Baptism and Communion...

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 2, 2014

Ladies I need your help to back up a point. So today I thought my church was going to serve communion as today is 1st Sunday of the month but they didn't. I called one of the Deacons and he said that they only give communion when the spirt calls. I'm like what? I feel that communion should be given once a month and everyone partaking it should be baptized. He said oh that the people at the Passover were not baptized and they broke bread with God. This is true but it's not the same thing per se. Someone taking communion should have accepted God as their personal savior and baptized. They are now just starting to offer Baptism classes because another member mentioned they should not be baptizing anyone without having them take a class.

Basically I need passages in the bible that backup my theory of needing to be baptized to take body and blood of Christ and also it should be given on a schedule either once every month or twice a month I don't know. I've been to other churches and this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this. This is a NonDenomination church. I will bring my thoughts but I need the word to back me up. TIA

Divine. · Feb 2, 2014

I don't have scripture to back it up but my previous church made it a point not to do communion as a ritual. It was something we did strictly in remembrance of Jesus Christ. I currently go to a non-denomination church and we partake in it every 2nd Sunday. I don't think the bible really states how often you should take communion.

I think as long as you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, there should be no reason why you can't take communion. When I was younger, my parents forbid me from taking communion until I understood what it meant. The same standards should be in place for adults as well. However, I don't think you can monitor who is baptized and who is not.

The reason behind taking communion is more important than when you do it to me. I would be more concerned if they never did communion at all. Doing communion regularly is a great way to always remind people of Jesus' sacrifice. We never want to forget this. If you're going to approach them, I think that should be the way to present it instead of looking for hard scriptures.

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 2, 2014

Divine. said:
I don't have scripture to back it up but my previous church made it a point not to do communion as a ritual. It was something we did strictly in remembrance of Jesus Christ. I currently go to a non-denomination church and we partake in it every 2nd Sunday. I don't think the bible really states how often you should take communion. I think as long as you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, there should be no reason why you can't take communion. When I was younger, my parents forbid me from taking communion until I understood what it meant. The same standards should be in place for adults as well. However, I don't think you can monitor who is baptized and who is not. The reason behind taking communion is more important than when you do it to me. I would be more concerned if they never did communion at all. Doing communion regularly is a great way to always remind people of Jesus' sacrifice. We never want to forget this. If you're going to approach them, I think that should be the way to present it instead of looking for hard scriptures.

Yes what you mentioned is what he was saying but I don't agree. If you are not baptized I do not think you are suppose to take it and that message should be said before giving the communion. You should also repent before taking it. I was told that if you take the body of Christ without repenting that it can even kill you because it's abomination to take it and not ask for forgiveness first. I think giving it once or twice a month would be good but they only give it occasionally when the spirt calls for it but what about my spirit? I don't really get it.

Divine. · Feb 2, 2014

Kinkyhairlady said:
Yes what you mentioned is what he was saying but I don't agree. If you are not baptized I do not think you are suppose to take it and that message should be said before giving the communion. You should also repent before taking it. I was told that if you take the body of Christ without repenting that it can even kill you because it's abomination to take it and not ask for forgiveness first. I think giving it once or twice a month would be good but they only give it occasionally when the spirt calls for it but what about my spirit? I don't really get it.

I understand. Because I have been to churches that shove certain rules and traditions down your throat, it's hard for me to really side on the issue. On one hand, I do feel that you should only take communion if you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior. On the other, I'm not so sure there should be specific parameters around when it needs to be taken. That's a gray area that I don't really have the wisdom to explain.

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 2, 2014

Bumping I know more ladies no more about this. I really want some insight.

MrsHaseeb · Feb 3, 2014

There is no Bible verse that says a) communion is to be taken on any schedule and b) one must be baptized to participate. What must be is that the person is a believer and understands what communion is. What if they were baptized many years ago at another church? Whose job is it to say that person can't partake in communion? And why must one take a class to be baptized? That idea is not found in the Bible either. Communion is to proclaim the Lord's death til He comes. This could honestly be done once a year, there is no set time. Being done every 1st Sunday is out of tradition. There are denominations that do it weekly. Doesn't mean either is right or wrong. However, if you feel a burden to take communion then do it at home. The idea that it must be done in a church and administered by pastors, etc is false.

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 3, 2014

MrsHaseeb said:
There is no Bible verse that says a) communion is to be taken on any schedule and b) one must be baptized to participate. What must be is that the person is a believer and understands what communion is. What if they were baptized many years ago at another church? Whose job is it to say that person can't partake in communion? And why must one take a class to be baptized? That idea is not found in the Bible either. Communion is to proclaim the Lord's death til He comes. This could honestly be done once a year, there is no set time. Being done every 1st Sunday is out of tradition. There are denominations that do it weekly. Doesn't mean either is right or wrong. However, if you feel a burden to take communion then do it at home. The idea that it must be done in a church and administered by pastors, etc is false.

Good explanation. I'm just so used to tradition so this really threw me off. As long it's ok in Gods eyes I'm ok I just thought it was wrong.

MrsHaseeb · Feb 3, 2014

Kinkyhairlady said:
Good explanation. I'm just so used to tradition so this really threw me off. As long it's ok in Gods eyes I'm ok I just thought it was wrong.

Understood

Belle Du Jour · Feb 3, 2014

Early Christians saw the Eucharist/Holy Communion as the focal point of the worship service. In the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant liturgical churches today, communion is offered at every service. What a grace and a blessing. Jesus promised to be with us until the end of the world and He literally meant that He would be with us in communion. The substance of the bread and wine become His very body and blood. Early Christians also believed that as well.

Jesus Himself in John goes into a very lengthy discourse about this and many of His followers abandoned Him because they thought He was talking crazy. The original word when Jesus talks about eating His flesh means to gnaw on it. He was not speaking in metaphors but being as direct as He could. This is one of my favorite passages:

John 6:52-59
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

He is the living manna. He is both the high priest and the sacrifice. It is a great mystery for sure. . .Although there is no requirement to receive Communion more than once a year in the Catholic Church, frequent reception is encouraged because we are literally receiving Jesus into our very bodies. It is a powerful weapon in our armor against Sata. We become living tabernacles of the Lord when we receive Communion. Although frequent reception is encouraged, we are also supposed to be in a state of grace. We confess our sins at the beginning of every mass and beg forgiveness so that we are properly disposed to receive Communion.

Baptism is the "gateway sacrament" and is the initiation for anyone into the Church so one cannot worthily receive Communion unless s/he is baptized into the faith.

Belle Du Jour · Feb 3, 2014

Divine. said:
I think as long as you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, there should be no reason why you can't take communion. When I was younger, my parents forbid me from taking communion until I understood what it meant. The same standards should be in place for adults as well. However, I don't think you can monitor who is baptized and who is not.

The reason behind taking communion is more important than when you do it to me. I would be more concerned if they never did communion at all. Doing communion regularly is a great way to always remind people of Jesus' sacrifice. We never want to forget this. If you're going to approach them, I think that should be the way to present it instead of looking for hard scriptures.

Paul's letter to the Corinthians contradicts this. . .

1 Cor 27-29:
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Also Holy Communion is more than a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice, it is a literal representation of His sacrifice in real time.

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

MrsHaseeb · Feb 3, 2014

Belle Du Jour said:
Paul's letter to the Corinthians contradicts this. . .

1 Cor 27-29:
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Also Holy Communion is more than a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice, it is a literal representation of His sacrifice in real time.

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

What Paul's letter contradicts is the cannibalistic idea that we are literally eating flesh and drinking blood. Communion is to be done in remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. Christ abides with and in believers by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not talking about a communion where people are supposedly calling him down from heaven and taking pieces of him to feed people and drawing blood to give people to drink.

Belle Du Jour · Feb 3, 2014

MrsHaseeb said:
What Paul's letter contradicts is the cannibalistic idea that we are literally eating flesh and drinking blood. Communion is to be done in remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. Christ abides with and in believers by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not talking about a communion where people are supposedly calling him down from heaven and taking pieces of him to feed people and drawing blood to give people to drink.

Actually, it was cannabalistic to the Jews which is what turned so many people off. Why would He say it if He didn't mean it? He could have chosen different words. He was talking about gnawing on His flesh. Even Peter said "this teaching is hard. . ." If it was "just" some bread, then why would it matter if people took it worthily or not? It is SO much deeper than bread and wine :yep:

MrsHaseeb · Feb 3, 2014

Belle Du Jour said:
Actually, it was cannabalistic to the Jews which is what turned so many people off. Why would He say it if He didn't mean it? He could have chosen different words. He was talking about gnawing on His flesh. Even Peter said "this teaching is hard. . ." If it was "just" some bread, then why would it matter if people took it worthily or not? It is SO much deeper than bread and wine

I agree that it was much deeper. But Jesus never mentions this when he instituted the communion and 1 Corinthians 11 makes it clear that it was to show remembrance. Nonetheless, I'm not here to argue. It would prove unfruitful since we disagree.

Iwanthealthyhair67 · Feb 3, 2014

Kinkyhairlady said:
Good explanation. I'm just so used to tradition so this really threw me off. As long it's ok in Gods eyes I'm ok I just thought it was wrong.

Don't get caught up on traditions ...

I admire a church that choses to be HS led, breaking of bread does not have to be on a schedule...at my church (non denomination) sometimes its 2-3 per week sometimes less.

LiftedUp · Feb 3, 2014

I didn't know that communion was not served at every service. Once it's the celebration of the Holy Eucharist we have communion. There is a service every day of the week, so, you can go on Wednesday and have communion during service, Friday etc.

We actually say a verse before that reminds us why we're having communion in the first place:

1 Chorinthians 11
23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

Additionally you are prepared before being "allowed" to take communion and persons who take communion in their own churches are invited for communion as well.

Also, from my experience, I know that you usually prepare yourself to receive communion. So some people decline because of that.

blazingthru · Feb 3, 2014

I agree with some of the other poster that there is no mandate as to when to have communion. You can have it as often as you desire, however, it weakens its meaning, making it ritualistic. We have communion once a quarter, ours include foot washing. which is to judge yourself, examine your heart to see how God is working in your life. In the upper room, the foot washing was an action that encouraged and fostered humility. None of the disciples had the humility to play the part of a servant. Jesus did, so he did. This is something that helps us to enter into that mindset of humility as we approach the Communion service. You do not need to be baptized to accept communion. In fact, there should always be bible study that is an encouragement for those who wish to give their life to Christ to take an advantage and from there receive baptism. I couldn't begin to figure out what is baptism classes. We have to be careful about traditions, we always should choose the bible over traditions.

Belle Du Jour · Feb 3, 2014

The institution of the Eucharist was the very last thing Christ did before his Passion, death and Resurrection. That alone underscores the importance of communion. The earliest Christian writers speak of the importance of the "breaking of the bread." If Communion was seen as central and worth risking death (remember those underground illegal services they had to break the bread?) to those who walked with and knew Christ, I don't understand why those who cast it off several hundred years later would be seen as more enlightened? Why do we place more stock in modern teachers while ignoring the words from those who were our ancestors in the faith? There is nothing "ritualistic" about Communion. It is such an unmerited grace to receive Him.

"Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed."

Anyway, this has been a great discussion and it is interesting to read other viewpoints :yep:

PinkPebbles · Feb 3, 2014

Belle Du Jour said:
Paul's letter to the Corinthians contradicts this. . .

1 Cor 27-29:
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Also Holy Communion is more than a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice, it is a literal representation of His sacrifice in real time.

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

I agree.

LiftedUp said:
I didn't know that communion was not served at every service. Once it's the celebration of the Holy Eucharist we have communion. There is a service every day of the week, so, you can go on Wednesday and have communion during service, Friday etc.

We actually say a verse before that reminds us why we're having communion in the first place:

Additionally you are prepared before being "allowed" to take communion and persons who take communion in their own churches are invited for communion as well.

Also, from my experience, I know that you usually prepare yourself to receive communion. So some people decline because of that.

Yes, at my church we prepare before taking communion - exam ourselves; repent of sins, and say a verse that reminds us the importance of taking communion.

JaneBond007 · Feb 3, 2014

If I may interject, if one denomination is not literally receiving the body and blood of Jesus Christ through the eucharist or the transubstantiation or consecrated host and wine, then they set their own rules on how to participate in communion. What theirs is is "in remembrance" only. The catholic and universal East and Western churches' rules do not apply since they are not in union.

Galadriel · Feb 6, 2014

I've never heard of a Christian church/community agreeing to offer communion to someone not baptized/not Christian? Usually, I have seen that they require you to be baptized.

If I were a Protestant, I would hold the view that a person should be a baptized Christian to receive communion. It is a sacrament Christ Himself instituted and gave to us (i.e., the Last Supper), and the Apostles warned us not to partake of it unworthily (i.e., Paul's exhortation in 1 Corinthians). If we as believers and members of the Body are held to a standard where we are to prepare, examine ourselves, and partake of the Lord's Supper in a worthy fashion, why on earth would we extend this, with no standard, to a non-baptized person? Communion ties us to the Lord, and to each other as a COMMUNION of persons. This also reflects on the sacrament of baptism. As mentioned before, baptism makes one a member of the Church; it's the gateway into the Body of Christ.

As a Catholic, suffice it to say, I co-sign with the other Catholics and liturgical folk on the meaning, purpose, and reality of the Real Presence of Christ in the consecrated bread and wine. If you read the early Christian martyrs and apologists during the time of the Roman persecutions, you'll see that the early Church upheld that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, and that they were passing on what the Apostles gave them.

Galadriel · Feb 6, 2014

Belle Du Jour said:
There is nothing "ritualistic" about Communion.

Belle Du Jour agreed. Just because something is participated in or is done on a regular or consistent basis doesn't mean it's banal ritual without grace or meaning. I wake up and see my husband and children every day, tell my husband I love him every day, etc. I go to church every Sunday, and don't see the act of attending church ritualistic and "lessening its meaning." Hmm, I wonder if the people who only show up during Christmas and Easter have more meaning and respect for church attendance since they do it less frequently :lol:

.

I kid, I kid...

When I partake of communion every Sunday, I am excited. I am happy. I am ready to receive Christ! How could I ever feel or say that Our Lord bores me? But I guess it all boils down to what you believe communion is.

Another part to consider is that priests say Mass every day of the week, and offer communion every day because the Eucharist is a sacrifice--it's the re-presentation of Christ's eternal sacrifice of His body on the Cross, which brings us salvation. When we accompany the Eucharist with our prayers and petitions, we are also calling God's blessings down on us and on the world. This is one way how we enact our role of being a priestly people. Priests plead and pray to God on the behalf of others and offer sacrifice. We are a priestly people, and must participate in the sacrifice of the Mass not only for ourselves, but for the world. And, of course, our High Priest is our Lord Jesus :yep:

JaneBond007 · Feb 6, 2014

@Kinkyhairlady

Were you from a previous catholic household that switched? You sound like one in your OP. The way you describe what you consider to be communion is making me wonder ("the body and blood").

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 8, 2014

JaneBond007 said:
@Kinkyhairlady Were you from a previous catholic household that switched? You sound like one in your OP. The way you describe what you consider to be communion is making me wonder ("the body and blood").

No I grew up Baptist now I attend non domination church.

JaneBond007

menina · Feb 8, 2014

I think there's also different views on what/ which baptism (water, fire, holy spirit) one needs to go through in order to be Christian, a church member, and to take communion. Interesting discussion.

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 9, 2014

Well I guess they took my concern in consideration they will now give communion monthly. Works for me!

Eta: it was a concern not a complaint.

Iwanthealthyhair67 · Feb 9, 2014

^^you can partake of communion in your personal prayer time with God, as often as you are lead to it does not only have to be done at your church.

Shimmie · Feb 9, 2014

Kinkyhairlady said:
Well I guess they took my complaints in consideration they will now give communion monthly. Works for me!

It should not have been a 'complaint' for as a Pastor he still has to be lead of the Holy Spirit when and when not to take Holy Communion. And the key word here is 'Holy', otherwise it becomes a 'Ritual' and loses it's purpose.

The entire responsibility of a Church Leader is to be lead of the Holy Spirit, not the will of the congregation. This is what lead to the fall of King Saul, rather than yielding to the Lord, he disobeyed and yielded to the 'people' instead.

I've been in the Ministry for a long time and I know that without the leading of God in leadership, there's no point in being there.

Holy Communion, Baptisms, even Weddings and all that comes in the House of Worship, is not to be planned as a Ritual nor to what anyone (even the Leadership) feels. Schedules are practical and serve a purpose, however they are not to be set in stone. It's what and how the Lord leads.

I hope my post doesn't sound harsh. It is not intended to be. :giveheart:

Kinkyhairlady · Feb 9, 2014

Shimmie said:
It should not have been a 'complaint' for as a Pastor he still has to be lead of the Holy Spirit when and when not to take Holy Communion. And the key word here is 'Holy', otherwise it becomes a 'Ritual' and loses it's purpose. The entire responsibility of a Church Leader is to be lead of the Holy Spirit, not the will of the congregation. This is what lead to the fall of King Saul, rather than yielding to the Lord, he disobeyed and yielded to the 'people' instead. I've been in the Ministry for a long time and I know that without the leading of God in leadership, there's no point in being there. Holy Communion, Baptisms, even Weddings and all that comes in the House of Worship, is not to be planned as a Ritual nor to what anyone (even the Leadership) feels. Schedules are practical and serve a purpose, however they are not to be set in stone. It's what and how the Lord leads. I hope my post doesn't sound harsh. It is not intended to be.

Hey Shimmie

I agree with you but I think due to this being a growing church they are still learning. They used to do it when the spirit calls to do so but I guess after expressing I'm not used to that and maybe others have presented this to them that they decided to do this once a month. I was really hurt that I could not take communion first Sunday of the month. I prepare myself spiritually for it. I'm happy they are doing it.

Galadriel · Feb 11, 2014

Shimmie said:
The entire responsibility of a Church Leader is to be lead of the Holy Spirit,

Agreed....

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