Deep down, do you believe that certain hair traits are attributed to being mixed?

[davisbr88]

Based on my personal observations, out of me and my friends in elementary school , the girls with the longest hair (WL+) were all dark skinned and garden variety black (myself included) with coils in the 2c-3c/4a range, whereas who were more phenotypically mixed looking had slight shorter 4b APL-BSB hair. Therefore, it struck me as odd that many people do not associate looser hair types with 100% black people, especially dark skinned black people. Nor did I associate light skin or other phenotypically mixed features with looser hair textures, because I had seen almost the exact opposite all my life.

I won't comment on the rest of this thread, but I found this very interesting. It's definitely the complete opposite where I'm from. Most of the girls in my class with looser curls and longer hair were light-skinned, and usually mixed, although I do know plenty of light-skinned, mixed women with type 4 hair. But the majority with the 2c-3c were definitely light or mixed. I knew one dark-skinned black girl with hair about 3a/3b, and EVERYONE assumed she was mixed (even though we knew and had met her black parents and black grandparents in person).
Maybe it has to do with regionalism as well?

 

[bravenewgirl87]

EllePixie: 146(+500 years of the act) years is a LOOOONG time to still be giving power to slavery.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

Braven son I get what you sayin now, thanx for the clarification

 

[bravenewgirl87]

I won't comment on the rest of this thread, but I found this very interesting. It's definitely the complete opposite where I'm from. Most of the girls in my class with looser curls and longer hair were light-skinned, and usually mixed, although I do know plenty of light-skinned, mixed women with type 4 hair. But the majority with the 2c-3c were definitely light or mixed. I knew one dark-skinned black girl with hair about 3a/3b, and EVERYONE assumed she was mixed (even though we knew and had met her black parents and black grandparents in person).
Maybe it has to do with regionalism as well?

But, just because her family looks black doesn't mean that they are.

 

[EllePixie]

I thought I made that VERY clear. Obviously I didn't so I went back and clarified.

Cool. Your initial post seemed like an entirely different monster. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[kblc06]

I won't comment on the rest of this thread, but I found this very interesting. It's definitely the complete opposite where I'm from. Most of the girls in my class with looser curls and longer hair were light-skinned, and usually mixed, although I do know plenty of light-skinned, mixed women with type 4 hair. But the majority with the 2c-3c were definitely light or mixed. I knew one dark-skinned black girl with hair about 3a/3b, and EVERYONE assumed she was mixed (even though we knew and had met her black parents and black grandparents in person).
Maybe it has to do with regionalism as well?

Perhaps...I'm from the deep South (MS), and blacks & whites were so isolated, that I never actually interacted with white children until 5th grade when I moved to a different school. As a matter of fact, I never even saw many white children out and about when I was younger. I remember thinking that perhaps they were invisible when I was about 5 or 6.

(Just for background, from grades K-4th, the school that I went to was 99.99999% black. We had 2 white teachers within the entire public school district. The white students went to a (segregationist) academy school about 1/4 of a mile away that was established when schools were desegregated in 1970. I think there may have been one Cherokee boy. And there weren't any biracial students, but perhaps students who were multigenerational mixed people of color).


@bravenewgirl87

I get what you're saying and for the most part I agree. But I'm almost certain that there is very little else besides black, especially considering the region we're from.

 

[pisceschica]

Yes I do believe hat looser hair textures amongst blacks are due to being mixed. Just because the admixture occurred 2+ generations ago doesn't mean its not going to continue to show up. The person being dark skinned doesn't make them less mixed (on a genetic level).

You don't really now how much "other" you have until you get genetic testing. I have seen dark-skinned biracial blacks and have seen lightskinned blacks whose admixtures occurred further back.

 

[davisbr88]

But, just because her family looks black doesn't mean that they are.

Oh, yeah I know. And I get what you're saying. She very well could have been. All I'm saying is, it was rare to see a dark-skinned person with loose 3 type hair. I've only seen it since joining this board other than that one girl, so I can see how our stereotype was developed. I just thought it was interesting that the OP's stereotype was the complete opposite.
Like, it's interesting to me that I barely saw the looser curls with what we presumed were full-black people, and almost always saw them with the girls that were "obviously" mixed.
I'm not making an argument. Just an observation.

 

[Keen]

Deep down, I think it really doesn't matter. Once you're born, you can't change it, so you might as well love what you got. If you want to mix it up, just get some weave....

 

[davisbr88]

Perhaps...I'm from the deep South (MS), and blacks & whites were so isolated, that I never actually interacted with white children until 5th grade when I moved to a different school. As a matter of fact, I even see many white children out and about when I was younger. I remember thinking that perhaps they were invisible when I was about 5 or 6.

(Just for background, from grades K-4th, the school that I went to was 99.99999% black. We had 2 white teachers within the entire public school district. The white students went to a (segregationist) academy school about 1/4 of a mile away that was established when schools were desegregated in 1970. I think there may have been one Cherokee boy. And there weren't any biracial students, but perhaps students who were multigenerational mixed people of color).

Very interesting. My schools were always majority black when I came to the states, but we did have a good amount of whites and other races, even though they were the minority.
Almost all of my elementary and high school teachers were white.
I had almost all black teachers in middle school.
But this is OT... lol.

 

[WantNatural]

You are making more sense to me now, although I found your first post incredibly offensive...

First...slavery ended in 1865...it wasn't that long ago. Let's be real.

Your first post implied that professing one's blackness = self hate. I don't see how this is the case. I can only speak for myself, but I love being black, and I love being light. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, unless we are having an extensive conversation about heritage, I don't see the point in bringing up racial mixing since socially you're going to be black no matter what, and some bitter little negro most likely is going to think you're boasting your special sauce and acting like massa's little offspring. It's a trap I tell ya!

Thank you. I was going to say the same thing. Slavery ended 146 years ago, not 500 years ago. I am 38 years old and my great grandparents were slaves - I think it's "new" to pretend like slavery is such ancient history. My great great grandfather was the offspring of a slave mother and slaveowner father. His mother was sold and he was raised by his father, taught to read and write, and became a veterinarian. Could my light skin, green eyes, and brown hair that turns red in the summer be a result of this mixing? Maybe, but there's so much about my entire family history that I don't know, that I don't make that assumption. Does my light skin and green eyes preclude me from being proud to be black? Or is it assumed that I'm pissed off and angry because I could be the result of a rape that happened over 100 years ago? If I went around telling everyone the very small amount I know about my family history they would think I want to to be anything other than black, but others here evidently think that I shouldn't claim my blackness because of how I look? Ridiculous. As far as hair is concerned, I have tight 4a curls, so maybe that makes me black enough to be down? erplexed

 

[Amoreofcurls]

Oh, yeah I know. And I get what you're saying. She very well could have been. All I'm saying is, it was rare to see a dark-skinned person with loose 3 type hair. I've only seen it since joining this board other than that one girl, so I can see how our stereotype was developed. I just thought it was interesting that the OP's stereotype was the complete opposite.
Like, it's interesting to me that I barely saw the looser curls with what we presumed were full-black people, and almost always saw them with the girls that were "obviously" mixed.
I'm not making an argument. Just an observation.

This is very common in the Carib sis...

 

[davisbr88]

This is very common in the Carib sis...

I'm not saying it isn't.
Like I said, I've seen it more since joining this board.
But I was talking about my experiences in PG County, MD.
I don't think we had a heavy Caribbean presence there. Plenty of West Africans, though. So, like I said, I think regions might play a role, too, in the stereotypes we create.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

I'm not saying it isn't.
Like I said, I've seen it more since joining this board.
But I was talking about my experiences in PG County, MD.
I don't think we had a heavy Caribbean presence there. Plenty of West Africans, though. So, like I said, I think regions might play a role, too, in the stereotypes we create.

I know you werent, but the regional thing is very true

 

[cheryl26]

I don't know because I haven't done extensive research on West Africa, which is where I think most slaves were bought? The Africans I've seen in real life always have type 4 hair but then again there aren't many Africans in my town so I'm sure there is more variety in somewhere like NYC. The people with my type of hair are usually like me, white/latino, both parents latino, black/white or just white. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with natural type 1-3a hair that was 100% West African and natural then again I haven't seen any AA's with that hair naturally either. Though a lot of folks relax, if the point of relaxing is manageability, why relax type 1-2 hair? My town is mostly white and black with a sprinkling of latinos so my views may be skewed.

 

[pisceschica]

This is very common in the Carib sis...

I do hair and about three of my brown-dark skinned customers have loose curly hair. One of them is from Jamaica and the other two are from Trinidad.

 

[davisbr88]

I know you werent, but the regional thing is very true

Yeah. I guess it would make sense then that there might be a heavy Carib influence where the OP is from since the Carib seems easily accessible to the Southern states.
There's a heavy concentration of West Africans in PG County, but there are heavy concentrations of East Africans just a little south in Northern Virginia.
Oops - I lied. I discovered many more dark-skinned women with loose type 2 and type 3 when I went to college, which admitted a LOT of East Africans. I keep forgetting to count them (probably because they definitely associated with being African and not black)!
All of this is very interesting to me.

 

[pisceschica]

I thought I made that VERY clear. Obviously I didn't so I went back and clarified.

You were very blunt but I got your point initially.

 

[knt1229]

Never really thought it was so difficult to identify the black race until I found hairboards. I grew up around blacks with different skin tones, complexions, features and hairtypes. So I never assume somebody is mixed just because of their skin tone or hairtype. Personally, I am of the mind that since black haircare practices are generally very bad that many of us don't really know what our hair texture is really like. I am also not convinced that a looser curl pattern is solely present due to a mixing of races. I believe it is definitely in the realm of possibility that type 3 hair may exist among blacks without any type of mixing being present. Therefore, I don't believe that the presence of loose curls automatically means someone is mixed or has some type of multicultural background.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

yep...........

 

[aquajoyice]

Okay for those that don't believe two black parents can have a "light skinndedededed" baby what say you? This child isn't albino and neither parents are mixed.

 

[kblc06]

I know you werent, but the regional thing is very true

It is?! But now that you guys mention it, there was an influx of Hatians in the lower part of the state as well as Louisiana after the revolution. But I don't know about being easily accessible. And alot of WIs have mistaken me for Trini.....hmmm. But my mother happens to look similar to Lorraine Toussaint and my dad very much like David Satcher....if that gives you any idea.

Yeah. I guess it would make sense then that there might be a heavy Carib influence where the OP is from since the Carib seems easily accessible to the Southern states.
There's a heavy concentration of West Africans in PG County, but there are heavy concentrations of East Africans just a little south in Northern Virginia.
Oops - I lied. I discovered many more dark-skinned women with loose type 2 and type 3 when I went to college, which admitted a LOT of East Africans. I keep forgetting to count them (probably because they definitely associated with being African and not black)!
All of this is very interesting to me.

 

[qchelle]

Are we debating if a black person and a white person have a kid...that they will most likely end up with some curl to their hair? Well ya duh lol.

BUT if we're talking about black people...like you have 2 parents who are black...then ok. When I was growing up, the people with curly/wavy hair were dark skinned. And I mean Kelly Rowland dark, not Beyonce dark I know many more dark black folks with wavy hair than light black folks. In fact...I don't know any light skinned black people with curly/wavy hair........unless they have a white parent. Also, the dark skinned people I saw usually had long hair. So I know it's the 'sterotype' to assume the opposite, but that's completely opposite for me and MY experiences.

I didn't meet any white people until I was like 12 and I didn't meet any mixed people until I came to college So being that the only experience EYE have with light black folks with curly/wavy hair...I tend to automatically assume they have a white parent....because I don't know any light black folks with 2 black parents who have wavy hair.

And I grew up in a 99.99999999% black place. No white students, no white teachers, no white people as patrons in the stores, no white people as cashiers in the stores, no white people driving through the neighborhood, no white people flying by in planes in the sky etc.

ETA: oh, and I know PAH-lenty of dark black people with 2 light skinned parents. And vice versa. This is not uncommon and will not get a 'wow!' in my neck of the woods lol.

 

[aquajoyice]

So think again when a person wants to question someone "blackness" because A: When you ASSume you make an A** out of yourself and secondly you can't judge a book by it's cover. So instead of thinking someone is self hating because they are proud of where they came from let's embrace a person for who they are. Because unless you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes you have no right to take away someone's pride.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

Oh and in Nigeria (and the rest of West Africa) you may see more 4 types, but as a whole hair types definately range from 2 to 4, as well as a wide range skintone (of course) and hair color...There are different ethnic groups within each of these countries there which attribute to this, in case ya'll dont know...

As a matter a fact i've seen a few Nigerian Fotkin's with type 3's...


davisbr88, I live in NYC so you know I see almost all types of people lol, I didnt know that MD dont have alot of Caribs...Come to think of it, I have Naija fam there

 

[Triniwegian]

Mixed kid checking in. Yes and no. Some people you can tell from a mile away that they are mixed, others you wouldn't know, and some depends on where you are, in terms of culture and context.

But yes, there is a widely agreed upon "look" that mixed people have or else we wouldn't have the stereotypes, even though that stereotype is contested time and time again.

 

[davisbr88]

Davis, I live in NYC so you know I see almost all types of people lol, I didnt know that MD dont have alot of Caribs

Yeah, you got all kinds!
There are quite a few in DC, which is to be expected, but not where I grew up about 10 miles west of DC.
I'm not sure how it is now, but there weren't many when I was younger (or maybe they just never claimed it). I only knew a handful of people from the Caribbean growing up.

 

[Amoreofcurls]

I don't know because I haven't done extensive research on West Africa, which is where I think most slaves were bought? The Africans I've seen in real life always have type 4 hair but then again there aren't many Africans in my town so I'm sure there is more variety in somewhere like NYC. The people with my type of hair are usually like me, white/latino, both parents latino, black/white or just white. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with natural type 1-3a hair that was 100% West African and natural then again I haven't seen any AA's with that hair naturally either. Though a lot of folks relax, if the point of relaxing is manageability, why relax type 1-2 hair? My town is mostly white and black with a sprinkling of latinos so my views may be skewed.

Really? white people relax too though and in NYC alot of the latino community relax as well to fight humidity or decrease coarseness, or bulk...If you go on sites like Naturallycurly you will see that...

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I think a lot of people don't want to accept this notion because they don't want to accept that their relatives deliberately mated with a person for something as superficial as hair or skin tone. Honestly, I think people here give too much power to race and phenotype. I really don't see anything wrong with people choosing their mates solely to keep a certain feature because all mammals do it.]

Can I ask why you believe that people 'breed' with each other to create certain physical traits and not because they just happened to be in love and get married or just have unprotected sex without thinking?

I've heard that some people will choose a mate based on wanting their children to have a certain hair type and what not but that is not everyone. And not the majority either, I believe.

 

[nappystorm]

Okay for those that don't believe two black parents can have a "light skinndedededed" baby what say you? This child isn't albino and neither parents are mixed.

If you say so