Relationship between overall hair type and strand texture

[spinspinshuga]

Is your hair type inextricably linked to your strand texture? Are there any ladies out there, for instance, that have a 2a hair type with an extremely coarse strand, or is the texture of each individual strand part of what defines your hair texture? Does this classification system only take your curl pattern into consideration?

I ask because a friend of mine flat irons her hair very straight, and to the touch it feels the way 4b hair typically does when blow-dried. I always assumed she was relaxed, but she says she has naturally loose, wavy, 2a hair and that she uses no chemicals. I haven't seen her hair when it wasn't pressed and am just curious about the relationship between strand texture and hair type. I believe her, but have never seen this before and was wondering if any of you had this kind of hair or have seen it before.

 

[glamazon386]

It is to my understanding that any hair type can be coarse, medium or fine. You can have type 1's that are coarse and type 4's (which is probably less likely than a coarse type 1) that aren't.

 

[Denise11]

Ditto glamazon.

 

[aprils13]

I have exactly what you are talking about. I have a section that doesnt curl or draw up when wet. Its not coarse but it does feel different than the rest of my hair. I'm not sure if it is heat damage, heat trained, or going to stay that way.

 

[my1goodnerve]

I've been wondering the same thing-strand texture vs. hair type. My hair is a few inches beyond shoulder length. Yet when it's wet, it shrinks to ear length or neck length. I have coils and spirals, but it's soft to touch. I mean really soft, and that's regardless of how it dries. To look at it you would think that it would feel coarse, but that's not the case. My daughter has coarse hair-it looks coarse and feels coarse. My son has locs, soft beautiful locs. Folks are always surprised at the texture of his hair because of the softness.

 

[BotanyGrl]

It is to my understanding that any hair type can be coarse, medium or fine. You can have type 1's that are coarse and type 4's (which is probably less likely than a coarse type 1) that aren't.

I agree with the above. Hair typing is more of a visual thing and I think more focus should be placed on understanding your hair texture (fine, medium, or coarse stands) instead. The link below does a good job explaining hair textures and pretty much everything else about hair too

http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/curly hair basics.htm

 

[naijamerican]

I agree with BG and Glam. I'm starting to realize that texture is more important to consider than just the hair type.

However, I think that there are some textures where the hair type is inextricably linked - such as 4B hair, which is always described not only in terms of the coil, but also, with respect to the fact that it's coarse. Maybe it's a bias in the way we describe 4B hair that we need to break free of.

 

[anon123]

I agree with the above. Hair typing is more of a visual thing and I think more focus should be placed on understanding your hair texture (fine, medium, or coarse stands) instead. The link below does a good job explaining hair textures and pretty much everything else about hair too

http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/curly hair basics.htm

I was on the livecurlylivefree forum trying to understand this post and I just don't get it. What is texture? According to that post, it's both the diameter of your hair strands and some other characteristics like whether you have flyaways or can hold a style well or how the hair feels.

But that description makes no sense for my hair. By those classifications, my hair is fine if we go by strand diameter, medium if we go by how well it holds a set, and coarse if we go by how it feels. So ultimately, I could never figure out my hair texture.

 

[BotanyGrl]

However, I think that there are some textures where the hair type is inextricably linked - such as 4B hair, which is always described not only in terms of the coil, but also, with respect to the fact that it's coarse. Maybe it's a bias in the way we describe 4B hair that we need to break free of.

I'm with you on this. I don't know any 4Bs that don't have coarse hair. But I do know people who have what would be considered 2-4A hair types and their texture varies.

I was on the livecurlylivefree forum trying to understand this post and I just don't get it. What is texture? According to that post, it's both the diameter of your hair strands and some other characteristics like whether you have flyaways or can hold a style well or how the hair feels.

But that description makes no sense for my hair. By those classifications, my hair is fine if we go by strand diameter, medium if we go by how well it holds a set, and coarse if we go by how it feels. So ultimately, I could never figure out my hair texture.

The best way for me to tell my texture was by feeling. I can't tell by the size of the diameter, because they all look the same to me. My hair is coarse and as you go outwards it varies between medium and coarse strands. I did what is listed below.

So now that you know what hair texture is, how can you figure out your own? To determine your texture, grasp a single hair strand firmly between your thumb and index finger near the root, then run your fingers in the direction of scalp to end. If the hair feels barely there, is very soft and feels kind of flyaway, it's fine. If it feels a bit more substantial, but is still relatively smooth, it's medium. If it feels rough to the touch, it's coarse.

 

[anon123]

I'm with you on this. I don't know any 4Bs that don't have coarse hair. But I do know people who have what would be considered 2-4A hair types and their texture varies.



The best way for me to tell my texture was by feeling. I can't tell by the size of the diameter, because they all look the same to me. My hair is coarse and as you go outwards it varies between medium and coarse strands. I did what is listed below.

Yeah, I agree. Especially if our primary way of determining coarseness is by how the hair feels when you run your fingers along the length. Most 4bs will not feel anything close to silky. My hair feels coarse.

I guess when I think of strand size, I think of this test from the LOIS typing system (under "find your strand size"):

http://afroniquelyyou.sashashae.com/?p=22

So I actually took a picture!


According to LOIS, my strands are fine, almost medium at their thickest, but according to how it feels, they are coarse. But if my hair is coarse, it's not like it's described in the livefreelivecurly blog, because according to her coarse hair doesn't hold a style or curl well. My hair will hold a defined twist out for a week+ with no product.

I'm inclined to say that she's thinking characteristics that don't necessarily go together, do. In this way, I think the characteristics for my hair are very common for 4b (feels coarse, holds curl well, etc.), so that those characteristics that she describes as texture are highly correlated with curl pattern. Not saying there aren't 4bs who fit neatly in her texture boxes, but I think a great many don't.

Yeah, maybe this way of doing texture makes more sense for 2s and 3s.

 

[BotanyGrl]

But if my hair is coarse, it's not like it's described in the livefreelivecurly blog, because according to her coarse hair doesn't hold a style or curl well. My hair will hold a defined twist out for a week+ with no product.

I'm inclined to say that she's thinking characteristics that don't necessarily go together, do. In this way, I think the characteristics for my hair are very common for 4b (feels coarse, holds curl well, etc.), so that those characteristics that she describes as texture are highly correlated with curl pattern. Not saying there aren't 4bs who fit neatly in her texture boxes, but I think a great many don't.

You know... as many times as I viewed that page, I never noticed that statement before. My mom has 4B natural hair and she is thinking about paying someone to do twists. I told her she could them herself and did a two strand twist on her wet hair with no product. It was barely for a minute before I unraveled the twist... and it was very defined in that short amount of time. That surprised both of us because it was only in for a minute.

Yeah, I definitely don't agree with coarse hair not being able to hold a style. I just never noticed it said that until you pointed it out

I just did the thread test and my majority of my strands would be medium. As you get closer to my sides they look fine compared to the thread. This hair stuff is confusing. Has anybody else taken the thread test whose hair would be classified as coarse under that system?

 

[FlowerHair]

ITA with Glamazon.
Most people with my hair type - 3b/c - have silky smooth hair, but I don't.
My hairs are really thick and coarse and each strand is fully visible. I don't have any fine, wispy hairs anywhere.
I wouldn't say my hairs are as thick as a piece of thread, but not too far from it...

My best friend has the same hair type as me, but her hair is really silky and the strands are fine and thin. It curls up quickly, while my hair can easily straighten out a little bit and stay that way if I put it in a bun for a while etc. I think that's due to the coarseness, it's stiffer.

Here's something I found on how to determine coarseness
"Pull out a single hair.

Put it against a piece of white paper. This way you will identify your hair type much easier.

Fine hair is difficult to see and not easily felt between the fingers.

Medium hair is easily seen against the white paper, but it will not feel wiry between the fingers.

Coarse hair will be very visible against the white paper. It will feel quite wiry between the fingers." http://www.hair-styles-secrets-revealed.com/hair type.htm

 

[that_1_grrrl]

That is how I tested my hair. I also hold my shed hairs up to light sources. If the hair looks invisible, it's fine. If you can see it, but the hair appears lighter, it's medium. If you hair is visible and retains its color, it's coarse. My hair is a mixture but medium-coarse overall.

I also can tell by how my hair behaves. When my hair is dry, it really feels like a protein overload, dry and brittle. When my hair is getting the moisture it needs, it feels extremely strong. In fact, my coarsest strands are so strong that if I get a knot, one strand will pull another clear out of my head.

FlowerHair, my hair does the same! If I put my hair in large twists, it sometimes looks like I just did a half-butt job at flat-ironing.

ITA with Glamazon.
Most people with my hair type - 3b/c - have silky smooth hair, but I don't.
My hairs are really thick and coarse and each strand is fully visible. I don't have any fine, wispy hairs anywhere.
I wouldn't say my hairs are as thick as a piece of thread, but not too far from it...

My best friend has the same hair type as me, but her hair is really silky and the strands are fine and thin. It curls up quickly, while my hair can easily straighten out a little bit and stay that way if I put it in a bun for a while etc. I think that's due to the coarseness, it's stiffer.

Here's something I found on how to determine coarseness
"Pull out a single hair.

Put it against a piece of white paper. This way you will identify your hair type much easier.

Fine hair is difficult to see and not easily felt between the fingers.

Medium hair is easily seen against the white paper, but it will not feel wiry between the fingers.

Coarse hair will be very visible against the white paper. It will feel quite wiry between the fingers." http://www.hair-styles-secrets-revealed.com/hair type.htm

 

[FlowerHair]

That is how I tested my hair. I also hold my shed hairs up to light sources. If the hair looks invisible, it's fine. If you can see it, but the hair appears lighter, it's medium. If you hair is visible and retains its color, it's coarse. My hair is a mixture but medium-coarse overall.

I also can tell by how my hair behaves. When my hair is dry, it really feels like a protein overload, dry and brittle. When my hair is getting the moisture it needs, it feels extremely strong. In fact, my coarsest strands are so strong that if I get a knot, one strand will pull another clear out of my head.

FlowerHair, my hair does the same! If I put my hair in large twists, it sometimes looks like I just did a half-butt job at flat-ironing.

That's interesting! I'm sure that's a sign of coarse hair...

 

[glamazon386]

I've been wondering the same thing-strand texture vs. hair type. My hair is a few inches beyond shoulder length. Yet when it's wet, it shrinks to ear length or neck length. I have coils and spirals, but it's soft to touch. I mean really soft, and that's regardless of how it dries. To look at it you would think that it would feel coarse, but that's not the case. My daughter has coarse hair-it looks coarse and feels coarse. My son has locs, soft beautiful locs. Folks are always surprised at the texture of his hair because of the softness.

My hair is a 4 too and it's not coarse. It never has been my whole life. I've heard some people describe hair like this as the "silky texture" here on the board. It's thin and wispy like. It doesn't look kinky textured down the strand when straightened either. Most of the time coarse hair does. It also straightens easily.

IIRC, cocoberry made a thread about this a while back with pictures.

 

[glamazon386]

According to LOIS, my strands are fine, almost medium at their thickest, but according to how it feels, they are coarse. But if my hair is coarse, it's not like it's described in the livefreelivecurly blog, because according to her coarse hair doesn't hold a style or curl well. My hair will hold a defined twist out for a week+ with no product.

I always thought it was the opposite. That coarse hair holds styles better because it is stiff. Maybe that's just true for textured hair? I can see coarse type 1 or even 2 hair falling flat/straight from the weight of the hair. But black women can do all kinds of styles with their hair with the right products and techniques.

ITA with Glamazon.
Most people with my hair type - 3b/c - have silky smooth hair, but I don't.
My hairs are really thick and coarse and each strand is fully visible. I don't have any fine, wispy hairs anywhere. I wouldn't say my hairs are as thick as a piece of thread, but not too far from it...

My best friend has the same hair type as me, but her hair is really silky and the strands are fine and thin. It curls up quickly, while my hair can easily straighten out a little bit and stay that way if I put it in a bun for a while etc. I think that's due to the coarseness, it's stiffer.

I think 3 is the type that goes both ways the most. Some 3's have a silky shiny texture and others have the kinky texture that doesn't shine even though both have the same size curls.

 

[ebonylocs]

I don't think the link is what is widely thought, e.g. 4B hair = coarse strands, type 1 hair = fine strands.

My Chinese friends have type 1 hair and their strands are much thicker than mine. So their hair is "coarse" in terms of strength of it, but of course, it's silky to the touch.

My 4B hair has very fine flimsy strands. People who touched it when it was natural were usually surprised at how soft it was, especially since it's very dense. However, even though it's soft, people might call it "coarse", simply because when you run your hands over it, it feels *highly textured* and tangly and not silky at all. However calling it "coarse" is very misleading because it disguises how fragile and flimsy my individual strands are.

 

[FluffyRed]

I've seen straight hair that is coarse - in asian men, especially.

And a young Mexican girl with thick coarse wavy hair. I braided it for her. It was down her back and the finished braid was like 5 inches around!!!

 

[spinspinshuga]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I think my terminology was wrong and I didn't use the term coarse correctly in reference to hair. By coarse, I meant having a rough texture, but didn't want to use that term because it sounds somewhat pejorative. Her hair and strands are actually quite fine, but the hair itself feels the way cottony hair does when blowdried. What is this described as? Coarse just seemed like the most intuitive term, but I guess that's not quite right.

ETA: I reread Glamazon's post about "silky textures," so I suppose that answers my question So it's silky versus coarse?

 

[that_1_grrrl]

Yeah, I think silky/cottony/wiry/etc. is separate from both hair type and strand texture. Although, I think a combination of the two might help decide how your hair will feel.

I don't think the link is what is widely thought, e.g. 4B hair = coarse strands, type 1 hair = fine strands.

My Chinese friends have type 1 hair and their strands are much thicker than mine. So their hair is "coarse" in terms of strength of it, but of course, it's silky to the touch.

My 4B hair has very fine flimsy strands. People who touched it when it was natural were usually surprised at how soft it was, especially since it's very dense. However, even though it's soft, people might call it "coarse", simply because when you run your hands over it, it feels *highly textured* and tangly and not silky at all. However calling it "coarse" is very misleading because it disguises how fragile and flimsy my individual strands are.

 

[ryanshope]

The relationship between hair "type" and strand is very confusing. My hair is 4a/b--the hair strands are medium to thick; I have ALOT of hairs on my head so it is dense as well. What I have found with my natural hair is that my hair "coils" easily--small pen coil curls--easily on the "B" side or the "give me back my $$" side as my SO calls it..lol. The top is a lil looser---the curls up there coil to the size of the pencil or pen itself; but the back and sides are like the coil on the inside of the pen. Coarse hair; especially highly textured hair almost never needs holding spraying or mouse to retain its shape. And when my hair is straight; it has alot of volume(from the density and coarse strands).

Now since this is my first foray into "natcha" hair; I don't know how it will behave one my hair gets longer--I need to post some updated pics.

 

[livesoundtech]

Great topic! Every time I have a question about my hair, someone has already addressed it

I have very very overprocessed hair, but stopped using all chemical treatments in August 2008. All I use now is BKT without formaldehyde, and I'm using this so that I can transition back to healthy hair.

I hadn't seen my natural hair in 10 years, and I've since noticed that even though my hair looks like a type 2 from far away, the individual strands look like mini springs and small "s"-type squiggles. My hair is pretty thin because of the processing, but my new growth feels thicker. I've noticed about half of my strands are super coarse and wiry, while the others still look limp and thin.

 

[glamazon386]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I think my terminology was wrong and I didn't use the term coarse correctly in reference to hair. By coarse, I meant having a rough texture, but didn't want to use that term because it sounds somewhat pejorative. Her hair and strands are actually quite fine, but the hair itself feels the way cottony hair does when blowdried. What is this described as? Coarse just seemed like the most intuitive term, but I guess that's not quite right.

ETA: I reread Glamazon's post about "silky textures," so I suppose that answers my question So it's silky versus coarse?

I would say coarse, medium and fine.

 

[Melissa-jane]

i agree the crown of my head has always appeared to be a two type does not shrink and has a slight wave but all of my hair is course.....actually i have some 4a areas that are fine.

 

[Melissa-jane]

The relationship between hair "type" and strand is very confusing. My hair is 4a/b--the hair strands are medium to thick; I have ALOT of hairs on my head so it is dense as well. What I have found with my natural hair is that my hair "coils" easily--small pen coil curls--easily on the "B" side or the "give me back my $$" side as my SO calls it..lol. The top is a lil looser---the curls up there coil to the size of the pencil or pen itself; but the back and sides are like the coil on the inside of the pen. Coarse hair; especially highly textured hair almost never needs holding spraying or mouse to retain its shape. And when my hair is straight; it has alot of volume(from the density and coarse strands).

Now since this is my first foray into "natcha" hair; I don't know how it will behave one my hair gets longer--I need to post some updated pics.

i spy a hair twin!