Question about Paula White

[Belle Du Jour]

Where is it mentioned in the Bible that you are supposed to give 10%?

Search the internet. There are a number of verses.

 

[mkh_77]

Search the internet. There are a number of verses.

I did. I didn't find any, so that's why I asked.

Tithing is mentioned in the OT as something that is expected, but not in the NT, and that is my point. We aren't called to tithe according to the NT.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.

 

[Southernbella.]

Are we talking about giving or tithing? If we are talking about tithing, I believe 10% goes to God off the top, no questions.

But, to go back to CBC's question, why can't the money going to the family be going to God? Do Christians really believe that God is only inside the church walls? I've always wondered why tithers HAVE to fill out their collection envelopes and place them in the church basket. Does God not know how much you've given until he sees your envelope?

Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.

Actually, when Jesus died, he fulfilled ALL of the Old Testament Laws, one of which is tithing. I've studied this extensively, and of all the Old Testament laws, the tithe is the only one churches are holding fast to. Why is that I wonder? Also, the tithe as it is practiced in churches today is unlawful. Under the law, only Levitical priests were allowed to collect the tithe. Jesus was the last Levitical priest, and when he died, he completed that lineage. Jews today don't collect tithes, per se, because there are no Levitical priests, and it would therefore be unlawful.

So, under the tithe law, any preacher who collects tithes today is saying he is a Levitical priest, which is impossible. In the New Testament, Christians are instructed to GIVE according to what is placed in their hearts, which could be 5, 10, 15, or 50%. It's a direct contradiction to tell a congregation that God doesn't want you to give under compulsion, then turn around and compel them to give 10%. I believe we are to GIVE, but tithing is not required for Christians.

 

[cocoberry10]

I often have wondered if it made a difference in God's eyes whether I put a check in the collection plate on Sunday or if I took what I had and gave it to an immediate cause right in front of my face. For instance, let's just say, I was on my way to church....cash in the wallet ready to drop....and I encounter a homeless family on the street where the mother is asking me for help. What if it comes down to choosing between charities? The church or the immediate need in front of you of your fellow man? Do you divide it up? Do you double your gift and give full amount to the church and then equal to the immediate cause in front of you? What about my Grandmother who does nothing but break off her retirement and Social Security income in large sums monthly for the church and then cannot afford to attend the annual conventions in Cali? Is it safe to trust the guidance of a pastor whose very living conditions depend on your "tithing" when it comes to how much you should give to be "in service to the Lord"?

I know just what you mean. I think back to the story in the bible where Mary was preparing for Jesus to come to her house. She was cooking, etc. and Jesus appeared to her 3 times that day in different forms, but she missed them all. In my opinion, I would give to the family in need. I personally believe God will put people in our path that need us to show them His love.

I am attaching a story about a homeless preacher that reminds me of this situation...

It was a cold winter's day that Sunday. The parking lot to the church was filling up quickly. I noticed as I got out of my car that fellow church members were whispering among themselves as they walked to the church. As I got closer I saw a man leaned up against the wall outside the church. He was almost laying down as if he was asleep. He had on a long trench coat that was almost in shreds and a hat topped his head, pulled down so you could not see his face. He wore shoes that looked 30 years old, too small for his feet with holes all over them, his toes stuck out.
I assumed this man was homeless, and asleep, so I walked on by through the doors of the church. We all Fellowshipped for a few minutes, and someone brought up the man laying outside. People snickered and gossiped but no one bothered to ask him to come in, including me.
A few moments later church began.
We all waited for the Preacher to take his place and to give us the Word, when the doors to the church opened. In came the homeless man walking down the aisle with his head down. People gasped and whispered and made faces. he made his way down the aisle and up onto the pulpit he took off his hat and coat. My heart sank. There stood our preacher...he was the "homeless man".

 

[cocoberry10]

Isn't she the one who uses the "blaccent" when preaching to black folks? If so, I totally feel you on that.

As far as the quote goes, I think she's wrong.

Yes, maybe that's what makes me not like her, but I don't think so. T.D. Jakes is her mentor, so it would make sense that she has an "accent" and I think she's from the deep south (rural Florida or Georgia to be exact).

 

[mkh_77]

Just because something is mentioned in the old testament and not the new doesn't negate it.

As Christians we don't follow the laws of the OT because, as Lauren450 pointed out, Jesus' coming fulfilled all of the laws of the OT. Didn't you know that when accepting Jesus Chirst as your Lord and Savior? By accepting Him, you are no longer bound to those laws that were put in place in an effort to give you communion with God. By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.

If you want to follow the laws of the OT, then you might want to consider converting to Judaism, as that is their focus.

 

[Southernbella.]

Yes, maybe that's what makes me not like her, but I don't think so. T.D. Jakes is her mentor, so it would make sense that she has an "accent" and I think she's from the deep south (rural Florida or Georgia to be exact).

Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.

 

[Southernbella.]

As Christians we don't follow the laws of the OT because, as Lauren450 pointed out, Jesus' coming fulfilled all of the laws of the OT. Didn't you know that when accepting Jesus Chirst as your Lord and Savior? By accepting Him, you are no longer bound to those laws that were put in place in an effort to give you communion with God. By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.

Exactly, and the church has been putting us all right back in bondage with the tithe law. There are several scriptures that talk about Jesus fulfilling the law. I'll try and find some and come back!

 

[MissYocairis]

But, to go back to CBC's question, why can't the money going to the family be going to God? Do Christians really believe that God is only inside the church walls? I've always wondered why tithers HAVE to fill out their collection envelopes and place them in the church basket. Does God not know how much you've given until he sees your envelope?



Actually, when Jesus died, he fulfilled ALL of the Old Testament Laws, one of which is tithing. I've studied this extensively, and of all the Old Testament laws, the tithe is the only one churches are holding fast to. Why is that I wonder? Also, the tithe as it is practiced in churches today is unlawful. Under the law, only Levitical priests were allowed to collect the tithe. Jesus was the last Levitical priest, and when he died, he completed that lineage. Jews today don't collect tithes, per se, because there are no Levitical priests, and it would therefore be unlawful.

So, under the tithe law, any preacher who collects tithes today is saying he is a Levitical priest, which is impossible. In the New Testament, Christians are instructed to GIVE according to what is placed in their hearts, which could be 5, 10, 15, or 50%. It's a direct contradiction to tell a congregation that God doesn't want you to give under compulsion, then turn around and compel them to give 10%. I believe we are to GIVE, but tithing is not required for Christians.

Great info, Lauren!

 

[cocoberry10]

Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.

Oh now I know what you mean. Yes, she does do this a lot and it irritates me too

 

[sunnyjohn]

Sorry, I didn't just mean accent, I meant saying stuff like, "Sister girl!" and "Girlfriend!". I want to say I've heard her speak and was turned off by that, but it could have been someone else.

Rod Parsley does that too. I can't watch him.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

By following the laws of the OT, you are not acknowledging that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy, and you are negating His purpose.

I think that's just wrong. God said that not one jot or thistle of His Word would pass away. Find the scripture that says we are free to disregard the OT.

If you want to follow the laws of the OT, then you might want to consider converting to Judaism, as that is their focus.

Was that statement really necessary?

 

[Belle Du Jour]

In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background). It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.

 

[Southernbella.]

In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background). It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.

Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?

God said that not one jot or thistle of His Word would pass away. Find the scripture that says we are free to disregard the OT.

Fair enough. Do you give the Lord burnt offerings of animals? Do you wear blue tassels in the corner of all your clothes? Do you eat unleavened bread for 7 days straight in honor of the Lord like He commanded?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

These things, including tithing, were laws in the Old Testament. If Jesus died to deliver us from the old covenant (OT laws), and God says we are delivered from the law, how can we still then be bound to it? And how can you pick and choose which Old Testament laws to obey?

 

[mkh_77]

Was that statement really necessary?

Yes. It goes to my point that Christians focus on the NT, and Jews focus on the OT. If you took it in a negative way, that is unfortunate as I didn't mean it to be negative.

And, again, as Lauren pointed out, Jesus came to deliver us from the laws of the OT. That is the whole point of the Good News--that we don't have to be bound by the laws of men because Jesus came to set us free from that and to provide the grace, love and salvation that those laws couldn't.

But, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am.

 

[cocoberry10]

In regards to PW using a certain vernacular and being caucasion, I think it's silly to assume she's trying to talk that way to attract black viewers (esp given her background). It's almost the same as assuming that because I'm black I should speak ebonics.

Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?

Exactly! I wouldn't have a problem with it if she spoke to everyone that way, but I also notice that she is different when a Black guest is on versus when a white guest is on. I even remember her saying to a Black female guest, I'm a sister, girlfriend. Giving her the benefit of the doubt , maybe she doesn't realize that a statement like that could be offensive to some Black women. However, my disinterest in her is not because of that, it's something else. Again, I can't put my finger on it, and almost feel bad, because I normally am a fan and supporter of female pastors.

 

[Yellowflowers]

Then why doesn't she speak to her white audience that way?



Fair enough. Do you give the Lord burnt offerings of animals? Do you wear blue tassels in the corner of all your clothes? Do you eat unleavened bread for 7 days straight in honor of the Lord like He commanded?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

These things, including tithing, were laws in the Old Testament. If Jesus died to deliver us from the old covenant (OT laws), and God says we are delivered from the law, how can we still then be bound to it? And how can you pick and choose which Old Testament laws to obey?

Whew! It was no accident I stumbled on this post. My girlfriend and I were talking about this very thing. I got shivers when I read your post. I have never heard this someone explain this so elequantly.

I don't think any of us ignore the old testement but we are certainly not bound by it. The old testement serves as history. We do not have to sacrfice animals to be heard by God because he offered himself up to be the utimate sacrifice.

We are released from the old law of an eye for an eye. (karma) We could not be forgiven until we suffered from the sins we commited. That was the whole purpose of Christ dying on the cross to release us from this. Now we can pray anywhere. We do not have to suffer from our sins (karma) if we truly repent and ask for forgiveness. We then come under the law of Grace.

As for the 10 percent, I think the church of that day was being chastised because they were not taking care of the church not bring food offerings etc. This was never a commandment.

Lauren I really enjoyed your enlightening post.

Also tithes can be tithes and offerings. (time, service etc.) It does not have to be money.

 

[pearlygurl]

I talked to my dad, he's big on theology etc. and he told me that no Christians DON'T HAVE to tithe because of the whole Old Testament and God breaking the laws. He said you shouldn't give because someone is making you, you should want to give (money, time, etc.) out of love because of what God has done for you. Oh, and he said that how some churches preach about how if you don't tithe you will be cursed is also false because God freed us from curses. My dad did say that even though you don't have to tithe (10%), you still can and God honors the principle behind that law. These are JUST OPINIONS...not trying to make anyone believe anything

 

[Southernbella.]

I don't think any of us ignore the old testement but we are certainly not bound by it. The old testement serves as history. We do not have to sacrfice animals to be heard by God because he offered himself up to be the utimate sacrifice.

Yep! I was reading some of Billy Graham's teachings on the Old Testament, and he was saying that it's like a slap in the face to God to think we have to DO anything to curry favor with Him, when He sent His son to die that we would be free from all the stuff the children of Israel had to do to get close to God. Everything before Jesus was about DOING things, these rituals and ceremonies and strict regulations. Everything after Jesus was about freedom, and being able to get to God ourselves. It was about the spirit, not the law. The more I study it, the more I see that it is a theme that runs throughout the Bible.

Also tithes can be tithes and offerings. (time, service etc.) It does not have to be money.

Exactly. As Christians, we are instructed to GIVE whatever is in our hearts to give, but how many Christians are in bondage to the 10% of your gross income rule? Many, I would guess.


I was telling my husband that I dare any preacher to actually teach the truth about giving. If you can find me one church that teaches it right, I would be more than happy to sow into that ministry, and I believe that church would be so blessed they wouldn't have room to receive it all.

I remember when my old pastor went off of salary and told us that if we felt like giving to him and his family, do so, and if not, it's perfectly fine. I will never forget how humbled he was when he realized that he was receiving way MORE than when he was on salary. The same principal applies to churches, I think. We are always told to step out on faith and see how God will bless us, yet church leaders are afraid to do that when it comes to tithing vs. giving. It's time for some preachers to tell the truth and step out on faith.

I talked to my dad, he's big on theology etc. and he told me that no Christians DON'T HAVE to tithe because of the whole Old Testament and God breaking the laws. He said you shouldn't give because someone is making you, you should want to give (money, time, etc.) out of love because of what God has done for you. Oh, and he said that how some churches preach about how if you don't tithe you will be cursed is also false because God freed us from curses. My dad did say that even though you don't have to tithe (10%), you still can and God honors the principle behind that law. These are JUST OPINIONS...not trying to make anyone believe anything

ITA with everything your dad says. I also don't begrudge anyone for tithing. After all, if you join a church, you are submitting to a pastor's authority, so if he says to tithe, you have to be obedient to that. I just feel that the teaching is incorrect, and many people are in bondage to it.

 

[Yellowflowers]

Yep! I was reading some of Billy Graham's teachings on the Old Testament, and he was saying that it's like a slap in the face to God to think we have to DO anything to curry favor with Him, when He sent His son to die that we would be free from all the stuff the children of Israel had to do to get close to God. Everything before Jesus was about DOING things, these rituals and ceremonies and strict regulations. Everything after Jesus was about freedom, and being able to get to God ourselves. It was about the spirit, not the law. The more I study it, the more I see that it is a theme that runs throughout the Bible.

Exactly. As Christians, we are instructed to GIVE whatever is in our hearts to give, but how many Christians are in bondage to the 10% of your gross income rule? Many, I would guess.


I was telling my husband that I dare any preacher to actually teach the truth about giving. If you can find me one church that teaches it right, I would be more than happy to sow into that ministry, and I believe that church would be so blessed they wouldn't have room to receive it all.

I remember when my old pastor went off of salary and told us that if we felt like giving to him and his family, do so, and if not, it's perfectly fine. I will never forget how humbled he was when he realized that he was receiving way MORE than when he was on salary. The same principal applies to churches, I think. We are always told to step out on faith and see how God will bless us, yet church leaders are afraid to do that when it comes to tithing vs. giving. It's time for some preachers to tell the truth and step out on faith.



ITA with everything your dad says. I also don't begrudge anyone for tithing. After all, if you join a church, you are submitting to a pastor's authority, so if he says to tithe, you have to be obedient to that. I just feel that the teaching is incorrect, and many people are in bondage to it.

You are so right. It is so wrong for ministers to place people in bondage with scripture for financial gain, taking advantage of people who are searching for spiritual enlightenment.

Jesus did not live a lavish lifestyle at the expense of the church.

By the way Lauren, you and the little cutie are absolutely gorgeous.

 

[czyfaith77]

I LOVE Paula White, but sometimes I think she focuses excessively on money. But, I know she talks about first fruits alot - in that God asks that we give Him the first and best offerings of everything that we have. So instead of giving Him what we have left over (after we pay our bills, get our hair done, shop, etc) we are to give Him our best monetary offering in reverence of everything that He's done for us. I guess because many people have a problem parting with their money, she considers it the highest form of service and surrender. I think it is a very important part of service and can be done through tithes, but can also be done by giving money to charity, struggling family and friends, and homeless (without expecting anything in return.) I also believe that we serve and honor God by giving of our time, volunteering, helping others, being honest, forgiving, loving, etc.

So I guess I don't totally agree with her on that

I fully agree with this post. I've have been watching Paula White since she came on television five years ago and I saw her at the God's Leading Ladies Conference in Charlotte a few years ago with T.D. Jakes. The woman has a truly sincere love for God and His people. She truly has a pastor's heart and not that of a hireling. The only times I hear her speak of money is in reference to an offering (such as what is described above, the importance of tithing (which I believe in doing from the depths of my heart and soul ) and blessing someone in need because she does alot of work with the homeless and single parent families in Tampa and other places.

 

[pearlygurl]

I was telling my husband that I dare any preacher to actually teach the truth about giving. If you can find me one church that teaches it right, I would be more than happy to sow into that ministry, and I believe that church would be so blessed they wouldn't have room to receive it all.

We are always told to step out on faith and see how God will bless us, yet church leaders are afraid to do that when it comes to tithing vs. giving. It's time for some preachers to tell the truth and step out on faith.

I think this has a lot to do with the preachers not knowing themselves. Most probably grew up hearing this message so they preach it themselves and so the cycle continues...

 

[shalom]

Can I give give my 2 cents regarding tithing. I'm going to say this first in case someone has questions and wants biblical reference I don't have the time to back this up with scriptures because I'm at work.

According to my teachings OT sacrificially offerings (atonement) and the church (tithe) are two separate entities. When Jesus Christ gave his life on calvary's cross he shed his blood for the remission of sin. Once the blood of Jesus was shed it is not longer necessary for the slaining of animal for atonement. Tithes were used to help those who were underpriviledged and it is a ritual, but it has nothing to do with SIN which is the difference between the two. Jesus gave his life to abolish the rituals that were once used to offer forgiveness for sin. Tithes don't have anything to do with sin.

Disregarding the OT would mean that we are disregarding Abraham our founding father who all our covenient promises came through. Please don't disregard the OT.

I agree with where you place your tithes is debatable. Worrying about what the pastor does with the money is not my problem that's between him and God, tithing is supposed to be an act of obedience to the Lord.

I also don't believe that giving money is the greatest sacrifice as someone may have menation PW insinuated. I believe that the greatest sacrafice any of us can give is that of our love, kindness, mercy and forgiveness to our fellow man. It's what Jesus did when he gave his life on calvary's cross. He gave his life because he loves us.

As stated earlier just my 2 cents.

 

[Southernbella.]

Disregarding the OT would mean that we are disregarding Abraham our founding father who all our covenient promises came through. Please don't disregard the OT.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should disregard the OT. The question is, do Old Testament LAWS (like tithing, wearing certain clothing, sacrificing, eating certain food, etc.) apply to Christians today, and the answer is no.

tithing is supposed to be an act of obedience to the Lord.

Yes, for the people of Israel. They were the chosen people, and they had specific instructions about the tithe, as it was for their inheritance, etc. Christians are not instructed to tithe, we are instructed to GIVE. There's a big difference. Lastly, if the tithe were still lawful today, the way we do it would be completely incorrect. You would think that if pastors/preachers were really trying to get us to be obedient to God, they would teach us to tithe the way the children of Israel tithed. But that would bring in less money, I guess.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I'm sorry ladies, but this is one time I have to say something.

Our concern should be to preach the gospel, in season and out of season. We have to remember that there are many non-christians that read these threads and when they see the back and forth that is going on the way it is...no wonder they don't want to come to Christ.

In everything we must always remember who we are in Christ. It's Him we always want to lift up and exalt. Even if you feel that you are right in what you are saying, remember the Holy Spirit is the One that will bring correction and especially the truth.

Let us come together and help those that don't know Jesus. Yes, there are many who should be preaching this (those we see on tv, etc.), but our job is not to judge them or speak about them in any manner, but to be a light upon a hill which cannot be hidden.

I speak blessings over all of you and pray that my reply doesn't come across in a bad way, I surely didn't mean for it to be that way.

Blessings...

 

[BeaLady]

Let us come together and help those that don't know Jesus. Yes, there are many who should be preaching this (those we see on tv, etc.), but our job is not to judge them or speak about them in any manner, but to be a light upon a hill which cannot be hidden.

I totally agree. Regarding the original question, bringing a soul to Christ is the highest form of service a Christian can do.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I totally agree. Regarding the original question, bringing a soul to Christ is the highest form of service a Christian can do.

Amen. Stay blessed.