Rick Warren Squashes Rumors;

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
Says He Strongly Opposes Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Law



  • (Photo: The Nines Conference screen grab)
    Pastor Rick Warren
By Anugrah Kumar, Christian Post Contributor

March 3, 2014|8:33 am
Pastor Rick Warren on Sunday strongly condemned rumors that he supported a controversial law passed in Uganda last week that allows those convicted of homosexuality to be imprisoned for life. The pastor of California's Saddleback Church underscored that he is against the law today just as he was in 2009 when it was first proposed.

"Only fools believe everything they hear!" Warren wrote, quoting Proverbs 14:15.

The rumor started four years ago when Rachel Maddow of MSNBC "falsely accused me of supporting the law – without ever bothering to check with me if it was true," he explained on his Facebook page.

Last week, when the "bad law" passed, the rumors popped up again, he noted. Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni signed the anti-homosexuality bill into law, stating, "No study has shown you can be homosexual by nature. That's why I have agreed to sign the bill."

While homosexuality was already illegal in the country, the newly passed law expands the criminalization of same-sex relations – "aggravated homosexuality" is punishable by life imprisonment and the "promotion" of homosexuality is also criminalized. It also requires citizens to report to the police anyone suspected of being gay.


"Outsiders cannot dictate to us. This is our country. I advise friends from the west not to make this an issue, because if they make it an issue the more they will lose," Museveni added.

Pastor Warren re-released a video he had sent to Uganda's pastors when the law was proposed in 2009.

In it, he states, "While we can never deny or water down what God's Word clearly teaches about sexuality, at the same time the church must stand to protect the dignity of all individuals – as Jesus did and commanded all of us to do."

"Jesus reaffirmed what Moses wrote that marriage is intended to be between one man and one woman committed to each other for life," the megachurch pastor says, and then adds, "Jesus also taught us that the greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves."
Warren says there are five reasons why he is speaking about the law in Uganda.

"First, the potential law is unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals, requiring the death penalty (the provision that was in the original draft of the bill) in some cases … Second, the law would force pastors to report their pastoral conversations with homosexuals to authorities … Third, it would have a chilling effect on your ministry to the hurting … Fourth, all life, no matter how humble or broken, whether unborn or dying, is precious to God … Finally, the freedom to make moral choices and our right to free expression are gifts endowed by God."

Warren stresses that his role is always pastoral, not political. His ministry's PEACE Plan is an effort "to mobilize Christians around the world to address … the "five global giants" of spiritual emptiness, corrupt leadership, poverty, disease, and illiteracy by promoting reconciliation, equipping servant leaders, assisting the poor, caring for the sick, and educating the next generation."

Responding to rumors that he was behind the law in Uganda, Warren says he's never met or spoken to the president of Uganda.
Warren adds that when he heard about the proposed law, he wrote to the most influential leader in that country, the Anglican archbishop of Uganda, and shared his opposition and concern. "He wrote me back, saying that he, too, was opposed to the death penalty for homosexuals."

The Saddleback pastor also says he opposes the criminalization of homosexuality. "The freedom to make moral choices is endowed by God. Since God gives us that freedom, we must protect it for all, even when we disagree with their choices. All life, no matter how humble or broken, whether unborn or dying, is precious to God."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/r...pposes-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-law-115483/
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
The measures in Uganda are drastic towards gays; extremely drastic. I have to say that they are inhuman. I saw a documentary and the fright that this gay man lived there was beyond any fear I've ever known. No one deserves to live with that type of fear even if they are gay.

What bothers me about Rick Warren is that he appears 'fearful' of media backlash and he is not taking a full stand upon God's Word when he says "we must protect it for all". I understand having 'free will' to choose, but when Warren speaks of protection, is he projecting that he believes in the protection of 'gay rights'? Where this group sets out to teach innocent children in public schools that gay is normal when clearly it is not. Or that it's okay to sue Christians who have legitimate businesses who stand on their principals to not support gay marriage.

Warren needs to be more definitive with this. And Rachel Maddox needs to keep her mouth shut. She's showing her stupidity. She's showing her lack of credibility by falsely accusing Warren of a very serious offense without obtaining not only factual proof of it, but to even give him the courtesy of an interview. Oh' but she's gay which gives her rights to lie on Christians just to stir up mess farting from her behind. Yeah, that's just about what she's stirring up. Like her father the devil, the truth is far from her.
 
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Blackpearl1993

Well-Known Member
The measures in Uganda are drastic towards gays; extremely drastic. I have to say that they are inhuman. I saw a documentary and the fright that this gay man lived there was beyond any fear I've ever known. No one deserves to live with that type of fear even if they are gay.

What bothers me about Rick Warren is that he appears 'fearful' of media backlash and he is not taking a full stand upon God's Word when he says "we must protect it for all". I understand having 'free will' to choose, but when Warren speaks of protection, is he projecting that he believes in the protection of 'gay rights'? Where this group sets out to teach innocent children in public schools that gay is normal when clearly it is not. Or that it's okay to sue Christians who have legitimate businesses who stand on their principals to not support gay marriage.

Warren needs to be more definitive with this. And Rachel Maddox needs to keep her mouth shut. She's showing her stupidity. She's showing her lack of credibility by falsely accusing Warren of a very serious offense without obtaining not only factual proof of it, but to even give him the courtesy of an interview. Oh' but she's gay which gives her rights to lie on Christians just to stir up mess farting from her behind. Yeah, that's just about what she's stirring up. Like her father the devil, the truth is far from her.

Thjis is exactly what I thought when I read that. In all honesty, this isn't the first time I have questioned Warren's stance on God's word. I'm simply not sure about him.

As for Rachel Maddow (sp?), she has always had an agenda. If you don't agree with her liberal stance, you are simply wrong. She is a troubled woman who needs to come to Jesus.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Thjis is exactly what I thought when I read that. In all honesty, this isn't the first time I have questioned Warren's stance on God's word. I'm simply not sure about him.

As for Rachel Maddow (sp?), she has always had an agenda. If you don't agree with her liberal stance, you are simply wrong. She is a troubled woman who needs to come to Jesus.

I spelled her name wrong... :lol:

Question: Isn't it a liability for a reporter/journalist to falsely accuse someone without evidence to substantiate it? Rachel actually broke a law for this is very serious accusation. She is willfully calling Pastor Warren a murderer and causing misconceptions about him in criminal manner. I would think that she would have been fired by MSNBC for telling such a lie.

Other journalists / correspondents have been fired for less such as opposition to gay marriage on their facebook/twitter pages. Who was it, Roland Martin who was fired a year or so ago for opposing gay marriage?

If nothing else, gays are the most discriminating groups of people that I have ever witnessed and that is not an exaggeration or a lie. :nono:
 

FreeIndeed

Member
I can understand that Rick Warren felt it necessary to refute false rumors that he supported unjust and brutal laws against homosexuality. However, considering the tenure of his work -- I truly wonder if a part of the reason why he came forward to take a strong stance against these laws, is because he's a prominent proponent of interfaith unity and inclusionism, and therefore, he doesn't want to offend homosexuals and their powerful allies in the media and government. He wants to win them over -- not to salvation in Jesus Christ -- but to his global P.E.A.C.E. plan.

Interfaith leaders believe that everyone (including sexual deviants) should unite and work together as 'one big happy family.' So, in an attempt to make homosexuals feel comfortable and acceptable before God -- they either take a soft compromising position on homosexuality (like Warren or Joel Osteen) or they blatantly support it with pro-homosexual theology and vilify those who consider it a sin (like Carlton Pearson, Shelby Spong, or Desmond Tutu).

I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance against any sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
I can understand that Rick Warren felt it necessary to refute false rumors that he supported unjust and brutal laws against homosexuality. However, considering the tenure of his work -- I truly wonder if a part of the reason why he came forward to take a strong stance against these laws, is because he's a prominent proponent of interfaith unity and inclusionism, and therefore, he doesn't want to offend homosexuals and their powerful allies in the media and government. He wants to win them over -- not to salvation in Jesus Christ -- but to his global P.E.A.C.E. plan.

Interfaith leaders believe that everyone (including sexual deviants) should unite and work together as 'one big happy family.' So, in an attempt to make homosexuals feel comfortable and acceptable before God -- they either take a soft compromising position on homosexuality (like Warren or Joel Osteen) or they blatantly support it with pro-homosexual theology and vilify those who consider it a sin (like Carlton Pearson, Shelby Spong, or Desmond Tutu).

I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance against any sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

Amen FreeIndeed. Rick Warren is certainly not speaking out against the inhumane violence toward homosexuals because he cares about violence. He is doing it to gain their support. After all, if he was concerned about inhumane acts committed against humans he would speak out against all the brutal acts of violence towards the saints in other countries. Not one of these "leaders" have done that, nor have they tried to bring awareness to the people they lead about such things.
 

JaneBond007

New Member
I do believe that ministers of Jesus Christ should take a strong stance againstany sort of barbaric inhumane laws. But more importantly, they should take a strong uncompromising stance on the word of God and not compromise for the sake of "global peace" and "unity" with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. Warren consistently dilutes the Gospel, denies John 14:6, and ignores the Scriptural prohibition not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

FreeIndeed

Recently, I was reading an article on witchcraft and the catholic apologist's response to family members in it. In general, the catholic approach is to genuinely look at someone's faith from a perspective of truth and not speculation and disdain. Afterall, we know that there are universal truths and the prefigurement of Christ in times long before His incarnation (ex., g-ddess and child figures, Hindu personalities and names of the g-ds, virgin births etc.) and that these truths are revealed to differing people and expressed through their understanding of the cosmos.

Well, in the article, the question was raised as to what a catholic should say/believe about someone in witchcraft if sharing the gospel (implied) - not forcibly, but within an equal conversation - and it was said that we should know the truths based upon that other perspective or in this particular case, no assumption (that wiccans do not believe in Satan). So, charging them with worshipping Satan would be a falsehood:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link
If someone you know is dabbling in witchcraft, here are five things you should know before starting a conversation with him. [excerpted]

Witches do not believe in Satan.

Witchcraft and Wicca are not synonyms.
Witches question authority....

(Thus, the perfect response is to be prepared and to examine self first because, )
**Not all are called to be apologists. If you are not intellectually and spiritually prepared to answer the claims of witchcraft, leave such work to others. Search out knowledgeable Catholics with whom your loved one can speak.

...
**Prepare oneself
...
**Pray
...

-------------------------------------------

In other words, know what you're talking about and by all mean, recognize all humans are His. We catholics pride ourselves on that and are reminded over and over again to make sure we know the truth by staying true to the teachings of the Magisterium, which is basically the authority to teach the universal church the truth of Christ and to bring us all in union with one another. I do hope this analogy might be of value to you.
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Hello Galadriel,

Yes, I'm aware that there are Catholics here. Why do you ask?

Hi FreeIndeed...

First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord. This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We also have Sisters of Seventh Day Adventists and there are a few Mormons here, who may be 'silent', but they are here and they love God.

I agree that we are not to compromise God's Word and to stand upon John 14:6 (that no man comes unto the Father except through Jesus Christ). If no one else, I think that I am the hardest rebel of all who are in this Forum, meaning that I've come hard on just about everyone who did not believe as I believe.

The Sisters here who are Catholic, SDA and some Mormon, I've come to know them and even more, I've come to know their hearts outside of their denomination. My girls, Galadriel, Lady Belle, and Jane Bond, KtyKaty, I wouldn't trade their hearts for the world. They keep me straight and on my toes.

Not too long ago, ktykaty was loving enough to remind me of a scripture reference that I had omitted. I thank God for her doing so, otherwise many people would have been mislead by something I said in error.

Galadriel has so much wisdom and knowledge and knows God's Word and will continue to stand against any political challenge that comes our direction. She has bailed me out of many a controversial battle regarding social errors against Christianity.

Belle Du Jour, has such beautiful insight regarding Marriage and it's not surface insight, it's God's insight and His wisdom.

JaneBond007, will take you into history accounts that were once hidden and she has no shame nor fear in posting the Truth regarding issues that many will not talk about. These are our Catholic Sisters and there are several others who do not fall onto what others may view negative about the Catholic Faith. These women give life to knowing God for who He is.

It's because of them, that I see more of God than what I see in just me. They truly love God and they love everyone here. They do not force their faith upon anyone, but they will love you no matter what. Therefore, I do my best not to hurt them. They don't deserve it. The bottom line is that we all share and love Jesus. We will love you too. :love2:
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Recently, I was reading an article on witchcraft and the catholic apologist's response to family members in it. In general, the catholic approach is to genuinely look at someone's faith from a perspective of truth and not speculation and disdain. Afterall, we know that there are universal truths and the prefigurement of Christ in times long before His incarnation (ex., g-ddess and child figures, Hindu personalities and names of the g-ds, virgin births etc.) and that these truths are revealed to differing people and expressed through their understanding of the cosmos.

Well, in the article, the question was raised as to what a catholic should say/believe about someone in witchcraft if sharing the gospel (implied) - not forcibly, but within an equal conversation - and it was said that we should know the truths based upon that other perspective or in this particular case, that wiccans do not believe in Satan. So, charging them with worshipping Satan would be a falsehood:
Link
If someone you know is dabbling in witchcraft, here are five things you should know before starting a conversation with him. [excerpted]

Witches do not believe in Satan.
Witchcraft and Wicca are not synonyms.
Witches question authority....

(Thus, the perfect response is to be prepared and to examine self first because, )
**Not all are called to be apologists. If you are not intellectually and spiritually prepared to answer the claims of witchcraft, leave such work to others. Search out knowledgeable Catholics with whom your loved one can speak.

...
**Prepare oneself
...
**Pray
...
-------------------------------------------

In other words, know what you're talking about and by all mean, recognize all humans are His. We catholics pride ourselves on that and are reminded over and over again to make sure we know the truth by staying true to the teachings of the Magisterium, which is basically the authority to teach the universal church the truth of Christ and to bring us all in union with one another.

JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.
 

JaneBond007

New Member
JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.



My walking hand-in-hand with someone of another faith for the good of protecting this land and its people is not an offense to Jesus. He talked to Samaritans - those who challenged and changed the Hebraic law and became outcasts. My walking hand-in-hand against human rights abuses is not an offense to Jesus if we are approaching Nazi WWII socially and politically as homosexuals are openly discriminated against. Jesus is the Truth. But remember, He never shoved it down anyone's throat. All come freely. It's a different manner when one is talking of human rights. Actually, how a christian behaves regarding all human rights is the best indicator of the veracity of his faith. We are not within justice to advocate harm against another, gay or not. If we look to history and place ourselves into the place of whites trying to stand up for emancipation, it's not much different.

Isaiah 1:17 ESV / 544 helpful votes

Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

Zechariah 7:9-10 ESV / 313 helpful votes

“Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”


Jeremiah 22:3 ESV / 252 helpful votes

Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.
 
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PinkPebbles

Well-Known Member
Hi @FreeIndeed...

First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord. This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We also have Sisters of Seventh Day Adventists and there are a few Mormons here, who may be 'silent', but they are here and they love God.

I agree that we are not to compromise God's Word and to stand upon John 14:6 (that no man comes unto the Father except through Jesus Christ). If no one else, I think that I am the hardest rebel of all who are in this Forum, meaning that I've come hard on just about everyone who did not believe as I believe.

The Sisters here who are Catholic, SDA and some Mormon, I've come to know them and even more, I've come to know their hearts outside of their denomination. My girls, @Galadriel, Lady Belle, and Jane Bond, KtyKaty, I wouldn't trade their hearts for the world. They keep me straight and on my toes.

Not too long ago, @ktykaty was loving enough to remind me of a scripture reference that I had omitted. I thank God for her doing so, otherwise many people would have been mislead by something I said in error.

@Galadriel has so much wisdom and knowledge and knows God's Word and will continue to stand against any political challenge that comes our direction. She has bailed me out of many a controversial battle regarding social errors against Christianity.

@Belle Du Jour, has such beautiful insight regarding Marriage and it's not surface insight, it's God's insight and His wisdom.

@JaneBond007, will take you into history accounts that were once hidden and she has no shame nor fear in posting the Truth regarding issues that many will not talk about. These are our Catholic Sisters and there are several others who do not fall onto what others may view negative about the Catholic Faith. These women give life to knowing God for who He is.

It's because of them, that I see more of God than what I see in just me. They truly love God and they love everyone here. They do not force their faith upon anyone, but they will love you no matter what. Therefore, I do my best not to hurt them. They don't deserve it. The bottom line is that we all share and love Jesus. We will love you too. :love2:

Shimmie this is a beautiful post and I'm in total agreement.

One thing I can say about my Catholic sisters in this forum and outside of this forum is that they know how to LOVE. And that is the greatest commandment in the bible.

One can prophesize, speak in tongues, preach, judge, etc but if they never learned how to love like Christ all those things means absolutely nothing.

Catholics are part of the body of Christ. I visited a Catholic church and the presence of God was there. And I will continue to occasionally visit a Catholic church :yep:.

I will now exit this thread and go back to work....
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
My walking hand-in-hand with someone of another faith for the good of protecting this land and its people is not an offense to Jesus. He talked to Samaritans - those who challenged and changed the Hebraic law and became outcasts. My walking hand-in-hand against human rights abuses is not an offense to Jesus if we are approaching Nazi WWII socially and politically as homosexuals are openly discriminated against. Jesus is the Truth. But remember, He never shoved it down anyone's throat. All come freely. It's a different manner when one is talking of human rights. Actually, how a christian behaves regarding all human rights is the best indicator of the veracity of his faith.

Excuse me? Christ demanded that they repent and come to him as Lord. Walking hand in hand with anybody who does not believe the Gospel is not something a believer does, even when it seems good. That's secular humanism, not Christianity. It's apostasy at its best. The best indicator of the veracity of disciple of Christ is conformity to His character and His nature, not joining a secular humanist movement with enemies of the Gospel of Christ. Jesus didn't do that.
Luke 13:1-5 KJV
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? [3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

^^^That's not the secular humanist jesus being preached in apostate Christianity today.
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
JaneBond, Christ made very exclusive claims. He alone is Truth, which makes every religion that denies him false. Where do we see the apostles uniting with other religions? We don't. They preached Christ without compromise. And any true believer does the same.

JB is saying in order to preach Christ and the Truth, you have to understand other people and where they're coming from, so that you can help introduce them to the Gospel.

Remember when Paul spoke near the altar dedicated to the "unknown God" that had been erected? He challenged the people's pre-held beliefs/assumptions and introduced them to God, to the idea that He is very knowable, and has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ (who is True God and True Man). This is the approach JaneBond is speaking of--where you look at others' beliefs and say, "Okay, I see you believe in this...but now, let me introduce you to The Gospel that Jesus Christ handed to us." I think that's very powerful testimony, and a great way to evangelize.

Hurling inaccurate and ignorant statements at people will only make you look foolish. But preaching the Gospel fearlessly, and with a fiery passion and love, will never make one look foolish.

I don't believe in watering down the Gospel. I am not very familiar with Pastor Warren, so I can't comment on his record, and I *hope* he is able to minister to people without putting morality, or sexual morality to the side for the sake of feelings. More than ever we need men and women to fearlessly stand up for truth.

And guess what? We can stand up for truth without being jerks about it. I'm sure you've seen me debate in Off Topic--I don't have to call names, condemn people to hell, insult or degrade them, or e-fight. Okay, I admit I do get sarcastic sometimes, but that's just a personality quirk of mine. Some of the people I debate with are very smart and I like them :yep:. I believe they're WRONG :lol: but I can still communicate my beliefs without stomping on others.
 

FreeIndeed

Member
Hi FreeIndeed...

First I welcome you to our Christian Forum which is filled with many, many, hearts of women (and men) who truly love the Lord. This includes our Catholic Sisters and Brothers who put their hearts into loving, praying and supporting the Faith and Foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We also have Sisters of Seventh Day Adventists and there are a few Mormons here, who may be 'silent', but they are here and they love God.

I agree that we are not to compromise God's Word and to stand upon John 14:6 (that no man comes unto the Father except through Jesus Christ). If no one else, I think that I am the hardest rebel of all who are in this Forum, meaning that I've come hard on just about everyone who did not believe as I believe.

The Sisters here who are Catholic, SDA and some Mormon, I've come to know them and even more, I've come to know their hearts outside of their denomination. My girls, Galadriel, Lady Belle, and Jane Bond, KtyKaty, I wouldn't trade their hearts for the world. They keep me straight and on my toes.

Not too long ago, ktykaty was loving enough to remind me of a scripture reference that I had omitted. I thank God for her doing so, otherwise many people would have been mislead by something I said in error.

Galadriel has so much wisdom and knowledge and knows God's Word and will continue to stand against any political challenge that comes our direction. She has bailed me out of many a controversial battle regarding social errors against Christianity.

Belle Du Jour, has such beautiful insight regarding Marriage and it's not surface insight, it's God's insight and His wisdom.

JaneBond007, will take you into history accounts that were once hidden and she has no shame nor fear in posting the Truth regarding issues that many will not talk about. These are our Catholic Sisters and there are several others who do not fall onto what others may view negative about the Catholic Faith. These women give life to knowing God for who He is.

It's because of them, that I see more of God than what I see in just me. They truly love God and they love everyone here. They do not force their faith upon anyone, but they will love you no matter what. Therefore, I do my best not to hurt them. They don't deserve it. The bottom line is that we all share and love Jesus. We will love you too. :love2:

Hello Shimmie,

Thank you for the welcome :)

In any Christian forum, I generally assume that there is a smorgasbord of religious beliefs and religions present. Some are Ecumenical (in the sense of fostering unity with Roman Catholicism), and some are not. Some are Interfaith (in the sense of fostering unity with all religions), and some are not. But I would hope that no matter where we stand, we're able to discuss spiritual matters in a civil manner and remain true to our convictions even when there are essential or minor differences. I pray that this is not one of those Christian forums where Believers who are not Ecumenical, Interfaith, or inclusionist are deemed "unloving" and "divisive" among other religious pejoratives. Hopefully the women here will see that although we may disagree, even in key areas, I do care for my neighbor (including people that I interact with online) and I will always aim to communicate graciously.

Jesus bless you
 

JaneBond007

New Member
ETA: Monies are exchanged for political support and the linings of pockets as well as religious support/ideologies. It's a long read, if you care to...I've included an excerpt. See the links for the full articles.


http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v24n4/us-christian-right-attack-on-gays-in-africa.html


"To reach Africans, U.S. evangelicals now broadcast their Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) and Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Although generally disinterested in helping poor Blacks in their own backyard, in Africa U.S. White conservatives driven to convert the continent dominate social services, run orphanages, schools and universities, and provide loans.[12] These conservatives and evangelical charities like World Vision, Solar Light for Africa, and the IRD-founded Five Talents use their presence in Africa to address the question of homosexuality from a conservative albeit misleading position. In this way, almost all U.S. conservative Christians working in Africa are responsible for exporting homophobia to Africa. Indeed, Africans do not distinguish between moderate evangelicals in World Vision and Hard Right figures like Scott Lively. For them, the term "evangelical" conveys the notion of Protestant Christianity as a whole, without the substantive distinctions made by U.S. religious groups. And U.S. conservative evangelicals support diverse Anglican, Presbyterian and Pentecostal church leadership in Africa with which they share no denominational tie.
For instance, the Providence Christian Reformed Church in Holland, Michigan is not an Episcopal congregation yet it provides funding to the Anglican Church of Uganda.[13] Some U.S. support goes directly to salaries, and has since 1998, as Reverend Aaron Mwesigyi of the Ugandan archibishop's office explained.[14]

... A Kenyan professor noted, "American conservatives have been in my office several times requesting that we cut ties with The Episcopal Church USA and other progressive funders in exchange for their funds. They have succeeded in getting small colleges into their camp but we have refused."[15]
The apparent plan is to encourage African church leaders to swap their relationships with mainline churches for U.S. conservative organizations and individuals.
While it is largely U.S. evangelical money displacing mainline funds supporting African churches, renewal movements within mainline U.S. churches reap the rewards by securing the alliance of Africans in fighting their battles over gay ordination and other issues at home and in international venues. This effort started as early as 1999, when members of the IRD-affiliated renewal movement in The Episcopal Church USA went to Africa to ask African bishops to support suspending the American church from the worldwide Anglican Communion for being too gay friendly and socially liberal.
More recently, IRD and United Methodist Church renewal groups organized African delegates to prevent the United Methodist Church from lifting its ban on the ordination of LGBT clergy during its global General Conference in 2008. Jerald Walz of IRD put it this way, "Wherever there is theological agreement, Americans are making ways of helping their brothers and sisters both financially and theologically…In the UMC, Americans reached out to the African delegates by helping them navigate the system... Americans are also reaching out to their African friends by giving them a voice at international gatherings."[16]
Africa's attacks on U.S. mainline churches intensified when The Episcopal Church USA consecrated an openly gay person, Gene Robinson, as a bishop in 2004. On the surface, Bishop Robinson's consecration was an Episcopal issue. However, renewal movements in the Episcopal, United Methodist, and Presbyterian churches, and other U.S. conservatives used it as an organizing tool to preach hatred against LGBT people. In addition to citing Robinson as an example of Western corruption, they partnered with African religious leaders to demand that the Episcopal Church USA be excommunicated from the worldwide Anglican Communion and replaced with conservative leadership.
The churches then used their "principled" rejection of mainline money as a fundraising opportunity. In appeals to U.S. conservatives, Canon Allison Barfoot said the Anglican church of Uganda in Kampala lacked working phones because it had rejected money from the Episcopal Church USA.[17] Two years after the Anglican Church of Kenya cut ties with the Episcopal Church USA in 2004, the Reverend Canon Rosemary Mbogo, its Provincial Mission coordinator, appealed for tithing from U.S. evangelical churches "to help the Kenyan province."[18] Their requests to U.S. conservatives appear to have been answered, since both churches confirmed that U.S. conservatives provide regular funding to churches in both countries.
U.S. evangelical money is attractive because it does not come with the demands for strict accountability made by mainline churches.[19] Bishops can spend it as they like. Ironically, U.S. conservatives have always campaigned against "unrestricted" giving in U.S. mainline churches. But in Africa, they prefer unrestricted giving as another way of undermining progressives.
Local fears that this lack of accountability breeds corruption appear well grounded. Canon Alison Barfoot, an American conservative, administers American funding at the Anglican Church of Uganda headquarters without giving African accountants any access to U.S.-related financial information or books, we learned.[20] Furthermore, dissident U.S. Episcopal Bishop John Guernsey of Woodbridge, Virginia, vets all U.S. donations and mission partnerships with Uganda to ensure they come from "friendly" churches, and other U.S. conservatives play that role for other countries, bypassing usual safeguards.[21] Their safeguards are loose enough that Bishop Samuel Sekadde, the retired Bishop of Namirembe, is under suspicion for alleged misuse of church funds.[22] The independent Uganda Monitor observed that the bishop's estates and private home suggest that "the good bishop was either living beyond his means or helping himself to church property."[23]

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It's not straight support of biblical values and using the U.S. evangelical churches and it's speakers of seminars is a way for the host country to influence it's politics for favors, etc.
 
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MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Hello Shimmie,

Thank you for the welcome :)

In any Christian forum, I generally assume that there is a smorgasbord of religious beliefs and religions present. Some are Ecumenical (in the sense of fostering unity with Roman Catholicism), and some are not. Some are Interfaith (in the sense of fostering unity with all religions), and some are not. But I would hope that no matter where we stand, we're able to discuss spiritual matters in a civil manner and remain true to our convictions even when there are essential or minor differences. I pray that this is not one of those Christian forums where Believers who are not Ecumenical, Interfaith, or inclusionist are deemed "unloving" and "divisive" among other religious pejoratives. Hopefully the women here will see that although we may disagree, even in key areas, I do care for my neighbor (including people that I interact with online) and I will always aim to communicate graciously.

Jesus bless you

Amen FreeIndeed.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
JB is saying in order to preach Christ and the Truth, you have to understand other people and where they're coming from, so that you can help introduce them to the Gospel.

Remember when Paul spoke near the altar dedicated to the "unknown God" that had been erected? He challenged the people's pre-held beliefs/assumptions and introduced them to God, to the idea that He is very knowable, and has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ (who is True God and True Man). This is the approach JaneBond is speaking of--where you look at others' beliefs and say, "Okay, I see you believe in this...but now, let me introduce you to The Gospel that Jesus Christ handed to us." I think that's very powerful testimony, and a great way to evangelize.

Hurling inaccurate and ignorant statements at people will only make you look foolish. But preaching the Gospel fearlessly, and with a fiery passion and love, will never make one look foolish.

I don't believe in watering down the Gospel. I am not very familiar with Pastor Warren, so I can't comment on his record, and I *hope* he is able to minister to people without putting morality, or sexual morality to the side for the sake of feelings. More than ever we need men and women to fearlessly stand up for truth.

And guess what? We can stand up for truth without being jerks about it. I'm sure you've seen me debate in Off Topic--I don't have to call names, condemn people to hell, insult or degrade them, or e-fight. Okay, I admit I do get sarcastic sometimes, but that's just a personality quirk of mine. Some of the people I debate with are very smart and I like them :yep:. I believe they're WRONG :lol: but I can still communicate my beliefs without stomping on others.

Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
@Shimmie this is a beautiful post and I'm in total agreement.

One thing I can say about my Catholic sisters in this forum and outside of this forum is that they know how to LOVE. And that is the greatest commandment in the bible.

One can prophesize, speak in tongues, preach, judge, etc but if they never learned how to love like Christ all those things means absolutely nothing.

Catholics are part of the body of Christ. I visited a Catholic church and the presence of God was there. And I will continue to occasionally visit a Catholic church :yep:.

I will now exit this thread and go back to work....

Thank you PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.

I'll be honest, our Catholic Sisters show a lot more love than I do. Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these :catfight:, They'll to me with this: :hug2: And set me straight regarding the issues at hand.

JaneBond007, has pulled me from many a battle on this forum, asking me to pray for someone here who was in trouble. Instead on joining in on the battle field with my 'attackers' :look:

Jane chose to Trust Me to come into another thread and pray for someone, and knowing full well that I was just :censored: someone in another thread out. No lecture, no judgment on what I may had said in a heated thread, Jane would come and ask me to pray for someone in trouble in another part of the forum. She must think a whole lot of me to even think about asking me to do so.

You've seen me in action :blah: Yet all of you still loved me anyway.

:grouphug2: We're 'Family' over here. Family. :love3:
 

JaneBond007

New Member
Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.
.

That's absolutely what the analogy means. But I hope that people read my previous post with the articles because I think it sheds light on how much of this happened. It's not kosher, imho.
 

JaneBond007

New Member
Jane chose to Trust Me to come into another thread and pray for someone, and knowing full well that I was just :censored: someone in another thread out. No lecture, no judgment on what I may had said in a heated thread, Jane would come and ask me to pray for someone in trouble in another part of the forum. She must think a whole lot of me to even think about asking me to do so.

You've seen me in action :blah: Yet all of you still loved me anyway.

:grouphug2: We're 'Family' over here. Family. :love3:


Oh dear, I don't deserve it...I'm so VERY flawed and you know it. :lol: But I'm afraid of this whole Uganda thing because if all in those articles are true, then it's pointing to corruption beginning with the seasoning from U.S. churches/missions. :perplexed I mean, this thing is HUGE. :nono: Now I wonder if those govt. and church officials in Uganda realize that they just cut off a lot of $$lifeline, unless clandestine. Lawd.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Oh dear, I don't deserve it...I'm so VERY flawed and you know it. :lol: But I'm afraid of this whole Uganda thing because if all in those articles are true, then it's pointing to corruption beginning with the seasoning from U.S. churches/missions. :perplexed I mean, this thing is HUGE. :nono: Now I wonder if those govt. and church officials in Uganda realize that they just cut off a lot of $$lifeline, unless clandestine. Lawd.

No more than I am... Sis. :giveheart:

And Uganda is very frightful. Especially making it law to report known gays to the police. What is someone is being vengeful and makes a false report purposely to get back at someone. That's horribly frightful. I wouldn't out a gay person for anything like this. :nono:
 

PinkPebbles

Well-Known Member
Thank you @PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.

I'll be honest, our Catholic Sisters show a lot more love than I do. Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these :catfight:, They'll to me with this: :hug2: And set me straight regarding the issues at hand.

@JaneBond007, has pulled me from many a battle on this forum, asking me to pray for someone here who was in trouble. Instead on joining in on the battle field with my 'attackers' :look:

Jane chose to Trust Me to come into another thread and pray for someone, and knowing full well that I was just :censored: someone in another thread out. No lecture, no judgment on what I may had said in a heated thread, Jane would come and ask me to pray for someone in trouble in another part of the forum. She must think a whole lot of me to even think about asking me to do so.

You've seen me in action :blah: Yet all of you still loved me anyway.

:grouphug2: We're 'Family' over here. Family. :love3:

Shimmie that's wonderful :)

I can relate b/c God used a Catholic sister to teach me more about godly love, forgiveness, and healing. God used that moment to truly free my soul. I will be forever grateful :love2:

And yes we are 'family' over here...always learning from one another and encouraging each other in the Lord.
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Galadriel, that is not what she said. In order to avoid deterring the thread I'll make this short... Paul preached the Gospel of Christ and told them God demands repentance. Steering someone in the right direction is done by preaching truth, period. All who deny Christ are in error. Denial of Christ may be by worshipping false gods after hearing the truth, believing a lie, promoting a false Gospel and anything else of the sort.

JaneBond007 disagrees with the Ugandan law, and said she would join with others to protest that law because it is extreme and unjust. She said nothing of compromising her beliefs or ignoring them.

For the record, I also disagree with the law.

You know, there are actually secular/humanist pro-lifers who protest abortion--and I would totally protest abortion along with them. JB sees an injustice, and she's willing to protest it with anyone willing to join her, who have that same goal in mind.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
JaneBond007 disagrees with the Ugandan law, and said she would join with others to protest that law because it is extreme and unjust. She said nothing of compromising her beliefs or ignoring them.

For the record, I also disagree with the law.

You know, there are actually secular/humanist pro-lifers who protest abortion--and I would totally protest abortion along with them. JB sees an injustice, and she's willing to protest it with anyone willing to join her, who have that same goal in mind.

Oh. OK....
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Thank you @PinkPebbles .. Amen to what you've shared.

I'll be honest, our Catholic Sisters show a lot more love than I do. Whenever I'm in the middle of one of these :catfight:, They'll to me with this: :hug2: And set me straight regarding the issues at hand.

Aww, you're a sweetheart, Shimmie :grin: We all have to watch out for each other and correct each other from time to time.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Aww, you're a sweetheart, @Shimmie :grin: We all have to watch out for each other and correct each other from time to time.

:bighug:

Plus my Dad and his parents were Catholic. He and my Mom were married in a Catholic Church. Now my Mom was raised Baptist. :look:

I rebelled and became a non-denominational with a Pentecostal platform, but grew up as an SDA at Sunset on Friday and all day on Saturday and Catholic Baptist services on Sunday.

I'm sooooo confused.... :lol:
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
:bighug:

Plus my Dad and his parents were Catholic. He and my Mom were married in a Catholic Church. Now my Mom was raised Baptist. :look:

I rebelled and became a non-denominational with a Pentecostal platform, but grew up as an SDA at Sunset on Friday and all day on Saturday and Catholic Baptist services on Sunday.

I'm sooooo confused.... :lol:


Does that make you multi-denominational? :lachen:
 
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