Creationism & Evolution

goldielocs

New Member
Hello all,

My husband and I recently began homeschooling for a combination of reasons and one of them had to do with religion. Our curriculum includes Bible reading and scripture memorization and learning the catechism.

My daughter is working with material for the 3rd grade and we've started talking about dinosaurs and that is where my personal beliefs have been challenged...

Before now, I've never given much thought about whether or not I believe in evolution or creationism. This experience requires me to look at both views and make a decision. Prior to now, I just took the view that the creation days were not 24 hour days and actually took millions of years. This is based on a scripture about a day to God is like a thousand years to us. Unfortunately, I read some material that threw a wrench in that theory.

If the fall of Adam and Eve introduced sin and death to the world, then how could millions of animals have lived and died before Adam and Eve were created?

I'd love to hear your viewpoints on this. I haven't decided on my views yet, but I'm praying on it.
 

moonglowdiva

New Member
This is very complicated but I will try. Evidence show us that dinosaurs really existed but it is not directly mentioned in the Bible. Now in Genesis 1:20-23 tells us that creature flying, in the sea, and land roamers were on the earth before man was established. Our time is quite different than God's time and 1 day for God is 1000 years for man. 2 Peter 3:8 tells us so. You may also want to read scriptures that are not apart of the Bible that will give much insight to creation for study purposes.

To add, I believe that if there were no sin then there would not have been any death. Death is a result of sin.

Evolution is a whole different thing. I don't practice evolution because I don't believe in it. The question that I raise is "Why did man get to this point and stopped evolving? Surely man can rise to a greater level on the evolution chart." Evolution is basically Theory that folk want to make fact. A theory is simply a conjecture.

In the KJV of the Bible, Genesis 1:28 the key word is replenish. And to me that says that something was here before Adam. I don't know what but the prefix "re" means to do again. Other version have completely omitted that from scriptures.
 
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Raspberry

New Member
The bible indicates that there was an age or ages before current creation. For example, when/where did satan and his angels fall if he was already present in the garden? What caused the earth to be without form and void "in the beginning"? What was the "face of the deep"? When was that created?

I don't have time to get into this now, but a lot of Christians shouldn't be afraid to look deeper into what the bible says about creation. The 1st chapter of Genesis wasn't meant to be a scientific document IMO but rather a general sketch of what happened to form this current world.
 

momi

Well-Known Member
The bible indicates that there was an age or ages before current creation. For example, when/where did satan and his angels fall if he was already present in the garden? What caused the earth to be without form and void "in the beginning"? What was the "face of the deep"? When was that created?

I don't have time to get into this now, but a lot of Christians shouldn't be afraid to look deeper into what the bible says about creation. The 1st chapter of Genesis wasn't meant to be a scientific document IMO but rather a general sketch of what happened to form this current world.


  • The "gap theory" holds that Job (which is the oldest book of the bible and mentions like the "Behemoth" (Job 40:15-24) and "Leviathan" (Job 41:1-34" which are thought to be the animals we call dinosaurs. I dont subscribe to it personally, I just dont think there is enough evidence to support it, but I find it interesting in a conspiracy theory sort of way.
  • Evolutionists date the earth based on the theory of evolution. They have to do this to allow for the time it would take for the "so called" evolution of animal to man to take place (even though there are no transitional forms found.
My personal view is that the dinosaurs were created when the rest of the animals were created, and only became extinct after the flood.


There is SOOO much information available for you to research. I have a few books in my library that are written on a kids level so that I could explain it to my children. They never attended public school so were not really exposed to the evolution theory on an academic level, however I felt that they needed to be armed with the truth about creation.

Congratulations on your decision to homeschool. We are responsible for our childrens education and spiritual growth.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one![b] 5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.


Here is a decent reference point:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/1999/11/05/dinosaurs-and-the-bible
 

Crown

New Member
Hello all,

...
Before now, I've never given much thought about whether or not I believe in evolution or creationism. This experience requires me to look at both views and make a decision. Prior to now, I just took the view that the creation days were not 24 hour days and actually took millions of years. This is based on a scripture about a day to God is like a thousand years to us. Unfortunately, I read some material that threw a wrench in that theory.

...

I'd love to hear your viewpoints on this. I haven't decided on my views yet, but I'm praying on it.

I was like you before these verses in Genesis hit me :

1.5 … And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1.3 … And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1.13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1.23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[FONT=&quot]1.31[FONT=&quot] …And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.[/FONT]

If it is specified the evening and the morning, it was one day. So, it is 24 hours, one week, not millions of years. I don't know how, but God is God, He can.
There is no : and the evening ... were the seven day, because the creation was complete.
[/FONT]
 

Crown

New Member
Hello all,

If the fall of Adam and Eve introduced sin and death to the world, then how could millions of animals have lived and died before Adam and Eve were created?

I'd love to hear your viewpoints on this. I haven't decided on my views yet, but I'm praying on it.

I suggest to you to study Job 40 and 41 about the behemoth and the leviathan :
Job 40.15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 40.16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 40.17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 40.18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 40.19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

41.1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? 41.2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
41.10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
[FONT=&quot]41.11[FONT=&quot] Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. 41.12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion. 41.13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? 41.14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. 41.15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. 41.16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. 41.17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. 41.18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. 41.19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. 41.20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. 41.21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. 41.22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. 41.23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved. 41.24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone. 41.25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves. 41.26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. 41.27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. 41.28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. 41.29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. 41.30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. 41.31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. 41.32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. 41.33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 41.34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.[/FONT][/FONT]
 

goldielocs

New Member
Thanks to everyone for posting. My husband and I have decided to focus on dinosaurs being created with the other animals and destroyed during the flood. This is still going to be a challenge for me because I was taught evolution so I'm reading up on some research.

My friend gave me a book called "The Case for the Creator" by Lee Strobel. Have any of you read it?

I've also been looking at a the website www.answersingenesis.org. That site has a whole lot of information about dinosaurs and creation.

Our main concern is making sure our children have a strong Christian foundation. We'll teach them about other theories later, but the truth comes first.

Let me go, I have to get her up now to start our school day. Be blessed.
 

Poohbear

Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Thanks to everyone for posting. My husband and I have decided to focus on dinosaurs being created with the other animals and destroyed during the flood. This is still going to be a challenge for me because I was taught evolution so I'm reading up on some research.

My friend gave me a book called "The Case for the Creator" by Lee Strobel. Have any of you read it?

I've also been looking at a the website www.answersingenesis.org. That site has a whole lot of information about dinosaurs and creation.

Our main concern is making sure our children have a strong Christian foundation. We'll teach them about other theories later, but the truth comes first.

Let me go, I have to get her up now to start our school day. Be blessed.
I would agree. If you think about it, when God created animals, he did not list the specific animals he created:

Genesis 1:24-25
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

And God did not list the specific animals that he destroyed in the flood:

Genesis 7:18-24
18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. 24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Hope that helps. And I also think it is very admirable that you are homeschooling your children.
 

Laela

Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Goldielocs,

All the best with teaching your child the truth... I'm not too familiar with Lee but my husband and I used to watch Dr. Carl Baugh on TV on his show, Creation Evidence. He used picture charts and everything..breaks it down really nicely, the evidence of creation. And he's very respected in his field. :yep:

Here's his Web site... http://www.creationevidence.org/

It also has a great section for Kids you may be interested in
http://75.125.60.6/~creatio1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=15

Blessings,
:rosebud:
Thanks to everyone for posting. My husband and I have decided to focus on dinosaurs being created with the other animals and destroyed during the flood. This is still going to be a challenge for me because I was taught evolution so I'm reading up on some research.

My friend gave me a book called "The Case for the Creator" by Lee Strobel. Have any of you read it?

I've also been looking at a the website www.answersingenesis.org. That site has a whole lot of information about dinosaurs and creation.

Our main concern is making sure our children have a strong Christian foundation. We'll teach them about other theories later, but the truth comes first.

Let me go, I have to get her up now to start our school day. Be blessed.
 

Poohbear

Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Thanks GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I... is it one of those books that the Catholics use? Part of the Septuagint?
 

moonglowdiva

New Member
What is the Book of Jubilees? What is it about? Who wrote it? Was it a book left out during the canonization of the Bible?
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/jubilee.htm
They, whomever, decided to choose the books of the Bible left it out for some reason or another. I believe that that was man doing.
There are also other scriptures that have been found. The Book of Enoch is reference in Jude but was left out. Enoch himsefl is mention in Genesis but his revelation was left out. I do not know why but I refuse to be ignorant to the fact.
 

GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I

New Member
Thanks GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I... is it one of those books that the Catholics use? Part of the Septuagint?

We have the hidden texts or the apocrypha. I learned that Jubilees is "Little Genesis" and is Jewish apocryphya. The original was written in Hebrew. It's canonical for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church...concerns the division of time and about the law as revealed to Moses. I plan on reading it here soon.
 

Prudent1

Well-Known Member
I would like to give you a link to Bob Dutko's website. He has excellent resources for homeschooling parents. He is very informed about evolution vs creationism and explains things in great detail. http://toptenproofs.com/
He also can be heard on many radio stations across the country. He is not afraid to discuss science and to show exactly how science validates God's word.

Top Ten Proofs...
Christianity is the Only True Religion

Evolution is Scientifically Impossible

for the Physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ

for America’s Christian Heritage

for God's existence

Dinosaurs Lived with Man (and yes, went on Noah’s Ark)

Theistic Evolution is Not Biblical

for a Young Earth (that can not be billions of years old)
 
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Prudent1

Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone for posting. My husband and I have decided to focus on dinosaurs being created with the other animals and destroyed during the flood. This is still going to be a challenge for me because I was taught evolution so I'm reading up on some research.

My friend gave me a book called "The Case for the Creator" by Lee Strobel. Have any of you read it?

I've also been looking at a the website www.answersingenesis.org. That site has a whole lot of information about dinosaurs and creation.

Our main concern is making sure our children have a strong Christian foundation. We'll teach them about other theories later, but the truth comes first.

Let me go, I have to get her up now to start our school day. Be blessed.
I have not had a chance to read Lee Strobel's book but have heard nothing but good things about it. I hope to read it soon. :yep:
 

JinaRicci

New Member
Thanks everyone for the links & book references-I would love to read some more.

Goldielocs- I think it's so wonderful how you're starting so early to make sure your kids are taught the truth. They are going to be so prepared!

In general- I just want to say on the topic of evolution- I think it's important to distinguish macro- from microevolution when we're having these discussions. Most times when ppl talk about this- only one is being referenced but for the sake of debating with evolutionists-it's important to distinguish the two.

Macroevolution we know suggests changes over time that leads to new species (monkey to man) or theistic evolution as Prudent referenced suggests that God used this process in creation. Microevolution though refers to the small changes over time within a species.

As a Christian, I believe in the creation week (6 days followed by 1 day of rest) that God describes in sufficient detail in the Bible. The Bible also provides evidence that because of sin- we are not the same today as we were in Bible times. We don't live as long for one- we're lucky to make it to 100 yrs! The effects of sin on our bodies are evident.

We also see that today as we look at people who move from one country to another-e.g. from China to US and/or adopt different lifestyles. They develop tendencies toward certain diseases (e.g. diabetes) that as a population they didn't have before. Those traits are passed on and become evident within a couple generations.

So I think there is evidence for changes within people but not to the extent that they create new people or species. God created all living things. To me it's important to understand different aspects of evolution to be prepared to have these sorts of discussions with those who don't believe in creation and may use these types of data as arguments for evolution from amoeba to man.
 

goldielocs

New Member
Hello LHCF family,

We just got in for the day, but I appreciate all the feedback. I'll check back in tonight and respond once I finish with my homework. Continue to pray for us and thanks again.
 

HeChangedMyName

Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree that time for God isn't the same for us. I think it is also important to recognize the tense in which things were spoken in the Word. I have learned that some things are spoken in present tense, past tense, and future tense.

Also there is the fact that although death affected man once sin entered, Death was not mentioned in relation to the creatures. We were made eternal in God's image, not the creatures. So there is nothing that says that the creatures were ever intended to live forever.

Genesis 1 is spoken in the present tense. Genesis 2 is a recount of what has already occured. Now to be technically fair, death did occur before Adam and Eve even experienced death. And that death was by God's hand when he killed an animal to cover their naked bodies.
 

Child0fGod

New Member
What is the Book of Jubilees? What is it about? Who wrote it? Was it a book left out during the canonization of the Bible?

be careful when reading GNOSTIC TEXTS. they are not considered sound doctrine. (research "gnostic texts" before you actually begin/if you decide to read them).

also, be careful WHO you take advice from. (I John 4:1).

always be sure to do your own research and ask God to give you the revelation thereof. some people on here have their own agenda, not after Christs. :perplexed:sad:
 

moonglowdiva

New Member
be careful when reading GNOSTIC TEXTS. they are not considered sound doctrine. (research "gnostic texts" before you actually begin/if you decide to read them).

also, be careful WHO you take advice from. (I John 4:1).

always be sure to do your own research and ask God to give you the revelation thereof. some people on here have their own agenda, not after Christs. :perplexed:sad:

Why isn't it of sound doctrine and who said so? Did man say so? Where is it written in scriptures? The purpose for mentioning the Book of Jubilees was to research it. Man (mankind) does have an agenda. He will give you just what he wants you to know and tell you that it is gospel. He never wants you to read for yourself.:perplexed
 

Aviah

Well-Known Member
Article: http://www.gotquestions.org/dinosaurs-Bible.html

Question: "What does the Bible say about dinosaurs? Are there dinosaurs in the Bible?"

Answer: The topic of dinosaurs in the Bible is part of a larger ongoing debate within the Christian community over the age of the earth, the proper interpretation of Genesis, and how to interpret the physical evidences we find all around us. Those who believe in an older age for the earth tend to agree that the Bible does not mention dinosaurs, because, according to their paradigm, dinosaurs died out millions of years before the first man ever walked the earth. The men who wrote the Bible could not have seen living dinosaurs.

Those who believe in a younger age for the earth tend to agree that the Bible does mention dinosaurs, though it never actually uses the word “dinosaur.” Instead, it uses the Hebrew word tanniyn, which is translated a few different ways in our English Bibles. Sometimes it’s “sea monster,” and sometimes it’s “serpent.” It is most commonly translated “dragon.” The tanniyn appear to have been some sort of giant reptile. These creatures are mentioned nearly thirty times in the Old Testament and were found both on land and in the water.

In addition to mentioning these giant reptiles, the Bible describes a couple of creatures in such a way that some scholars believe the writers may have been describing dinosaurs. The behemoth is said to be the mightiest of all God’s creatures, a giant whose tail is likened to a cedar tree (Job 40:15). Some scholars have tried to identify the behemoth as either an elephant or a hippopotamus. Others point out that elephants and hippopotamuses have very thin tails, nothing comparable to a cedar tree. Dinosaurs like the brachiosaurus and the diplodocus, on the other hand, had huge tails which could easily be compared to a cedar tree.

Nearly every ancient civilization has some sort of art depicting giant reptilian creatures. Petroglyphs, artifacts, and even little clay figurines found in North America resemble modern depictions of dinosaurs. Rock carvings in South America depict men riding diplodocus-like creatures and, amazingly, bear the familiar images of triceratops-like, pterodactyl-like, and tyrannosaurus rex-like creatures. Roman mosaics, Mayan pottery, and Babylonian city walls all testify to man’s trans-cultural, geographically unbounded fascination with these creatures. Sober accounts like those of Marco Polo’s Il Milione mingle with fantastic tales of treasure-hoarding beasts. In addition to the substantial amount of anthropic and historical evidences for the coexistence of dinosaurs and man, there are physical evidences, like the fossilized footprints of humans and dinosaurs found together at places in North America and West-Central Asia.

So, are there dinosaurs in the Bible? The matter is far from settled. It depends on how you interpret the available evidences and how you view the world around you. If the Bible is interpreted literally, a young earth interpretation will result, and the idea that dinosaurs and man coexisted can be accepted. If dinosaurs and human beings coexisted, what happened to the dinosaurs? While the Bible does not discuss the issue, dinosaurs likely died out sometime after the flood due to a combination of dramatic environmental shifts and the fact that they were relentlessly hunted to extinction by man.
 

Aviah

Well-Known Member
Another two from the same website:
Question: "What caused the extinction of the dinosaurs?"

Answer: The extinction of the dinosaurs is an enigma that has captivated scientists for well over a century. We find the fossilized remains of giant reptiles all over the Earth and yet we do not see any of these creatures alive today. What happened to them all?

The conventional paradigm says that they mysteriously disappeared around 65 million years ago. An assortment of explanations has been offered as to why. The two most popular hypotheses are the Impact Event Hypothesis and the Massive Volcanism Hypothesis. The first proposes that one or more asteroids struck the Earth causing a “nuclear winter” which wiped out the dinosaurs. The second blames intense volcanism for their demise. Both make note of the high concentration of Iridium (Ir) found buried in the sediments which separate the Cretaceous period from the Paleogene (known as the K-Pg boundary; formerly known as the K-T boundary), which, according to the conventional paradigm, was the period in Earth’s history during which the dinosaurs went extinct.

Both hypotheses take some of the evidence into account while ignoring some. For example, if either hypothesis is correct and there is a 60+ million year gap between man and dinosaur, how then do we explain petroglyphs and other forms of ancient art which depict humans interacting with such familiar dinosaurs as the triceratops, stegosaurus, tyrannosaurus and the sauropods (in some cases taming them and riding them around)? Moreover, fossilized dinosaur prints have been found in the same rock layers as hoof-prints and human footprints. How are we supposed to explain this within the framework of the conventional perspective? And why is that ancient cultures from every inhabited continent on the planet record interactions with giant reptiles? These creatures are commonly known to us today as “dragons” and have been collectively relegated to mythology.

But we must ask ourselves, how is it that so many isolated cultures from around the world came to share the same mythology so universally? Could there be a core historical truth to the legends? Could it be that the giant reptiles we find buried in the dirt have something to do with the giant reptiles our ancestors spoke of just centuries years ago? We believe that this is the case. The preponderance of evidence suggests to us that the conventional perspective is fundamentally flawed. Mankind appears to have collective amnesia regarding this matter, and we have effectively constituted a “scientific” paradigm to keep us in the dark.

How then do we account for the extinction of the dinosaurs? The same way we account for the extinction of the other estimated 20,000 to 2 million species which scientists believe may have gone extinct over the past century alone – a combination of climate change and the proliferation of the human species. Climatic change can be very destructive to ecosystems in general, and we tend to kill or drive out all of the major competition in particular. That is why you don't find too many other predators – lions, tigers and bears, etc – in our suburbs and cities, or even our rural communities. We are at the very top of the food chain for a reason.

In Hollywood movies like Jurassic Park we see creatures like the Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptors hunting us down and eating us alive. And no doubt, if humans and dinosaurs coexisted some of that certainly happened. But for the most part the opposite was true. We hunted them down and cooked them for dinner. In many of the legends and much of the ancient artwork that is exactly what we find—humans hunting down the giant reptiles and killing them. Lions and tigers and bears did not have it quite as bad as the dinosaurs (hence why they are still around). That is because our ancestors seemed particularly fixated on “slaying the dragon!”

So what happened to the dinosaurs? Apparently the ones that survived global climatic change got eaten by us. Some may still survive in remote areas of the world which have not yet come under our complete dominion, and there are hundreds of such sightings every year to this effect – especially from indigenous, primitive people groups in remote areas who speak to incredulous Western scientists (who naturally do not believe the natives because of their entrenched so-called “scientific” presuppositions. In our view, this is wrong. Science should be the impartial investigation of evidence without prejudice, not an arbitrary human effort to prop up flawed theoretical histories of the Earth).


Question: "What does the Bible say about Creation vs. evolution?"

Answer: It is not the purpose of this answer to present a scientific argument in the creation vs. evolution debate. For scientific arguments for creation and/or against evolution, we highly recommend Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research. The purpose of this article is to explain why, according to the Bible, the creation vs. evolution debate even exists. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.”

A key factor in the debate is that the majority of scientists who believe in evolution are also atheists or agnostics. There are some who hold to some form of theistic evolution and others who take a deistic view of God (God exists but is not involved in the world, and everything proceeds along a natural course). There are some who genuinely and honestly look at the data and arrive at the conclusion that evolution betters fits with the data. However, these represent an insignificant percentage of the scientists who advocate evolution. The vast majority of evolutionary scientists hold that life evolved entirely without any intervention of a higher being. Evolution is by definition a naturalistic science.

For atheism to be true, there must be an alternate explanation—other than a Creator—for how the universe and life came into existence. Although belief in some form of evolution predated Charles Darwin, he was the first to develop a plausible model for the process of evolution—natural selection. Darwin once identified himself as a Christian but as a result of some tragedies that took place in his life, he later renounced the Christian faith and the existence of God. Evolution was invented by an atheist. Darwin's goal was not to disprove God's existence, but that is one of the end results of the theory of evolution. Evolution is an enabler of atheism. Evolutionary scientists likely would not admit that their goal is to give an alternate explanation of the origins of life, and thereby to give a foundation for atheism, but according to the Bible, that is exactly why the theory of evolution exists.

The Bible tells us, “The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'” (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in a Creator God. “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20). According to the Bible, anyone who denies the existence of God is a fool. Why, then, are so many people, including some Christians, willing to accept that evolutionary scientists are unbiased interpreters of scientific data? According to the Bible, they are all fools! Foolishness does not imply a lack of intelligence. Most evolutionary scientists are brilliant intellectually. Foolishness indicates an inability to properly apply knowledge. Proverbs 1:7 tells us, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.”

Evolutionary scientists mock creation and/or intelligent design as unscientific and not worthy of scientific examination. In order for something to be considered a “science,” they argue, it must be able to be observed and tested; it must be “naturalistic.” Creation is by definition “supernatural.” God and the supernatural cannot be observed or tested (so the argument goes); therefore, creation and/or intelligent design cannot be considered science. Of course, neither can evolution be observed or tested, but that does not seem to be an issue with evolutionists. As a result, all data is filtered through the preconceived, presupposed, and pre-accepted theory of evolution, without alternate explanations being considered.

However, the origin of the universe and the origin of life cannot be tested or observed. Both creation and evolution are faith-based systems in regards to origins. Neither can be tested because we cannot go back billions (or thousands) of years to observe the origin of the universe or of life in the universe. Evolutionary scientists reject creation on grounds that would logically force them to also reject evolution as a scientific explanation of origins. Evolution, at least in regard to origins, does not fit the definition of “science” any more than creation does. Evolution is supposedly the only explanation of origins that can be tested; therefore, it is the only theory of origins that can be considered “scientific.” This is foolishness! Scientists who advocate evolution are rejecting a plausible theory of origins without even honestly examining its merits, because it does not fit their illogically narrow definition of “science.”

If creation is true, then there is a Creator to whom we are accountable. Evolution is an enabler for atheism. Evolution gives atheists a basis for explaining how life exists apart from a Creator God. Evolution denies the need for a God to be involved in the universe. Evolution is the “creation theory” for the religion of atheism. According to the Bible, the choice is clear. We can believe the Word of our omnipotent and omniscient God, or we can believe the illogically biased, “scientific” explanations of fools.
 

Crown

New Member
Please, be careful about your readings!

How can we be sure that these other books are God’s Will?

They said that they found the body of Jesus and his family. We know it is not true!

The book of Enoch, is it from the Enoch mentioned in Genesis or not?…

Salomon received wisdom from God. But the Bible said that the same Salomon also took many strange women and went after their gods.

Neh. 13.26 Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.

1K. 11.1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:…
11.5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
11.7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
11.14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

[FONT=&quot]Be careful![/FONT]
 

Crown

New Member
Article: http://www.gotquestions.org/dinosaurs-Bible.html

Those who believe in a younger age for the earth...

Not necessarily younger age!

The Bible begins by saying :
Gen. 1.1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
We don't know about this beginning: 1000 years? One million?... We just don't know!

The designing of the earth is young (creation), but not the age.

Another example : when God created Adam, He did not create a baby, He created a man.

So, our earth can be very old, but not the creation.
 

Poohbear

Fearfully Wonderfully Made
be careful when reading GNOSTIC TEXTS. they are not considered sound doctrine. (research "gnostic texts" before you actually begin/if you decide to read them).

also, be careful WHO you take advice from. (I John 4:1).

always be sure to do your own research and ask God to give you the revelation thereof. some people on here have their own agenda, not after Christs. :perplexed:sad:
I completely understand that, and I am very aware of texts not in the Bible not being considered sound doctrine (key word: "considered"). That's why I asked what was the Book of Jubilees, and I even mentioned whether it was a book left out during the Biblical canonization.

See, the books in the Holy Bible are a list or set of Biblical books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community, generally in Judaism or Christianity. These canonical books have been developed through debate and agreement by the religious authorities of their respective faiths. Believers consider these canonical books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and his people. Books excluded from a particular canon are considered non-canonical — however, many disputed books considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some are considered Biblical apocrypha or Deuterocanonical or fully canonical, by others.

These religious authorities are men. Not God. They were the ones who even decided what books go into the Holy Bible. They "considered" these books in the Bible as sound doctrine. They didn't say these books in the Bible "are" sound doctrine. Therefore, I feel like there's nothing wrong with reading a book that is not in the Holy Bible. Doesn't mean I have to believe in or adhere to a book that's not in the Bible. I have faith in the Holy Bible, and that possibly God righteously divided these opinions of these religious authorities back then when putting the Bible together, but I'm not about to be naive, ignorant, or unaware of other texts that have been debated and disputed. Even the Bible itself can be questioned, especially with all these different versions we have out now.
 
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JinaRicci

New Member
Poohbear- with all due respect to you and others interested in the extra books, I have to say that God is the authority on the Bible.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

We know that there is no way that 40 authors of 66 books could be in complete agreement unless they were really written by God. I don't know why these books aren't in the Bible and I think it's fair to try to determine those reasons. My personal belief though is that if God wanted these books to be part of the Bible- they would be- He is God after all.

Now I agree it is good for you (generally speaking) to be educated on other topics but the who, how, what and why matters. Everyone is not equipped to handle the same information. Sometimes, it's not necessary to comprehensively study every topic in order to understand what it's about. There's also a big difference in looking for truth vs knowledge.

There should be some guidelines as anyone attempts to do research on the extra books. Put them through the tests of a prophet.

1) Are they consistent with the Word? Isaiah 8:20
2) Who are the authors & what are their fruits? Matthew 7:20
3) Did their words come to pass? Jeremiah 28:9
4) Do they confess Jesus as God made flesh? 1 John 4:2

That being said, I think everyone who is providing caution is doing so out of love.
 

Poohbear

Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Poohbear- with all due respect to you and others interested in the extra books, I have to say that God is the authority on the Bible.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

We know that there is no way that 40 authors of 66 books could be in complete agreement unless they were really written by God. I don't know why these books aren't in the Bible and I think it's fair to try to determine those reasons. My personal belief though is that if God wanted these books to be part of the Bible- they would be- He is God after all.

Now I agree it is good for you (generally speaking) to be educated on other topics but the who, how, what and why matters. Everyone is not equipped to handle the same information. Sometimes, it's not necessary to comprehensively study every topic in order to understand what it's about. There's also a big difference in looking for truth vs knowledge.

There should be some guidelines as anyone attempts to do research on the extra books. Put them through the tests of a prophet.

1) Are they consistent with the Word? Isaiah 8:20
2) Who are the authors & what are their fruits? Matthew 7:20
3) Did their words come to pass? Jeremiah 28:9
4) Do they confess Jesus as God made flesh? 1 John 4:2

That being said, I think everyone who is providing caution is doing so out of love.
JinaRicci, I knew someone was going to throw out 2 Tim 3:16 eventually. I already know the Bible expresses this! Didn't you see where I said I had faith in the Bible?

But when you think about it further, those religious authorities are the ones that considered the book of Timothy as God-breathed Scripture.

Those books (such as the Gnostic Gospels and other texts) that were excluded from the Bible were deemed heretical or non-canonical or not authoritative as scripture by these religious authorities and groups long time ago.

Those guidelines you mentioned (the 1 through 4 questions) are still based on scriptures from the Bible. And if the Bible was so clear cut and dry, we wouldn't have all these denominations and bible versions, and disagreements on fundamentals, doctrines, and interpretation.
 
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