ARE CHRISTIANS SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION?

[Sharpened]

Nope, and I didn't say so either. My post is easy to understand. I have no agendas. Simply put, maybe some people should ask their pastors.

Philippians 2:12 Why, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

The Holy Spirit is Our Guide and Comfort; is He not enough? For some, Jesus is their pastor and the example they follow. Is that not good enough? What are those surrounded by apostasy or living in the middle of nowhere supposed to do?

 

[Mahalialee4]

Yeah, I believe I already provided the scriptures. Christ is reigning right now, from heaven. This is that time. There exists evil alongside good and Satan is somewhat chained, thereby not being able to totally deceive mankind. The ultimate solution to the world's woes will be Jesus' Second Coming. The bible doesn't indicate a third.

THE SUBJECT IS 'THE KINGDOM' OF CHRIST! Do not 'side step the issue' which you are contradicting.

Christ “triumphed and reigned” over Satan in the heavens long ago, when he rose from the grave....that is in the SCRIPTURES. That is without dispute.


But Satan has been cast down to the earth. He is the “Prince of the power of the air”, According to Scripture. He is waging war on God’s people,..obviously the old heavens and the old earth have not passed away…and the Bible says the worst times in history are still coming…..tribulation and destruction: THAT IS IN THE SCRIPTURES. That is without dispute.

It is written:
2 Peter 3:1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the HOLY PROPHETS, and of THE COMMANDMENTS OF US THE APOSTLES OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR:
3Knowing this first, that there shall come IN THE LAST DAYS SCOFFERS, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT AND PERDITION OF UNGODLY MEN”.
Your truth: Nothing will change….“we are now LIVING in the GOLDEN AGE?” side by side with INCREASING evil …and imply ‘THIS TIME FRAME IS THE LONG AWAITED FULFILLMENT OF PROMISE’...THAT YOU CALL THE ‘GOLDEN AGE’…which is implying that YOU DO NOT believe a literal kingdom, a government, filled with RIGHTEOUSNESS, is going to occur or that there is going to be a new heaven and a new earth and that the ‘144,000’ will reign with him on the earth. Your truth nullifies the fulfillment of the prophecies of the prophets, and Christ himself about His kingdom and government..
Bible Truth: The Scriptures do not talk about ‘any GOLDEN AGE’. It speaks of a Kingdom, government , a thousand year reign on a new earth filled with RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT FILLED WITH A MIXTURE OF GOOD AND EVIL, NOT even containing UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

God’s reality: There is going to be a LITERAL FULFILLMENT to the PROPHECIES. A RIGHTEOUS GOVERNMENT AND KINGDOM........RULED BY CHRIST....AND THE FULFILLMENT WILL TAKE PLACE ON THE EARTH.....'this is the EVERLASTING GOOD NEWS OF .....'THE KINGDOM'...THAT GOVERNMENT! prophesied in the Gospel of the CHRIST IN THE SCRIPTURES BY CHRIST, AS THE FULFILLMENT OF WHAT HE CAME TO DO! TO BREAK UP ...DESTROY.....THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL!!!!

1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. FOR THIS PURPOSE THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL."


Paul preached the GOSPEL OF CHRIST. Now if YOU have a ‘different TRUTH’ a ‘different REALITY’ a ‘different KINGDOM’, ‘INTERESTINGLY’ called the ‘GOLDEN AGE’…a ‘different gospel' than what Paul preached… A DIFFERENT GOSPEL THAT promotes HOPE AND BELIEF in A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT AND EARTH FILLED WITH GOOD AND EVIL.., and claim that this corruption WILL BE HEADED BY CHRIST and say that this ‘counterfeit golden age’ is the FULFILLMENT…THIS DOES NOT COME FROM THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS, APOSTLES AND CHRIST…..

You really need to ask yourself some serious questions:

‘WHICH CHRIST” are YOU talking about? ‘Which GOSPEL? Which THOUSAND YEARS? The one taught by MAN THAT CONTRADICTS THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST AND SCOFFS AGAINST HIS PROMISES? WHO ARE YOU FOLLOWING?

1 Corinthinans: 8: 5 “For though there be that are called gods, whether IN HEAVEN or in EARTH (as there be GODS MANY, and LORDS MANY)”

Some MAY claim to rule HIGHER than the Father in heaven, have the power to CHANGE HIS WORD, CHANGE SCRIPTURE, HAVE AUTHORITY OVER HEAVEN, EARTH AND HELL…..showing the world that they are a “god”, putting their throne above that of the Father…ruling in the place of Christ….REPLACING CHRIST…claiming the full AUTHORITY OF CHRIST… QUESTION: so if CHRIST is ALIVE…and RULING ….why would any PROFESSED 'CHRISTIAN MAN' NEED TO FILL IN FOR CHRIST, CLAIMING TO BE 'CHRIST ON EARTH' AND PARADING AROUND LIKE GOD?....that is 'anti Christ' meaning in the place of, instead of..... The Scriptures prophesied, JESUS PROPHESIED….’MANY SHALL COME IN MY NAME…SAYING…”I AM THE CHRIST’ AND SHALL DECEIVE MANY…." That Scripture is among the many you may have overlooked.

Paul GAVE SEVERAL DIRE WARNINGS ABOUT REJECTING THE DOCTRINE AND GOSPEL OF CHRIST:

Galatians 1: 6 “I marvel that YE ARE SO SOON REMOVED FROM HIM that called you into THE GRACE OF CHRIST ...unto ANOTHER GOSPEL: 7Which is not another; but there be SOME THAT TROUBLE YOU, and would PERVERT the GOSPEL OF CHRIST. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU than that ye have received, let him be accursed”

.
THIS Scripture is also being fulfilled!

2 Thessalonians 2:1 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, AS THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD IS AT HAND. 3 LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS:


FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; 4 WHO OPPOSETH, AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED, SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that HE MIGHT BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME. 7For THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked BE REVEALED, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And WITH ALL DECEIVABLENESS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IN THEM THAT PERISH; because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. 11And FOR THIS CAUSE GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE: 12That they all might be damned who BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Your implying that a ‘Third coming’ has been suggested is 'unwarranted.' Now you can slip and slide around all the Scriptures, ignore the precepts and the prophecies and come to your own conclusions…but the Scriptures are clear….ANY ONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST will be turned over to a ‘DELUSION’…AND BELIEVE A LIE.., because There are TWO CHOICES. The Gospel of Christ…or ‘another gospel’... WHICH IS NOT A ANOTHER ... BUT IS A ‘a PERVERTED GOSPLELl’...that is without dispute.

 

[Guitarhero]

THE SUBJECT IS 'THE KINGDOM' OF CHRIST! Do not 'side step the issue' which you are contradicting.

.

I don't know about you but I surely know about me. Nobody in my skin is side-stepping the OP's topic which is, "are christians supposed to go through the tribuation." Several here believe they will. I am one of them. Because YOU do not believe what I wrote - which, by the way, was very respectful of race and creed of anyone on earth - does not give you the right to call anybody deceived. You simply have a different perspective, which is your God-given right. I provided scriptures and an interpretation which I believe answered OP's question from this end. It's still an open question. Everyone in this thread has done the same as me, giving their opinion based upon what they were taught, backed up by scripture albeit, minus hits and jabs.

 

[Guitarhero]

The Holy Spirit is Our Guide and Comfort; is He not enough? For some, Jesus is their pastor and the example they follow. Is that not good enough? What are those surrounded by apostasy or living in the middle of nowhere supposed to do?

I never said that He wasn't. What I suggested, and maybe my post should be reread within it's proper context, is that individual interpretations have been wrong. Pastoral interpretations have also been wrong. Church interpretations have been wrong. We rely upon the Holy Spirit for guidance but the precedence before Christ and throughout His walk on earth has been through a teaching system within the religious community that is guided as a whole by the Holy Spirit. That for matters as theologically difficult as Revelations, perhaps people ought ask their leadership they follow for the "proper" interpretation.


And just to add to the clarification of what I mean, take this thread, for example. A question was posed as to whether we'll go through the tribulation time. Many opinions of post-millenialism, amillenialism and pre-millenialism have been given. All have provided scripture for what they believe it to be saying. Opinions are differing. That's individual interpretation right here on the site. But I say, what does your church specifically tell you? That's group effort to understand and take a stance on the subject. They've come to terms on what they believe is truth and all under that should abide by it. If people do not worship in a specific church, then, what does their worship group think and come to consensus about it? In other words, any opinions can be refuted because it's not the same as, say, the Ten Commandments. Even we had to come to some kind of consensus about those in the past.

 

[Sharpened]

I never said that He wasn't. What I suggested, and maybe my post should be reread within it's proper context, is that individual interpretations have been wrong. Pastoral interpretations have also been wrong. Church interpretations have been wrong. We rely upon the Holy Spirit for guidance but the precedence before Christ and throughout His walk on earth has been through a teaching system within the religious community that is guided as a whole by the Holy Spirit. That for matters as theologically difficult as Revelations, perhaps people ought ask their leadership they follow for the "proper" interpretation.


And just to add to the clarification of what I mean, take this thread, for example. A question was posed as to whether we'll go through the tribulation time. Many opinions of post-millenialism, amillenialism and pre-millenialism have been given. All have provided scripture for what they believe it to be saying. Opinions are differing. That's individual interpretation right here on the site. But I say, what does your church specifically tell you? That's group effort to understand and take a stance on the subject. They've come to terms on what they believe is truth and all under that should abide by it. If people do not worship in a specific church, then, what does their worship group think and come to consensus about it? In other words, any opinions can be refuted because it's not the same as, say, the Ten Commandments. Even we had to come to some kind of consensus about those in the past.

Group think? I understand perfectly what you are saying, but what can one do when surrounded by errors unseen or ignored by believers at large? Can you understand those who want the Pure Water of His Word and the Unleavened Bread of His Knowledge straight from Him? Why are you having trouble processing this reality? Does it scare you or something?

As for this topic, the key is the last trump and the seventh trumpet being one in the same. Also, Jesus did warn us that we would be persecuted in His name. See John 15:20, Romans 8:35, 2 Timothy 3:12.

Trust nothing of what any man or group says. Don’t even trust your own mind. Ask the Father always.

 

[aribell]

If we put ourselves in the shoes of any follower of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, from Noah to John exiled on the Island of Patmos, interpretation of God's revelation was given to specific leaders and learning, hearing, and understanding was a community event. We have personal bibles today because technology makes such possible. But the image of a person sticking Scripture in their back pocket and going home to understand "for themselves" what it meant really isn't the biblical picture. With the exception of the Fathers, Apostles and Prophets, understanding God's revelation has always (Scripturally speaking) been a community affair.

We have gifts in the Body of Christ, which Paul says are given for the growth and edification of the Body, till we come to complete knowledge. These are apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. These positions are found and fulfilled in the community of believers. God didn't promise full knowledge and revelation to any particular Christian--He promised it to the Church. We as a whole have to come to understand these things together. When we come together, God's Spirit will work through the gifts and callings of the leaders and ministers of the Church to lead us to all truth. John does say in 1 John 2 that "you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you...you will abide in him." So John says that we do have an anointing from the Spirit that enables us to know the truth--but he was not speaking to an individual person, but to a church community, to whom the letter was addressed.

Notice, I have nothing to say about the original topic as my understanding of Scripture is that there is no "left behind" type Rapture. However, I do not believe these issues are for us to figure out on our own. As Peter clearly says, "No Scripture is of private interpretation." There is great benefit to reading the Word regularly on one's own, meditating on it, etc. However pouring over God's commands, the biblical stories, etc. for encouragement, guidance and instruction in one's Christian walk is different than coming to doctrinal conclusions based upon one's interpretation of Scripture.

Doctrine is for the Body of Christ to sort out in community. We all have questions and so long as we're reading our Bibles will have many more. But where the Body has not in unity spoken definitively on a doctrinal question, we cannot announce a definite conclusion on our own. I know that this grates against our present Christian culture, but my point is only that with such things, we should keep asking the questions, talk about it, and then as was stated above, take it back into our Chrisitian communities. I personally believe that the "doctrinal confusion" in the church(es) is a consequence of our refusal to have patience with the process of leaning upon one another to gain understanding, and waiting till there is unity. As soon as one person sees something differently, a finger is pointed at everyone else. But I digress...That was a tangential post...but it was my only response after reading.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I don't know about you but I surely know about me. Nobody in my skin is side-stepping the OP's topic which is, "are christians supposed to go through the tribuation." Several here believe they will. I am one of them. Because YOU do not believe what I wrote - which, by the way, was very respectful of race and creed of anyone on earth - does not give you the right to call anybody deceived. You simply have a different perspective, which is your God-given right. I provided scriptures and an interpretation which I believe answered OP's question from this end. It's still an open question. Everyone in this thread has done the same as me, giving their opinion based upon what they were taught, backed up by scripture albeit, minus hits and jabs.

I always respond with questions or Scripture on topics: I am not required to believe you on the matter. Nor are you required to believe me. That is why the Scriptures are posted in response to statements involving Doctrine.

THIS quote of yours(as you already know, is what I am addressing.) This is what you side stepped in your reply.


“REVELATIONS is symbolic and “”””””””THE GOLDEN AGE””””””” IS NOT ONE WHERE THERE’S GOING TO BE A TOTAL LACK OF EVIL, BUT WILL COEXIST WITH THE GOOD, AS IS NOW. Christ's Church ALREADY RULES, BUT FROM HEAVEN, There will be a day when the believers are gathered together, rapture, but not until the Second Coming. There are not three according to what I was taught, based upon scriptures. And the following DO NOT INDICATE THAT CHRIST WAS ON THE EARTH DURING THIS REIGN. Rather, IT IS IN HEAVEN.”




Your ‘PERSONAL private interpretation’ that there would ‘NOT BE’ A TOTAL LACK OF EVIL in the coming thousand year REIGN OF CHRIST WHEN THE FATHER’S WILL IS DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN….Revelation is symbolic’…EVIL WILL COEXIST with the GOOD, AS IS NOW” And I say the ‘Scriptures’ do not tell you that…and I took Scriptural issue with what you said. Neither do they say that there will be a ‘third coming’, so no need to reply to that “implication”.



The crux of the matter is
Will it be A ‘KINGDOM WHERE RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL DWELL, or will it be a MIXTURE OF EVIL AND GOOD…AS IT IS NOW….meaning ‘no change’ or not?
Those are the Scriptures I posted, and let the Scriptures say for themselves.

THAT is what you stepped your foot into…THAT I AM REFERRING TO and now you want to dash back to “Oh I was ONLY speaking re: ‘whether Christians would go through the Great Tribulation…and responding to the OP original post.. What you said about the “golden age”, and “the reign of Christ” and what you said about that “reign” is what I am taking issue with.



The Original Poster’s Quote: Did not bring up anything to ask or question or suggest the things that you were stating and apparently believe. How does your statement ((((that I am referring to)))…find its root in this original post?

Original Person's Post: Taken from the Top:



"Ladies, I am so confused .

All my life I've learned that the rapture will come, take all of us away and then the GREAT TRIBULATION. After 7 years, and after the 7 plagues, we will then come back with Jesus for the final battle.

Now I am hearing from certain preachers that the rapture will take place after the tribulation - and anything else is a lie. We as Christians are to go through the "struggle" and come out stronger - right when everyone turns on us, Jesus will appear.

I'm not sure this makes sense

I've read Revelations - and watched topics about Armageddon etc. on the History channel, and I can't see God putting us through THAT (GREAT TRIBULATION) . But then I think, during the mass exodus the Egyptians went through similar plagues, but the Israelites were spared. I believe this proved to Pharaoh and the idol worshippers that God is real, and the protector of His people - would He show the world this again by letting us live through THE TRIBULATION?

Is there any hope for those Christians who were left behind, to go back with Jesus after THE TRIBULATION?"


YES. SHE DEFINITELY POSTED ON THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

In my response to her:
I personally posted Scriptures on the Kingdom and the reign of Christ and the thousand years ALLOWING THE SCRIPTURES TO STATE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE DURING THAT TIME.

You interjected at some point and made a STATEMENT:
““”””””””THE GOLDEN AGE””””””” IS NOT ONE WHERE THERE’S GOING TO BE A TOTAL LACK OF EVIL, BUT WILL COEXIST WITH THE GOOD, AS IS NOW. Christ's Church ALREADY RULES, BUT FROM HEAVEN….

You also referring to someone else’s post and stated:
“And the following DO NOT INDICATE “THAT CHRIST WAS ON THE EARTH DURING THIS REIGN. Rather, IT IS IN HEAVEN”

AGAIN YOU WERE ‘PINPOINTING THE REIGN OF CHRIST’…AND QUESTIONING WHERE CHRIST WOULD BE DURING THIS REIGN…STATING ‘WHAT YOU THOUGHT OR DID NOT THINK ABOUT IT.

So yes. You went THERE. Speaking of the ‘reign of Christ and what you THOUGHT ABOUT IT. I believe that Christ can speak for himself so I posted what He and the Word had to say in different Scriptures giving a broad view of Scripture. No one else was giving great emphasis to the Kingdom rule of 1000 years and citing a multitude of Scriptural descriptions, except me.

I did not give my opinion, OR SAY ‘this is what I was taught”, or ‘this is MY INTERPRETATION” … I ask questions and post the Scriptures.

Whether I agree or disagree, I post the Scriptures. If something is STATED that DISAGREES WITH THE SCRIPTURES, I POST MORE SCRIPTURES. Here is my reason for doing so: When the direct quote from the Word is posted in full view, there in front of those reading it…..the person reading it will either end up doing their own interpretation of it or just accept it. And if they are offended by the direct quote from the Scripture, their problem is really with the Scriptures. Do not hurry in your spirit to be offended because YOUR statement was challenged by Posted Scriptures. You constantly challenge, often without any Scripture and with JMO's. I am sure you are already aware of that. And I stand on the Word that it warns about being deceived if we do not love Truth? Why did you apply that Sripture to yourself to become offended by the Scripture?

Isaiah 55: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11SO SHALL MY WORD BE that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing hereto I sent it. “
Hebrews 4:12 “ For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”

Jeremiah 23: 29 IS NOT MY WORD LIKE A FIRE? saith the LORD; and LIKE A HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces? 30

DOES IT HAVE POWER WHEN SPOKEN?
Jeremiah 5:14 Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of hosts, "Because you have spoken this word, Behold, I AM MAKING MY WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH FIRE, And this people wood, and it will consume them.
2 Corinthians 10:5 We are DESTROYING SPECULATIONS and EVERY LOFTY THING RAISED UP AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, and WE ARE TAKING EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST.”

This is why, I do not SAY WHAT I THINK THE SCRIPTURE IS SAYING, I just post the Scriptures, and LET THOSE WORDS SPEAK AND GO FORTH AND DO WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS THAT THE WORD WILL DO…..ALL BY ITSELF…..

 

[Mahalialee4]

If we put ourselves in the shoes of any follower of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, from Noah to John exiled on the Island of Patmos, interpretation of God's revelation was given to specific leaders and learning, hearing, and understanding was a community event. We have personal bibles today because technology makes such possible. But the image of a person sticking Scripture in their back pocket and going home to understand "for themselves" what it meant really isn't the biblical picture. With the exception of the Fathers, Apostles and Prophets, understanding God's revelation has always (Scripturally speaking) been a community affair.

We have gifts in the Body of Christ, which Paul says are given for the growth and edification of the Body, till we come to complete knowledge. These are apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. These positions are found and fulfilled in the community of believers. God didn't promise full knowledge and revelation to any particular Christian--He promised it to the Church. We as a whole have to come to understand these things together. When we come together, God's Spirit will work through the gifts and callings of the leaders and ministers of the Church to lead us to all truth. John does say in 1 John 2 that "you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you...you will abide in him." So John says that we do have an anointing from the Spirit that enables us to know the truth--but he was not speaking to an individual person, but to a church community, to whom the letter was addressed.

Notice, I have nothing to say about the original topic as my understanding of Scripture is that there is no "left behind" type Rapture. However, I do not believe these issues are for us to figure out on our own. As Peter clearly says, "No Scripture is of private interpretation." There is great benefit to reading the Word regularly on one's own, meditating on it, etc. However pouring over God's commands, the biblical stories, etc. for encouragement, guidance and instruction in one's Christian walk is different than coming to doctrinal conclusions based upon one's interpretation of Scripture.

Doctrine is for the Body of Christ to sort out in community. We all have questions and so long as we're reading our Bibles will have many more. But where the Body has not in unity spoken definitively on a doctrinal question, we cannot announce a definite conclusion on our own. I know that this grates against our present Christian culture, but my point is only that with such things, we should keep asking the questions, talk about it, and then as was stated above, take it back into our Chrisitian communities. I personally believe that the "doctrinal confusion" in the church(es) is a consequence of our refusal to have patience with the process of leaning upon one another to gain understanding, and waiting till there is unity. As soon as one person sees something differently, a finger is pointed at everyone else. But I digress...That was a tangential post...but it was my only response after reading.

This is my reference:
Here is where I am coming from:

1. Christ already laid out the Doctrine. So did the Apostles. That is the Foundation of our beliefs. And their Foundation was based on Christ and His Teachings and His Doctrine.

1 Corinthians 3:11 “For NO MAN CAN LAY A FOUNDATION OTHER THAN THE ONE WHICH IS LAID, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST.”


Ephesians 3:5 “WHICH IN OTHER GENERATIONS WAS NOT MADE KNOW TO THE SONS OF MEN, AS IT HAS NOW BEEN REVEALED TO HIS HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS IN THE SPIRIT;”

Ephesians 2: 18” For through HIM we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Meeting in groups is not the problem and THEY are not the undisputed solution, especially if they are walking and believing in error:

My concern is when ‘Man’ and ‘groups’ continue 'to justify coming up with and needing more than this FOUNDATION that was already laid. NEEDING TO GO BEYOND AND AROUND THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST and forming their own consensus IN SPITE OF WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY...IS THE PROBLEM. The Solution is ‘sticking to the Doctrine of Christ’.

The Israelites in the wilderness were in a group. The nation of Israel was in a group.
The ‘body of Christ is scattered all over the world, meeting in ‘groups’ and ‘existing divided’ in ‘doctrine’ and ‘teaching’ setting this example for the world, .’ Local churches are divided. People have there own interpretations and cannot agree. Just like this assembly in the book of Acts…

Acts 19:32Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together’

Can it be possible that when a group gets together and FORMS A GROUP 'INTERPRETATION' OF WHAT HE SAID instead of 'accepting' what is written, or end up trying to make what Christ and the Apostles said "squeeze and fit into their 'particular sway and slant".. and after much ‘struggle’ they MOVE FROM THEIR INTERPRETATION TO FORM A CONSENSUS that they can be DEAD WRONG? ..Judging by the DOCTRINAL CONFLICTS IN WHAT PROFESSES TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE CHURCH WHERE WE NOW HAVE A MULTITUDE OF 'GROUP PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS', there is a BIG PROBLEM. The world is laughing at Christians, for this very thing.
It has been said to me by those 'in the world': "Christians say they are following Christ...and that He is the head, that they are His body....look how many different kinds of heads they have, on that same body, speaking different things out of different mouths.....on the same thing...they are the most 'divided bunch on the face of the earth..."

The Israelites had A GROUP CONSENSUS IN THE WILDERNESS. They were the “Church in the wilderness”. Remember the repercussions.

Numbers 20:4 “And why have ye brought up the congregation of the LORD into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there?
Acts 7: 38 “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:”
Nehemiah 9: 16But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and HEARKENED NOT TO THY COMMANDMENTS, 17And REFUSED TO OBEY, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and IN THEIR REBELLION APPOINTED A CAPTAIN TO RETURN TO THEIR BONDAGE: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not. 18Yea, when they had MADE THEM A MOLTEN CALF , and said, THIS IS THY GOD that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;
Exodus 32:1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, THE PEOPLE GATHERED THEMSELVES TOGETHER UNTO AARON, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; ((((for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him.))))……Note: the people blamed MOSES for their sin 2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4And he received them at their hand, and FASHIONED IT WITH A GRAVING TOOL, , AFTER HE HAD MADE IT INTO A MOLTEN CALF: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5And WHEN ARON SAW IT, HE BUILT AN ALTAR BEFORE IT; and AARON MADE PROCLAMATION and said, “TOMORROW IS A FEAST TO THE LORD” 6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play............2121And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, THAT THOU HAS BROUGHT SO GREAT A SIN UPON THEM 22And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief. 23For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. 24And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf."

 

[Mahalialee4]

Yes. Some would say that 'Aaron passed the buck'. Paraphrase {"Don’t get angry Moses. You know how these people are! Set on ‘mischief!”…THEY TOLD ME TO DO IT…they gave me the gold…I threw it in the fire…..out came this calf!}...some would say that 'they overran the Priest or Pastor' or that 'he was weak' IN ANY CASE, THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWING GOD OR MOSES.....so much for THAT GROUP CONSENSUS, and the leadership example...in that situation." Is it always the case....NO. BUT TOO OFTEN IT IS.

Now today, in any group....who is really leading that particular Church? Christ, the Clergy or the people? Is it Theocracy? (God rule), Democracy....people rule...Anarchy....?



The body of Christ is NOT A DEMOCRACY. Giving a person or a group a ‘special’ name or ‘Title’ does not give an ‘authority’ above that of Christ’ nor the ‘consensus’ authority over the Doctrine of Christ.

NOW UNLESS WE READ AND KNOW and BELIEVE WHAT CHRIST SAID….we can be deceived and led astray. If we do not know what He said, or do not understand what we read, or just adapt a 'group consensus...an "I am not personally responsible" attitude....we are very vulnerable to a multitude of ‘private interpretations’ WHETHER IN PRIVATE OR IN GROUPS. We will not be spared answering to Him just because we are in a group AND THE GROUP ENDS UP GETTING JUDGED. I think of this Scripture:

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not PARTAKERS OF HER SINS, AND THAT YE RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities"

I find that very SOBERING.



2 John 1: 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

(Pastors Priests and Teachers and Prophets are Not excluded from this) .They are not THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH OR THE BODY ANYWHERE)
Colossians 1:18 “And HE is the head of THE BODY, THE CHURCH: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEIMINENCE.”

Matthew 23: 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.



.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,


1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time
1 Corinthians 1:10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that YE ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and THAT THERE BE NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are CONTENTIONS among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I AM OF Paul; and I OF Apollos; and I OF Cephas; and I OF Christ. 13 IS CHRIST DIVIDED? ..WAS PAUL CRUCIFIED FOR YOU? …OR WERE YOU BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF PAUL? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL: NOT WITH WISDOM OF WORDS, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Hebrews 8:11Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, WHO IS SET ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE THRONE OF MAJESTY IN THE HEAVENS; 2 A MINISTER OF THE SANCTUARY, AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE, WHICH THE LORD PITCHED, AND NOT MAN. 3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5Who serve UNTO THE EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6But now hath HE HATH OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, BY HOW MUCH ALSO HE IS THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED UPON BETTER PROMISES.

Colossians 2:1For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephesians 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him WHO IS THE HEAD, EVEN CHRIST..”

 

[Mahalialee4]

It doesn't get any better than this Church.



Hebrews 12: 22 "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. "

 

[Mamita]

ok i admit i didn't read everything, but i just had answer to that question i was wondering about myself this morning

here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX66PmlkYoc

in a nutshell yeah we will go through it

 

[Guitarhero]

The Holy Spirit is Our Guide and Comfort; is He not enough? For some, Jesus is their pastor and the example they follow. Is that not good enough? What are those surrounded by apostasy or living in the middle of nowhere supposed to do?

I agree about the Holy Spirit, Nymphe. However, how are any of us exactly sure that we are not being misguided, deceived or emotionally manipulated by our own psyches regarding what is considered truth from the Holy Spirit and that which is not? Faith is a big part of that, as well as scripture and in our case, divine tradition and the writings under the direction and lead of the Holy Spirit. Some might say the latter is wrong. Some might say that it is necessary in order for the former to be known as the true interpretation. This is what I'm getting at. And there are people who will look at both means of interpretation and determine it all untrue. There are those who go by popular opinion of it and others who go by either feeling, total private revelation etc. But how much of private revelation is subjective? Unless it's agreed upon by some kind of consensus within the body of Christ, how will I know for sure that this particular interpretation is the truth according to the leading of the Holy Spirit?

So, if something as "scary" as Revelations is so troubling and a person desires to learn of it, my advice was to seek out where one worshipped, either traditonal church or worship group etc. It can cause great distress to many people and I've witnessed this all throughout the years. I'm not saying that God cannot impress upon me what is truth. But I am saying that sometimes what I had considered His impression later turned out not to be.

 

[Guitarhero]

Group think? I understand perfectly what you are saying, but what can one do when surrounded by errors unseen or ignored by believers at large? Can you understand those who want the Pure Water of His Word and the Unleavened Bread of His Knowledge straight from Him? Why are you having trouble processing this reality? Does it scare you or something?

As for this topic, the key is the last trump and the seventh trumpet being one in the same. Also, Jesus did warn us that we would be persecuted in His name. See John 15:20, Romans 8:35, 2 Timothy 3:12.

Trust nothing of what any man or group says. Don’t even trust your own mind. Ask the Father always.

Apostles = group think. Guided by the Holy Spirit to even write the scriptures. They did so prayerfully. Jesus worshipped alongside others in the synagogue. This is to say that gathering of the faithful is not wrong. Ignoring the Divine is wrong and failing to worship Him, yes. Some choose solitude for that. If I am one-man strong in a battle though, I am only one-man strong. I have no strategist other than myself on how to win the battle. However, if I am surrounded by other believers in a battle, I am more than one-man strong and through one concerted effort, we fight in unison. I worship in church every weekly mass and holy days of obligation because that is what my church teaches me and if I am to be a part of it, I abide in that. Others will worship in group homes in their type of congregating. Still, others go solo. It's not wrong to worship, pray nor study together. It's very much encouraged. Can every person accomplish this? Absolutely not. There are some people who are seriously persecuted for their faith and belief and would face death so they do so, just them. I personally follow what I have been taught for my side. That's all that's being said. There's no reading in between the lines, actually. Most worship in a group and is the norm. However, I'm not claiming superiority. It's just how I fit best.

 

[Guitarhero]

I always respond with questions or Scripture on topics: I am not required to believe you on the matter. Nor are you required to believe me. That is why the Scriptures are posted in response to statements involving Doctrine.

.

This has already been established. Shrug. Why it's necessary to reiterate, I don't know. I don't beat folks on the heads with bibles. I ran from that group long, long ago because I was receiving the blows. Believe me, I was not saying you SHOULD believe what I believe. I simply don't care to proselytize.

 

[taytay86]

Hi Ladies - I hope that you are all here to answer my question as this was orignally posted over one year ago. Most (including myself) believe the mark of the beast will be the microchip implantation in humans. Now, if the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation has already started then what will Christians do? If we are not allowed to buy or sell without the chip, how will we survive? How will our children survive? I watched a lecture where this woman said that even if someone with the chip buys stuff for us without the chip, it will be traced. Meaning then if we are in hiding, they will find us. This is all scary and has me confused. I have this heavy feeling in my heart that the tribulation will be like the Holocaust. If we refuse the chip, we are tortured to death. Why wouldn't God take his humble servants before all of the tribulation?

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Amazing Perry Stone of Manna Fest is doing a teaching on this now

 

[Sharpened]

Hi Ladies - I hope that you are all here to answer my question as this was orignally posted over one year ago. Most (including myself) believe the mark of the beast will be the microchip implantation in humans. Now, if the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation has already started then what will Christians do? If we are not allowed to buy or sell without the chip, how will we survive? How will our children survive? I watched a lecture where this woman said that even if someone with the chip buys stuff for us without the chip, it will be traced. Meaning then if we are in hiding, they will find us. This is all scary and has me confused. I have this heavy feeling in my heart that the tribulation will be like the Holocaust. If we refuse the chip, we are tortured to death. Why wouldn't God take his humble servants before all of the tribulation?

I am too tired to give a detailed answer right now, but it will be like Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers and Joshua combined with the Book of Acts.

Joshua and Caleb were righteous and had to suffer along with the rest of Israel. How many of the Apostles were martyred? Why should we be spared when, at this moment, our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world are being tortured and killed for their faith?

Matthew 10:39 - He that finds his life shall lose it: and he that loses his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 16:25 - For whoever will save his life shall lose it: and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mark 8:35 - For whoever will save his life shall lose it; but whoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Luke 9:24 - For whoever will save his life shall lose it: but whoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Luke 14:26 - If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 17:33 - Whoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

John 12:25 - He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it to life eternal.

Seven times this phrase is repeated for His New Testament, which means (at least for me) "Pay close attention to this!" Jesus told us not to worry about provisions (Matthew 6:25-34, Luke 12:22-33). It took Him a month or two of beating this fact into my head until I got it. I have stopped worrying about it and watch Him do His thing. All glory to Him, always.

 

[blazingthru]

Hi Ladies - I hope that you are all here to answer my question as this was orignally posted over one year ago. Most (including myself) believe the mark of the beast will be the microchip implantation in humans. Now, if the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation has already started then what will Christians do? If we are not allowed to buy or sell without the chip, how will we survive? How will our children survive? I watched a lecture where this woman said that even if someone with the chip buys stuff for us without the chip, it will be traced. Meaning then if we are in hiding, they will find us. This is all scary and has me confused. I have this heavy feeling in my heart that the tribulation will be like the Holocaust. If we refuse the chip, we are tortured to death. Why wouldn't God take his humble servants before all of the tribulation?

Taytay86,
I honestly don't believe that a chip has anything to do with it at all. This is the thing that many Christians do not get, No one is willing to suffer and die just to do it. But for Christ you must be willing to suffer and Die. Whatever it takes to be obedient. We have so many examples behind us of people that gave up their lives for Christ, no matter what they had to endure including being thrown in the lions den, head cut off, cut up, burned, crucified and so on. The buying and selling is not going to affect all Christians only true believers. True believers will not do certain things. Not ever to the point of death.

Now take Nebuchadnezzar for example. He had a certain type of music playing and everyone was to bow down to the statue or face death. Well you know hundreds of Israelites bowed down. but the true believers did not and faced death, they knew it was forbidden to bow down to a Idol of any kind. they refused and knew the consequences and was ready and willing to face the consequences. This is the attitude we who are true believers are to have. As for the chip. I very much doubt if that has anything to do with it. but the mark of the beast described in the scriptures is what you believe in your mind and what you do with your hands. If you believe that drinking is good and right this is something you practice and work at. Same as religion if you believe this false religion and practice it with your hands then you have accepted the mark of the beast, no one can force it on you its something you except. Same as with the seal of God. You believe and you work within that belief, However, you go above and beyond to make sure your falling after the truth and not falsehood. You walk in the light and you willingly sacrifice whatever the world considers good and wonderful you sit and discover the truth of the matter. it really is not that hard or difficult to understand, the world makes it seem so but Christ died and rose again to prove that he has power over death so if you should die you will awake again to something so worth dying for. that is what should be in your heart. that no matter what it takes, you will lay down your life for Christ only to pick it up again. except perhaps when you do, you will receive a crown. This is why the apostle would sing after a beating, they consider it all joy that they were found worthy to suffer for Christ.

 

[InVue]

“Now, if the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation has already started then what will Christians do?”

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: ..." (1 Cor. 15:51-53).

I don’t get caught up in the premillennialist vs. postmillennialism theories.
I believe the return of Christ is as the scripture says a mystery. Therefore it is better to be prepared for the “catching away” at anytime. That said I don’t worry about what Christians will do during the tribulation because I believe this is the time to prepare ourselves. Meaning, fasting, praying, and seeking God for strength to withstand whatever befalls; whenever.

In addition, I can imagine without preparation many professing to know Christ will not be able to stand in such trying times. People can barely lived a successful Christian life now and we are only experiencing an inkling of the depression and discomforts that will occur during tribulation. Imagine what it is going to be like when Satan’s hatred of the saints is unleashed in full force. This world will likely be quite different from the world we are living in today. It will be a world with no conscience.

What are people going to do when their children are crying for food, when their bellies are hungry. What are they going to do when their family and friends turn against them out of fear of retaliation. What are they going to do when they can’t pay their rent or mortgage. What will they do when they’re fired from good paying jobs, their bank account is emptied, and they cannot shop, or access the necessities of life. All this hardship because of their Christian faith. Many undoubtedly, will be easily deceived. That is why I think this is the time to diligently seek God for the power to withstand just in case...

We lived in a unstable time a time of spiritual preparation. God is sending signs all over the place. This is the time to prepare spiritually not to worry about tomorrow...

Mat 24:20 “pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:..For then shall be great tribulation...

 

[makeupgirl]

Hi Ladies - I hope that you are all here to answer my question as this was orignally posted over one year ago. Most (including myself) believe the mark of the beast will be the microchip implantation in humans. Now, if the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation has already started then what will Christians do? If we are not allowed to buy or sell without the chip, how will we survive? How will our children survive? I watched a lecture where this woman said that even if someone with the chip buys stuff for us without the chip, it will be traced. Meaning then if we are in hiding, they will find us. This is all scary and has me confused. I have this heavy feeling in my heart that the tribulation will be like the Holocaust. If we refuse the chip, we are tortured to death. Why wouldn't God take his humble servants before all of the tribulation?

He is taking his church/the body of Christ out of the world before the great tribulation. That's not something that we are suppose to go through. In 2 Thes 2:6-7 speaks of the restrainer that will be removed, then will Satan be allowed to pretty much wreck havoc on the earth, which is God's appointed time for the Antichrist to be revealed. Everything has an appointed time that is permitted by God. This includes the rapture. The rapture can happen anytime now. The 2nd coming of Christ is what takes place after the 7 years of the tribulation is up. The church is coming back with him to reign with him on earth those 1000 years.

Now, there are different stages to the 1st resurrection. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the 1st resurrection" (rev 20:6)

- (the first fruits) Jesus Christ himself was the first one, that paved the way for the resurrection for those who believe in him
- (harvest) the church age (those who are dead in Christ and is living at the time of the rapture) (John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) ... this is before the 7 year tribulation period
- (the gleaning) resurrection of the OT saints (Dan 12:2) and the tribulation saints (Rev 20:4)..this will be after the 7 year tribulation period

1 Corinthians 15:20-24 (KJV)



20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Crown]

He is taking his church/the body of Christ out of the world before the great tribulation. That's not something that we are suppose to go through. In 2 Thes 2:6-7 speaks of the restrainer that will be removed, then will Satan be allowed to pretty much wreck havoc on the earth, which is God's appointed time for the Antichrist to be revealed. Everything has an appointed time that is permitted by God. This includes the rapture. The rapture can happen anytime now. The 2nd coming of Christ is what takes place after the 7 years of the tribulation is up. The church is coming back with him to reign with him on earth those 1000 years.

Now, there are different stages to the 1st resurrection. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the 1st resurrection" (rev 20:6)

- (the first fruits) Jesus Christ himself was the first one, that paved the way for the resurrection for those who believe in him
- (harvest) the church age (those who are dead in Christ and is living at the time of the rapture) (John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) ... this is before the 7 year tribulation period
- (the gleaning) resurrection of the OT saints (Dan 12:2) and the tribulation saints (Rev 20:4)..this will be after the 7 year tribulation period

1 Corinthians 15:20-24 (KJV)



20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Please don't confound the great tribulation with the righteous wrath of the Almighty One. The elect will not suffer the wrath, but be prepared for the great tribulation.

Rev. 6.9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6.10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 6.11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Mat. 24.13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
24.21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 24.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Rev. 7.3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Rev. 13.16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 13.17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Mat. 24.29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24.30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24.35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

[makeupgirl]

Please don't confound the great tribulation with the righteous wrath of the Almighty One. The elect will not suffer the wrath, but be prepared for the great tribulation.

The pre-trib vs. post-trib theory is going to always be debatable (did I even spell that right, lol) but the wrath and the stuff that's going to go down in the great tribulation is not what the church is going to go through because we were not appointed to wrath via 1 Thes 1:10, 1 Thes 5:9.

There were be folks that are going to be saved during that time, which is why they are called the tribulation saints/martyr. From what I've understood from studying is that some will die for their belief. But the church age will be raptured up to meet Christ in the clouds before this happens. The rapture is an imimenent event, so that can occur at any moment. But the 2nd coming of Christ is after the great trib in which we the body will come back with him at that time to reign with him.

While everything is going on here on earth, we will be in heaven being judged at the Judgment seat of Christ and parttaking in the Marriage as the bride of Christ. Meanwhile, after the great trib is when the tribulation saints and the OT saints is going to take part in the marriage supper in which they are the invited guest.

Those left behind during the great tribulation aka Jacob's trouble (not the rock group as I found out, lol) will be those that chosed not to believe in Christ and it's going to be a wrath like no other. What we're going through now here on earth, while we are still here is nothing compare to what is going to go down during that time.

The elect consist of the Israel, church age, the OT saints, and the tribulation saints that will be saved during the great trib. It could be either Israel or the tribulation saints that is spoken about in Matt 24 meaning of the elect. Ultimately, we're all going to be with Christ and that's were the goal should be where we keep our eyes upon.

 

[Crown]

The pre-trib vs. post-trib theory is going to always be debatable (did I even spell that right, lol) but the wrath and the stuff that's going to go down in the great tribulation is not what the church is going to go through because we were not appointed to wrath via 1 Thes 1:10, 1 Thes 5:9.

There were be folks that are going to be saved during that time, which is why they are called the tribulation saints/martyr. From what I've understood from studying is that some will die for their belief. But the church age will be raptured up to meet Christ in the clouds before this happens. The rapture is an imimenent event, so that can occur at any moment. But the 2nd coming of Christ is after the great trib in which we the body will come back with him at that time to reign with him.

While everything is going on here on earth, we will be in heaven being judged at the Judgment seat of Christ and parttaking in the Marriage as the bride of Christ. Meanwhile, after the great trib is when the tribulation saints and the OT saints is going to take part in the marriage supper in which they are the invited guest.

I agree with you : the children of YHWH are not appointed to His holy wrath, the day of the LORD! But, the great tribulation is for all.

Those left behind during the great tribulation aka Jacob's trouble (not the rock group as I found out, lol) will be those that chosed not to believe in Christ and it's going to be a wrath like no other. What we're going through now here on earth, while we are still here is nothing compare to what is going to go down during that time.

This left behind theory will take many by surprise!

The elect consist of the Israel, church age, the OT saints, and the tribulation saints that will be saved during the great trib. It could be either Israel or the tribulation saints that is spoken about in Matt 24 meaning of the elect. Ultimately, we're all going to be with Christ and that's were the goal should be where we keep our eyes upon.

Dear, you are interpreting the scriptures!

Mat. 24.29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24.30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24.35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

[makeupgirl]

I agree with you : the children of YHWH are not appointed to His holy wrath, the day of the LORD! But, the great tribulation is for all.


This left behind theory will take many by surprise!


Dear, you are interpreting the scriptures!

Mat. 24.29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24.30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24.35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I'm not interpreting scriptures (I take that verse at the end of revelation about adding and subtracting from scripture very seriously) and no those who have trusted Christ as their Lord and savior will not go through the great tribulation, which is confirmed in 1 Thes 1:10, 1 Thes 5:9 and also Rev 3:10. Why would anyone want to go through it is beyond my understanding and I find myself constantly asking God this very question.

I will always be a pre-trib person and it's been that day upon believing when first studied in bible study 10 years ago. I don't believe that we will go through the great tribulation based on the scriptures provided and one of the most incorrect assumptions about Matt 24 is that we are going through the great tribulation and that's after the church has been raptured up. Once the rapture happens, then the great tribulation will happen because the restrainer has to be removed first, then the Antichrist will be revealed.

The great tribulation isn't going to be a picnic. We as the body of Christ is going through tribulation and perscuation (sp?), ridicule, etc from the world; which is why Christ said "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33) the tribulation that is called jacobs trouble for the 7 years will be like no other tribulation that has come upon the earth and that is for the those for have rejected Christ time and time again. There will be people that will be saved during this time and it's going to be like a modern day witch trials for them because some will be killed because of their relationship with Christ.

At any rate, we should look for his coming, his appearing..not the tribulation. Also, that's why we should continue to be about our Father's business and spreading the gospel of Christ so that more people can experience that unspeakable joy that comes from knowing, believing, and trusting Christ. It's the best relationship that anyone is going to have because it's eternal between the person and Jesus Christ.

BTW...I look forward to meeting you ladies in Heaven. We going to have a ball. I hope the Lord's coming is soon because I'm tired of sticking myself daily because of these diabetes and the horrible endometrosis pain.

 

[Renewed1]

Forgive my ignorance....but the answer is NO...right?

 

[blazingthru]

the Answer is Yes, Christian will go through the tribulation.
2 Timothy 3:12

12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


yes all Christians will go through the tribulation. We must endure to the very end.
Matthew 7:24-27

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. The storm comes to us all.


I would like to discuss the 7 year period because no where in scriputure is that found. but I have a ideal where it came from and how it was misinterpreted.
Daniel 9:24

King James Version (KJV)


24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy or 490 years out of the 2,300.00 Seventy weeks were to be "determined upon," or cut off, for the Jews. The seventy prophetic weeks equal 490 literal years (70 x 7 = 490). God's people would soon be returning from captivity in Medo-Persia, and God would cut off 490 years from the 2,300 years and allot them to His chosen people as another opportunity to repent and serve Him.


I will take the rest from a bible study I took this study three years ago and posted this information then.

Daniel 9:25 when does the starting point begin?
The starting event was a decree from Persian King Artaxerxes authorizing God's people (who were captive in Medo-Persia) to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. The decree, found in Ezra chapter 7, was issued in 457 B.C.--the seventh year of the king (verse 7)--and was implemented in the autumn. Artaxerxes began his reign in 464 B.C.

483 full years from the fall of 457 B.C. reaches the fall of A.D. 27. The word "Messiah" means "anointed" (John 1:41). Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost (Acts 10:38) at His baptism (Luke 3:21, 22). His anointing took place in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (Luke 3:1), which was A.D. 27. And to think the prediction was made more than 500 years before!

Then Jesus began to preach that "the time is fulfilled" (referring to the 483 years which were to reach to the Messiah). He thus audibly confirmed the prophecy (Mark 1:14, 15; Galatians 4:4). So Jesus actually began His ministry by clearly referring to the 2,300-day prophecy, stressing its importance and accuracy
We have now considered 483 years of the 490-year prophecy. There is one prophetic week, or seven literal years, left (Daniel 9:26, 27). What happens next? When does it happen?

Jesus is "cut off" or crucified "in the midst of the week," which is three and one-half years after His anointing--or the spring of A.D. 31. Please notice how the gospel is revealed in verse 26: "After threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself."

No, praise God, when Jesus was cut off, it was not for Himself. He "who did no sin" (1 Peter 2:22) was crucified for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; Isaiah 53:5). Jesus' priceless life was lovingly and willingly offered to save us from sin. Hallelujah, what a Saviour! Jesus' atoning sacrifice is the very heart of Daniel chapters 8 and 9. The covenant is His blessed agreement to save people from their sins (Hebrews 10:16, 17). After His ministry of three and one-half years ended, Jesus confirmed the covenant through His disciples (Hebrews 2:3). He sent them first to the Jewish nation (Matthew 10:5, 6), because His chosen people still had three and one-half years remaining of their 490-year opportunity to repent. There are three and a half years remainig. Jesus sent the disicples out to the Jewish nation first, that ended with the stoning of Stephen which was exactly 3.5 years after Christ death.
That is where the 7 years went, not to the tribulation.
They began preaching the gospel to other people and nations of the world (Acts 13:46). Stephen, a righteous deacon, was publicly stoned in A.D. 34. From that date onward the Jews, because they rejected Jesus and God's plan, were no longer God's chosen people or nation. Instead, God now counts people of all nationalities who accept and serve Him as spiritual Jews. They have become His chosen people--"heirs according to the promise." Spiritual Jews do, of course, include Jewish people who individually accept and serve Jesus (Galatians 3:27-29; Romans 2:28, 29).

The stages of resurrection where is that found? there are two resurrections. The first is resurrection to life. The second resurrection is to death.

to discuss more on the 1,000.00 year period. I think this is also misinterpreted as well.


The fact that when Jesus parts the clouds thats it. At that point judgement has already been determine actually before tribulation starts it has been determine. No one will be saved during tribulation.
Revelation 22:11-12

King James Version (KJV)



11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. it is already decided before Jesus comes.


No one can be saved without the holy spirit and God has said that the Holy Spirit would not strive long with man.
so we are getting more rain, more storms, earthquakes warning signs. Turn your life over to Christ while its called today. he has been sending wake up calls everyday now.

 

[makeupgirl]

This is the explanation of the 7 year tribulation time. aka Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation aka literal hell on earth.

This is from got questions http://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation.html

Question: "What is the Tribulation? How do we know the Tribulation will last seven years?"

Answer: The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7).

An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice. Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

Also rapture ready has some articles regarding the rapture and lots of info that is in alignment with scripture regarding the end times.

 

[aribell]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but while Christians aren't appointed to God's wrath, Satan himself does and will make war against the saints. The tribulation of the end times is also about the temporary rise of Satan and his exercise of power. He will attack the Church and Christians will suffer greatly. If we refuse to accept that, we won't be prepared to be killed for upholding the name of Jesus and we'll buckle.

We have to be willing and prepared to suffer.

Sent from my LS670 using LS670

 

[makeupgirl]

There are different series of the 1st resurrection.

1) Jesus' resurrection (his resurrection is the first fruits for the believers)
2) the church age (the body/bride of Christ)
3) OT saints
4) Tribulation saints (those who are saved during the great tribulation)

another article with scriptures from got questions

Question: "When will the Resurrection take place?"

Answer: The Bible is clear that resurrection is a reality and this life is not all that there is. While death is the end of physical life, it is not the end of human existence. Many erroneously believe that there is one general resurrection at the end of the age, but the Bible teaches that there will be not one resurrection, but a series of resurrections, some to eternal life in heaven and some to eternal damnation (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29).

The first great resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is documented in each of the four Gospels (Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20), cited several times in Acts (Acts 1:22; 2:31; 4:2, 33; 26:23), and mentioned repeatedly in the letters to the churches (Romans 1:4; Philippians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:3). Much is made of the importance of Christ’s resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:12-34, which records that over five hundred people saw Him at one of His post-resurrection appearances. Christ’s resurrection is the “first fruits” or guarantee to every Christian that he will also be resurrected. Christ’s resurrection is also the basis of the Christian’s certainty that all people who have died will one day be raised to face fair and even-handed judgment by Jesus Christ (Acts 17:30-31). The resurrection to eternal life is described as “the first resurrection” (Revelation 20:5-6); the resurrection to judgment and torment is described as “the second death” (Revelation 20:6, 13-15).

The first great resurrection of the Church will occur at the time of the rapture. All those who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ during the Church Age, and have died before Jesus returns, will be resurrected at the rapture. The Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost and will end when Christ returns to take believers back to heaven with Him (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The Apostle Paul explained that not all Christians will die, but all will be changed, i.e., given resurrection-type bodies (1 Corinthians 15:50-58), some without having to die! Christians who are alive, and those who have already died, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and be with Him always!

Another great resurrection will occur when Christ returns to earth (His Second Coming) at the end of the Tribulation period. After the rapture, the Tribulation is the next event after the Church Age in God’s chronology. This will be a time of terrible judgment upon the world, described in great detail in Revelation chapters 6-18. Though all Church Age believers will be gone, millions of people left behind on earth will come to their senses during this time and will trust in Jesus as their Savior. Tragically, most of them will pay for their faith in Jesus by losing their lives (Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 13:7, 15-17; 17:6; 19:1-2). These believers in Jesus who die during the Tribulation will be resurrected at Christ’s return and will reign with Him for a thousand years during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4, 6). Old Testament believers such as Job, Noah, Abraham, David and even John the Baptist (who was assassinated before the Church began) will be resurrected at this time also. Several passages in the Old Testament mention this event (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:1-2; Hosea 13:14). Ezekiel 37:1-14 describes primarily the regathering of the Nation of Israel using the symbolism of dead corpses coming back to life. But from the language used, a physical resurrection of dead Israelis cannot be excluded from the passage. Again, all believers in God (in the Old Testament era) and all believers in Jesus (in the New Testament era) participate in the first resurrection, a resurrection to life (Revelation 20:4, 6).

There may be another resurrection at the end of the Millennium, one which is implied, but never explicitly stated in Scripture. It is possible that some believers will die a physical death during the Millennium. Through the prophet Isaiah, God said, "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days; for the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed” (Isaiah 65:20). On the other hand, it is also possible that death in the Millennium will only come to the disobedient. In either event, some kind of transformation will be required to fit believers in their natural bodies in the Millennium for pristine existence throughout eternity. Each believer will need to have a “resurrected” type of body.

It is clear from Scripture that God will destroy the entire universe, including the earth, with fire (2 Peter 3:7-12). This will be necessary to purge God’s creation of its endemic evil and decay brought upon it by man’s sin. In its place God will create a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-4). But what will happen to those believers who survived the Tribulation and entered the Millennium in their natural bodies? And what will happen to those who were born during the Millennium, trusted in Jesus, and continued to live in their natural bodies? Paul has made it clear that flesh and blood, which is mortal and able to decay, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That eternal kingdom is inhabitable only by those with resurrected, glorified bodies that are no longer mortal and are not able to decay (1 Corinthians 15:35-49). Presumably, these believers will be given resurrection bodies without having to die. Precisely when this happens is not explained, but theologically, it must happen somewhere in the transition from the old earth and universe to the new earth and new heaven (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-4).

There is a final resurrection, apparently of all the unbelieving dead of all ages. Jesus Christ will raise them from the dead (John 5:25-29) after the Millennium, the thousand-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:5), and after the destruction of the present earth and universe (2 Peter 3:7-12; Revelation 20:11). This is the resurrection described by Daniel as an awakening “from the dust of the ground ... to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). It is described by Jesus as a “resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).

 

[makeupgirl]

cont'

The Apostle John saw something that would happen in the future. He saw a “great white throne” (Revelation 20:11). Heaven and earth “fled away” from the One sitting on it. This is evidently a description of the dissolution by fire of all matter, including the entire universe and earth itself (2 Peter 3:7-12). All the (godless) dead will stand before the throne. This means they have been resurrected after the thousand years (Revelation 20:5). They will possess bodies that can feel pain but will never cease to exist (Mark 9:43-48). They will be judged, and their punishment will be commensurate with their works. But there is another book opened—the Lamb’s book of life (Revelation 21:27). Those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the “lake of fire,” which amounts to “the second death” (Revelation 20:11-15). No indication is given of any who appear at this judgment that their names are found in the book of life. Rather, those whose names appear in the book of life were among those who are blessed, for they received forgiveness and partook of the first resurrection, the resurrection to life (Revelation 20:6).

http://www.gotquestions.org/when-resurrection.html

Question: "What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?"

Answer: Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Everyone will be raised from the dead, but not everyone will share the same destiny. The New Testament reveals the further detail of separate resurrections for the just and the unjust.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The event which divides the first and second resurrections seems to be the millennial kingdom. The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5).

What great rejoicing will attend the first resurrection! What great anguish at the second! What a responsibility we have to share the Gospel! “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire” (Jude 23).

http://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-first-second.html

Got questions explains it a lot better than I can but I didn't solely go on gotquestions to get the info but I prayed to the Holy Spirit for the understanding of the scripture and was led to gotquestions along with other sites while studying and researching.

Post trib vs Pre trib are always going to be in disagreement. I guess that's just the way it is but I've just learned to agree to disagree and look towards the goal of knowing that we're all going to meet Jesus face to face as brothers and sisters in Christ.