Is there a Curse on Black People?

[Crown]

Question: For you and anyone else who may have an answer.

Most African men have more than one wife (Polygamy) which has been a tradition since... 'always' ??? (even in Biblical times polygamy was their 'norm'?

What were the STD's then? I know there had to be something for the men were going from one woman to another. The hygiene for both men and women was not at the advantage that we are priviledged to have 'today', yet in 'our' time STD's are in epidemic proportions.

How were STD's back then? HIV / AIDS just popped up from out of 'nowhere' (so to speak). Sexual promiscurity didn't just evolve, it's been going on for centuries. So why 'now' the epidemic proportions of STD's?

Anyone have an answer or a theory?

Conspiracy theories or not, this can't be ignored.

The history of the development of AIDS
http://www.present-truth.org/7-Health-Secrets-Sem/Diseases/The%20History%20of%20the%20Development%20of%20AIDS.pdf

W. H .O. Murdered Africa
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/who.htm

AIDS: A Doctor’s Note on the Man-Made Theory
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/46a.htm

 

[Crown]

Muslims please chime in...

I had a conversation with a devout Muslim gentleman many years ago about this. He explained to me that blacks have already had their time at the top. He also stressed that when we were there, the world was a MUCH better place.

He didn't get into too much more detail about it and it didn't really make me feel any better.

By time at the top, did he mean at the pinnacle of Ancient Egypt's Power? I know black people were the rulers of Ancient Egypt. That is why are the European archaeologists and Arabs who lived in Egypt broke the noses off 90% of the statues and busts. That way no one could tell the Ancient Egyptians were black by their noses.

This is also my opinion.

Subdue the earth and have dominion over it! (Gen. 1:28)
Responsibility!
Not only, mankind subdued the earth, but they also subdued men.

Beasts in the Bible : super power, government.
................. Babylon, Persia, Greece, Roman..............

Tests and trials!

What did you do when you were in charge?

Maybe we are looking at a wrong angle.

Sorry, too tired to be more articulated.

 

[SilentRuby]

I usually don't join in religious topics but I do remember my mother being in a service where an African? Rabbi prayed over blacks and began denouncing all works of evil against us. She said that he said there were seeds sown for us to forever live in poverty, have broken families, remain at the bottom..., and etc. I won't type everything, but IMO there are some things that need to be broken. I do think that we don't pray and stick together as much as we did back in the day.

I know that God loves us all but if he is no respecter of person why is that our race suffers the most?

 

[Guitarhero]

I usually don't join in religious topics but I do remember my mother being in a service where an African? Rabbi prayed over blacks and began denouncing all works of evil against us. She said that he said there were seeds sown for us to forever live in poverty, have broken families, remain at the bottom..., and etc. I won't type everything, but IMO there are some things that need to be broken. I do think that we don't pray and stick together as much as we did back in the day.

I know that God loves us all but if he is no respecter of person why is that our race suffers the most?

How does one explain those who didn't grow up nor live in poverty? Is the curser only partial? Poverty is relative, though. The poor in America are very rich in certain other countries. No offense, but I don't think that was a rabbi...but a minister who called himself a rabbi. Just sounds like christianity. Jews don't go around denouncing evil, laying hands and praying over people like that...not in any synagogue I've ever been in. I do agree with your last statement concerning the charge that we're cursed somehow...because in my opinion, that would make G-d partial and not just.

 

[Shimmie]

Crown nicola.kirwan Prudent1 SilentRuby

Your three posts fit together as 'sections' of the puzzle; not pieces but major sections...

The Black Curse is:

Cursed words which were spoken over our race.leading to...

Racism, as the strongest root.

Woship of 'other' gods (witchcraft and demonic spirituality)

Tearing down of our support system of one another

Leaving family responsibility

I'm still reading through the thread ....

 

[Guitarhero]

I'm so sorry this is long...I'm copying and pasting...but to give another perspective on the historical context??? The curse on Ham's son because he had incestuous relations with Noah's wife, his mother. Canaan was the land/people of this sinful relationship and of worship of such. They were prophesied to be destroyed...already happened. All of Noah's sons were Black (imho).

Quote:
In Hebrew, this phrase (uncover the nakedness) is a figure of speech used to describe incest (Leviticus 20:17; 18:6-18. Note: In other places besides the story of Noah and Ham, The New American Bible translates this phrase as "to have intercourse with." The Revised Standard Version in all cases keeps the more literal translation "uncover the nakedness of." See RSV-Leviticus 20:17; 18:6-18).


To uncover the nakedness of your father is to commit incest with your mother. To state it bluntly, in all its brutality - while Noah was drunk, Ham slept with his mother. We don't know what Ham was thinking. It could be that he wanted to seize power from his dad and this heinous act was his way of insulting Noah and showing his total disrespect (see similar episodes in Genesis 29:32; 35:22; 49:3-4; 2 Samuel 16:21-22).


But notice that Noah doesn't curse Ham. He curses Canaan - the son born of this incestuous encounter. Why Canaan? It's another hint in the text of what Ham's crime was. As we'll see later, Canaan will be the founding father of a nation that will be known for its abominable practice of maternal incest (see Leviticus 18:6-18; Exodus 23:23-24).


Canaan is the bad fruit born of Noah's sin. But as Adam bore both Cain, the slayer of his brother, and Seth the righteous one, Noah too has a good seed: his firstborn son Shem, who had tried to "cover" his father's nakedness (see Genesis 9:23).

And this:

Here's that Haydock Douay-Rheims commentary on this subject:Ver. 25. Cursed be Chanaan. The curses, as well as the blessings, of the patriarchs were prophetical: and this in particular is here recorded by Moses, for the children of Israel, who were to possess the land of Chanaan. But why should Chanaan be cursed for his father's fault? The Hebrews answer, that he, being then a boy, was the first that saw his grandfather's nakedness, and told his father Cham of it; and joined with him in laughing at it: which drew upon him, rather than the rest of the children of Cham, this prophetical curse. (Challoner) --- Theodoret, q. 57. The children of Sem executed this sentence, in exterminating many of the Chanaanites under Josue. (Worthington) --- They perished for their own wickedness, which God foresaw, and revealed to Noe. Cham was severely punished by this denunciation of his children's misery. See Milton, xi. 754. xii. 27; Deuteronomy ix. 4. (Haydock)


And this:

Or the American Bible
Lev 18
The LORD said to Moses,
2
"Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the LORD, am your God.
3
You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs.
4
My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the LORD, am your God.
5
Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the man who carries them out will find life through them. I am the LORD.
6
1 "None of you shall approach a close relative to have sexual intercourse with her. I am the LORD.
7
You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother. Besides, since she is your own mother, you shall not have intercourse with her.
8
You shall not have intercourse with your father's wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father.
9
You shall not have intercourse with your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere.
10
You shall not have intercourse with your son's daughter or with your daughter's daughter, for that would be a disgrace to your own family.
11
You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father's wife bore to him, since she, too, is your sister.
12
You shall not have intercourse with your father's sister, since she is your father's relative.
13
You shall not have intercourse with your mother's sister, since she is your mother's relative.
14
You shall not disgrace your father's brother by being intimate with his wife, since she, too, is your aunt.
15
You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, and therefore you shall not disgrace her.
16
2 You shall not have intercourse with your brother's wife, for that would be a disgrace to your brother.
17
You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; this would be shameful, because they are related to her.
18
While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival; for thus you would disgrace your first wife.
19
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is unclean from menstruation.
20
You shall not have carnal relations with your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her.



Noah's sons and himself...could all have been Black.

 

[PinkPebbles]

@Crown @nicola.kirwan @Prudent1 @SilentRuby

Your three posts fit together as 'sections' of the puzzle; not pieces but major sections...

The Black Curse is:

Cursed words which were spoken over our race.leading to...

Racism, as the strongest root.

Woship of 'other' gods (witchcraft and demonic spirituality)

Tearing down of our support system of one another

Leaving family responsibility

I'm still reading through the thread ....

If you don't mind me asking you this question - If black people are cursed then who cursed the black race, God or man? And why?

 

[Shimmie]

Conspiracy theories or not, this can't be ignored.

The history of the development of AIDS
http://www.present-truth.org/7-Health-Secrets-Sem/Diseases/The%20History%20of%20the%20Development%20of%20AIDS.pdf

W. H .O. Murdered Africa
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/who.htm

AIDS: A Doctor’s Note on the Man-Made Theory
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/46a.htm

One thing that disturbs me when I read reports such as this are labels on hair and beauty products that say the following: "Not tested on animals" or this one: ''No animals were harmed during the filming of this project".

So where are the groups protecting 'humans' ?????

Crown thank you for the links. We had a guest speaker at Church a few years ago who shared your 3rd report with us. Back then I was shocked and I never believed the green monkey theory.

For several weeks my spirit has been very sensitive towards our Black community, leading me to the following perception:

The conspiracy is not over.

I have a concern is for the children in our Black community. I do not trust all of the government 'incentive' programs being offered to low income Black families. What's sad is that it doesn't take much of an incentive to offer many families to 'entice' them to participate; especially those looking for a decent break.

I am not an 'alarmist' neither am I hyped when I say this. I Just know that we have to pray; we have to bind up the 'strong man' and pray. Something is not right, I can sense it. We have to give God free flow in our hearts to lead us and to protect us from all danger. To show us the 'enemy's' hidden agenda, to bring it to light. To 'Deliver Us from Evil' to protect our children, our entire community, in Jesus' Name. Amen.

I don't want anyone reading this to panic and not allow their child to be vacinated for school; for vacinations have saved far too many lives than not. I still have the 'mark' on my upper arm from when I was 5 years old.

We have to 'watch' and pray about everything the government is introducing to our community. We cannot take their word for 'all' they promise. I just do not trust them.

Praise God for His mercies which endureth forever... and ever.

 

[aribell]

One thing that disturbs me when I read reports such as this are labels on hair and beauty products that say the following: "Not tested on animals" or this one: ''No animals were harmed during the filming of this project".

So where are the groups protecting 'humans' ?????

...

For several weeks my spirit has been very sensitive towards our Black community...

You know, Shimmie, me too. I know IR relationships get discussed ad nauseum on here, but for about a week almost every black man I saw was either married to or coupled up with a white woman. Now, I am not saying that IR relationships are a bad thing. Not at all! Please, no one take it that way. However, here is what I believe down to my toes: many of these men have illegitimate black children that they are neglecting and refusing to claim while they run off and commit to a non-black woman they consider a prize. And raise children they can be proud of because they are not completely black. And they will claim those children while leaving the black children fatherless. I have seen this up close and I don't think it's isolated.

Also, the popular media reveals the current flowing through the culture and Lil' Wayne made that statement where he said he was done having kids with black women. So I suppose when he finally gets his little girl with "good hair" that she'll be the one he prizes while the others are left behind because they're "just black." And the black community is just gulping down these messages.

Who on earth behaves this way toward their own??

 

[Shimmie]

If you don't mind me asking you this question - If black people are cursed then who cursed the black race, God or man? And why?

I don't mind at all, PinkPebbles...

This is what flows from my heart:

If God (cursed Black People), then why would He have sent Jesus to die for 'All' mankind as His Word promises?

If God cursed the Black race than why is my family living a blessed life? "We're Black. Why does He hear and answer my prayers? I'm Black. Why does He even 'speak' to me? Better yet, put up with me in all that I put Him through? Why did God save my son from a curse that is prominent in the Black community, the use and addiction of drugs? God gave me one promise after another from His Word and I watched each one come to past in my son's life.

Praise God !!!!! Glory to His Name! God delivered my son from that curse all because I asked Him to and I was not allowing my son to be a statistic. Oh No!

Why does God speak to each of us who are Black and in this forum and outside of this forum, from His Word 'Personally' and allow us to see His Word come to past in our lives individually?

The curse began with man in the Garden. Not with God, but with man.

God warned Adam [and Eve] at the very beginning, NOT to touch the Tree nor eat the fruit of it's branches. The consequence was death...man was cursed.

He was cursed first with losing a close relationship with God... alienation. Prior, Adam walked with God in the 'cool of the day', one on one in sweet fellowship, daily. Adam became separated from his Father.

The curse of homelessness; they lost their home; both Adam and Eve went into foreclosure; they were cast out of their first home which God designed expressly for them to enjoy where every need they could ever have was fully met.

The curse of the earth leading to the curse of poverty and hard labour. Adam was cursed to earn his food by the sweet of his brow, by having to 'toil the land' which gradually became a hard and unfertile terrain.

The curse of pain and suffering: Eve was to bear her children in great pain and almost any woman can attest to having painful labour during childbirth, uncomfortable pregnancies, PMS and to add to it.... "Her desire" would be to her husband, meaning to lay and get pregnant again (fruitful and multiply in pain).

The curse of rebellious children: Cain and Abel. Abel was obedient unto God and to his parents who obviously raised him to honour God; Cain rebelled with his incorrect offering unto the Lord.

The curse of death and family destruction : The slaying of Abel by his brother Cain

The curse of dishonesty and dishonour of God: Cain lied to God about Abel and was full of arrogance and insubordination... "Am I my brother's keeper?"

The curse of being exiled: Cain was 'marked' and banished from his mother and father...forever.

The curse of being 'Blackballed' .... I believe that Cain lived a life of discrimination...

Therefore, I do not believe that God put a curse upon Black People... instead it came as a result of Man when he sinned it opened the door for curses to fall upon men.

 

[Shimmie]

You know, Shimmie, me too. I know IR relationships get discussed ad nauseum on here, but for about a week almost every black man I saw was either married to or coupled up with a white woman. Now, I am not saying that IR relationships are a bad thing. Not at all! Please, no one take it that way. However, here is what I believe down to my toes: many of these men have illegitimate black children that they are neglecting and refusing to claim while they run off and commit to a non-black woman they consider a prize. And raise children they can be proud of because they are not completely black. And they will claim those children while leaving the black children fatherless. I have seen this up close and I don't think it's isolated.

Also, the popular media reveals the current flowing through the culture and Lil' Wayne made that statement where he said he was done having kids with black women. So I suppose when he finally gets his little girl with "good hair" that she'll be the one he prizes while the others are left behind because they're "just black." And the black community is just gulping down these messages.

Who on earth behaves this way toward their own??

Nicola, the entire human race has been cursed with the negative mindset that being Black (having dark skin) is a curse.

I have Indian friends who 'tan' very easily and they have all types of skin lighteners to counteract it. There's something in their culture that attaches 'shame' to having dark skin.

Life on the plantation is what cursed the minds of the Black community. They were 'brain controlled' to see the white women as beautiful and Black women as not. Only the lighter complexion women were allowed to work in the 'big house'; the darker skin women were placed in the fields. Our 'Black' men grew up with this, and it became worse with each new generation as the conditioning of this 'cursed' mindset began from the moment they came from the womb and grew up surrounded by the vast colors of skin.

Please forgive me when I say this and I submit to humility by apologizing in advance. I'm going to say it. The state of our 'Black men' needs more prayer than ever before. The reason is the enemy is stealing them from Black women, by either marrying white women or letting the world tell them it's okay to be gay.

The one thing I will say is that God does and will always hear our prayers to redeem 'all men' of all colors.

Another thing I've noticed and personally experienced is that White men do love Black women. And their love is increasing; it is truly on the rise in regards to Black men with white women.

Praise God. The tables are being turned.

 

[PinkPebbles]

I don't mind at all, PinkPebbles...

This is what flows from my heart:

If God (cursed Black People), then why would He have sent Jesus to die for 'All' mankind as His Word promises?

If God cursed the Black race than why is my family living a blessed life? "We're Black. Why does He hear and answer my prayers? I'm Black. Why does He even 'speak' to me? Better yet, put up with me in all that I put Him through? Why did God save my son from a curse that is prominent in the Black community, the use and addiction of drugs? God gave me one promise after another from His Word and I watched each one come to past in my son's life.

Praise God !!!!! Glory to His Name! God delivered my son from that curse all because I asked Him to and I was not allowing my son to be a statistic. Oh No!

Why does God speak to each of us who are Black and in this forum and outside of this forum, from His Word 'Personally' and allow us to see His Word come to past in our lives individually?

The curse began with man in the Garden. Not with God, but with man.

God warned Adam [and Eve] at the very beginning, NOT to touch the Tree nor eat the fruit of it's branches. The consequence was death...man was cursed.

He was cursed first with losing a close relationship with God... alienation. Prior, Adam walked with God in the 'cool of the day', one on one in sweet fellowship, daily. Adam became separated from his Father.

The curse of homelessness; they lost their home; both Adam and Eve went into foreclosure; they were cast out of their first home which God designed expressly for them to enjoy where every need they could ever have was fully met.

The curse of the earth leading to the curse of poverty and hard labour. Adam was cursed to earn his food by the sweet of his brow, by having to 'toil the land' which gradually became a hard and unfertile terrain.

The curse of pain and suffering: Eve was to bear her children in great pain and almost any woman can attest to having painful labour during childbirth, uncomfortable pregnancies, PMS and to add to it.... "Her desire" would be to her husband, meaning to lay and get pregnant again (fruitful and multiply in pain).

The curse of rebellious children: Cain and Abel. Abel was obedient unto God and to his parents who obviously raised him to honour God; Cain rebelled with his incorrect offering unto the Lord.

The curse of death and family destruction : The slaying of Abel by his brother Cain

The curse of dishonesty and dishonour of God: Cain lied to God about Abel and was full of arrogance and insubordination... "Am I my brother's keeper?"

The curse of being exiled: Cain was 'marked' and banished from his mother and father...forever.

The curse of being 'Blackballed' .... I believe that Cain lived a life of discrimination...

Therefore, I do not believe that God put a curse upon Black People... instead it came as a result of Man when he sinned it opened the door for curses to fall upon men.

The reason why I asked you that specific question because I thought you said the black race is cursed in a previous (lock) thread; as well as, insinuated the same thought in your last post #35 which I quoted.

However, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Shimmie]

The reason why I asked you that specific question because I thought you said the black race is cursed in a previous (lock) thread; as well as, insinuated the same thought in your last post #35 which I quoted.

However, thanks for the clarification.

@

Babygirl, there is a 'curse', it's too obvious to ignore it; but I never said that God 'cursed' the Black race.

PinkPebbles, I can't live behind my 'Blessed Life' anymore, praying for others, giving words of encouragement and not 'see' the truth of what lies behind the hurts of so many people that I pray for. God is bringing me to another level which is to 'see' more so that I can yield more to how He wants me to pray when He brings people to me and sends me to them. It's a change that comes to each of us yielded or not, it comes.

Don't let the enemy distract you with what I say or don't say. Your growth is in process too. Those of us in Christ Jesus, have His life and the growing never stops.

Posting Love #101 ...

 

[Shimmie]

You know, Shimmie, me too. I know IR relationships get discussed ad nauseum on here, but for about a week almost every black man I saw was either married to or coupled up with a white woman. Now, I am not saying that IR relationships are a bad thing. Not at all! Please, no one take it that way.


However, here is what I believe down to my toes: many of these men have illegitimate black children that they are neglecting and refusing to claim while they run off and commit to a non-black woman they consider a prize. And raise children they can be proud of because they are not completely black. And they will claim those children while leaving the black children fatherless. I have seen this up close and I don't think it's isolated.

Also, the popular media reveals the current flowing through the culture and Lil' Wayne made that statement where he said he was done having kids with black women. So I suppose when he finally gets his little girl with "good hair" that she'll be the one he prizes while the others are left behind because they're "just black." And the black community is just gulping down these messages.

Who on earth behaves this way toward their own??

I re-read your post and I have to post this..... again:

The first 'father of all nations' in the Bible did this... Abraham, when he sent Ishmael away and also when he sent away the son's he had with Keturah (his Black wife).

Nicola... I see a 'trail' to this pattern which has followed throughout the Black community. It cannot be a coincidence.

I know, I know... 'Issac' - God made a Covenant with Abraham and God is faithful, Abraham was not.


This is my perception yet I'm open to God's clarity on this and all else.

Sweet Sleep and Precious Blessings to Everyone

 

[Crown]

If you don't mind me asking you this question - If black people are cursed then who cursed the black race, God or man? And why?

I don't mind at all, PinkPebbles...

This is what flows from my heart:

If God (cursed Black People), then why would He have sent Jesus to die for 'All' mankind as His Word promises?

If God cursed the Black race than why is my family living a blessed life? "We're Black. Why does He hear and answer my prayers? I'm Black. Why does He even 'speak' to me? Better yet, put up with me in all that I put Him through? Why did God save my son from a curse that is prominent in the Black community, the use and addiction of drugs? God gave me one promise after another from His Word and I watched each one come to past in my son's life.

Praise God !!!!! Glory to His Name! God delivered my son from that curse all because I asked Him to and I was not allowing my son to be a statistic. Oh No!

Why does God speak to each of us who are Black and in this forum and outside of this forum, from His Word 'Personally' and allow us to see His Word come to past in our lives individually?

The curse began with man in the Garden. Not with God, but with man.

God warned Adam [and Eve] at the very beginning, NOT to touch the Tree nor eat the fruit of it's branches. The consequence was death...man was cursed.

He was cursed first with losing a close relationship with God... alienation. Prior, Adam walked with God in the 'cool of the day', one on one in sweet fellowship, daily. Adam became separated from his Father.

The curse of homelessness; they lost their home; both Adam and Eve went into foreclosure; they were cast out of their first home which God designed expressly for them to enjoy where every need they could ever have was fully met.

The curse of the earth leading to the curse of poverty and hard labour. Adam was cursed to earn his food by the sweet of his brow, by having to 'toil the land' which gradually became a hard and unfertile terrain.

The curse of pain and suffering: Eve was to bear her children in great pain and almost any woman can attest to having painful labour during childbirth, uncomfortable pregnancies, PMS and to add to it.... "Her desire" would be to her husband, meaning to lay and get pregnant again (fruitful and multiply in pain).

The curse of rebellious children: Cain and Abel. Abel was obedient unto God and to his parents who obviously raised him to honour God; Cain rebelled with his incorrect offering unto the Lord.

The curse of death and family destruction : The slaying of Abel by his brother Cain

The curse of dishonesty and dishonour of God: Cain lied to God about Abel and was full of arrogance and insubordination... "Am I my brother's keeper?"

The curse of being exiled: Cain was 'marked' and banished from his mother and father...forever.

The curse of being 'Blackballed' .... I believe that Cain lived a life of discrimination...

Therefore, I do not believe that God put a curse upon Black People... instead it came as a result of Man when he sinned it opened the door for curses to fall upon men.

This answer is so mankind, nothing specific to Black people!

 

[Crown]

One thing that disturbs me when I read reports such as this are labels on hair and beauty products that say the following: "Not tested on animals" or this one: ''No animals were harmed during the filming of this project".

So where are the groups protecting 'humans' ?????

@Crown thank you for the links. We had a guest speaker at Church a few years ago who shared your 3rd report with us. Back then I was shocked and I never believed the green monkey theory.

For several weeks my spirit has been very sensitive towards our Black community, leading me to the following perception:

The conspiracy is not over.

You are right!

The New World Order is not just a fiction.

 

[Crown]

You know, Shimmie, me too. I know IR relationships get discussed ad nauseum on here, but for about a week almost every black man I saw was either married to or coupled up with a white woman. Now, I am not saying that IR relationships are a bad thing. Not at all! Please, no one take it that way. However, here is what I believe down to my toes: many of these men have illegitimate black children that they are neglecting and refusing to claim while they run off and commit to a non-black woman they consider a prize. And raise children they can be proud of because they are not completely black. And they will claim those children while leaving the black children fatherless. I have seen this up close and I don't think it's isolated.

Also, the popular media reveals the current flowing through the culture and Lil' Wayne made that statement where he said he was done having kids with black women. So I suppose when he finally gets his little girl with "good hair" that she'll be the one he prizes while the others are left behind because they're "just black." And the black community is just gulping down these messages.

Who on earth behaves this way toward their own??

@

Babygirl, there is a 'curse', it's too obvious to ignore it; but I never said that God 'cursed' the Black race.

PinkPebbles, I can't live behind my 'Blessed Life' anymore, praying for others, giving words of encouragement and not 'see' the truth of what lies behind the hurts of so many people that I pray for. God is bringing me to another level which is to 'see' more so that I can yield more to how He wants me to pray when He brings people to me and sends me to them. It's a change that comes to each of us yielded or not, it comes.

Don't let the enemy distract you with what I say or don't say. Your growth is in process too. Those of us in Christ Jesus, have His life and the growing never stops.

Posting Love #101 ...

Did you see this video ?
400 years without a comb :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMf1heTa6A

Are brain-washing and ignorance curses?
So it's not about an entire group : Black people.

Take a group of white people (or whatever) keep them ignorant and condition them to believe what you want them to believe, over a long period of time, and you will have the same result.

The fact is not : whether or not a group is cursed.
The real fact is : lack of Love/compassion from the leaders (even from those who called/call themselves Christians).

And we all will have to give an account about what we did when we were at the top, governing the earth.

 

[aribell]

Did you see this video ?
400 years without a comb :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMf1heTa6A

Are brain-washing and ignorance curses?
So it's not about an entire group : Black people.

Take a group of white people (or whatever) keep them ignorant and condition them to believe what you want them to believe, over a long period of time, and you will have the same result.

The fact is not : whether or not a group is cursed.
The real fact is : lack of Love/compassion from the leaders (even from those who called/call themselves Christians).

And we all will have to give an account about what we did when we were at the top, governing the earth.

I don't think the bolded contradicts what has been discussed here. The more fundamental idea is that when it comes to the fate of nations--entire groups of people--Scripture shows that such things are not random. Yes, you would get the same result with another group of people, but it wasn't another group, and no matter who the group being discussed is, the inquiry is to whether there is a spiritual element in it.

Even if a person does not believe in curses at all, we do see biblically that there is always a "both and" with respect to events on the national scale. That there was both the Persian empire, but also the "prince of Persia" who was a fallen angel strong enough to resist the archangel Michael. There was a Prince of Tyre in the natural, but also the "King of Tyre," who is identified as Satan himself. We see God identifying Nebuchadnezzar as an evil ruler, but at the same time saying that He would use that evil ruler to bring punishment to the Israelites. The ruler was evil, but he was also identified as God's chosen vessel of wrath. And finally, Satan could not have offered to give Jesus all the nations unless they were under his power. The point simply being that I don't think it's ever "just" individual decisions made by natural rulers. There is a spiritual side that is just as real and active as the physical. We generally prefer to focus on the physical, as we can manage that more easily, but it just seems that the bible is filled with indications that it's about much more than that. And if we recognize it, then we can pray and fight spiritually with more power and accuracy.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

As far as curses go, you do see that Satan asks the Lord permission to do things. Like with Job, or when Jesus said that Satan asked to sift Peter. Whatever Satan is doing, he's being allowed to do, and IMO (it's just an idea that might be untrue) a curse is spiritual permission for Satan to work where the Lord might not otherwise give it, or where He would send his angels to fight and defend. When He says in various places throughout the OT that such and such a person will be cursed if they do X, perhaps that can be seen as Him saying He will allow evil to overtake that person or that group in a particular way. For instance, NT passages speak of God sending strong delusion because people refuse to love the truth. Well, in the OT, you have the scene where God sends a lying spirit to deceive King Ahab because he is unrighteous and continually surrounded himself with false prophets. God certainly doesn't lie, and I don't see how any of His angels could lie. So this may well be another example of the Lord allowing evil spirits to do bad work as punishment.

At the least, I believe we should all be able to agree that these things aren't simply random.

 

[Laela]

[This is a portion of an article that I'd like to share. Link is a bottom. Slavery existed long before the African slave trade. It's well-documented that in biblical times, there were slaves of a mixed multitude. Africa's slave trade turned into a morally depraved institution because of the skewering Scripture to justify treating other human beings like animals.]

.... Never mind, of course, that the Bible says that Canaan, Ham's son, was cursed, not Ham himself. Thus, only one of Ham's four sons, not all four, were cursed. How then could all black people everywhere be cursed?

Never mind that the Bible places limitations on curses-only three or four generations at most (Ex. 20:5).

Never mind that the curse on Canaan and his descendants-"Now there, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaves"-finds its most obvious fulfillment in the ongoing defeat and subjugation of Canaan by Israel (Josh. 9:23; 1 Kings 9:20-21).

Never mind that the descendants of Ham's other sons-Cush, Mizraim, and Put-have continued to this day as national peoples in Ethiopia (Cush), Egypt (Mizraim), and Libya (Put).

And never mind that God says that curses based on disobedience are reversed when people repent and turn again to obedience (Ex. 20:6). This is certainly sufficient to negate the Christian endorsement of the American enslavement of black Christians.

Myths, however, do not need facts; they simply need supporters. Because the myth of inferiority needed as much theological support as possible to make it stick, some Christians turned to the New Testament to corroborate the Old Testament verses on masters and slaves. These people quoted biblical passages on slaves submitting to their masters (e.g., Eph. 6:5-8; Col. 3:22)to contemporize the myth to the economic framework of the New World

The Puritans were attempting to turn America into the "city set on a hill," the manifestation of the prophesied kingdom of God on earth. Slavery provided an economic base for implementing this theology, even among some of the theological and religious heroes of the colonial era. Some of the noted New England leaders who endorsed this perspective of slavery were George Whitefield, John Davenport, Evera Styles, and Jonathan Edwards. (6) They attempted to teach the slaves to docilely accept their inferior status, for to do so was the will of God. To fail to do so was to rebel against God and risk eternal punishment. (7)

With this comprehensive "biblical" strategy, the myth of inferiority took theological wings. These Christians forgot that the apostle Paul told masters to treat converted slaves as equal brothers in Christ (Philem. 1:15-16). They forgot that the apostle Paul said that slaves had the right to try to change their status (1 Cor. 7:21). And they forgot that the masters' authority over slaves was limited.

It was not within the mater's rights to treat a slave in an inhumane manner. Masters were to apply the Golden Rule to slaves and were not to treat them as children of a lesser god. The God who rules both heaven and earth will show no partiality to those who commit evil against humankind, whether slave or free.

The colonial Christians forgot Paul's writing to the Ephesians, which says, "For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity" (Eph. 2:14-15). Barriers no longer exist between people's fellowship with God or each other, Paul said,

They forgot the biblical truth that to be members of the body of Christ means that preferences based on class, culture, or race are totally unacceptable to God, and people who make such preferences are candidates for His judgment (James 2:9-13). Such biblical data, however, would not support the inferiority myth. Adding such biblical references would be telling the whole truth, and truth and myth do not mix very well. Therefore, early Americans had to be selective about what Bible verses to use to establish a theological basis to justify slavery and perpetuate the inferiority myth.

- TONY EVANS
Jan 2010
http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Jan/18/are-black-people-cursed-curse-ham/

 

[PinkPebbles]

I don't think the bolded contradicts what has been discussed here. The more fundamental idea is that when it comes to the fate of nations--entire groups of people--Scripture shows that such things are not random. Yes, you would get the same result with another group of people, but it wasn't another group, and no matter who the group being discussed is, the inquiry is to whether there is a spiritual element in it.

Even if a person does not believe in curses at all, we do see biblically that there is always a "both and" with respect to events on the national scale. That there was both the Persian empire, but also the "prince of Persia" who was a fallen angel strong enough to resist the archangel Michael. There was a Prince of Tyre in the natural, but also the "King of Tyre," who is identified as Satan himself. We see God identifying Nebuchadnezzar as an evil ruler, but at the same time saying that He would use that evil ruler to bring punishment to the Israelites. The ruler was evil, but he was also identified as God's chosen vessel of wrath. And finally, Satan could not have offered to give Jesus all the nations unless they were under his power. The point simply being that I don't think it's ever "just" individual decisions made by natural rulers. There is a spiritual side that is just as real and active as the physical. We generally prefer to focus on the physical, as we can manage that more easily, but it just seems that the bible is filled with indications that it's about much more than that. And if we recognize it, then we can pray and fight spiritually with more power and accuracy.


.

Nicola – I’m curious to know - Did God reveal to you the stronghold that is behind all of the curses associated with the black race so you can pray effectively and accurately? Did He give you the reasons why He allowed slavery to occur in the U.S and the psychological effects from the re results of it? Where the Black race under judgment like the Israelites as you describe in your post for breaking God’s covenant?

 

[aribell]

Nicola – I’m curious to know - Did God reveal to you the stronghold that is behind all of the curses associated with the black race so you can pray effectively and accurately? Did He give you the reasons why He allowed slavery to occur in the U.S and the psychological effects from the re results of it? Where the Black race under judgment like the Israelites as you describe in your post for breaking God’s covenant?

PinkPebbles, what I wrote, I wrote for reflection and as something for discussion. It is something that has been increasingly on my mind and something that I have been looking into. This is not necessarily about "black people" despite the title of the thread. It's about spiritual warfare in general and how things operate in this world.

I recognize that I didn't directly answer your question, but that was intentional because it really has nothing to do with me or my opinions. I think we're all able to discuss this and whatever I said I pointed to biblical examples to support why I think this way. Based on the understanding and light that you have from the Lord you may take it or leave it.

 

[Guitarhero]

[This is a portion of an article that I'd like to share. Link is a bottom. Slavery existed long before the African slave trade. It's well-documented that in biblical times, there were slaves of a mixed multitude. Africa's slave trade turned into a morally depraved institution because of the skewering Scripture to justify treating other human beings like animals.]

The Ph.D. with the lisp! I absolutely love to hear him. Seems that every time we head across country, Dr. Evans comes on the radio mid-Ohio and I just have a good ole time listening to him and I wake right up lol. Never can get enough and he appeals to my senses (logic/history folks...I don't have a crush lol). Thanks for this. I wonder if he is on YT.


General discussion:

I believe that many peoples are oppressed in this world and it's all relative to their experience, history, psychology, spirituality and explanations of...perhaps the slavery still existing is self-inflicted? It's a result of ignorance and complacency? The elephant can be held captive by a simple chain on a post to his leg. He doesn't break free because he believes he is not free. He doesn't see that he is his own master.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I have no real opinion on the issue, just thoughts: There are those that believe the story of the Israelite jews is a stolen history (by the people who currently identify as Jews) and that it was the African jews who were subjugated and persecuted and were promised redemption with the return of a messiah. Now, that goes against Christian philosophy that the messiah did indeed come and redeem us all, but it is an interesting theory and there are quite a few parallels to the current state of bondage of African descendants today. I find it interesting that Christianity has often been manipulated to further the subjugation of black people (and others, to be fair) and to justify so many injustices. I also find it interesting that the current black church seems to think the answer is ignoring the obvious racism and barriers that exist and focusing on increasing wealth (which is often precluded by those things). Consequently, things are worse than ever for the impoverished, working poor, and disappearing middle class, and basically no one is championing the cause anymore. What all this means I have no idea...but it somehow seemed relevant...sorry if it's not!

 

[Laela]

@pebbles, valid questions; I had to blink a few times when I read your first question, because that very thought came to my mind yesterday. Maybe this is a wake-up call for some to pray against the spiritual strongholds on 'black folks as a whole.' Maybe God has lain this on Shimmie's heart. We should never be weary in well-doing. Now, my only problem with this, however, is ... Does the Black People in question include Africans...other blacks throughout the world who have never lived in US or Africa, the Caribbean? Or is this just about African-Americans and blacks born in the USA? I mean, there are Africans and 'black' people who don't have 'dark skin'. There are 'blacks' of mixed 'races' everywhere, including Indians in the Americas and Caribbean. There are some Asians with skin darker than some Africans...

So you see, a topic like this would only cause divisions...because of the cultural and physical aspects.

On the spritual level, it's being known that Africa is in the middle of a spiritual revival. More often, African leaders/ministers are coming HERE to minister to the people in the United States. What is this saying? The Bible tells us poverty is not only about economic status. REAL POVERTY is a life without Christ. One can choose to live without money and not be poor. On can be rich as all get out and be depraved emotionally, spiritually, ethically, etc.

@Nicola ITA there is definitely spiritual validity to all of this, and I really get all of what you're saying because I agree. There is more to all this that what is being said. It's a good discussion that really is giving me a lot to think about, on the practical level. No need to be a historian or intellectual to know that spiritual warfare is the bottom line, despite the controversial topic of this thread. I like to identify with the Caribbean and Africa because of lineage, but my first identity is in Jeshua, son of the Most High God.

'Race' was created by man to cause division. WHO is behind this? The story of the Tower of Babel shows us that when men come together, anything they put their mind to is possible but within the limit of God's Sovereignty. When the People of God come together, whether it's through fasting/prayer or even agreeing, God (the real Power Source) is in the midst. I've had my fair share of reggaefied "Solidarity" rallies/music/events, etc. Without God in the midst, it's all rendered ineffective. We need God to truly come together.
Who is the real enemy, causing all this contention? When we all get to heaven, ya'll know he won't be there

 

[Crown]

I don't think the bolded contradicts what has been discussed here. The more fundamental idea is that when it comes to the fate of nations--entire groups of people--Scripture shows that such things are not random. Yes, you would get the same result with another group of people, but it wasn't another group, and no matter who the group being discussed is, the inquiry is to whether there is a spiritual element in it.

Even if a person does not believe in curses at all, we do see biblically that there is always a "both and" with respect to events on the national scale. That there was both the Persian empire, but also the "prince of Persia" who was a fallen angel strong enough to resist the archangel Michael. There was a Prince of Tyre in the natural, but also the "King of Tyre," who is identified as Satan himself. We see God identifying Nebuchadnezzar as an evil ruler, but at the same time saying that He would use that evil ruler to bring punishment to the Israelites. The ruler was evil, but he was also identified as God's chosen vessel of wrath. And finally, Satan could not have offered to give Jesus all the nations unless they were under his power. The point simply being that I don't think it's ever "just" individual decisions made by natural rulers. There is a spiritual side that is just as real and active as the physical. We generally prefer to focus on the physical, as we can manage that more easily, but it just seems that the bible is filled with indications that it's about much more than that. And if we recognize it, then we can pray and fight spiritually with more power and accuracy.



As far as curses go, you do see that Satan asks the Lord permission to do things. Like with Job, or when Jesus said that Satan asked to sift Peter. Whatever Satan is doing, he's being allowed to do, and IMO (it's just an idea that might be untrue) a curse is spiritual permission for Satan to work where the Lord might not otherwise give it, or where He would send his angels to fight and defend. When He says in various places throughout the OT that such and such a person will be cursed if they do X, perhaps that can be seen as Him saying He will allow evil to overtake that person or that group in a particular way. For instance, NT passages speak of God sending strong delusion because people refuse to love the truth. Well, in the OT, you have the scene where God sends a lying spirit to deceive King Ahab because he is unrighteous and continually surrounded himself with false prophets. God certainly doesn't lie, and I don't see how any of His angels could lie. So this may well be another example of the Lord allowing evil spirits to do bad work as punishment.

At the least, I believe we should all be able to agree that these things aren't simply random.

We are talking about Black people, not individuals. I am not sure about how I can reconcile what you are saying with what the Bible said :

Ez. [SIZE=-1]18.1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 18.2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? 18.3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 18.4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

All this chapter.
[/SIZE]

 

[Crown]

Maybe, we don’t have the same understanding of what is a curse.
I think there is a confusion between action/reaction(or consequence) and curse.

Action : slavery, colonialism, invasion, brain washing… during a long period of time.
Consequences : poverty, low esteem, low education, hate………..

Curse : whatever you do (education, investment...), you will not go away!
Is this the case for Black people : NO.

 

[Detroit2Dallas]

.....Christ is coming for the REMNANT....remnant is the last, the left over, the part no one bothers to scrap up.....the lest shall be the greatest.....think about that

 

[Shimmie]

This answer is so mankind, nothing specific to Black people!

You're right, it is 'mankind'. Yet it's the 'mankind' of our Black community who are most affected.

"Why our people?"

My first Pastor use to say this a lot:

"The devil hates Black People because he is afraid of the power that we possess. satan knows that once 'we' as a Black Whole, come together in support of one another, that we will literally 'wipe' out his plans."

When you think about it, we are the most gifted and talented of all people in this earth. We definitely can Dance ... and sing. I'm not being catty with this comment. We have beautiful gifts with design and hair care long before this forum existed. Even the shortest hair was made to look classic by 'sisters' who knew how to work a hair style. We have builders, architects, landscaping skills that have made history in the richest of homes. We have mathematicians, science scholars, wizard minds in technology that even the government couldn't invent; doctors who have the gift of surgical skills that can never be matched.

Yet.... why is 'our' race still on the bottom?

What on earth is going on?

We more than qualify to be above the other races who have succeeded to achieve where it should instead be our people? What is going on? What?

I know that racism plays a huge key, however racism abides in all races and cultures, etc. How is it that we have been subdued by it? Why was it 'our' race that ended up in American slavery and not another?

Why did our forefathers have to be the ones who were whipped, beaten, burned alive, shot, hung as 'strange fruit' on southern trees?

Why is it Black skin no matter what shade -- light, tan, honey or rich brown -- why is it 'our' skin that is under such scrutiny and not one that is white.

Why do Eastern Indians own Dunkin Donuts and Baskin Robbins Ice stores (combined) ???

Why are 90% of the taxis I ride in have Middle Eastern drivers?

Why does the solid waste industry have 90% white execs and the trash trucks are driven by Blacks and the garbage pickups are Black men?

I just want to know why 'our race' and not another? What made 'us' the prime and conquered targets.?

Why?

So many of 'our' People are hurting from this. I met a woman who shared with me that she once wanted to 'die' because she was 'Black'. The love of God healed her heart from this. But there are a lot of women who do not want to live because they are Black and this spirit of opression has to be done away with.

I only have parts of the puzzle. I need the whole picture and it's origin so that the roots of it's affect can be destroyed.

 

[aribell]

We are talking about Black people, not individuals. I am not sure about how I can reconcile what you are saying with what the Bible said :

Ez. [SIZE=-1]18.1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 18.2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? 18.3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 18.4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

[SIZE=-1]All this chapter.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

The book of Malachi was authored after Ezekiel, and in 4:6, there is the verse saying that the Lord will turn the hearts of the father to the children, "lest I strike the earth with a curse." So, the Lord was still speaking of curses even after He inspired Ezekiel, so I can't take Ezekiel 18 to mean that they no longer exist.

Prior to the Lord speaking that in Ezekiel, there was no relief from a curse, regardless of one's faith or righteousness. If it was a curse for all generations, then that was it--period. However, the Lord has made a way of redemption from curses--through repentance and faith. It doesn't mean they no longer exist, but that unlike before, you can escape them by deliberately turning away from wickedness and living righteously.

I think that's why this topic is not a negative one to me. Redemption is readily available to all, and indeed, has been experienced by many.

ETA: I was curious and looked at an online concordance. Curses are mentioned several other times after Ezekiel 18 was written.

I also found that the final end to all curses will come in the new heavens and the new earth. Revelation 22:3 says: "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him."

I thought it was interesting that the word "any" is used. Like, it's not just one curse (from the Garden) that will cease, but there will no longer be any curse whatsoever. The ESV says, "No longer will anything be accursed," which at least to me seems to imply that before we all get to the new heavens and the new earth, there are plenty of things which are, in fact, cursed.

I didn't intend to get this deep, but it's there. This is interesting and significant to me, but as Laela mentioned this may not be profitable for others. And some may feel that what is being talked about is a personal condemnation or devaluation of their worth as black women--which is not at all the case. So, I may choose not to continue to engage in this discussion.

 

[Shimmie]

The book of Malachi was authored after Ezekiel, and in 4:6, there is the verse saying that the Lord will turn the hearts of the father to the children, "lest I strike the earth with a curse." So, the Lord was still speaking of curses even after He inspired Ezekiel, so I can't take Ezekiel 18 to mean that they no longer exist.

Prior to the Lord speaking that in Ezekiel, there was no relief from a curse, regardless of one's faith or righteousness. If it was a curse for all generations, then that was it--period. However, the Lord has made a way of redemption from curses--through repentance and faith. It doesn't mean they no longer exist, but that unlike before, you can escape them by deliberately turning away from wickedness and living righteously.

I think that's why this topic is not a negative one to me. Redemption is readily available to all, and indeed, has been experienced by many.

ETA: I was curious and looked at an online concordance. Curses are mentioned several other times after Ezekiel 18 was written.

I also found that the final end to all curses will come in the new heavens and the new earth. Revelation 22:3 says: "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him."

I thought it was interesting that the word "any" is used. Like, it's not just one curse (from the Garden) that will cease, but there will no longer be any curse whatsoever. The ESV says, "No longer will anything be accursed," which at least to me seems to imply that before we all get to the new heavens and the new earth, there are plenty of things which are, in fact, cursed.

I didn't intend to get this deep, but it's there. This is interesting and significant to me, but as Laela mentioned this may not be profitable for others. And some may feel that what is being talked about is a personal condemnation or devaluation of their worth as black women--which is not at all the case. So, I may choose not to continue to engage in this discussion.

Nicola...

My heartfelt prayer is that the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, prevails among and within each of us for and towards one another.

The sooner the 'Truth' is exposed regarding the struggles of our culture, the more of our loved ones and loved ones of others will be free.

There's a wall that God has been trying to tear down to redeem and set free those who have been held captive far too long. "Feel Good" messages are not going to do what God is calling (His vessels) to do. It's only 'icing' glossing over the hidden which needs to be confronted in order to be rendered powerless in the lives of those we love and pray for.

Pastor taught a series on Curses and it was also one of his courses in Biblle College and in our Bible Studies. He was lead of the Lord to do this because when it comes to the word 'curse', he noticed that most people would become very 'quiet and appeared to be fearful when this word was uttered. The very word itsself sends some into a panic.

I've seen this reaction and in the Body of Christ, this should not be, as we have a Blood Covenant, sealed in God's Blood which protects each one in Christ from any curse. A curse in itsself is nothing to joke about, yet it has no power neither over or against those in Christ. And I'm not just saying this because someone else said it. It's not an 'echo'.

In my life as a Christian, I've had so many threats spoken against me, but God has built a wall of fire of His protection around me and my family. God always prepares me. One morning I opened my door and there was a trail of salt outlining the porch and the entrance area of my front door... my 'walking path'. My first reactiion was Before I could be the Holy Spirit rose up in my heart with the Word of God in Luke 10:19

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by ANY MEANS hurt you.

I couldn't be a prisoner in my home, let alone be afraid to walk in the 'call' that God has ordained for me. I had to make a choice to believe in God or believe in the evil that was set against me. I got the broom, stepped in the salt and swept it away. I could have had someone else do it for me, but I had to face it or allow it to control my faith. Other 'events' have occurred and each one just made me bolder and more aware of God's presence in my life.

In regards to our OP's thread topic, this is a very sensitive area; many will be offended, some fearful, others will seek the face of God for the Truth and His direction. This 'issue' is indeed at hand and it has to be confronted in order for our culture to be set free.

We have a new generation before us, and they need to be under God's covering and enabled to flourish in His blessings giving God all honour and praises as the Light of the World and the rich Salt of God's earth.

Speak what God tells you to speak... none of us know who is being set free. However, I for one, I am listening.