The Christian Left...

SummerSolstice

New Member
Here is their website. http://www.thechristianleft.org/
What do you think? I was intrigued because I consider myself to be somewhat moderate and I dont really identify with the Republicans, just because they skew the WORD to push their greedy agendas... but I digress...
I want to share this website and facebook group with my friends but I'm having a hard time determining what their doctrine is on that site.
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Here is their website. http://www.thechristianleft.org/
What do you think? I was intrigued because I consider myself to be somewhat moderate and I dont really identify with the Republicans, just because they skew the WORD to push their greedy agendas... but I digress...
I want to share this website and facebook group with my friends but I'm having a hard time determining what their doctrine is on that site.

Man, oh man...where do I start (thanks for the link, btw!)

The "Christian Left" website/organization (by glancing at their page) appears to be a group of Christians who espouse "Leftist" or "Liberal" political and social viewpoints--and bits of other things.

website statements below are in blue and my responses in black.
Bolds and underlines are for emphasis.

Please note, there will be a bit of sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek comments on my part.

----------------------------------

We’re Christians. We’re Liberal. We make no apologies. In fact Jesus' ways are “Liberal.” That’s why He was killed. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were the conservatives of their time.

People have tried making Jesus a "political Messiah"--certain followers in 33 AD who wanted an earthly Messiah who would defeat the Roman Empire and take back Jerusalem, the Liberation Theologists of the 20th Century, etc.

Jesus Christ is not a political Messiah, and I reject that He was the standard-bearer for modern liberals and the Pharisees and Saducees stood in the place of modern conservatives. Jesus wasn't crucified because He was "liberal" (and I'd like to see their definition of "liberal" for Jesus here), Christ was killed because 1) It was in the Divine Plan. No Sacrifice, no Redemption 2) Those who rejected Him did so out of fear of losing their earthly power/prestige, or fear of having their sins exposed, or of their love of darkness rather than the Light.

Holding the view that Christ was some type of social-political Messiah with a cool spiritual ideal is what leads people to start proclaiming that "Well, Christ REALLY didn't come to die on the Cross...He really came to teach us how to live, and they just rejected Him and it turned out that way."

See, it wasn’t just Jesus’ birth, death, and resurrection that matter. It was his life too! The life he lived is a huge part of the deal, and he asked us to do a few things if you look at his words. Not only is what Jesus said the Word of God, but what Jesus DID is also the Word of God. Looking at the life of Jesus we see that Jesus made room for those cut off from the rest of society. Jesus put a name and a face on all who had been forgotten or pushed aside, even the dead. Jesus called us to carry our cross daily and follow him. That’s what Social Justice means.

A noble goal indeed. God expects compassion and mercy of us. In the early Church, this was especially true because the ancient Romans looked upon forgiveness, mercy, etc. as weaknesses and undesirable qualities. When they left their infants in the streets to die, Christians would take them in and care for them. Christians fed the hungry, and cared for the sick and downtrodden. Christians started the University system and hospitals in the West.

Scripture says that God heals the broken heart, and I think that's beautiful. If God cares about us with such perfect love and compassion, then as His children we ought to do the same :yep:.

The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important.

"Social Justice" is a political activity and ideology, not theology or moral virtue. "Renunciation of power" is meaningless because power in and of itself is not evil (abuse of power is). Private prayer is good, but Christians are also called to pray publicly (i.e., worshiping at church). Yes, Jesus cared for the poor and outcast, but His criticism of the wealthy and powerful wasn't because they possessed wealth and power--it was because they loved these things more than God. Ah, and there we go, "religious" (I'm not religious, I'm spiritual!). Nothing wrong with being religious.

The Christian Left sometimes differs from other Christian political groups on issues including homosexuality. This is often not a matter of different religious ideas, but one of focus — viewing the prohibitions against killing, or the criticism of concentrations of wealth, as far more important than social issues emphasized by the religious right, such as opposition to active homosexuality. In this case, similar to philosophies expressed by writers such as C.S. Lewis, these members of the Christian Left believe homosexual sex to be overemphasized when compared with issues relating to social justice, or even matters of sexual morality involving heterosexual sex. Bottom Line: We welcome ALL to their place at God’s table, just as they are. All means ALL. No exceptions. We reject all attempts to define our Faith by the two wedge issues of Gay Marriage and Abortion.

Now we're getting into the REAL reason the Christian Left is set against those "rule obsessed religious people." They do not accept that homosexuality is sinful and that we should resist legitimizing gay marriage. Note (on the site) that they are against war (which they call militarism) but they say they choose to put "less emphasis" on abortion (isn't abortion one of the worst forms of unjustified killing or murder?).

The Christian Left doesn’t get uptight about the same things as their right-wing brothers and sisters. Lefties tend to accept that we’re all trapped in the human condition, that we all struggle, and that we’re all sinners. They tend to focus on behaviors that Jesus focused on while he was here in body -- things like hypocrisy, organized oppression, exorbitant greed, self-righteousness, judgmentalism, selfishness, abuse of power, violence, etc.

While Our Lord definitely addressed these issues, He is also the only person in the Bible to preach/reference Hell around 15 times. I'm curious as to why the only person to speak about Hell the most in His teachings are suddenly ignored in order to "focus" on rich people and the attempt to equate conservatives/righties with the Pharisees. I see this as nothing more than an attempt to justify Christian Leftism because there are so many moral and doctrinal problems with this ideology. In other words, "Christian Left" ideology is incompatible in several ways with the Gospel, with Scripture, and the teachings of many Christian churches.

Matthew 22:34-40 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

You can't love God without keeping His commandments. Love is tied in with Justice. Morality is ordered toward the love of God. Their interpretation of this passage is an attempt to divorce morality from love of God and service of God.

The Christian Left rejects exclusivity. We believe that John the Baptist wasn’t kidding when he proclaimed the coming of Jesus saying, “and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.” We firmly believe that all means ALL. The exclusionary gospel of the Christian Right is foreign to us. We do not recognize it. Jesus came to set the captives free and announce the arrival of the peaceable kingdom of God where ALL are welcomed. Like a member of The Christian Left (Shannon Maynard) has said, one of our favorite words in the Bible is “whosoever.”


In other words, they believe the Gospel isn't the only way to salvation. Oh, shame on those "religious" hypocrites who teach otherwise.

Unfortunately in this country today, we have a sort of spiritual revival of the Pharisees --people who don’t want to practice love, grace, or compassion, but would rather try to bury people under legalistic demands that they themselves aren’t capable of keeping.

::Raising my hand:: Let me guess who they're going to define these people as?

Culturally crusading right-wing Christians have substituted the Gospel of Jesus Christ for a Gospel of Morality.

Because Jesus and morality don't mix, haven't ya heard?

They've made it more about following rules than loving God (having a relationship with Christ) and loving their fellow brothers and sisters. This is unacceptable.

Sounds familiar?

They are drained by the shame [the Gospel of Morality] produces. Far too many are repulsed by this false religious system they can't live up to.

The Gospel is the Gospel, and it is one. You can't divide it. We are called to acts of Justice and Charity, and acts of righteousness. The most charitable thing we can do for people is to lead them to Christ so that their souls may be saved. This cannot be compromised, diluted, or reworked as spiritual Marxism.
 
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Crown

New Member
Modern days Christianity!

Rev. 3 : 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
http://www.facebook.com/TheChristianLeft/posts/377439695611507

This is their facebook group... I posted this comment and look at the replies. VERRRRRRY Interesting.

:lol: Whoa, they are, huh?


Quote: "We tend to emphasize sins that hurt other people--especially MILLIONS of other people--such as warfare, greed, failing to help the poor and the sick, etc., because Jesus himself emphasized these. We deemphasize sexual sins because they weren't important to Jesus."

Quote: "...speaking for myself...I do not believe "being" homosexual is a sin. Nor do I believe that sex between consenting adults is inherently a sin. We are sexual beings, and I do not believe that sex is bad or dirty. I do believe..."
 

SummerSolstice

New Member
They're very upset with me LOL

"@[SummerSolstice]; You need to take responsibility for your own attitude toward anyone who is different from you. You are trying to justify your own bigotry by blaming it on god and/or the bible.

I can't believe god separates us like dirty laundry ... Because of our color or our 'abnormal' way of life. We are all gods children and your attempt to divide us is on you, not the bible."



eta: took out my real name
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
They're very upset with me LOL

"@[SummerSolstice]; You need to take responsibility for your own attitude toward anyone who is different from you. You are trying to justify your own bigotry by blaming it on god and/or the bible.

I can't believe god separates us like dirty laundry ... Because of our color or our 'abnormal' way of life. We are all gods children and your attempt to divide us is on you, not the bible."



eta: took out my real name

SummerSolstice, see, there you go being a hypocritical Pharisee :ohwell:
(apparently besides being rich, that's the only sin they believe in)
 

SummerSolstice

New Member
@SummerSolstice, see, there you go being a hypocritical Pharisee :ohwell:
(apparently besides being rich, that's the only sin they believe in)

Ugh there are over 63,000 people in this group! Are that many people lost :cry: this is so sad!!!!

I wish I could fix it I keep going back and forth with these people and its like talking to a brick wall.
Now someone in there said I'm a bigot for witnessing... Why is "Christian" in the title of the group if you don't believe in witnessing?
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Laela did you see my pm? :nono: I think that their intentions are for the best but they came down on me hard

Unfortunately, they are mislead and they are choosing to mislead others with a false doctrine. Their intentions are actually rebellious against what Gods says not to do. They want to follow their rules not Gods.
They're not Christians ..... :nono:
 

Crown

New Member
Stay in the Word.
Abide in Him.

2 Tim. 3 : 12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Jude 1 : 22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
They're very upset with me LOL

"@[SummerSolstice]; You need to take responsibility for your own attitude toward anyone who is different from you. You are trying to justify your own bigotry by blaming it on god and/or the bible.

I can't believe god separates us like dirty laundry ... Because of our color or our 'abnormal' way of life. We are all gods children and your attempt to divide us is on you, not the bible."



eta: took out my real name

Hey Love... I wouldn't lose sleep over their comments. :nono: Sooner than later, they will have to take responsibility for their lack of respect for the Truth which is written in God's Word.

Of course they are going to 'attack' you and make you the person in error. They are not Christians. :nono: They have their 'own' God and it's not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just keep praying for them; for their deliverance. If they 'love' God they will not try and 'change' Him. They will accept His Truth in it's fullness. They will follow God in his Truth and Fullness, they will forsake all evil and follow the Truth and not justify sin which they have chosen to live in. They will believe God and not themselves; as they have become those who have become their own god, instead of Jesus as their Lord and Truth.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
:lol: Whoa, they are, huh?


Quote: "We tend to emphasize sins that hurt other people--especially MILLIONS of other people--such as warfare, greed, failing to help the poor and the sick, etc., because Jesus himself emphasized these. We deemphasize sexual sins because they weren't important to Jesus."

Quote: "...speaking for myself...I do not believe "being" homosexual is a sin. Nor do I believe that sex between consenting adults is inherently a sin. We are sexual beings, and I do not believe that sex is bad or dirty. I do believe..."

Whoa, is right. This is a group of those who are 'Justifiers'. They love the sin they are in and they are defacing the honour of God by deflecting tactics which are smoke screens. Such as they want to help people, the poor the sick, they don't want to hurt people.... etc... Pure and total 'smoke screens' used to deflect their sexual sin that they wish to live in.

They need to leave God out of it; for God is no where in any of this confusion. :nono:
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Man, oh man...where do I start (thanks for the link, btw!)

The "Christian Left" website/organization (by glancing at their page) appears to be a group of Christians who espouse "Leftist" or "Liberal" political and social viewpoints--and bits of other things (website statements in blue).

Please note, there will be a bit of sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek comments on my part.


We’re Christians. We’re Liberal. We make no apologies. In fact Jesus' ways are “Liberal.” That’s why He was killed. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were the conservatives of their time.

People have tried making Jesus a "political Messiah"--certain followers in 33 AD who wanted an earthly Messiah who would defeat the Roman Empire and take back Jerusalem, the Liberation Theologists of the 20th Century, etc.

Jesus Christ is not a political Messiah, and I reject that He was the standard-bearer for modern liberals and the Pharisees and Saducees stood in the place of modern conservatives. Jesus wasn't crucified because He was "liberal" (and I'd like to see their definition of "liberal" for Jesus here), Christ was killed because 1) It was in the Divine Plan. No Sacrifice, no Redemption 2) Those who rejected Him did so out of fear of losing their earthly power/prestige, or fear of having their sins exposed, or of their love of darkness rather than the Light.

Holding the view that Christ was some type of social-political Messiah with a cool spiritual ideal is what leads people to start proclaiming that "Well, Christ REALLY didn't come to die on the Cross...He really came to teach us how to live, and they just rejected Him and it turned out that way."

See, it wasn’t just Jesus’ birth, death, and resurrection that matter. It was his life too! The life he lived is a huge part of the deal, and he asked us to do a few things if you look at his words. Not only is what Jesus said the Word of God, but what Jesus DID is also the Word of God. Looking at the life of Jesus we see that Jesus made room for those cut off from the rest of society. Jesus put a name and a face on all who had been forgotten or pushed aside, even the dead. Jesus called us to carry our cross daily and follow him. That’s what Social Justice means.

A noble goal indeed. God expects compassion and mercy of us. In the early Church, this was especially true because the ancient Romans looked upon forgiveness, mercy, etc. as weaknesses and undesirable qualities. When they left their infants in the streets to die, Christians would take them in and care for them. Christians fed the hungry, and cared for the sick and downtrodden. Christians started the University system and hospitals in the West.

Scripture says that God heals the broken heart, and I think that's beautiful. If God cares about us with such perfect love and compassion, then as His children we ought to do the same :yep:.

The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important.

"Social Justice" is a political activity and ideology, not theology or moral virtue. "Renunciation of power" is meaningless because power in and of itself is not evil (abuse of power is). Private prayer is good, but Christians are also called to pray publicly (i.e., worshiping at church). Yes, Jesus cared for the poor and outcast, but His criticism of the wealthy and powerful wasn't because they possessed wealth and power--it was because they loved these things more than God. Ah, and there we go, "religious" (I'm not religious, I'm spiritual!). Nothing wrong with being religious.

The Christian Left sometimes differs from other Christian political groups on issues including homosexuality. This is often not a matter of different religious ideas, but one of focus — viewing the prohibitions against killing, or the criticism of concentrations of wealth, as far more important than social issues emphasized by the religious right, such as opposition to active homosexuality. In this case, similar to philosophies expressed by writers such as C.S. Lewis, these members of the Christian Left believe homosexual sex to be overemphasized when compared with issues relating to social justice, or even matters of sexual morality involving heterosexual sex. Bottom Line: We welcome ALL to their place at God’s table, just as they are. All means ALL. No exceptions. We reject all attempts to define our Faith by the two wedge issues of Gay Marriage and Abortion.

Now we're getting into the REAL reason the Christian Left is set against those "rule obsessed religious people." They do not accept that homosexuality is sinful and that we should resist legitimizing gay marriage. Note (on the site) that they are against war (which they call militarism) but they say they choose to put "less emphasis" on abortion (isn't abortion one of the worst forms of unjustified killing or murder?).

The Christian Left doesn’t get uptight about the same things as their right-wing brothers and sisters. Lefties tend to accept that we’re all trapped in the human condition, that we all struggle, and that we’re all sinners. They tend to focus on behaviors that Jesus focused on while he was here in body -- things like hypocrisy, organized oppression, exorbitant greed, self-righteousness, judgmentalism, selfishness, abuse of power, violence, etc.

While Our Lord definitely addressed these issues, He is also the only person in the Bible to preach/reference Hell around 15 times. I'm curious as to why the only person to speak about Hell the most in His teachings are suddenly ignored in order to "focus" on rich people and the attempt to equate conservatives/righties with the Pharisees. I see this as nothing more than an attempt to justify Christian Leftism because there are so many moral and doctrinal problems with this ideology. In other words, "Christian Left" ideology is incompatible in several ways with the Gospel, with Scripture, and the teachings of many Christian churches.

Matthew 22:34-40 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

You can't love God without keeping His commandments. Love is tied in with Justice. Morality is ordered toward the love of God. Their interpretation of this passage is an attempt to divorce morality from love of God and service of God.

The Christian Left rejects exclusivity. We believe that John the Baptist wasn’t kidding when he proclaimed the coming of Jesus saying, “and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.” We firmly believe that all means ALL. The exclusionary gospel of the Christian Right is foreign to us. We do not recognize it. Jesus came to set the captives free and announce the arrival of the peaceable kingdom of God where ALL are welcomed. Like a member of The Christian Left (Shannon Maynard) has said, one of our favorite words in the Bible is “whosoever.”


In other words, they believe the Gospel isn't the only way to salvation. Oh, shame on those "religious" hypocrites who teach otherwise.

Unfortunately in this country today, we have a sort of spiritual revival of the Pharisees --people who don’t want to practice love, grace, or compassion, but would rather try to bury people under legalistic demands that they themselves aren’t capable of keeping.

::Raising my hand:: Let me guess who they're going to define these people as?

Culturally crusading right-wing Christians have substituted the Gospel of Jesus Christ for a Gospel of Morality.

Because Jesus and morality don't mix, haven't ya heard?

They've made it more about following rules than loving God (having a relationship with Christ) and loving their fellow brothers and sisters. This is unacceptable.

Sounds familiar?

They are drained by the shame [the Gospel of Morality] produces. Far too many are repulsed by this false religious system they can't live up to.

The Gospel is the Gospel, and it is one. You can't divide it. We are called to acts of Justice and Charity, and acts of righteousness. The most charitable thing we can do for people is to lead them to Christ so that their souls may be saved. This cannot be compromised, diluted, or reworked as spiritual Marxism.

Galadriel...

Thanks Gala... :thanks: for posting the truth here.

May I ask a favour? When you have a moment, can you define your comments and note them as yours [the Truth] from theirs [deception]?

This is vital what you have shared. :up: And I simply want there to absolutely no mistake by anyone who comes across this thread in the future, which comments are theirs and which are yours, for yours stands out as the Truth.

ETA: I 'see' it :yep: Thanks so much for making the distinction in your comments vs theirs... :up:
 
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Crown

New Member
I think we don't have to say : they are not Christians.
Laodicea is seen as a part of the Church (to be corrected).
But concerning doctrines, we have to discern the truth from the false.

Let's strive to be like Philadelphia and not Laodicea.

Rev. 3 :
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member


I think we don't have to say : they are not Christians.



They're not... :nono:

homosexuality? gay marriage? cohabitation without marriage? It's a cult.

It's smoked screened by 'good works'. Anyone can perform good works. Anthiests do so everyday, with or without tax breaks.
 
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Crown

New Member
They're not... :nono:

homosexuality? gay marriage? cohabitation without marriage? It's a cult.

It's smoked screened by 'good works'. Anyone can perform good works. Anthiests do so everyday, with or without tax breaks.

We can agree to disagree!

Maybe it's just semantics, but I tend to not judge who is in hell or in heaven, who is Christian and who is not.
God is The Judge!
All we can ? : their fruits. Not good at all!

Let's take the parable of the lost son : he was Lost, but he was Son.
He did not have the deeds of a son, but he was a son.

Luke 15 :
20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants... Let’s have a feast and celebrate.24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
We can agree to disagree!

Maybe it's just semantics, but I tend to not judge who is in hell or in heaven, who is Christian and who is not.
God is The Judge!
All we can ? : their fruits. Not good at all!

Let's take the parable of the lost son : he was Lost, but he was Son.
He did not have the deeds of a son, but he was a son.

Luke 15 :
20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.


22 “But the father said to his servants... Let’s have a feast and celebrate.24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

Crown, this is a group for people to stay away from. Their teachings are 'away' from Christ not towards Him. They do not encourage repentance; but exceptance of any lifestyle and they cover it up by over emphazing 'good works', feeding the poor, hungry, etc.

Christianity is about repentence. This 'Left' ministry is not repentant.

What is your point regarding the parable of the Prodical Son which is about the 90 and 9 whom God will leave (for they are with Him) to go after the one who has left / wandered astray and lost his way. It speaks of the great and merciful love of God to go after that one / in this case to not give up on that one. The son 'came to himself'... he repented of his foolishness and rebellion and acknowledged that he was wrong. He humbled himself to return to his father, even to the point of living as a servant, he was humbled to admit his error/his sin and to live in right standing.

What your point in sharing this parable [that everyone knows] regarding this cult which teaches against holiness, against being right with God, with a smoke screen which encourages good works to bring about salvation, 'good works' of which no man can boast ... 'good works' which will not get anyone into Heaven.

Important Note: I apologize if my 'tone' appears harsh. It's not... :nono: I have no oughts against you. I mean this sincerely.
 

Crown

New Member
Crown, this is a group for people to stay away from. Their teachings are 'away' from Christ not towards Him. They do not encourage repentance; but exceptance of any lifestyle and they cover it up by over emphazing 'good works', feeding the poor, hungry, etc.

Christianity is about repentence. This 'Left' ministry is not repentant.

What is your point regarding the parable of the Prodical Son which is about the 90 and 9 whom God will leave (for they are with Him) to go after the one who has left / wandered astray and lost his way. It speaks of the great and merciful love of God to go after that one / in this case to not give up on that one. The son 'came to himself'... he repented of his foolishness and rebellion and acknowledged that he was wrong. He humbled himself to return to his father, even to the point of living as a servant, he was humbled to admit his error/his sin and to live in right standing.

What your point in sharing this parable [that everyone knows] regarding this cult which teaches against holiness, against being right with God, with a smoke screen which encourages good works to bring about salvation, 'good works' of which no man can boast ... 'good works' which will not get anyone into Heaven.

Important Note: I apologize if my 'tone' appears harsh. It's not... :nono: I have no oughts against you. I mean this sincerely.

Shimmie, don't be mad at me!
I don't know them!

If they are a cult, I don't know!
Some say SDA, Jehovah witnesses... are cults.
Some say Catholics are not Christians.

My point : it's not to me to judge who is Christian or who is not Christian.

But, for sure : they are wrong!
 

Crown

New Member
What your point in sharing this parable [that everyone knows] regarding this cult which teaches against holiness, against being right with God, with a smoke screen which encourages good works to bring about salvation, 'good works' of which no man can boast ... 'good works' which will not get anyone into Heaven.

By the way, as Christians constantly searching for the truth as the Bereans did (Acts 17), we don't have to believe in the everyone knows that.

My daughter was complaining: why do we have to read the Old Testament every year? Just one time is enough, the New Testament is more interesting.
And two days after, when reading in Leviticus :
Now I understand Acts 2! The Israelites can only celebrate the feast at Jerusalem.

We have to constantly remember the scriptures and live by the Word.

Each time we read the scriptures, even what we already know, we find spiritual food.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Shimmie, don't be mad at me!
I don't know them!

If they are a cult, I don't know!
Some say SDA, Jehovah witnesses... are cults.
Some say Catholics are not Christians.

My point : it's not to me to judge who is Christian or who is not Christian.

But, for sure : they are wrong!

I'm not mad at you... I purposely made that clear in my post above. When topics such as these arise, I go hard on the topic and it often appears that I'm going hard on the individual who is posting.

I appreciate you, always did. Your word knowledge is explosive and it's needed; especially for those of that group who are reading this thread (and they are indeed reading this forum to the point of 'quoting' us. ... :yep:).

I also respect your stance to not 'call them out'.

We're not in disagreement [which in forum format means to argue], instead we simply do not share the same views about this group. :yep:

In total peace, I'll leave it at that. :love2:
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
By the way, as Christians constantly searching for the truth as the Bereans did (Acts 17), we don't have to believe in the everyone knows that.

My daughter was complaining: why do we have to read the Old Testament every year? Just one time is enough, the New Testament is more interesting.
And two days after, when reading in Leviticus :
Now I understand Acts 2! The Israelites can only celebrate the feast at Jerusalem.

We have to constantly remember the scriptures and live by the Word.

Each time we read the scriptures, even what we already know, we find spiritual food. ]

You're absolutely right. :yep:

Each time we read God's Word, we receive a new meaning to each scripture that we've read times over. God's Word is 'quick'... 'alive' which means it gives us 'New Life' each time we partake of it. It is perpetual, unending, a revolving cycle which takes us from one level to the next.
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Crown, I definitely understand where you're coming from. I think what Shimmie means (and I'd agree with her) is that while many members of that organization are individual Christians (who unfortunately teach/believe heresy), that the organization as an organization isn't a truly Christian one.



We can agree to disagree!

Maybe it's just semantics, but I tend to not judge who is in hell or in heaven, who is Christian and who is not.
God is The Judge!
All we can ? : their fruits. Not good at all!

Let's take the parable of the lost son : he was Lost, but he was Son.
He did not have the deeds of a son, but he was a son.

Luke 15 :
20 So he got up and went to his father.“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants... Let’s have a feast and celebrate.24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
 

SummerSolstice

New Member
By the way, as Christians constantly searching for the truth as the Bereans did (Acts 17), we don't have to believe in the everyone knows that.

My daughter was complaining: why do we have to read the Old Testament every year? Just one time is enough, the New Testament is more interesting.
And two days after, when reading in Leviticus :
Now I understand Acts 2! The Israelites can only celebrate the feast at Jerusalem.

We have to constantly remember the scriptures and live by the Word.

Each time we read the scriptures, even what we already know, we find spiritual food.

Crown Hi friend!

During the discussion the members of the group were telling me that Jesus didn't "pay attention" or "emphasize" sexual sin while he was here. There was a bishop in the conversation who was saying these things. There was also a gay man who told me that I was a bigot for witnessing. THere was also a woman who was saying that expressing sexual love for anyone regardless of who they are was not an issue. I guess that means children and animals too? Who knows where they would draw the line... there wasn't one...

We can't say whether or not these men will go to hell, but I was hoping that I wasn't going to be bamboozled when I joined the group. It turns out that I was. I was called a bigot and a wolf in sheeps clothing for saying that cohabitation and homosexuality were sins.
I never said they would go to hell for those sins. I even proclaimed that salvation was free to all, regardless of their choices, as long as they accepted Jesus as their savior.
I am also starting to understand that people who promote these sins without feeling any guilt at all might not be saved.

I was telling them that I would LOVE to live with my boyfriend, but it is wrong to do so... they jumped on me for that too!

So IMO, this type of group should be avoided. I am also reconsidering my alignment with liberals and democrats. I am not so sure about the republican party either, but I am seeing that all of these people are confused, sinners, and looking for justifications for their actions.

I would have even felt bad for them if they admitted to their feelings. I want to live with my boyfriend because I love him and I don't want to be away from him. But those are selfish feelings and I have to acknowledge that. God doesn't approve of certain things because they lead to consequences.

It doesn't feel good, but as a Christian you have to be able to discern when sin is sin, especially in your own life. This is not to judge, it is only for obedience, and honoring Christ with your life.
Hope that helps.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Crown, I definitely understand where you're coming from. I think what Shimmie means (and I'd agree with her) is that while many members of that organization are individual Christians (who unfortunately teach/believe heresy), that the organization as an organization isn't a truly Christian one.

Thanks Galadriel...

I have to be honest. I take a very strong issue with those who wear Christian labels, only to teach and live the very opposite of Christianity. I've learned through life that just because a person says "Jesus" or labels themselves Chrisitian, or reads the Bible or goes to Church, that it is quite deceptive. I have no problem calling them out, from the LOA's, to the Left's who refuse to acknowledge what's right. I'm calling them out.

Right now, there are gay churches on the rise. This Left organization is a 'gay' church with it's supporters. They're not fooling anybody. :nono:

Disclaimer: I'm not calling them 'bad' people. They're just not fooling anyone, that's all. It's a gay alliance and they've made it quite clear.

We had a thread here recently where a gay pastor was interviewed and well received by 'Lexi' (a professed Christian) on the 'Church Chanel' and this 'pastor' was married to his gay partner.

This gay pastor has a 'cult' following. He has a grand following of transexuals, transvestites, a totality of gender confusion, displaced gender and sexual identity who need deliverance not tolerance.

Instead, he is misleading those who refuse to repent and acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin. Instead of repentance, he (among others like him) have chosen to rebel against the Word of God, and preach their own gospel which eliminates repentance, let alone acknowledging that homosexuality is sin and taking it to the heights and degrees of inducing the lifestyle into the Church (not just society, but the Church) as normal. :nono:

They are deceiving many and recruiting followers who are choosing to rebel against the Word of God.

This Christian Left organization has chosen the right name for themselves for they have most assuredly 'Left' the pure Ministry of Christianity...which is repentance of all sins.

Jesus didn't condemn, but neither did He condone, for yet He did not say, 'Go and sin no more' to those whom He encountered in sin. As for this 'Christian Left' oraganization, they have not done so and neither do they intend to; it is written in their hearts that they do not acknowledge sin. Yet... their feel 'good works' are all that is needed. :nono:

What happens when they don't feel like doing good works? They wake up tomorrow morning or the next and do not feel like being a 'good person'? They become tired one day of going the extra mile? Giving the extra dollar to feed someone hungry; helping someone who is sick and weary?

I guess they've lost their salvation... :nono:

Truly this is another counterfeit ministry. A counterfeit bearing the name of Jesus Christ with a stickie note which has no lasting power of it's own, meaning their 'works'.

Unless it's called of God.. it's lead by satan.

In Lucifer’s fallen state he was still known as a light bringer, daystar and a son of the morning. These are all counterfeits to the real thing. We are the genuine and when we become an early riser to command the morning and capture the day, we displace the devil.

Isaiah 14:12
 
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SummerSolstice

New Member
LOL right Shimmie...
my sister was like... so they're the Christians... That left... LOLOL

It just seemed like they were like WOOOHOOO SIN!!!



oh look... theres other people doing "worse" things to other people, so my sin is ok too!!!

Oh, and PS. the other religions are fine too. If thats the case, why even have beliefs?

For me, this is just a lesson... too often I have my own justifications... I have to get better at that.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
LOL right Shimmie...
my sister was like... so they're the Christians... That left... LOLOL

It just seemed like they were like WOOOHOOO SIN!!!



oh look... theres other people doing "worse" things to other people, so my sin is ok too!!!

Oh, and PS. the other religions are fine too. If thats the case, why even have beliefs?

For me, this is just a lesson... too often I have my own justifications... I have to get better at that.

Whenever I buy loose strawberries, cherries, or grapes... etc.. I will literally stand there and pick and choose which ones I want to place in that plastic bag and purchase. And you can believe that I am the UE... the Ultimate UE .. the Pain in the Derrierre... 'picky'. :yep: :lol:

However, we can't do that with God's Word. We can't pick and choose what we want. It's all or nothing. We have to, at the very least, acknowledge that when the Bible says it's wrong than that's what it is... it's wrong. I can't justify it. I have to simply admit that it's wrong and I've chosen to do it, as wrong as it may be.

It amazes me that 'these organizations' just skipped over this OR they come up with the most bizarre explanations.

They love talking about the love of Jesus, but it's distraction, a deflecting of admitting to what is sin. This mess / actually a lie that Jesus never addressed homosexuality.

Welll, Did he have to? Was it necessary for Jesus to talk about it? Jesus made the definition of marriage QUITE CLEAR. NO where in His Ministry did Jesus condone nor did He give credence to gay marriage or any type of gay relationship.

As a matter of fact, he called out a gay person. Oh yes he did! He called out King Herod.

In Luke chapter 13 ... Jesus was going about, doing His Father's business, healing the sick, casting out demons, preaching the truth to the masses... and was suddenly approached by the Pharisees with a warning that He better up and leave... least He be killed [ordered dead] by King Herod.

The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. --- Luke 13:31

Sidebar Moment: I have to interject here... :woohoo2: :woohoo2: Jesus was NOT intimidated...

Jesus -- without fear and trembling -- without a stutter -- replied quite emphatically the following:

And He said unto them,

Go ye, and tell that fox {"the effeminate one"}, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. ----- Luke 13:32

Jesus made it clear about marriage...

And He --- JESUS --- answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, ----- Matthew 19:4


and Jesus said,

'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? ---- Matthew 19:5

-------------

What are people who say that Jesus never addressed the definition of marriage and homosexuality missing?

Matthew 19:4-5 is Crystalized; Even Jesus, Himself has asked:

Have ye not read... ?

What parts of their comprehension skills have ceased to recognize and acknowledge it is clearly written and from the heart and mouth of Jesus that marriage has been from the beginning and created by God, between a man and a woman.

Cults bring about this type of heresy and foolishness. Anything to justify why they choose to do what they do.

If folks want to sin just sin. But stop lying on God ... Just Stop! Stop lying to people, but trying to place a stickie note labeled Christian on sin. Stop lying on Jesus just to justify being gay. Just do it and call it what it is. Sin. How hard is that? Stop creating churches and lying that God is there when He is surely not there.

Repentance, turning away from the sin is the only option.

Praise God!

------------------

:wave: Hey Little Summer. I'm not angry. Just putting it out there, that's all.

For you Little Sister... :blghug:

ETA: I read the comments they 'the Left' addressed to you on their facebook page. My posts in this thread have been reflecting my response to their comments. They've since made the fb page unaccessible unless it's 'liked'.

So much for me clicking their 'like' feature. :lol:
 
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Crown

New Member
Please, I don’t want to debate.
I am not talking about sin or not.

I just don’t understand why some Christians think they have to categorize others:
She is in hell - He is in heaven – They are Christians – They are not Christians…

Tell me: Is The United Church a Christian church?
http://www.united-church.ca/exploring/marriage
http://www.united-church.ca/exploring/orientation/resources

They think so!

It’s not my business to put someone, even an organization, in a label/group or not!

If someone says : I am a Christian, it's not my business to say : no you are not! But, I can see that you don't act like one, you don't believe what the scriptures teach...

All I can say : They are wrong! Wake up!
 

Crown

New Member
@Crown Hi friend!

During the discussion the members of the group were telling me that Jesus didn't "pay attention" or "emphasize" sexual sin while he was here. There was a bishop in the conversation who was saying these things. There was also a gay man who told me that I was a bigot for witnessing. THere was also a woman who was saying that expressing sexual love for anyone regardless of who they are was not an issue. I guess that means children and animals too? Who knows where they would draw the line... there wasn't one...

We can't say whether or not these men will go to hell, but I was hoping that I wasn't going to be bamboozled when I joined the group. It turns out that I was. I was called a bigot and a wolf in sheeps clothing for saying that cohabitation and homosexuality were sins.
I never said they would go to hell for those sins. I even proclaimed that salvation was free to all, regardless of their choices, as long as they accepted Jesus as their savior.
I am also starting to understand that people who promote these sins without feeling any guilt at all might not be saved.

I was telling them that I would LOVE to live with my boyfriend, but it is wrong to do so... they jumped on me for that too!

So IMO, this type of group should be avoided. I am also reconsidering my alignment with liberals and democrats. I am not so sure about the republican party either, but I am seeing that all of these people are confused, sinners, and looking for justifications for their actions.

I would have even felt bad for them if they admitted to their feelings. I want to live with my boyfriend because I love him and I don't want to be away from him. But those are selfish feelings and I have to acknowledge that. God doesn't approve of certain things because they lead to consequences.

It doesn't feel good, but as a Christian you have to be able to discern when sin is sin, especially in your own life. This is not to judge, it is only for obedience, and honoring Christ with your life.
Hope that helps.

I totally agree with you, SummerSolstice

Let me repeat it with you :

this type of group should be avoided
 
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