"Cursed be Caanan" -- The Castration of Noah

[Crown]

In the 27 plus years of my Salvation, I've heard more versions (theories) of Noah, Ham and Canaan then i can count on one hand.

A few:

* Ham saw Noah having sex with his wife (Ham's mom)

Which seemed 'right'... when applied to the scripture from Leviticus 20 ...

* Ham accidentally saw his father drunk and naked. Noah woke up embarrassed and cursed him.

* Another theory is that Ham had a homosexual incounter with his father, Noah...

I never bought that one...

The best source is the Hebrew context ...

Ham did something that the text (Genesis 9:22) refers to as “seeing his father’s nakedness.” Then, Noah awakens and utters a dreadful curse against Canaan.

And he said, “Cursed is Canaan...”
(Genesis 9:25)

Why would Noah punish Ham’s fourth son rather than the miscreant himself? How did a sleeping Noah even know what Ham did?

Ancient Jewish wisdom teaches that the Torah uses euphemistic language.

As I read the words ... "Then Noah awakens...."

If Ham had witnessed Noah having sex with his wife, what would Noah be asleep? How indeed would he know that Ham had witnessed the act of sex? Does it say that Noah's wife told Noah that Ham saw them?

How could Noah have sex while he was asleep?

Ham uncovered his father's nakedness...

"To Uncover" also means just that... to see one naked. It's not solely seeing one in the act of sex.

Ham did something more than see his father Noah naked... he did something more to hurt him. He took away his ability to be fruitful and multiply.

----

I have to produce the entire message. If I'm not mistaken I may be able to download it.

Am I out to convince others to believe what I believe?

Nooooooooooo .... No, not at all. That's not right.

I just know that all of these years of hearing one theory after another about Ham and Noah... something finally makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm just sharing. No disputes on what others believe. I'm just sharing.

Blessings and I truly mean this.

Thank you, dear! I wish the same to you.

1- You don’t accept the definition given by the Bible concerning : uncovering the nakedness, but you agree with the theory guessing that Noah was castrated, which is found nowhere in the text ?

2- This theory about a possible castration does not explain why Canaan was cursed, but not Ham.

3- Ham was not the youngest son of Noah, but the second, so the theory :
youngest son of Noah (Ham) / youngest son of Ham (Canaan) is not true.

4- Youngest son is not a specific term identifying The youngest son of Noah, but the youngest of his descendants at this time (Canaan).

Finally, I posted just to give an alternative at this story of castration and the question about how Black people is related.

[FONT=&quot]We can agree to disagree.[/FONT]

 

[Shimmie]

Wow at the tone of your post and your judgmental comments toward me because I do not agree with your interpretation....

enough said....carry on.....

Pebbles, please don't do that. Please don't take this as a personal attack or tone against you. It's not. I have no contempt in my heart towards you and I never will.

If you truly read what I've shared, it's the issue of our Black community that I am speaking so strongly against. Who wouldn't. Things in our race have not gotten any better. Each time one Black person moves up, 5 move back. Why is that?

Each of my children are blessed and do not live in poverty. God indeed brought us out of it. Yet, why are there still in this lifetime of increased technology, an increase in access to knowledge and education, why is it that our Black community have more and more Blacks who are failing?

So if my post has a 'tone' in it, it is because I care about what's going on with us? How much further down do we as a race have to go?

My family and I were driving through a neighborhood few weeks ago and noticed one Church after another and on the corners there were still dealers of drugs, boys with their pants dropped to their knees, girls with outfits small enough to fit a Barbie doll.

Why?

Tell me why?

Why have these Churches not broken down this barrier of something that is not a blessing?

The opposite of blessing is what ........... ?

We can't get offended with each other. For that too is not a blessing.

We have to face it PinkPebbles.... our race is not living in the blessings which God has called us to.

Why?

With all of the knowledge of scripture and confessing of such and going to Church and Praising God and all the things we do....

Why?

My heart is not against you, it's against the curse that has hovered over our Black race long enough.

Everyday more 'mess' comes up holding the Black community down.

It's a syndrome. As one 'Black' prospers ... five go down. 'We' live in the worse neighborhoods, the mindset of the Black community is not one of one who is blessed.

Why?

The entire time I've responded, my 'tone' is calm.

I'm not out to 'carry on'... I'm listening to what God is trying to tell me ... the answer to 'Why'.

 

[Shimmie]

Thank you, dear! I wish the same to you.

1- You don’t accept the definition given by the Bible concerning : uncovering the nakedness, but you agree with the theory guessing that Noah was castrated, which is found nowhere in the text ?

2- This theory about a possible castration does not explain why Canaan was cursed, but not Ham.

3- Ham was not the youngest son of Noah, but the second, so the theory :
youngest son of Noah (Ham) / youngest son of Ham (Canaan) is not true.

4- Youngest son is not a specific term identifying The youngest son of Noah, but the youngest of his descendants at this time (Canaan).

Finally, I posted just to give an alternative at this story of castration and the question about how Black people is related.

[FONT=&quot]We can agree to disagree.[/FONT]

Thanks Crown... no contention with me as well.

Also I don't disagree in the sense of 'forum' cliche'. As my sister in Christ I do not and will not see us as 'disagreeable.

There are simply a lot of unanswered questions that connect to us as a people 'Black' and until we uncover the nakedness of them, our Black Heritage will always be in bondage.

No disagreement... Somehow these topic has a misunderstanding and it will be cleared up, because the truth behind it is not going away.

I know God's word as I've read it and learned it. Something in our Biblical Black history is amiss and what we've done so far as Black Christians has not helped, for we each have family members, loved ones, friends, neighbors... 'Black' who are not living blessed.

Why has satan been allowed to steal so much from us starting with the sons, husbands, fathers? It's as if we are waving the flies from one area to another, and never truly getting rid of them.

Why?

I can't afford to disagree with you as my sister in Christ? Being Black still hasn't helped us as a whole even in our Churches. And there is a link (an answer) in what I've shared in this thread.

Blessings and please take care in all of this heat. We currently have 107 with an index of 121 ...

 

[Crown]

Thanks Crown... no contention with me as well.

Also I don't disagree in the sense of 'forum' cliche'. As my sister in Christ I do not and will not see us as 'disagreeable.

There are simply a lot of unanswered questions that connect to us as a people 'Black' and until we uncover the nakedness of them, our Black Heritage will always be in bondage.

No disagreement... Somehow these topic has a misunderstanding and it will be cleared up, because the truth behind it is not going away.

I know God's word as I've read it and learned it. Something in our Biblical Black history is amiss and what we've done so far as Black Christians has not helped, for we each have family members, loved ones, friends, neighbors... 'Black' who are not living blessed.

Why has satan been allowed to steal so much from us starting with the sons, husbands, fathers? It's as if we are waving the flies from one area to another, and never truly getting rid of them.

Why?

I can't afford to disagree with you as my sister in Christ? Being Black still hasn't helped us as a whole even in our Churches. And there is a link (an answer) in what I've shared in this thread.

Blessings and please take care in all of this heat. We currently have 107 with an index of 121 ...

Bold : I understand this, and it's profound!
The sins of the father, inter-generational curse, unless someone is redeemed and under the blood of the perfect Lamb of God.
If the author wanted to discuss this subject why not do it properly in all truth?

I disagree when someone is making up theory with no scriptural evidence, not one, like the castration of Noah.

There is also no evidence that Canaan was the father of Black people.

You said that the Rabbi said :
it's the sins of the 'father' (Abraham's sin) which has followed throughout the generations of the children he had by a Black Nigerian Woman, named Keturah.

What's the real problem, here :
The sin of Abraham, a Semite (from Shem), chosen by God ?
or
The blackness of Keturah ?

Anyway, this will help someone prove all things.

Blessings, Shimmie !

 

[Guitarhero]

Shimmie -

My confusion took place in Post #15 with the interpretation on how Abraham's sins have a direct effect on the African American community. I interpreted your post to infer that African Americans are cursed due to Abraham's decision to send his sons away rather than establish a father - son relationship.

I do not believe that a race of people can be cursed by their father or forefather's sins based on the scriptures I previously posted.

Many spiritual and religious leaders are quick to call a race of people cursed, but in actuality it's bad habits that have been passed down from one generation to the next due to lack of knowledge and exposure to a better quality of life.

The word cursed is synonymous to death, hopelessness, and punished throughout eternity; therefore, I refuse to believe that African Americans are cursed. Our race is not helpless or hopeless and it has been proven that we are well able to succeed in every aspect of life when we educate ourselves, and end unproductive habits.

Well, that would have to be expanded to the Blacks of all the Americas, not just AA's. But I agree. When you look at Africa, they might have hardships, but they are not "enslaved" in the same sense. It was a matter of politics and economics. Many races have been enslaved in the world. Seriously, if I have to compare, I'd say Native people fit the bill, for realz. There is no comparison in many cases.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Shimmie...I am so happy that you have put this here. I think its going to allow many of us to seek out the Lord to inquire of Him regarding this. If this was important enough for Him to put in the scriptures, then its important enough to find out. Thank you, sis...

This is going to take some time to study. I have spoken at length about this with my very close friend who is a pastor and she had started this study, not to long ago. We've been talking for 2 hours about it and this is certainly something to ponder upon.

Before anyone should say that this is NOT correct, let us take our time and study it.
"Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

Let's ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truth of the matter and then why we need to understand it.
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you." John 16:7, 12-15

May we come together in this forum so that the Glory of the Lord will be revealed and His Kingdom established as is His intentions for us as believers in Jesus Christ!
What is the glory of God? Moses asked God to show him His glory, and God said "that His GLORY is His GOODNESS." (see Ex. 33:17-19)

Let us ask God for His infinite wisdom in the matter!
"If any of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask of [a]the giving God [Who gives] to everyone liberally and ungrudgingly, without reproaching or faultfinding, and it will be given him." James 1:5 AMP

Love always.....

N&W

 

[Guitarhero]

So the purpose of this is the explain why Black people have it so hard? Granted, to put a dent in G-d's command, "pru urvu" or to be fruitful and multiply, through castration would be a hard hit, indeed. The fact that you are believing the writings or the Talmud is even a bigger miracle... I'm surprised...but it's a good thing.

Question:

What does anyone feel about the bible geared towards Black people? I don't know the particular name of it but I've heard of it. It's purpose was to explain the Black presence in scriptures for those of us today who have been lied to or misguided about their inclusion.

 

[Shimmie]

Bold : I understand this, and it's profound!
The sins of the father, inter-generational curse, unless someone is redeemed and under the blood of the perfect Lamb of God.
If the author wanted to discuss this subject why not do it properly in all truth?

I disagree when someone is making up theory with no scriptural evidence, not one, like the castration of Noah.

There is also no evidence that Canaan was the father of Black people.

You said that the Rabbi said :
it's the sins of the 'father' (Abraham's sin) which has followed throughout the generations of the children he had by a Black Nigerian Woman, named Keturah.

What's the real problem, here :
The sin of Abraham, a Semite (from Shem), chosen by God ?
or
The blackness of Keturah ?

Anyway, this will help someone prove all things.

Blessings, Shimmie !

Crown...

Thanks Crown, again there is no contention or discord with you; this isn't worth it over a thread topic or anything. Discussions are just that, discussions over life's topics and theories.

Oh! When I mentioned the sins of Abraham, I was referring to Hagar as he sinned by sleeping with a woman other than Sarah, his wife which resulted with a child (Ishmael) who only ended up alienated from his father. He didn't 'believe' God's promise of having a son with Sarah and yielded to his flesh and his understanding as well.

In addition, Abraham sent away his sons of Keturah resulting in more alienation of sons from their father. That's sin to abandon one's child.

Somehow, this 'pattern' of children separated / abandoned by their fathers is prominent in the Black culture. Why us? Why our race?

Anyway, that's what I mean by the sins of Abraham. Okay?


Hmmmm, I just thought of something... :scratchch:

Sarah and Eve did something very similar...

It was Eve who gave the 'forbidden fruit' to Adam to eat; resulting in the birth of 'sin', the consequences , as we all know, were a disaster.

It was Sarah who gave her slave (another for of forbidden fruit) to Abraham which resulted in the birth of another dire consequence.

Just a thought.

I'm just logging back on for a minute. The reason?

Laundry ... getting it over with and the rest of ths weekend is 'free'.

Please take care and please stay cool and safe from this very hot weather.

Back to one more post and then the laundry.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie...I am so happy that you have put this here. I think its going to allow many of us to seek out the Lord to inquire of Him regarding this. If this was important enough for Him to put in the scriptures, then its important enough to find out. Thank you, sis...

This is going to take some time to study. I have spoken at length about this with my very close friend who is a pastor and she had started this study, not to long ago. We've been talking for 2 hours about it and this is certainly something to ponder upon.

Before anyone should say that this is NOT correct, let us take our time and study it.
"Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

Let's ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truth of the matter and then why we need to understand it.
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you." John 16:7, 12-15

May we come together in this forum so that the Glory of the Lord will be revealed and His Kingdom established as is His intentions for us as believers in Jesus Christ!
What is the glory of God? Moses asked God to show him His glory, and God said "that His GLORY is His GOODNESS." (see Ex. 33:17-19)

Let us ask God for His infinite wisdom in the matter!
"If any of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask of [a]the giving God [Who gives] to everyone liberally and ungrudgingly, without reproaching or faultfinding, and it will be given him." James 1:5 AMP

Love always.....

N&W

Beautiful post, Precious Wavy...

This 'subject' is being opened up all around in many Churches and community leaders, regarding our Black community. Why with so much opportunity for better, is the Black community not prospering in all of life's advantages.

And we cannot blame the economy, as the hindrance to the Black Community's thriving, let alone surviving. What is with this increase of poverty and lack of education? It's beyond the Church.

In our Black culture, there are many 'Blessed Individuals' but as a 'whole', the Blessings are not universal among Blacks. It's just not.

God is speaking to us to wake up. We have to be whole as a culture. We have to kill the root of every curse that has followed the generations of our rich heritage.

Do you know that the fight for civil rights for gays, has exceeded ... bypassed the civil and human rights................for Blacks. Look who's prospering. And it's not the Black community.

Anytime a 'sin' has more success in prospering than a culture of people who 'made' this country, and literally upon their backs as slaves, something is not right; something is amiss.

Pastor 'Wavy' God is speaking to us, and we have to listen. As a whole, God is trying to restore us. Although there are those of us who are living the blessed life, the rest of us are not whole.

As God heard the cries of the children of Isreal from years of slavery and delivered them from Pharoah, so has God heard the cries of the Saints who have fasted and prayed and layed before the Lord in intercession in tears and earntest prayer to save their loved ones, to save the children, to save the fathers, bring their sons out of prison.

To set their sons and daughters straight in Godly sexuality, deliver their daughters from pimps and pimpettes, from drugs and bloodshed, to remove the names of the sons from stray or aimed bullets, to heal the sick minds and bodies, to see them walk in the paths of God's righteousness for His namesake, delivering them 'all' from all evil, leading them not into temptation.

That they may walk in the blessings of the Lord and not under a curse, and to dwell in the house of the Lord, forever and ever... Amen.

Father God in all of Heaven and Earth... Please open our eyes that we will see, all that you are speaking and calling us to be. "Whole" and Free in and with You. In the name and holiness of our Lord and Saviour, His name is Jesus... Our Lord forever and ever. Amen.



To eliminate a curse over the Black culture is to face it head on and do away with it, once and for all. It's has to obey the presence of the Lord.

 

[Shimmie]

So the purpose of this is the explain why Black people have it so hard? Granted, to put a dent in G-d's command, "pru urvu" or to be fruitful and multiply, through castration would be a hard hit, indeed. The fact that you are believing the writings or the Talmud is even a bigger miracle... I'm surprised...but it's a good thing.

Question:

What does anyone feel about the bible geared towards Black people? I don't know the particular name of it but I've heard of it. It's purpose was to explain the Black presence in scriptures for those of us today who have been lied to or misguided about their inclusion.

I've studied Ancient Jewish history and of course the Talmud for a while. One way or another, it leads to Jesus.

Blessings ... :Rose:

 

[Crown]

Racism is so subtle sometimes, even a victim can applaud its perpetrator.

I don't allow any non-Black to speak about Black people in saying that we are cursed.

 

[Crown]

@Crown...

Thanks Crown, again there is no contention or discord with you; this isn't worth it over a thread topic or anything. Discussions are just that, discussions over life's topics and theories.

Oh! When I mentioned the sins of Abraham, I was referring to Hagar as he sinned by sleeping with a woman other than Sarah, his wife which resulted with a child (Ishmael) who only ended up alienated from his father. He didn't 'believe' God's promise of having a son with Sarah and yielded to his flesh and his understanding as well.

In addition, Abraham sent away his sons of Keturah resulting in more alienation of sons from their father. That's sin to abandon one's child.

Somehow, this 'pattern' of children separated / abandoned by their fathers is prominent in the Black culture. Why us? Why our race?

Anyway, that's what I mean by the sins of Abraham. Okay?


Hmmmm, I just thought of something... :scratchch:

Sarah and Eve did something very similar...

It was Eve who gave the 'forbidden fruit' to Adam to eat; resulting in the birth of 'sin', the consequences , as we all know, were a disaster.

It was Sarah who gave her slave (another for of forbidden fruit) to Abraham which resulted in the birth of another dire consequence.

Just a thought.

I'm just logging back on for a minute. The reason?

Laundry ... getting it over with and the rest of ths weekend is 'free'.

Please take care and please stay cool and safe from this very hot weather.

Back to one more post and then the laundry.

Don't take it personal, I don't share the opinion of the author, we can disagree without contention.

The Bible has already told us what happened and warned us not to add!

Lev. 18.6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD. 18.7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 18.8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 18.9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. 18.10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. 18.11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 18.12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

18.15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 18.16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness. 18.17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness. 18.18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
18.19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness. 18.20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

20.11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness...

Ez. 22.9 In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness. 22.10 In thee have they discovered their fathers' nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution. 22.11 And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour's wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father's daughter.

Hab. 2.15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! 2.16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

Whether this lady was the wife or a granddaughter... of Noah, and maybe in order to be fruitful, 2 situations :

*Ham did this abominable act and Canaan was the fruit in the womb (Noah prophesied).

*Canaan, the son of Ham, did this abomination, with the consent of Ham.

Why would we want more than that?

 

[Crown]

Hmmmm, I just thought of something... :scratchch:

Sarah and Eve did something very similar...

It was Eve who gave the 'forbidden fruit' to Adam to eat; resulting in the birth of 'sin', the consequences , as we all know, were a disaster.

It was Sarah who gave her slave (another for of forbidden fruit) to Abraham which resulted in the birth of another dire consequence.

Just a thought.

More than a thought!
I totally agree with you on this.

 

[Shimmie]

Racism is so subtle sometimes, even a victim can applaud its perpetrator.

I don't allow any non-Black to speak about Black people in saying that we are cursed.

I agree, 'Racism' can be subtle and actually just plain 'blatant'.

However, racism or not our African American culture/family has a problem which cannot be ignored and unless we face it, it's not going away. We can allow ourselves to be offended by what others say and do toward or against us. No matter what anyone says, African Americans are not living the blessed life which God redeemed us into.

What's really, really sad....

While we're 'quoting' / posting scripture, the devil is having a hayday in the African American community.... The Black Heritage of which we Black Christians are a part of.

Something...................... is not right.

Blacks lead in AIDS/HIV

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/pdf/aa.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6004a2.htm?s_cid=mm6004a2_w

African Americans financial achievements...

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/pdf/aa.pdf

http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Racial-Wealth-Gap-Press-Release.pdf

Unwed Mothers...

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/the_state_of_black_america_news/23335

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/moving_america_news/29688

Preliminary census estimates also show the share of African-American households headed by women — mostly single mothers — now exceeds African-American households with married couples, reflecting the trend of declining U.S. marriages overall.

The findings, based on the latest government data, offer a preview of final 2010 census results being released this summer that provide detailed breakdowns by age, race and household relationships

African American Marriages

http://www.healthymarriageinfo.org/marriage-and-culture/african-americans-and-the-black-community

Marriage has become less common among African Americans. According to the U.S. Census, African American households are the least likely to contain a married couple, compared to other racial/ethnic groups. Similarly, an African American child is three times more likely to be born out of wedlock than a white child and, on average, will spend only six years in a two-parent family compared with fourteen years for a white child and thirteen years for a Hispanic child. However, surveys indicate a high value placed on marriage among African Americans.

Marriage in the African American community appears to vary based on educational attainment and income, especially among men as potential marriage partners for African American women. Marriage appears to contribute greatly to the economic well-being of African-American families.

Crime, Prison and Drugs...

http://www.peace.ca/truthaboutblackcrime.htm

Among men, blacks (28.5%) are about six times more likely than whites (4.4%) to be admitted to prison during their life. Among women, 3.6% of blacks and 0.5% of whites will enter prison at least once. (U.S. Department of Justice)

Based on current rates of incarceration, an estimated 7.9% of black males
compared to 0.7% of white males will enter State of Federal prison by the
time they are age 20 and 21.4% of black males versus 1.4% of white males will be incarcerated by age 30. (U.S. Department of Justice)

Some have noted that more black men are in prison in America than are in
college. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)

----

The National Institute of Drug Abuse estimated that while 12 percent of drug
users are black, they make up nearly 50 percent of all drug possession
arrests in the U.S. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)

According to the National Drug Strategy Network, although African Americans
make up less than one-third of the population in Georgia, the black arrest
rate for drugs is five times greater than the white arrest rate. In addition,
since 1990, African Americans have accounted for more than 75% of persons
incarcerated for drug offenses in Georgia and make up 97.7% of the people in
that state who are given life sentences for drug offenses.

African American Education

Our Black Males

http://www.cgcs.org/publications/Call_For_Change.pdf

----
I could post for days...

Just looking at our Black community speaks volumes and it's screaming at our culture. Getting angry or being offended is not going to help or change anything. We can't put our heads in the sand neither can we puff up and say, I'm not letting anybody say there's a curse on Blacks.

We don't have to let anyone say it. The evidence of it is clear enough.

There is a serious problem among our race. As a 'Whole' Blacks are not living the Blessed Life of God's Redemption.

As the Church of God, if we do not face it, we can never conquer it with our faith and as a whole, live the blessed life which God has ordained for us.

It's not going to change until we allow God to speak to us and even more important, we 'listen' to Him.

 

[Guitarhero]

Are people not living a redeemed life because they are of another religion? Of those that are christians, how many have been the direct ancestors of the slave trade? Is the slave trade and it's effects throughout generations, then, the culprit? Of those who are devout christians and experiencing hardship which is not their fault, why does G-d not look at their devoutness and bless them anyway according to His scriptures? Why are Blacks being singled out as only receiving the "blessing" as a whole rather than individualistically?

As far as Ham is concerned, the Blacks in my family come through Shem. Shrugs. We're Davidic and I have the proof. I have govt. documents, histories, lineages and etc. Shrugs. What about the mixed-races? Does G-d determine me only Black according to man who uses such categorizations to hold people under oppression? Did not G-d make me His creation and I'm a mixed bag? This would seem to point to the racist nature of G-d, then - that He has made everybody else who doesn't have a kinky curl nor a certain kinda brown skin tone as less than others.

Now, what about those who do excel (who are considered true Blacks)? As far as Canaanites, I do know they were Black but were not the only ones. It wasn't about race, though. I think I sent in a video of modern-day Canaanites. Some like to say they were slaves...but they don't have this history in their own tradition.

Anyway, can you respond to these points? Are you saying that Blacks are Jews or something? Babylon and the diaspora has already taken place and various other enslavements in Asia. It has been written about in Isaiah about transatlantic slavery in scripture but there was no judgment about wrongdoing mentioned, nor curses.

As far as listening to G-d? I'm blessed and I listen to Him. Sometimes I fail...but I'm overall blessed physically, financially, spiritually and emotionally as well as being educated from a family of educated. I don't get this curse on "me" because I don't listen to G-d. If anything, I think that it's the economics and social problems resulting from the economic system of transatlantic slavery. When I look at primitive "Black" civilizations, they are doing well. It isn't until they have white contact that they begin to lose everything. What about all the denominations of Black people...how will they listen together to G-d in the same way?

 

[Guitarhero]

I could post for days...

Just looking at our Black community speaks volumes and it's screaming at our culture. Getting angry or being offended is not going to help or change anything. We can't put our heads in the sand neither can we puff up and say, I'm not letting anybody say there's a curse on Blacks.

We don't have to let anyone say it. The evidence of it is clear enough.

There is a serious problem among our race. As a 'Whole' Blacks are not living the Blessed Life of God's Redemption.

I don't think people are angry, they are just asking questions so please do not take offense. But of those "AA's" who are living badly, what about those who do not? Does G-d curse them anyway? Are white people truly better in behavior, evidenced by their blessings? Hispanics in this country and down throughout the Caribbean to S. America? They have suffered more and longer than AA's. At least we have civil rights we can fight for. In many cases, they do not. Does G-d's curse apply to them as well? Of those Hispanics who are considered Black, are the effects of slavery directly related throughout the generations? And for Indians as well?

I think that some people are trying to figure out if this line of thinking and interpretation is utilizing the racist biblical interpretation to justify modern-day social problems. Does not G-d ask US to correct the injustices of the world by being just?

 

[Guitarhero]

More than a thought!
I totally agree with you on this.

The banishment didn't occur when Eve gave the fruit, it's when Adam ate of it.

 

[Crown]

----
I could post for days...

Just looking at our Black community speaks volumes and it's screaming at our culture. Getting angry or being offended is not going to help or change anything. We can't put our heads in the sand neither can we puff up and say, I'm not letting anybody say there's a curse on Blacks.

We don't have to let anyone say it. The evidence of it is clear enough.

There is a serious problem among our race. As a 'Whole' Blacks are not living the Blessed Life of God's Redemption.

As the Church of God, if we do not face it, we can never conquer it with our faith and as a whole, live the blessed life which God has ordained for us.

It's not going to change until we allow God to speak to us and even more important, we 'listen' to Him.

I am not angry and I am not offended.

This person starts with a very hypothetical theory of castration (found nowhere in the Bible) to trying to put a curse over a large and diversified group of individuals, not directly connected to the cursed person.

I disagree with this theory.

I am not against the Rabbi. I disagree with his theory, it's just that : a human and very questionable theory. And I am questioning his motives.

We have to do what the Bible said : prove all things and hold fast that which is good (1Thes. 5:21). No need for a specific revelation when the answer is already in the Scriptures. We just have to behave like the Bereans : with prayer, search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so (Acts 17:11).

Again, I am not angry, not offended, not contentious... Please, don't put emotions on me when I speak for the truth. I hope that you understand my point of view now, please don't take it personal cause it is not. Even if you were the author, I can disagree with your point of view and still love you (fellowship and respect).

 

[Crown]

The banishment didn't occur when Eve gave the fruit, it's when Adam ate of it.

I think we were talking about vessel.

As woman, we can be a vessel of honor or of dishonor for our man.

Eve gave the fruit to Adam. Sarah gave her servant to Abraham. Job's wife advised him to curse God and die.
Adam ate the fruit. Abraham consumed. Job resisted.

Job 2.9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 2.10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

We have to be very careful about what we ask our husband to do.

 

[Guitarhero]

I think we were talking about vessel.

As woman, we can be a vessel of honor or of dishonor for our man.

Eve gave the fruit to Adam. Sarah gave her servant to Abraham. Job's wife advised him to curse God and die.
Adam ate the fruit. Abraham consumed. Job resisted.

Job 2.9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 2.10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

We have to be very careful about what we ask our husband to do.

Thanks!!!!

 

[Laela]

That is the kind of thinking (racism) that twists Scripture. Historically, preachers and slaveholders have erroneously used the cursing of Ham to justify slavery -- using the Bible. They'd overlook that Noah cursed Canaan, because he couldn't curse Ham, since Ham had been blessed by God. Whom God blesses NO MAN can curse. My understanding is the generation curse was built-in because of Ham's sin/abomination by uncovering his father's nakedness (which, according to scripture is to have sex with one's father's wife). I don't get the castration theory... either, which the Bible doesn't support.

Genesis 9
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

Redemption through Christ cannot be overlooked. Peter was told in his vision - "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Acts 10:15. So how can we believe today that an entire people is cursed?

Racism is so subtle sometimes, even a victim can applaud its perpetrator.

I don't allow any non-Black to speak about Black people in saying that we are cursed.

ITA generational curses are a result of unrepentant sins.

Shimmie -

My confusion took place in Post #15 with the interpretation on how Abraham's sins have a direct effect on the African American community. I interpreted your post to infer that African Americans are cursed due to Abraham's decision to send his sons away rather than establish a father - son relationship.

I do not believe that a race of people can be cursed by their father or forefather's sins based on the scriptures I previously posted.

Many spiritual and religious leaders are quick to call a race of people cursed, but in actuality it's bad habits that have been passed down from one generation to the next due to lack of knowledge and exposure to a better quality of life.

The word cursed is synonymous to death, hopelessness, and punished throughout eternity; therefore, I refuse to believe that African Americans are cursed. Our race is not helpless or hopeless and it has been proven that we are well able to succeed in every aspect of life when we educate ourselves, and end unproductive habits.

 

[Shimmie]

Hi Ladies...

I'm going to ask the 'Mods' to close the thread for me.

My intention was to share and not have any disagreements or contentions among us. I do not want it to be an open gate for such.

What I'm asking each of you to do is to 'Pray'. Pray for our people, our culture. Just Pray.

This concerns many of our loved ones, and the loved ones of others. Just Pray, for our entire Black Community because there's trouble headed for 'her' -- those who have been birthed through her womb and do not know the Blood covering of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

For a long time, my heart has been heavy regarding our African American Heritage 'as a whole' which is still not whole.

Although many of us as Christians live a blessed and abundant life ('Life' -- Singular), it is not extending into 'all' Christians of our Black culture nor the rest of 'our loved ones --- nor our culture as a whole.

Unrepented sin does indeed carry generational curses among 'generations' / races. Yet, ALL races have unrepented sins among them. All do.

So what's going on with our African American race, that it's not prospering as other races prosper? What is the generational sin/curse that has kept her beneath the others? Why are our male children the target of poverty imprisonment, drugs, lesser education, employment, without fathers, being stripped of their manhood punked into homosexuality with Black women supporting it?

Why? Why when men are called to be strong and to be leaders; why are our men being lead, instead, into weakness, death and destruction... as lambs into slaughter without resistance?

The weakened state that our race is currently in, only makes her more vunerable to the attacks which are planned against her ahead.

I care. I care enough to find out what it is and to come against it. So many of our people are suffering due to a consequence of an 'unknown' curse (if your will) and do not understand why.

We have a thread in this forum entitled, "God Hates Me". Why? When we know from personal experience and from God's Word that this is not true.

Yet there is something going on beneath this member's cry and the cries of other's in our culture, for help that needs to be uncovered.

I pray for so many people; pray requests come to me by the scores; thousands are iterally in my PM box as well as my personal emails at home.

God's love and encouragement flows from my heart with each prayer I pray and with each post I'm made in this forum.

However, there's a stir in my heart that there's more going on; that there's a hidden element behind every prayer request that needs to be addressed; and most of it is tied to something that was pronounced over our generation times back and it needs to be broken, for it is high time that we become the 'head and not the tail, above only and not beneath.

The answers are coming together for God does not wish that any of us should perish neither be ignorant.

As the answers come, I will post. Most of all, I will continue in prayer for 'her', our African Heritage who deserves to have the blessed life Jesus died to give her.

In Love and Peace and nothing less,

Shimmie...