Per the bolded: any bible scripture to substantiate this?
Wait on the Lord and Baptism of the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter chicacanella
- Start date
Per the bolded: any bible scripture to substantiate this?
chicacanella
New Member
Ephesians 1:13-14 (New International Version)
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
Good start.... in part... but how is this seal evidenced? How will/does the Lord know who we are? Yes, I know the Lord is sovereign and omnicient.... And yet it is His pattern to have a SIGN... what is the sign of that seal?
***I'm asking these probing questions in a non-confrontational tone to provoke thought***
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
But in light of baptism that requires the Holy Spirit? Pentecost in Acts refers to the birth of the Church. As far as those past Pentecost speaing tongues, I'm wondering that if the Catholic Church/Orthodox Church (east and west) call it something else? If they, at all, distinguish it in the individual's life and not just refer to it as that one-time event in man's history? I don't truy "buy" the rapture and have been taught that the bible is literal and allegorical.
I had to chuckle. You reminded me of something my kids said once. Jesus wasn't a christian lol. No
, course not, regarding rejection. G-d has made His Covenant with Jews for all eternity. In fact, He commanded that the "Law" be followed always. Deut. 11:1
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
You know, if you don't ask, you'll never know how anyone else views things. Thank you. I'm going to be asking some folks about this over in the catholic realm. I'll be printing them out (without names, of course) so I can get them as you all have explained them. Thanks.
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
So, are you saying that sign if speaking in tongues? Would He not know His own through their works??? Don't laught...perhaps the sign of the cross on the forehead??? I'm laughing at my own self right now.
REMIX: Baptism itself as the new sign?
BTW, the real intelligent discussions seem to be over here!!! Substantiated discussions.
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chicacanella
New Member
I believe the fruit of the holy spirit is a sign BUT I do believe in many Christians, the holy spirit can be stiffled.
Galatians 5:6-18, 22-25 (Fruit of the holy spirit)
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
We are to be led by the holy spirit and if we are, his fruits should show in us. Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits." That is one of the things I believes God looks at to see if we have truly served him or not. I believe that some Christians can be covered by the blood but in the department of fruit, they may be lacking.
Definitely not our works... for who can know if one's works are out of faith or out of some secular humanism or universalism or anything other than the Lord Jesus Christ?
2 Timothy 1:9: (Amplified)
[For it is He] Who delivered and saved us and called us with a calling in itself holy and leading to holiness [to a life of consecration, a vocation of holiness]; [He did it] not because of anything of merit that we have done, but because of and to further His own purpose and grace (unmerited favor) which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago].
Titus 3:4-6 (Amplified)
But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared, He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.
The fruit of the spirit is a sign of exactly what? That the Holy Spirit is exists? Or is the fruit of the spirit a MANIFESTATION? Hmm... maybe that's the better question:
How does the Holy Spirit manifest Himself in the believer? What specific instances? How does the Holy Spirit reside within the believer on a continual basis?
Bottom line: we can't do ANY of the things that the Bible compels us to do WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Yes, the fruit of the Spirit, so on and so forth. These are codes of conduct for the believer.
But what is the specific evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, manifestation?
MonaRae
Well-Known Member
Agape Love; for God is Love!
Ms.Honey
New Member
But in light of baptism that requires the Holy Spirit? Pentecost in Acts refers to the birth of the Church. As far as those past Pentecost speaing tongues, I'm wondering that if the Catholic Church/Orthodox Church (east and west) call it something else? If they, at all, distinguish it in the individual's life and not just refer to it as that one-time event in man's history? I don't truy "buy" the rapture and have been taught that the bible is literal and allegorical.
I had to chuckle. You reminded me of something my kids said once. Jesus wasn't a christian lol. No
Water baptism is an outward sign of an inner grace. It's a sign to the world that you've made your allegiance with Christ. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is an empowerment promised by Jesus to all generations, not ending with the early church. The book of Acts speaks of people receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit past Pentacost, you have to read the WHOLE book of Acts.
All Israel is not of the promise. He speaks of who specifically is Israel. He said all in Israel is not of Israel (Rom. 9:6) and Abraham had many sons not just Ishmael and Issac, but not all will be blessed in the same way. He speaks of who is Israel," Your mother is a Hittite(black woman) and your father is an Amorite (Eze. 16)
Yes, this is true. This is how THE WORLD will know us: by our love. ETA: I suppose not only the world, but everyone in the world, fellow believers and everybody else).
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (St. John 13:35, KJV).
34-35"Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples—when they see the love you have for each other." (The Message)
We demonstrate agape love by our conduct (not (necessarily) by our works) but in how we behave and treat others.
And yet the Holy Spirit has a specific purpose and function for each and every believer. What is that sign, that evidence that is accessible to EVERY BELIEVER? (Acts 2:38-29).
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Ms.Honey
New Member
I have not physically sinned since day I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost on Pentacost Sunday 1997. The Baptism enabled me to keep His commandments.
Eze.36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10
For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Jer 31:31
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Jer 31:32
not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Jer 31:34
"They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Jer 31:35
Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
Jer 31:36
"If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever."
Jer 31:37
Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD.
Jer 31:38
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
Jer 31:39
"The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.
Jer 31:40
"And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever."
Eze.36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10
For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Jer 31:31
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Jer 31:32
not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Jer 31:34
"They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Jer 31:35
Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
Jer 31:36
"If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever."
Jer 31:37
Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD.
Jer 31:38
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
Jer 31:39
"The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.
Jer 31:40
"And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever."
Ms.Honey
New Member
Speaking in Tongues is that sign.
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
I was talking about physical Israel and Jews (not gentiles grafted in) and the Covenant which is still into play. According to older christian tradition, there is no salvation without baptism. Either way, I don't see where there is a difference...you get baptised and are born into the family of G-d as a christian...and the HOly Spirit now lives within you. The Divine Presence. Whether or not one speaks in tongues...the Holy Spirit is still living within the person. You don't get a smidgeon of G-d, you get the whole shebang. I mean to say that speaking in tongues doesn't make one more christian or serious about one's christian walk with Christ.
When you say that speaking in tongues is that sign...do you mean salvation???
Ms.Honey
New Member
Did someone actually say that in this thread? I don't recall that. Tongues is a sign that you have received the Baptism.
Some folks tradition may say that but the bible does not say that you need to be baptized with water or receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to go to heaven or to receive salvation. What it does say is the Baptism stregthens us to keep His commandments among other things.
chicacanella
New Member
Hmmm, for me it would have been yesterday. When I prayed and the atmosphere became thick with the prescence of God so much that me and the yound man I witnessed to were weak. He felt it, I felt it...it was no halluciantion but the real thing. The power of God.
BUT just because the holy spirit flows through me like this doesn't mean that when every Christian prays, the same thing will happen. This is the first time it happened to me and I have been saved for some time now but the power was stiffled because of the life I lived. This is why I don't want to say there is any "specific" evidence because one could be a Christian and have it yet, not get the same results I do. It doesn't mean that the holy spirit is not indwelling in them though.
But as I read your second to last comment, I think you answered the question yourself.
"Bottom line: we can't do ANY of the things that the Bible compels us to do WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Yes, the fruit of the Spirit, so on and so forth. These are codes of conduct for the believer."
So, to the last question: But what is the specific evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, manifestation?
I believe the your quote is indeed is one of the ways the holy spirit manifests itself in a believer.
Catch you later.
chicacanella
New Member
goign to bed.
firecracker
Well-Known Member
When did tongues start being a sign of recieving Baptism? The last paragrah is true. Gossiping and wishing bad on others that we don't agree with is a sin also.
firecracker
Well-Known Member
I question folks that can leap into the speaking of tongues in 2n2 (Ms Covan comes to mind) and someone that says while in worship when they sing ole skool hymns things like they don't have enough room for me in this space.That's why I said some folks getting emotional and letting go also. Some folks get caught up being in His presence and will breakdown crying, fall to their knees etc. but some of it is just folks acting the foolBUT it is controllable. The Holy Spirit isn't making folks run laps around the sanctuary
Those two folks like to show out and fake the funk.What you've shared about being divinely led by the Holy Spirit to minister to others and personal devotional time are absolutely included in the ways and means by which we interact and have such awesome encounters with and through the Holy Spirit. Wonderful! But those instances are just that: encounters. I call for and challenge us go beyond encounters to seek and have RELATIONSHIP with the LORD JESUS CHRIST through the Holy Spirit, starting with that speaking that heavenly language unto the Lord.
I believe that the fundamental, basic, core purpose and function of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer is to, as Ms. Honey said, to empower the Christian to do and have those things that you mentioned.
St. John 14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
St. John 15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
I STRONGLY ADVOCATE for speaking in tongues because of what the scriptures say (cited upthread) and because of WHO and what the Holy Spirit means to me. I don't think we should "cop out" the Holy Spirit by simplifying such encounters to a "it doesn't happen the same for everybody" and to use that to justify that every believer should not DESIRE, EXPECT and RECEIVE this PROMISE from the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
I question folks that can leap into the speaking of tongues in 2n2 (Ms Covan comes to mind) and someone that says while in worship when they sing ole skool hymns things like they don't have enough room for me in this space.
What's 2n2?
I can speak in tongues at will. But do I do it if I'm standing in line at the MAC counter?
For several reasons, amongst them listed in scriptures cited upthread, e.g., because people don't understand your heavenly language and therefore isn't as edifying. But have there been times when I have been very TICKED OFF and I need to calm down, I will speak in my heavenly language under my breath to maintain my composure/to hold myself together.I don't play with the Holy Spirit. I do my best to respect the sacred and holy presence of the Holy Spirit and the things of the Holy Spirit.
Very well stated. I really could not have said it better. My pastor truly has this anointing. I want this too. I want God's power to touch people, to move people. I went into a local restaurant and the owner said that my pastor had been in there a few days earlier. He was delighted by my pastor (pastor is very charismatic). The owner said that when the pastor left the store, business had picked up like it never had before. He associated that with my pastor. He gets this reaction wherever he goes.
@chicanella: I was reading your thread where you brought someone to Jesus. I want to be able to do that too. Whenever I have the opportunity, the words fail me. I suppose I'm just not ready yet.
In the meantime I'll do it through my example.
Ms.Honey
New Member
Tongues is a sign that you have received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost not water baptism. They are two totally different things.
I question folks that can leap into the speaking of tongues in 2n2 (Ms Covan comes to mind) and someone that says while in worship when they sing ole skool hymns things like they don't have enough room for me in this space.
Christians who speak in tongues can speak in tongues whenever they choose. It is a gift of God to be used to speak privately with Him. I have know idea of what you're talking about with the rest of your statement.
chicacanella
New Member
What you've shared about being divinely led by the Holy Spirit to minister to others and personal devotional time are absolutely included in the ways and means by which we interact and have such awesome encounters with and through the Holy Spirit. Wonderful! But those instances are just that: encounters. I call for and challenge us go beyond encounters to seek and have RELATIONSHIP with the LORD JESUS CHRIST through the Holy Spirit, starting with that speaking that heavenly language unto the Lord.
Humbly, I say that because I have been seeking God I believe that he is going to baptize me in his holy spirit but I
can’t speak in tongues until God decides that He will baptize me in his holy spirit. The only thing I can do is continue to do what I am doing and lean not to my own understanding but know that God works in His own time and when he is ready, it will happen.
I do as he tells me to do and have been growing and continuing to tarry for baptism of the holy spirit and I truly with all my heart believe that this encounter would not have happened if I hadn’t been worshipping, praying, reading my bible, etc. I didn't seek the encounter, the holy spirit led me to witness. When I saw the young man, I said, "It's no coincidence that we met today," but I didn't think that God was going to use me to bring him into his kingdom that very day. I had no idea...I wasn't going around thinking, "Hmmmm, let me see how I am going to have an encounter with the holy spirit." It happened because through faith, I listened, believed and was led to show him love first and foremost. Then as I did, this the holy spirit used me to speak in other ways, speaking God's Word many times without the young man even knowing it.
I believe that the fundamental, basic, core purpose and function of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer is to, as Ms. Honey said, to empower the Christian to do and have those things that you mentioned.
I am glad you are asking these questions and I am searching, praying to God for discernment to any answers I find. Even though every believer has the holy spirit, it doesn’t mean that they will follow his guidance as they should. Many times, continuous sin in a person’s life stifles the holy spirit. Ephesians 4:30 This is one of the reasons all Christians do not demonstrate the power/gifts that he wishes them to have and a reason I do not advocate any type of sin because I know that it not only hurts the person, but the body of Christ, the world, and most importantly isn’t pleasing to God, His son and holy spirit.
This quote perfectly describes what I have been thinking:
Purpose of the Baptism in the Spirit
The purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is manifold. He is poured out so that all the 13 works and purposes of the Holy Spirit mentioned above might be. The Holy Spirit of course will be wanting to do these things in every believer, not just those actually baptised in the Spirit. But these things are much more easily and naturally realised in those who have been baptised in the Spirit and speak in tongues. To achieve His purposes in the believer's life, the Holy Spirit usually requires the voluntary submission of the believer. We must trust God's Spirit to lead us in our battle with the world, the flesh and the devil.
In short, the purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is that men and women will become not only children of God, but children of God like Jesus the Son of God in nature, holiness and power. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit gives us the same possibilities of relationship to the Father and power ministry as Jesus had in His earthly ministry. God wants us to move into these possibilities. The Scriptures make this intention of God clear to us in Scriptures such as John 14:12 and John 17:22. God does not expect us to do the works of Jesus and to be holy as He is holy without having available to us the same measure of the Holy Spirit as Jesus had. But like Jesus, we need to be completely dependent as submissive to the Holy Spirit if we want His purposes in and through us to be fully accomplished. For the baptism in the Spirit is no substitute for the day-by-day choices the believer must make to keep submitting to the revealed will of God.
The main purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in this life then is to give us more power to demonstrate Christ and win people to Him, so that they can be saved. (Acts 1:8). All other things being equal, the believer baptised in the Spirit will have more success in preaching the gospel, because the Holy Spirit is freer to work through him. The Holy Spirit has many ways to convince people. The Holy Spirit gives us power to heal the sick and cast out demons (Mark 16:17,18) so that people can see and know that Jesus is alive and that his salvation is real and makes a difference. It is much easier to lead people to Christ after they have been healed through Christ's power by the laying on of hands of the Spirit-filled believer, for example. With the Holy Spirit working through many believers, there are actually greater possibilities for the effective proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom that there were in the days of Jesus' earthly ministry. The Baptism in the Spirit therefore is an essential ingredient in the plan of God to multiply Jesus' earthly ministry of preaching, healing and casting out demons so that He can touch the whole world with its billions of people.
http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/baptism-in-the-Holy-Spirit
I STRONGLY ADVOCATE for speaking in tongues because of what the scriptures say (cited upthread) and because of WHO and what the Holy Spirit means to me. I don't think we should "cop out" the Holy Spirit by simplifying such encounters to a "it doesn't happen the same for everybody" and to use that to justify that every believer should not DESIRE, EXPECT and RECEIVE this PROMISE from the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
When I say that some Christians don't have these encounters, I'm not trying to use this as a cop out. I am saying that just because they may not have had the power of the holy spirit flowing though them as I did the other day, does not mean that they don't have the seal of the holy spirit nor did I want anyone reading to be led to think that. I believe that by seeking God, obeyin his Word will strengthen them and pray that all of us in the body of Christ do this.
In the bible, it talks about how God will reward each according to what he has done. When we refer this scripture to Christians, I believe that not everyone will receive the same things from God even though they are saved by the blood and have the indwelling of the holy spirit. In no way am I saying they shouldn't have it, because I believe it is crucial to completely walking in His will which also includes His work that he has assigened to each of us.
Your comments in black, mine in purple and third-party commentary in blue.
Humbly, I say that because I have been seeking God I believe that he is going to baptize me in his holy spirit but I
can’t speak in tongues until God decides that He will baptize me in his holy spirit. The only thing I can do is continue to do what I am doing and lean not to my own understanding but know that God works in His own time and when he is ready, it will happen.
I do as he tells me to do and have been growing and continuing to tarry for baptism of the holy spirit and I truly with all my heart believe that this encounter would not have happened if I hadn’t been worshipping, praying, reading my bible, etc. I didn't seek the encounter, the holy spirit led me to witness. When I saw the young man, I said, "It's no coincidence that we met today," but I didn't think that God was going to use me to bring him into his kingdom that very day. I had no idea...I wasn't going around thinking, "Hmmmm, let me see how I am going to have an encounter with the holy spirit." It happened because through faith, I listened, believed and was led to show him love first and foremost. Then as I did, this the holy spirit used me to speak in other ways, speaking God's Word many times without the young man even knowing it.
I believe that the fundamental, basic, core purpose and function of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer is to, as Ms. Honey said, to empower the Christian to do and have those things that you mentioned.
I am glad you are asking these questions and I am searching, praying to God for discernment to any answers I find. Even though every believer has the holy spirit, it doesn’t mean that they will follow his guidance as they should. Many times, continuous sin in a person’s life stifles the holy spirit. Ephesians 4:30 This is one of the reasons all Christians do not demonstrate the power/gifts that he wishes them to have and a reason I do not advocate any type of sin because I know that it not only hurts the person, but the body of Christ, the world, and most importantly isn’t pleasing to God, His son and holy spirit.
This quote perfectly describes what I have been thinking:
Purpose of the Baptism in the Spirit
The purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is manifold. He is poured out so that all the 13 works and purposes of the Holy Spirit mentioned above might be. The Holy Spirit of course will be wanting to do these things in every believer, not just those actually baptised in the Spirit. But these things are much more easily and naturally realised in those who have been baptised in the Spirit and speak in tongues. To achieve His purposes in the believer's life, the Holy Spirit usually requires the voluntary submission of the believer. We must trust God's Spirit to lead us in our battle with the world, the flesh and the devil.
In short, the purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is that men and women will become not only children of God, but children of God like Jesus the Son of God in nature, holiness and power. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit gives us the same possibilities of relationship to the Father and power ministry as Jesus had in His earthly ministry. God wants us to move into these possibilities. The Scriptures make this intention of God clear to us in Scriptures such as John 14:12 and John 17:22. God does not expect us to do the works of Jesus and to be holy as He is holy without having available to us the same measure of the Holy Spirit as Jesus had. But like Jesus, we need to be completely dependent as submissive to the Holy Spirit if we want His purposes in and through us to be fully accomplished. For the baptism in the Spirit is no substitute for the day-by-day choices the believer must make to keep submitting to the revealed will of God.
The main purpose of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in this life then is to give us more power to demonstrate Christ and win people to Him, so that they can be saved. (Acts 1:8). All other things being equal, the believer baptised in the Spirit will have more success in preaching the gospel, because the Holy Spirit is freer to work through him. The Holy Spirit has many ways to convince people. The Holy Spirit gives us power to heal the sick and cast out demons (Mark 16:17,18) so that people can see and know that Jesus is alive and that his salvation is real and makes a difference. It is much easier to lead people to Christ after they have been healed through Christ's power by the laying on of hands of the Spirit-filled believer, for example. With the Holy Spirit working through many believers, there are actually greater possibilities for the effective proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom that there were in the days of Jesus' earthly ministry. The Baptism in the Spirit therefore is an essential ingredient in the plan of God to multiply Jesus' earthly ministry of preaching, healing and casting out demons so that He can touch the whole world with its billions of people.
http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/baptism-in-the-Holy-Spirit
I STRONGLY ADVOCATE for speaking in tongues because of what the scriptures say (cited upthread) and because of WHO and what the Holy Spirit means to me. I don't think we should "cop out" the Holy Spirit by simplifying such encounters to a "it doesn't happen the same for everybody" and to use that to justify that every believer should not DESIRE, EXPECT and RECEIVE this PROMISE from the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
When I say that some Christians don't have these encounters, I'm not trying to use this as a cop out. I am saying that just because they may not have had the power of the holy spirit flowing though them as I did the other day, does not mean that they don't have the seal of the holy spirit nor did I want anyone reading to be led to think that. I believe that by seeking God, obeyin his Word will strengthen them and pray that all of us in the body of Christ do this.
In the bible, it talks about how God will reward each according to what he has done. When we refer this scripture to Christians, I believe that not everyone will receive the same things from God even though they are saved by the blood and have the indwelling of the holy spirit. In no way am I saying they shouldn't have it, because I believe it is crucial to completely walking in His will which also includes His work that he has assigened to each of us.
Your comments in black, mine in purple and third-party commentary in blue.
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chicacanella
New Member
Only when I began to seek God, began to pray and ask him for the baptism of the holy spirit have I ever witnessed and experienced such glorious power that didn't come from another Christian praying for me, but instead this time it was flowing through me. This is how I feel that even though some Christians are covered by the blood and have the holy spirit, some of their works built on Christ who is the foundation are faulty and will be tested by fire. This doesn't mean that because they don't perform the works that I do that they do not have the holy spirit but we each will be rewarded according to what we have done. And personally, I don't want to scare anyone but when I read this verse I pray that many in the body of Christ stops abusing the grace of God because I do believe that those who continue in this behavior risk losing their salvation. I know many say this isn’t possible but I believe it is. I believe if someone begins to serve God in the beginning and are a true Christian but then turn back to their old ways that start not only living in the world, but becoming of the world that their salvation can be at risk. This is why I do not want to play around or abuse God’s grace cause as His Word says, he will not be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. I believe it is up to each of us to sincerely do our best, be led by the holy spirit and not habitually sin just because we know that we are forgiven by God and saved by his grace and having faith enough to believe. http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Lose-Your-Salvation.html
1 Corinthians 3:10-16 (Contemporary English Version)
Only One Foundation
10God was kind and let me become an expert builder. I laid a foundation on which others have built. But we must each be careful how we build, 11because Christ is the only foundation. 12-13Whatever we build on that foundation will be tested by fire on the day of judgment. Then everyone will find out if we have used gold, silver, and precious stones, or wood, hay, and straw. 14We will be rewarded if our building is left standing. 15But if it is destroyed by the fire, we will lose everything. Yet we ourselves will be saved, like someone escaping from flames.
16All of you surely know that you are God's temple and that his Spirit lives in you.
I would pray and hope that everyone seeks God first and through this seeking receives the baptism of the holy spirit upon asking so that through the gathering of souls brought into the His kingdom, he would be glorified. Yet, I know this is not true. Again, that was what I was trying to explain why everyone who is a Christian and has the holy spirit may not experience what I did and didn't want to believe that they didn't have him. I encourage everyone to seek God and the gifts and power he has for them. This is why I made the thread encouraging my fellow Christians sisters who haven't worshipped God in their own home, by themselves to start. I believe that we can live a righteous life before God, so that he will accept our worship. Some may believe that he accepts all worship yet God said that obedience is better than sacraficing. Obedience is a form of worship, yet also singing, praising and lifting our hands is also a form of worshipping God. And for me, I learned this act really brings me closer to him.
What's 2n2?
I can speak in tongues at will. But do I do it if I'm standing in line at the MAC counter? For several reasons, amongst them listed in scriptures cited upthread, e.g., because people don't understand your heavenly language and therefore isn't as edifying. But have there been times when I have been very TICKED OFF and I need to calm down, I will speak in my heavenly language under my breath to maintain my composure/to hold myself together.
I don't play with the Holy Spirit. I do my best to respect the sacred and holy presence of the Holy Spirit and the things of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you all for fellowshipping with me as this thread has truly been a blessing. You guys are helping to strengthen me and I believe this information will be of good use one day when explaining to someone. Let's keep the dialogue rolling!
1 Corinthians 3:10-16 (Contemporary English Version)
Only One Foundation
10God was kind and let me become an expert builder. I laid a foundation on which others have built. But we must each be careful how we build, 11because Christ is the only foundation. 12-13Whatever we build on that foundation will be tested by fire on the day of judgment. Then everyone will find out if we have used gold, silver, and precious stones, or wood, hay, and straw. 14We will be rewarded if our building is left standing. 15But if it is destroyed by the fire, we will lose everything. Yet we ourselves will be saved, like someone escaping from flames.
16All of you surely know that you are God's temple and that his Spirit lives in you.
I would pray and hope that everyone seeks God first and through this seeking receives the baptism of the holy spirit upon asking so that through the gathering of souls brought into the His kingdom, he would be glorified. Yet, I know this is not true. Again, that was what I was trying to explain why everyone who is a Christian and has the holy spirit may not experience what I did and didn't want to believe that they didn't have him. I encourage everyone to seek God and the gifts and power he has for them. This is why I made the thread encouraging my fellow Christians sisters who haven't worshipped God in their own home, by themselves to start. I believe that we can live a righteous life before God, so that he will accept our worship. Some may believe that he accepts all worship yet God said that obedience is better than sacraficing. Obedience is a form of worship, yet also singing, praising and lifting our hands is also a form of worshipping God. And for me, I learned this act really brings me closer to him.
What's 2n2?
I can speak in tongues at will. But do I do it if I'm standing in line at the MAC counter? For several reasons, amongst them listed in scriptures cited upthread, e.g., because people don't understand your heavenly language and therefore isn't as edifying. But have there been times when I have been very TICKED OFF and I need to calm down, I will speak in my heavenly language under my breath to maintain my composure/to hold myself together.
I don't play with the Holy Spirit. I do my best to respect the sacred and holy presence of the Holy Spirit and the things of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you all for fellowshipping with me as this thread has truly been a blessing. You guys are helping to strengthen me and I believe this information will be of good use one day when explaining to someone. Let's keep the dialogue rolling!
firecracker
Well-Known Member
I could careless about phonies that think is a special gift to use whenever, whereever yada yada yada. Everyone praises God differently. No one has a blue print on the holy ghost. My last statement isn't hard to understand but it maybe hard to remember. Sin is sin.
Ms.Honey
New Member
What I don't understand is why you are making a big deal out of folks receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. If you don't want to receive it then don't ask for it, simple. Folks posted that they do want to receive it so they asked for it and about it.
And yes a sin is a sin, no one denies that but it's also true that when you go to set a snare for someone you fall into your own trap. You may want to think about who's really being a phony and also a hypocrite as a Christian before you post. You had to be sinning to be malicious and petty to try to catch me in a lie in the first place (which you and your friend have not) Focus on your own sins. Is it really that serious?
I never said that I NEVER sin. Read exactly what I said. What I said was that I have not PHYSICALLY sinned since I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I made sure that I said physically and not that I never sin at all because that's humanly impossible for anyone other than Jesus. I have sinned since being baptized with the Holy Spirit not PHYSICALLY but in word and thought AND have repented, another gift from God, the gift of forgiveness. Didn't know I was expected or needed to go back to tell that to folks I no longer deal with or speak to that I had to repent to God for something I said MONTHS ago (don't remember that scripture) but hey I don't USUALLY do disclaimers so enjoy this one. You need to build better traps chica.
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
When you replied to FoxxyScholar:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyScholar
Yes, this is true. This is how THE WORLD will know us: by our love. ETA: I suppose not only the world, but everyone in the world, fellow believers and everybody else).
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (St. John 13:35, KJV).
34-35"Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples—when they see the love you have for each other." (The Message)
We demonstrate agape love by our conduct (not (necessarily) by our works) but in how we behave and treat others.
And yet the Holy Spirit has a specific purpose and function for each and every believer. What is that sign, that evidence that is accessible to EVERY BELIEVER? (Acts 2:38-29).
This is what I thought you meant when you replied:
[/quote]Speaking in Tongues is that sign. [/quote]
[/quote]Some folks tradition may say that but the bible does not say that you need to be baptized with water or receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to go to heaven or to receive salvation. What it does say is the Baptism stregthens us to keep His commandments among other things.[/quote]
???In John 3, He declares: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the kingdom of God." (online source)
I believe that christians take this from the Jewish example (as christians were Jews ..then influx of gentiles) as the mikveh or water pool with a natural source in which one is submerged totally to transform body and soul to a higher religious state and in the case of converts, to a new existence. It was precisely prescribed by Jewish law and one is purified through submersion. I see a Jewish precedent to baptism.
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I
New Member
Forgive me...you know I love you...but are you saying that one can't really have a close and personal relationship with Jesus unless they speak heavenly language? Doesn't Jesus speak English etc.?
What I'm saying is through the heavenly language, there's ACCESS to an EVEN CLOSER, DEEPER relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
I feel like I should say for caution (through the guidance of the Holy Spirit) and in response to your post here is to forgive me for overemphasizing(?) speaking in tongues above other workings of the Holy Spirit. I believe I'm in the Word of God when I emphasize and advocate speaking in tongues. I do not mean to say that if one does not speak in tongues that they are not saved, or that they are going to hell and all that. I do believe what the Bible says about speaking in tongues is that outright, tangible, visible EVIDENCE of the infilling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4)
What I am saying is that speaking in tongues opens ACCESS to an EVEN CLOSER, DEEPER relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ...higher heights and deeper depths in the Lord...in worship...in relationship...in service...in ministry....
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