Is Hair Really Just Hair?

[Tefnut]

Do you consider long hair to be a beauty standard that is nonblack?

No, I don't consider long hair to be a nonblack beauty standard. But that doesn't mean that many black women don't desire longer hair based on non-black beauty standards or to prove that having long hair isn't just for nonblacks. This also doesn't mean that many black men don't desire black women with long hair (even if it's a weave that's destroying her real hair) based on non-black beauty standards.

Or, is that one of those misconceptions?

I think it's a misconception overall.

Every time a black woman is aiming for long hair, is it somewhat because she's trying to have white beauty?

I won't propose to say what every black woman does because I don't know every black woman. I was just pointing out things I observed and have even been told while discussing hair with various black women over the years. And, IMHO, it would be foolish for any of us, regardless of how conscious one may feel they are, to believe that we aren't affected by white beauty.

Or, is long hair a universal beauty thing?

As I said earlier, it's universal depending on particular ethnic clans.

Does beauty-from-long-hair belong NATURALLY to nonblack woman and ONLY UNNATURALLY or by COPYCAT "belong" to black women?

No, I don't believe this, generally. I specifically addressed the motivations for some black women based on growing up in the world post-colonialism and post-Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. Some women won't readily admit this out of fear of being ostracized (this wouldn't be popular in this black girl magic era) or won't say in mixed company. But when you really talk to people, the truth always surfaces. Some women want to flip their hair around like the longer-haired women they saw growing up. Some of those same women also expressed how they felt when they were children or how boys responded to longer vs shorter hair. It's pretty interesting.

I love that myself and other black women are having longer and longer hair and I thought I was glad because we are no longer letting unhealthy hair care practices eat up our hair and are attaining what is universally a beautiful thing (not that short hair isn't also), not because I was thinking, "We're getting to be like white women now. Yay." But I could be misunderstanding myself.

Absolutely. I think black women starting to take control of their hair and doing what they want to do with it whether it's wearing it short, long, relaxed, blond or chemical-free is great. I'm glad they're finally moving in that direction though there's a lot of cult-like ideas about natural hair and such. Hopefully, that'll pass.

Maybe some people think long hair is mainly beautiful because they associate long hair with whiteness . . . and if white women only had short hair, they would not want long hair. That doesn't sound correct to me, but I could be wrong.

Unsure what you meant to say here. Could you please clarify?

ETA: I am indeed glad when I see young black girls with their hair thriving, and part of that gladness is that they don't erroneously believe long hair is not for them and only for others.

Sure. I don't see anything wrong with this either. But the fact they have to course-correct and reteach themselves that they can have long hair is another result of slavery and colonialism, IMHO. Such limiting ideas about and attacks on black hair shouldn't have even existed. But everything happens as it should so here we are.

Again, I wasn't pointing out a right or wrong. I was sharing my thoughts on my observations, conversations and own introspection.

Interesting.

Do you consider long hair to be a beauty standard that is nonblack? Or, is that one of those misconceptions?

Just thinking aloud and making no accusations about what you meant:

Every time a black woman is aiming for long hair, is it somewhat because she's trying to have white beauty? Or, is long hair a universal beauty thing? Does beauty-from-long-hair belong NATURALLY to nonblack woman and ONLY UNNATURALLY or by COPYCAT "belong" to black women?

Hmm.

I love that myself and other black women are having longer and longer hair, and I thought I was glad because we are no longer letting unhealthy hair care practices eat up our hair and are attaining what is universally a beautiful thing (not that short hair isn't also), not because I was thinking, "We're getting to be like white women now. Yay." But I could be misunderstanding myself. Maybe some people think long hair is mainly beautiful because they associate long hair with whiteness . . . and if white women only had short hair, they would not want long hair. That doesn't sound correct to me, but I could be wrong.

ETA: I am indeed glad when I see young black girls with their hair thriving, and part of that gladness is that they don't erroneously believe long hair is not for them and only for others.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

Do you consider long hair to be a beauty standard that is nonblack?

No, I don't consider long hair to be a nonblack beauty standard. But that doesn't mean that many black women don't desire longer hair based on non-black beauty standards or to prove that having long hair isn't just for nonblacks. This also doesn't mean that many black men don't desire black women with long hair (even if it's a weave that's destroying her real hair) based on non-black beauty standards.

Or, is that one of those misconceptions?

I think it's a misconception overall.

Every time a black woman is aiming for long hair, is it somewhat because she's trying to have white beauty?

I won't propose to say what every black woman does because I don't know every black woman. I was just pointing out things I observed and have even been told while discussing hair with various black women over the years. And, IMHO, it would be foolish for any of us, regardless of how conscious one may feel they are, to believe that we aren't affected by our experiences by white beauty.

Or, is long hair a universal beauty thing?

As I said earlier, it's universal depending on particular ethnic clans.

Does beauty-from-long-hair belong NATURALLY to nonblack woman and ONLY UNNATURALLY or by COPYCAT "belong" to black women?

No, I don't believe this, generally. I specially addressed the motivations for some black women based on growing up in the world post-colonialism and post-Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. Some women won't readily admit this out of fear of being ostracized (this wouldn't be popular in this black girl magic era) or won't say in mixed company. But when you really talk to people, the truth always surfaces. Some women want to flip their hair around like the longer-haired women they saw growing up. Some of those same women also expressed how they felt when they were children or how boys responded to longer vs shorter hair. It's pretty interesting.

I love that myself and other black women are having longer and longer hair and I thought I was glad because we are no longer letting unhealthy hair care practices eat up our hair and are attaining what is universally a beautiful thing (not that short hair isn't also), not because I was thinking, "We're getting to be like white women now. Yay." But I could be misunderstanding myself.

Absolutely. I think black women starting to take control of their hair and doing what they want to do with it whether it's wearing it short, long, relaxed, blond or chemical-free is great. I'm glad they're finally moving in that direction though there's a lot of cult-like ideas about natural hair and such. Hopefully, that'll pass.

Maybe some people think long hair is mainly beautiful because they associate long hair with whiteness . . . and if white women only had short hair, they would not want long hair. That doesn't sound correct to me, but I could be wrong.

Unsure what you meant to say here. Could you please clarify?

ETA: I am indeed glad when I see young black girls with their hair thriving, and part of that gladness is that they don't erroneously believe long hair is not for them and only for others.

Sure. I don't see anything wrong with this either. But the fact they have to course-correct and reteach themselves that they can have long hair is another result of slavery and colonialism, IMHO. Such limiting ideas about black hair shouldn't have even existed. But everything happens as it should so here we are.

Again, I wasn't pointing out a right or wrong. I was sharing my thoughts on my observations, conversations and own introspection.

Regarding the bolded I was just thinking aloud: Logically if black women only want long hair because white women have it, then that means that if white women DID NOT HAVE LONG HAIR, then black women wouldn't be checking for it. But I don't think that would be true. I believe long hair would still be desirable because there is something beautiful about it just for itself . . . not that short hair doesn't also have beauty . And yes, I'm sure that many/some black women desire to look like white women, hair-wise.

And I do get what you were saying overall, and I don't think it's possible to 100% escape the effects of history and the environment . . . I guess I'm just sick of giving so much power to them and their beauty standards. If I desire long hair, it's because I want to be like white girls and am a product of my environment and grew up with issues about my short hair while I watched black boys loving white women's long hair . . . and . . .

My liking or aiming for long hair has to be about them, too. It just gets a little tiring, is all. Everything about US has to be a counterpoint to THEM.

And, I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that or anything, I'm just tired. Is there an "us" not a function of them? Ever. Ever?

I'll be ayight tomorrow.

 

[Evolving78]

In the video, he touched on human hair extensions.

 

[Tefnut]

Regarding the bolded I was just thinking aloud: Logically if black women only want long hair because white women have it, then that means that if white women DID NOT HAVE LONG HAIR, then black women wouldn't be checking for it.

I think the tools used to attack black people's esteem and mindset were the ones used. Hair may have been something easier because it is one of the things that distinguishes us from many other groups. There are other groups with dark skin, full lips, flat or bulbous nose and even some with frizzy hair, but no other with the unique combination that black people possess. Even though there were (non-mixed) black slaves with longer hair, haircare was the last thing on their minds and I think many healthy hair practices were kinda lost.

But I don't think that would be true. I believe long hair would still be desirable because there is something beautiful about it just for itself . . . not that short hair doesn't also have beauty . . . and not that some black women may desire to look like white women, hair-wise.

I think some longer hair is beautiful just as I think some shorter hairstyles are beautiful. Again, this isn't an attack on desiring longer hair. I'm growing my hair back to my waist and this site is called Long Hair Care Forum ... But, none of this negates the influence (major or minor) that non-black beauty standards may have had or have on some black women's desire for long hair. It is what it is.

And I do get what you were saying overall, and I don't think it's possible to 100% escape the effects of history and the environment . . . I guess I'm just sick of giving so much power to them and their beauty standards. If I desire long hair, it's because I want to be like white girls and am a product of my environment and grew up with issues about my short hair while I watched black boys loving white women's long hair . . . and . . .

I totally understand about giving white people power. I've been wearing my hair natural for a very, very long time, which went against the popular beauty standards for white and black women. (And I'm still pretty young.) I also have different thoughts about how and why various situations manifest but I won't divert this thread lol. So I definitely get what you're saying. With that said, I try to be as introspective and honest with myself and in my interactions with others as I possibly can. And, as I said previously, in my conversations and observations with other black women -- no matter how many ankhs or geles they donned or how conscious they appeared -- that influence was present. I know women who wore twist-outs and locs and talked about black girl magic while simultaneously talking about "good hair" and make disparaging remarks about "African" features. IMHO, these women clearly weren't honest with themselves (or maybe they were -- ignorance is bliss for many) and it surfaced. Those ignorant thoughts came through.

My liking or aiming for long hair has to be about them, too. It just gets a little tiring, is all. Everything about US has to be a counterpoint to THEM.

I totally get this. It is very exhausting. But, sadly, many black women's hair choices continue to be influenced by nonblack beauty standards. Not saying it's right or wrong. Just sharing my observations. I do, however, encourage black women to be honest with themselves about any choice they make in life and why. It doesn't mean you have to share it with anyone, just know for yourself. It can help make this life experience a bit easier.

And, I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that or anything, I'm just tired. Is there an "us" not a function of them? Ever. Ever?

I KNOW, I KNOW. I didn't want to derail the thread by bringing this up, but some believe that nothing happens by chance and that we came here specifically for particular experiences. So, by default, even if desiring longer hair or anything else appears to be influenced by nonblack beauty standards, that is still something you created and wanted, which means it's your own influence anyway.

But, as I said, that's a whole other discussion. It's truly neverending.

I'll be ayight tomorrow.

Girl, you're gonna be all good!

Regarding the bolded I was just thinking aloud: Logically if black women only want long hair because white women have it, then that means that if white women DID NOT HAVE LONG HAIR, then black women wouldn't be checking for it. But I don't think that would be true. I believe long hair would still be desirable because there is something beautiful about it just for itself . . . not that short hair doesn't also have beauty . . . and not that some black women may desire to look like white women, hair-wise.

And I do get what you were saying overall, and I don't think it's possible to 100% escape the effects of history and the environment . . . I guess I'm just sick of giving so much power to them and their beauty standards. If I desire long hair, it's because I want to be like white girls and am a product of my environment and grew up with issues about my short hair while I watched black boys loving white women's long hair . . . and . . .

My liking or aiming for long hair has to be about them, too. It just gets a little tiring, is all. Everything about US has to be a counterpoint to THEM.

And, I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that or anything, I'm just tired. Is there an "us" not a function of them? Ever. Ever?

I'll be ayight tomorrow.

 

[Tefnut]

The bolded made me smile.

For me in my world, hair is just hair. I've shaved it. I've grown it out past my waist. In the end (for me) it's just hair. If I lost all of it today, I'd rock my baldie proudly. However, I do recognize that for other people, hair can be everything. I can respect that.

 

[Tefnut]

AdoraAdora24 has spoken and said no one will steal her joy from enjoying and having MLB or thigh-length hair.

BTW, I did pick up some Blue Magic! I got the original but when I opened up the green Bergamot version, it took me back to my childhood. I kept my PJism in check and only got the blue one. It is the truth. Thanks for pushing it.

This is so true .......for opions!

But the FACT still remains that hair is not just hair.

 

[keranikki]

I have nothing to add. I really enjoyed the various perspectives and I pretty much have the same sentiments as @Tefnut.

 

[halee_J]

Everything I was thinking both for and against have already been stated.

Is it just hair? It depends on how you look at it. I just want to say I'm so happy to have found this space where we can share things that matter to us. Things that may seem trivial to others.

Its cool to know that I am not alone in my thoughts.

 

[I Am So Blessed]

AdoraAdora24 has spoken and said no one will steal her joy from enjoying and having MLB or thigh-length hair.

BTW, I did pick up some Blue Magic! I got the original but when I opened up the green Bergamot version, it took me back to my childhood. I kept my PJism in check and only got the blue one. It is the truth. Thanks for pushing it.

LOL this is so funny, I love it.

I am just so glad that you like the Blue Magic, you're right it does take you back. Back to the days of twists and animal barrettes lol.

Please keep us updated!!

 

[Sharpened]

My hair is a reflection of me and how the Father created me to be. It is a symbol of Yah's will and the choices He gave and still gives me in life. Glory means heaviness, abundance, the all-in-all; the all-in-all is what I aim for, regardless of whatever happens to my hair in the future.

 

[kxlot79]

Hmm.
That's interesting. To a great degree, I agree.
What I have found personally bothersome is when people get into discussion with me about my hair and then respond dismissively or hostilely on the care/time/energy/effort I put into my hair, saying "It's JUST hair" in that way that would cause bondage. BUT clearly be in the throes of some kind of bondage themselves with something else.
I take issue with those viewing haircare as a vice while being too holier-than-thou about their own vices.

I always considered "growing hands" to be an expression of this phenomenon: a stylist's energy being able to make your hair/look flourish where others had failed. What do you think growing hands are?

I think when people say hair is just hair, it means that they won't allow their hair to cause bondage, or make hair their god.
I do believe in hair carrying positive and negative energy.

I don't believe in growing hands, but I do believe that a stylist's energy will have an impact on their clients, and their work will reflect that energy.

 

[Evolving78]

Hmm.
That's interesting. To a great degree, I agree.
What I have found personally bothersome is when people get into discussion with me about my hair and then respond dismissively or hostilely on the care/time/energy/effort I put into my hair, saying "It's JUST hair" in that way that would cause bondage. BUT clearly be in the throes of some kind of bondage themselves with something else.
I take issue with those viewing haircare as a vice while being too holier-than-thou about their own vices.

I always considered "growing hands" to be an expression of this phenomenon: a stylist's energy being able to make your hair/look flourish where others had failed. What do you think growing hands are?

I think people take that expression literally, and I feel it's not just energy. Having knowledge, care, patience, professionalism, and passion is what will make a great stylist. I feel the energy is what will make the experience even better.

Oloving things all hair, or being a hobbyist is not what I consider bondage. When hair practices become abusive, neglectful, trying to force something that just won't happen, not being accepting of what hair is and what it is capable of, holding on to damage for the sake of length, going broke trying to find the holy grail, taking loans out for fake hair, robbing, stealing, and killing folks over fake hair/products, being envious of others, etc that's when you fall into bondage, or making the hair become your god.

 

[kxlot79]

Do you think you could describe how you feel different with weave? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I think "growing hands" is definitely a spiritual phenomenon and not skill. But I also think that it's one of those things where if you're not open to it, or are inclined to only acknowledge logical evidence, that's all you'll see. Kinda like the topic of discussion. I think perception shapes your reality instead of the reverse.
If you're open to seeing alternative causes/explanations, you'll see them. And if you're not, you won't. No matter how much evidence might amass.

I love how thoughtful your posts are. I see you all up and down lots of threads leaving helpful commentary and advice; and breathing in new life to the hair side which can sometimes get a lil bit stale

When I wear a wig or crochet braids, I do feel different. I feel completely free/me when I wear my own hair.

The mechanism of "growing hands" might just be skill and nothing spiritual -- I don't know. But salon visits with this stylist felt amazing.

I'm finally getting there, and I definitely owe it to the support, information, wisdom, and encouragement at this forum. I'm very grateful and try to share liberally in return.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

Do you think you could describe how you feel different with weave? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I think "growing hands" is definitely a spiritual phenomenon and not skill. But I also think that it's one of those things where if you're not open to it, or are inclined to only acknowledge logical evidence, that's all you'll see. Kinda like the topic of discussion. I think perception shapes your reality instead of the reverse.
If you're open to seeing alternative causes/explanations, you'll see them. And if you're not, you won't. No matter how much evidence might amass.

I love how thoughtful your posts are. I see you all up and down lots of threads leaving helpful commentary and advice; and breathing in new life to the hair side which can sometimes get a lil bit stale

Aw, thanks.

Two stories:

(1)
Well, one time I wore some individual box braids. It was a long time ago and was because my life was crazy busy and I needed to not do my hair at all. Like literally just wake up and go.

I felt very strange in them. Not myself. Like there was "something on me . . . on my head." Like I was not doing my own self.

As I was walking around with the hair on my head, I felt like I could FEEL it. At the roots. On me. Extra-to-me. The hair was a thing on me.

(2)
Recently while I was trying to grow out my natural hair from awkward length, I wore crochet braids. It was wavy hair, maybe 3a or around there. It just did not feel authentic. Not because of the curl pattern or anything. And, I wasn't as aware of it all the time like those box braids, but I felt like I was presenting a pretend self. I felt like I was NOT being comfortable with my own hair. I felt like I was wearing PLASTIC hair that eventually was going to need to be addressed! I mean, you can't just wear the same crochet install indefinitely. And something about that feels significant to me. Like a "see there. This is not you/yours. Time's a tickin'! You are only going to be able to get so much wear out of this hair."

Of course it's not that serious, and I know that. But I am very conscious of all of that when I wear braids.

I also felt a little extra when I was wearing the very long crochet install. I doubt I'll EVER feel extra when I'm wearing my own hair, no matter HOW LONG it falls.

 

[I Am So Blessed]

Aw, thanks.

Two stories:

(1)
Well, one time I wore some individual box braids. It was a long time ago and was because my life was crazy busy and I needed to not do my hair at all. Like literally just wake up and go.

I felt very strange in them. Not myself. Like there was "something on me . . . on my head." Like I was not doing my own self.

As I was walking around with the hair on my head, I felt like I could FEEL it. At the roots. On me. Extra-to-me. The hair was a thing on me.

(2)
Recently while I was trying to grow out my natural hair from awkward length, I wore crochet braids. It was wavy hair, maybe 3a or around there. It just did not feel authentic. Not because of the curl pattern or anything. And, I wasn't as aware of it all the time like those box braids, but I felt like I was presenting a pretend self. I felt like I was NOT being comfortable with my own hair. I felt like I was wearing PLASTIC hair that eventually was going to need to be addressed! I mean, you can't just wear the same crochet install indefinitely. And something about that feels significant to me. Like a "see there. This is not you/yours. Time's a tickin'! You are only going to be able to get so much wear out of this hair."

Of course it's not that serious, and I know that. But I am very conscious of all of that when I wear braids.

I also felt a little extra when I was wearing the very long crochet install. I doubt I'll EVER feel extra when I'm wearing my own hair, no matter HOW LONG it falls.

I understand this. This how I felt about wearing makeup.

 

[kxlot79]

So true!!!
I even see hair being used as a smokescreen for trouble in relationships. My acquaintances will tell me how their SO will attack their hair or lack thereof to control them, to make them feel unbalanced or put them in their place. I'm thinking of this Kermit meme about having your wig snatched off in the middle of an argument...

Interestingly, when I worked at Hair Club For Men, I was floored by how much men let their lack of hair affect their confidence. Many were quite wealthy or downright handsome or both. But I think the relationship/dating issues they had were more to do with their internalization of feeling deficient or inferior in some way due to losing/not having hair rather than the loss of hair itself.

When you have lots of it, then it's just hair. When you trying to grow it, then its something else.

 

[kxlot79]

..............

 

[I Am So Blessed]

..............

Awww.

This got to me. If this happened to me I'd go into a prayer closet. Vengeance is the Lord's.

 

[kxlot79]

You good. Cause I'd probably be on my way to jail.

Awww.

This got to me. If this happened to me I'd go into a prayer closet. Vengeance is the Lord's.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

You good. Cause I'd probably be on my way to jail.

Amen and amen.

 

[I Am So Blessed]

You good. Cause I'd probably be on my way to jail.

 

[NatrulyMe]

I understand everybody's point of view. Also, I am a subscriber of AfrikanHairGod on YouTube and watched his video when it was first made. This topic is definitely something to think about. I believe it DOES depend on one's life situation, culture, mindset (upbringing of low self-esteem) and religion.

Truthfully, I never felt like wearing a wig and or extensions (weave) were appealing. Others may feel differently. For e.g. my twin sister and I grew up with decent length of hair, (my sister's shoulder length and mine was at bra strap) but she always felt that long hair and weave defined beauty. On the other hand, I could care less about how long others or my hair were...When I got older, I went to a salon and got it chopped off. I worn the "Halle Berry" hair cut for years. Now I am older, I am aiming for hair length. Moreover, I'm aiming for a healthy mane. Overall, I became natural because of damage from using chemicals (perm and permanent hair dye) for years and it thinned my edges (Okay, I was bald).

 

[NatrulyMe]

BTW, my sister freaked when I big chopped (although my hair wasn't long when I cut it off). She even said that I looked like a lesbian. Anyways, once she saw my process during my first couple of months, she transitioned and became natural. It shocked me because she was always into long hair.