women.html

 

[Caramela]

Again, these verses deal with church leadership...


Quote:
1 Timothy 3:1-5

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ...

Verses 12, 13.Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Titus 1:5-7
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

[PaperClip]

I am asking for Scripture in support of your stance. This issue is ripe for discussion. Why are you getting nasty?


Again, these verses deal with church leadership...

Yes. specific positions are noted: bishop, deacon, and elder. There does not seem to be any disagreement with regard to these three offices. It is NOT specific concerning pastorship.

Ephesians 4:11: "11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

In this capacity, other than apostle, there is no gender directive. It says and he gave "some": both men and women. So just as the Lord was specific with the offices of bishop, deacon, and elder, He would have been specific here in Ephesians 4:11.

Further, it would be interesting to explore the Greek terms for these words to get clarity on the gender distinctions amongst those positions.

 

[metamorfhosis]

I have some thoughts that I would like to share.

One day an associate of mine called me and said that she had been thinking about me and wanted me to visit her church. So I did. There was a female Pastor and her husband was the Elder. I have never been to a church were I have felt such a strong presence of GOD. At the time of my visit, I was at my lowest point (so far) in life. The pastor opened the floor for prayer and she prayed for me and gave me a hug. You don't know how much that meant to me. So as a result of my experience, I started attending this church regularly.

I really loved attending the church. Not only did I learn so much about the Word, but I was part of the most beautiful worship experience. People would praise the LORD individually not in unison (copying the way everyone else in the church praised HIM). The worship was so beautiful to me that all I could do (until I got used to it) was cry.

Long story short---The ministerial staff worked as a unit. When the people came in need of prayer or wanting to get saved, they ALL helped the lost. If they had egos, they set them aside and did GOD's work. They were not trying to be competitive over their positions and place limitations on what they could do for the LORD based on their "position". For example, the Prophetess did not say that she could only give a word from the LORD but rather she didn't let her postion limit her and she helped to pray for the lost.

I attended this church for 12 years. I moved away from the church area but would drive an hour and a half when I could just to attend the church.

Now the Pastor I guess (?) was covered by her husband the Elder. He handled offerings/tithes and always gave the final word.

The church has been closed. They were having financial problems (couldn't hardly pay the mortgage). erplexed

I have heard another pastor say that women have no place in church leadership. He says that a woman should not be in the pulpit at all unless she is singing. And he justifies his beliefs with some scripture.

Within the Body of Christ, I have seen people justify that if it's not in the Bible, it's not a sin. I have also seen bible verses referenced and then people will justify that something is actually contradictory to what the bible says.

I won't go into detail here (I will start a thread) but how can we be one body to be presented to the LORD without spot or blemish if there is so much division.

It's time to not just talk the talk but to walk the walk. We belong to the Body of Christ. We have different gifts. We should be using our gifts to do the LORD's work and not worry about a title.

GOD KNOWS our hearts. "Playing church" won't get us into heaven.

I know that in some churches there has to be eh-order. But people sometimes get caught up in a title. I've seen a church that couldn't do the LORD's work because of competition over titles/positions.

We should not be trying to please man but rather GOD. And there shouldn't be competition with regards to the LORD's work. There is SO much for all of us to do. And everyone will have their time to let their little light shine.

 

[Poohbear]

Nowhere does that say that these women were apostles...

An apostle is just someone that proclaims the good news of Christ. That's what these women did with the 12 disciples. We (men and women) as Christians are to be disciples as well. Yeah you're right in the sense that the Bible doesn't LITERALLY or directly say these women were apostles, but their actions show that they were apostles, disciples, ministers, whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

 

[Poohbear]

It's time to not just talk the talk but to walk the walk. We belong to the Body of Christ. We have different gifts. We should be using our gifts to do the LORD's work and not worry about a title.

GOD KNOWS our hearts. "Playing church" won't get us into heaven.

I know that in some churches there has to be eh-order. But people sometimes get caught up in a title. I've seen a church that couldn't do the LORD's work because of competition over titles/positions.

We should not be trying to please man but rather GOD. And there shouldn't be competition with regards to the LORD's work. There is SO much for all of us to do. And everyone will have their time to let their little light shine.

EXACTLY! I liked what you have said above!!!

 

[divya]

An apostle is just someone that proclaims the good news of Christ. That's what these women did with the 12 disciples. We (men and women) as Christians are to be disciples as well. Yeah you're right in the sense that the Bible doesn't LITERALLY or directly say these women were apostles, but their actions show that they were apostles, disciples, ministers, whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

Yes, I am aware of the general meaning. However, I am simply speaking to the literal examples written in the Bible. The examples of the early church are still important for us today. People will disagree as to whether or not some things should be taken as is or not.

 

[divya]

Yes. specific positions are noted: bishop, deacon, and elder. There does not seem to be any disagreement with regard to these three offices. It is NOT specific concerning pastorship.

Ephesians 4:11: "11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

In this capacity, other than apostle, there is no gender directive. It says and he gave "some": both men and women. So just as the Lord was specific with the offices of bishop, deacon, and elder, He would have been specific here in Ephesians 4:11.

Further, it would be interesting to explore the Greek terms for these words to get clarity on the gender distinctions amongst those positions.

Yes, the verse seems very general. However, I have read in commentary, that the Greek form of "pastor" there actually is male. Further, later on, specifics are given. Some churches do not have bishops today as leaders, but rather pastors. As bishops were ordained for their position, so are today's pastors - to oversee the church. It's an equivalent position of leadership, of authority. I trust the Lord made it this way for a reason.

 

[PaperClip]

Yes, the verse seems very general. However, I have read in commentary, that the Greek form of "pastor" there actually is male. Further, later on, specifics are given. Some churches do not have bishops today as leaders, but rather pastors. As bishops were ordained for their position, so are today's pastors - to oversee the church. It's an equivalent position of leadership, of authority. I trust the Lord made it this way for a reason.

Absolutely.... and based on what you say here, a bishop (male) has the authority to place a woman (just like he would a man) into a position of pastoral leadership. A bishop is operating in proper order if he were to allow and ordain a woman into a pastorship. As the pastor of a church is responsible for leading that congregation, e.g., day-to-day responsibilities of pastoring, the bishop still oversees that pastor and that church.

Clearly, according to the Bible, bishops and pastors are not equivalent positions/roles/titles/functions. 1 Timothy 3 alone demonstrates that as it is a specific outline of the requirements to serve as a bishop. Now some churches may decide to make the two positions equivalent; that's their (misinterpreted?) perrogative.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Absolutely.... and based on what you say here, a bishop (male) has the authority to place a woman (just like he would a man) into a position of pastoral leadership. A bishop is operating in proper order if he were to allow and ordain a woman into a pastorship. As the pastor of a church is responsible for leading that congregation, e.g., day-to-day responsibilities of pastoring, the bishop still oversees that pastor and that church.

Clearly, according to the Bible, bishops and pastors are not equivalent positions/roles/titles/functions. 1 Timothy 3 alone demonstrates that as it is a specific outline of the requirements to serve as a bishop. Now some churches may decide to make the two positions equivalent; that's there (misinterpreted?) perrogative.

Love you, sis....

 

[divya]

Absolutely.... and based on what you say here, a bishop (male) has the authority to place a woman (just like he would a man) into a position of pastoral leadership. A bishop is operating in proper order if he were to allow and ordain a woman into a pastorship. As the pastor of a church is responsible for leading that congregation, e.g., day-to-day responsibilities of pastoring, the bishop still oversees that pastor and that church.

Clearly, according to the Bible, bishops and pastors are not equivalent positions/roles/titles/functions. 1 Timothy 3 alone demonstrates that as it is a specific outline of the requirements to serve as a bishop. Now some churches may decide to make the two positions equivalent; that's their (misinterpreted?) perrogative.

My post addresses both pastors and bishops.

Ephesians 4:11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The Greek form of Pastor here is said be male. Clearly in the Bible, bishops, pastors, deacons etc. are all to be male.

 

[Farida]

IMO women should be allowed to be pastors. I find it insulting that the bible forbids it.

 

[Farida]

The Lord never put any restrictions on women holding any position in the church neither did the Apostles or the early church. That's mess that crept in later. I think He does have them do it under the authority of their husbands though or another of their male authority. Paul referred to sisters as CO-laborers of the Gospel, equals. And in the O.T. Judges 4:4 the Lord made a woman ruler over Israel. "And DEBORAH, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, SHE judged Israel at that time." So doesn't it make since that if He would have a women be ruler over His people, the apple of His eye, a whole nation, that He wouldn't have a problem with one being a Pastor or Bishop or in any leadership position for that matter over a few folks in comparison?
As far as being silent in the church Paul clearly identifies what he's talking about. Stop talking during the service. If you have a question, if you've missed something that the preacher said don't ask during the message, wait and ask your husband when you get home. I don't know about at y'alls churches but I know at mine and some others I've attended the sisters are always trying to preach the service along with the Pastor and some have NO problem at all hollering from the pew to the pulpit asking the Pastor to repeat himselfI agree with Paul, it IS a shame, a cryin' shame

All the more reason I feel translations don't accurately convey meaning. I go to school with several seminary students and they study the bible in Greek and Hebrew and I have never heard anyone say this.

 

[PaperClip]

My post addresses both pastors and bishops.

Ephesians 4:11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The Greek form of Pastor here is said be male. Clearly in the Bible, bishops, pastors, deacons etc. are all to be male.

IMO women should be allowed to be pastors. I find it insulting that the bible forbids it.

Divya, I sincerely and graciously request that you "show your work", if you will, by sharing the greek form of pastor as you say it is...to inform our conversation, not to put you on the spot.

Vivmaiko, the Bible does not forbid women serving as pastors. And I amicably advise you to be careful about speaking against the Word of God. Because in a sense, it is speaking against the Holy Spirit, from whom the written/logos Word of God was inspired. We have to be careful that our foolish words don't turn against us. Thank God for a merciful Lord.

That's like me saying that I am insulted that the Bible says I can't have sex outside of marriage. (Example used to lighten the mood).

 

[PaperClip]

Hey, Divya:

I went ahead and looked it up myself....

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=pastor

Result of search for "pastor":

32. aggelos ang'-el-os from aggello (probably derived from 71; compare 34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:--angel, messenger.
1249. diakonos dee-ak'-on-os probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon, minister, servant.

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1249&Version=kjv

Lexicon Results for diakonos (Strong's G1249)
Greek for G1249
διάκονος Transliteration

diakonos

Pronunciation

dē-ä'-ko-nos (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine/feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands, cf G1377)
​

TDNT Reference

2:88,152​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
a) the servant of a king
b) a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
c) a waiter, one who serves food and drink


4166. poimen poy-mane' of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):--shepherd, pastor.

Lexicon Results for poimēn (Strong's G4166)
Greek for G4166
ποιμήν Transliteration

poimēn

Pronunciation

poi-mā'n (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

of uncertain affinity
​

TDNT Reference

6:485,901​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
2) metaph.
a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2) of kings and princes



Responding to what's below in red: Although Phoebe was not a "pastor" in the sense that we know it today, I believe this explanation still does not EXCLUDE women from pastoral leadership, as long as they have a male covering. In this case, the Apostle Paul would have (and did) served as Phoebe's spiritual covering/authority so that she has Paul's permission and support to minister to the church at Cenchrea.

Women Ministers?​

What about Phoebe? Notice:

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant [Greek: diakonos] of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also" (Romans 16:1-2, KJV).​

She was a diakonos. Does that mean she held the "office of deaconess"?
Make no mistake about it: Phoebe was a diakonos -- a minister! Notice a few different translations of this verse:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me" (verses 1-2, NIV). "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae" (verse 1, NRSV). "
And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea" (Young's Literal Translation).
​

Was Phoebe a minister? Oh, absolutely. Paul says so. Was she a church pastor? Probably not. She was a ministrant or servant, one who was actually serving the needs of others. When men take to themselves the title of "minister," only to become the man in charge and boss people around, that man is not a minister -- he's the boss man.

Rest of this at link: http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/are-female-ministers-in-the-bible.html

 

[Hair Iam]

I. AM. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. ON. HIATUS!!!!

Women can be pastors.

The Bible does not seem to support women being bishops.

The 1 Corinthians 14 reference has to be considered in CULTURAL context. The women were talking out loud, asking questions, ergo "If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home"....

I'm convinced that if the Lord would choose to use a WILLING woman before He uses a ROCK (Luke 19:40).

I'm convinced that if the Lord chose to use a DONKEY to speak His word, surely He would use a woman. (Numbers 22:21-41)
"28 Then God gave speech to the donkey. She said to Balaam: "What have I ever done to you that you have beat me these three times?"

What? According to this scripture, it was a FEMALE DONKEY!!!! WOW!!!!

I'm convinced that a woman can "carry" and "deliver" the Word of God. Mary did so (St. John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD!")

How many women do you know teach Sunday School? How about children's Sunday School? Is every child in the church female? Are there male children in Sunday School? Being taught by FEMALE TEACHERS?

I could not have formulated this better myself ..so Amen~!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Aveena]

I have serious questions about this as well.. what do you think of 1 timothy 2:11?


11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This was mentioned RIGHT before 1Tim 3 almost as to put aside and THEN deal with overseers and decons etc....

 

[Aveena]

The Greek word for woman in 1Tim 2:11 and 1Cor 14:34-35 is gune which specifically means a wife. The scriptures are the same. Paul is saying that a wife should not continuously ask her husband what's going on or try to explain it to him but to be quiet during the service. If she wants to know what she missed let her ask him when they get home. We have to keep the verse in context. He is obviously addressing a situation where a wife is talking to her husband during service and interupting it. He is not giving an example of a wife who is preaching a sermon. He is addressing a wife trying to LEARN something DURING the service.

ok I'm just seeing this... thx

 

[PaperClip]

I have serious questions about this as well.. what do you think of 1 timothy 2:11?


11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This was mentioned RIGHT before 1Tim 3 almost as to put aside and THEN deal with overseers and decons etc....

Your post, along with MsHoney's follow-up, prompted me to think about this: as it applies to a woman in the role of a WIFE, this would apply not only in the church setting but at home, yes? Esp. per the bolded statement?

A wife should not have authority over her husband. A husband should not LET his wife RUN HIM.... Not to say that a woman cannot be of service to her husband through offering her perspective with honor and respect toward her husband, but that she has to approach decently and in order....

...because apparently Eve started a pattern erplexed but through Jesus Christ (women will be saved through childbearing, e.g., Mary (a woman) gave birth to our Lord and SAVIOR Jesus Christ), we are redeemed from that curse of the law. We are redeemed and because the Lord knows the powerful influence of the woman, (maybe) that's why He set the order as He did....

Am I on or off base here?

 

[Aveena]

Your post, along with MsHoney's follow-up, prompted me to think about this: as it applies to a woman in the role of a WIFE, this would apply not only in the church setting but at home, yes? Esp. per the bolded statement?

A wife should not have authority over her husband. A husband should not LET his wife RUN HIM.... Not to say that a woman cannot be of service to her husband through offering her perspective with honor and respect toward her husband, but that she has to approach decently and in order....

...because apparently Eve started a pattern erplexed but through Jesus Christ (women will be saved through childbearing, e.g., Mary (a woman) gave birth to our Lord and SAVIOR Jesus Christ), we are redeemed from that curse of the law. We are redeemed and because the Lord knows the powerful influence of the woman, (maybe) that's why He set the order as He did....

Am I on or off base here?

This makes sense to me... thanks

 

[PaperClip]

This makes sense to me... thanks

Amen....

Here's how The Message says it:

1 Timothy 2


8-10Since prayer is at the bottom of all this, what I want mostly is for men to pray—not shaking angry fists at enemies but raising holy hands to God. And I want women to get in there with the men in humility before God, not primping before a mirror or chasing the latest fashions but doing something beautiful for God and becoming beautiful doing it.
11-15I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do. They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else. Adam was made first, then Eve; woman was deceived first—our pioneer in sin!—with Adam right on her heels. On the other hand, her childbearing brought about salvation, reversing Eve. But this salvation only comes to those who continue in faith, love, and holiness, gathering it all into maturity. You can depend on this.

 

[divya]

Divya, I sincerely and graciously request that you "show your work", if you will, by sharing the greek form of pastor as you say it is...to inform our conversation, not to put you on the spot.

Vivmaiko, the Bible does not forbid women serving as pastors. And I amicably advise you to be careful about speaking against the Word of God. Because in a sense, it is speaking against the Holy Spirit, from whom the written/logos Word of God was inspired. We have to be careful that our foolish words don't turn against us. Thank God for a merciful Lord.

That's like me saying that I am insulted that the Bible says I can't have sex outside of marriage. (Example used to lighten the mood).

I'll have to bring on the books on this one. I'll be back. Appreciate you looking it up online, although there are conflicting online sources regarding the definition of "pastor." Just run a general search and the translations and opinions vary...

 

[divya]

Hey, Divya:

I went ahead and looked it up myself....

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=pastor

Result of search for "pastor":

32. aggelos ang'-el-os from aggello (probably derived from 71; compare 34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:--angel, messenger.
1249. diakonos dee-ak'-on-os probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon, minister, servant.

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1249&Version=kjv

Lexicon Results for diakonos (Strong's G1249)
Greek for G1249
διάκονος Transliteration

diakonos

Pronunciation

dē-ä'-ko-nos (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine/feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands, cf G1377)
​

TDNT Reference

2:88,152​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
a) the servant of a king
b) a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
c) a waiter, one who serves food and drink


4166. poimen poy-mane' of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):--shepherd, pastor.

Lexicon Results for poimēn (Strong's G4166)
Greek for G4166
ποιμήν Transliteration

poimēn

Pronunciation

poi-mā'n (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

of uncertain affinity
​

TDNT Reference

6:485,901​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
2) metaph.
a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2) of kings and princes



Responding to what's below in red: Although Phoebe was not a "pastor" in the sense that we know it today, I believe this explanation still does not EXCLUDE women from pastoral leadership, as long as they have a male covering. In this case, the Apostle Paul would have (and did) served as Phoebe's spiritual covering/authority so that she has Paul's permission and support to minister to the church at Cenchrea.

Women Ministers?​

What about Phoebe? Notice:

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant [Greek: diakonos] of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also" (Romans 16:1-2, KJV).​

She was a diakonos. Does that mean she held the "office of deaconess"?
Make no mistake about it: Phoebe was a diakonos -- a minister! Notice a few different translations of this verse:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me" (verses 1-2, NIV). "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae" (verse 1, NRSV). "
And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea" (Young's Literal Translation).
​

Was Phoebe a minister? Oh, absolutely. Paul says so. Was she a church pastor? Probably not.She was a ministrant or servant, one who was actually serving the needs of others. When men take to themselves the title of "minister," only to become the man in charge and boss people around, that man is not a minister -- he's the boss man.

Rest of this at link: http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/are-female-ministers-in-the-bible.html

RR, did you read the above link that you posted in its entirety? It supports my point that females are not to be pastors!

Further down in the very same message it states...


Does this mean that there are female ministers in the Bible? Yes, it does. Not pastors, not "local elders," not bosses, but true servants of God! Are they only meek and weak servants, destined only to wash dishes and iron suits? http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/are-female-ministers-in-the-bible.html

The part that you pulled out was just one section of a message that states that women should not be pastors. and the different understandings of diakonos depending on the situation. It clearly states that the general understanding does not include pastorship and local elder positions for women.

 

[PaperClip]

RR, did you read the above link that you posted in its entirety? It supports my point that females are not to be pastors!

Further down in the very same message it states...


Does this mean that there are female ministers in the Bible? Yes, it does. Not pastors, not "local elders," not bosses, but true servants of God! Are they only meek and weak servants, destined only to wash dishes and iron suits? http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/are-female-ministers-in-the-bible.html

The part that you pulled out was just one section of a message that states that women should not be pastors. and the different understandings of diakonos depending on the situation. It clearly states that the general understanding does not include pastorship and local elder positions for women.

I included the link to the entire article for all to review.

It is not clear to me how the author of the link supports that women cannot be pastors. In the case of Phoebe, she happened to not have the title of pastor but she was doing the role/function of pastoring, or if nothing else, ministering to the church at Cenchrea under the covering of Apostle Paul.

As I stated earlier, it does not appear to be out of order biblically for a male authority, e.g., bishop to ordain and appoint a woman to a pastorship, as he is her overseer as she pastors that church.

 

[divya]

I included the link to the entire article for all to review.

It is not clear to me how the author of the link supports that women cannot be pastors. In the case of Phoebe, she happened to not have the title of pastor but she was doing the role/function of pastoring, or if nothing else, ministering to the church at Cenchrea under the covering of Apostle Paul.

As I stated earlier, it does not appear to be out of order biblically for a male authority, e.g., bishop to ordain and appoint a woman to a pastorship, as he is her overseer as she pastors that church.

For me, the author explains it quite well, but we can agree to disagree. This is an area where many Christians, even with denominations disagree. As long as we are doing our best, I'm sure the Lord will accept our honest hearts, and whatever we need correction on will come here or in the Kingdom.

 

[Caramela]

For me, the author explains it quite well, but we can agree to disagree. This is an area where many Christians, even with denominations disagree. As long as we are doing our best, I'm sure the Lord will accept our honest hearts, and whatever we need correction on will come here or in the Kingdom.

I'm not picking on you, Divya but a lot of people say something similar to this. This question isn't directe towards you but anyone who wants to answer... Wouldn't doing our best mean doing what the scriptures say? And wouldn't having an honest heart mean following what God has commanded?
I tend to find that many people want to "think" for God and say what he will do all the while blatantly disobeying his word.

 

[divya]

I'm not picking on you, Divya but a lot of people say something similar to this. This question isn't directe towards you but anyone who wants to answer... Wouldn't doing our best mean doing what the scriptures say?
I tend to find that many people want to "think" for God and say what he will do all the while blatantly disobeying his word.

That's exactly what it means. However, it is important to understand that God often reveals the truth to people at different times and in different ways. The man or woman who lives in the middle of nowhere who is illiterate and speaks a language that the vast majority of the world will likely be reached by the Holy Spirit in a different way than you or me. That's why you cannot make the statement alone by itself. Thus my statement in its entirety...

As long as we are doing our best, I'm sure the Lord will accept our honest hearts, and whatever we need correction on will come here or in the Kingdom.