Do you take the Bible literally?

CoilyFields

Well-Known Member
Didnt see this topic in the search but please let me know if its been discussed before.

I wanted to know if you took the Bible Literally?

If not, how do you judge between what actually happened and what is just an example/fable?

Just for clarification...I dont mean the parables that Jesus told. He was not talking about actual events that had happened to specific people but was using fictitious people in real-life contexts. (I think...though it is possible that since He did know everything from the begining of time that His parables did stem from actual events lol dunno).
 

loolalooh

Well-Known Member
Yes, other than the parables, I take the Bible literally. I did initially question the stories of Adam and Eve, and Noah, but upon discovering who the author was (i.e., Moses) I believe the stories to be true.
 

naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
^^^As do I. I also consider it a guide, as perfect example. Many say that it's also an ancient text and does not apply to these times. I do not agree. Every scripture I find upon reflection is pertinent to all the things going on right now!
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Didnt see this topic in the search but please let me know if its been discussed before.

I wanted to know if you took the Bible Literally?

If not, how do you judge between what actually happened and what is just an example/fable?

Just for clarification...I dont mean the parables that Jesus told. He was not talking about actual events that had happened to specific people but was using fictitious people in real-life contexts. (I think...though it is possible that since He did know everything from the begining of time that His parables did stem from actual events lol dunno).

YES ! ! !

:yep::yep::yep:

Time and again, God's Word has proven itsself to be exactly what it says it is... Literally Truth!
 

Renewed1

Well-Known Member
YES I DO!!!

I will admit those stories are GOOD! I learned one of Jacob's sons slept with his concubine and what happened etc.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
Yes, I realize that something's is literal and some are parables, and some are symbolic and prophecy all of it is useful for teaching us and showing us some examples, something's requires research hence the reason why you can't take everything literal you have to do some research as to the meaning. I heard a story one time about a man who came to visit us and asked directions to wonderland. Everyone he met laugh because you see we know there is no such place, but he didn't know that. The same is with the bible, there are things in there that made sense to the people at that time but our generation needs further searching to understand its meaning.
Jotham’s Parable
7 When Jotham heard about this, he climbed to the top of Mount Gerizim and shouted,
“Listen to me, citizens of Shechem!
Listen to me if you want God to listen to you!
8 Once upon a time the trees decided to choose a king.
First they said to the olive tree,
‘Be our king!’
9 But the olive tree refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing the olive oil
that blesses both God and people,
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’


10 “Then they said to the fig tree,
‘You be our king!’
11 But the fig tree also refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing my sweet fruit
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’
12 “Then they said to the grapevine,
‘You be our king!’
13 But the grapevine also refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing the wine
that cheers both God and people,
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’
14 “Then all the trees finally turned to the thornbush and said,
‘Come, you be our king!’
15 And the thornbush replied to the trees,
‘If you truly want to make me your king,
come and take shelter in my shade.
If not, let fire come out from me
and devour the cedars of Lebanon.’”
This is a parable can we believe its true, no, we can't we know that trees do not talk. Just as if you pulled Luke 16 apart you would know its true meaning. Which is not the story? This parable if it were true contradicts the bible in every aspect, it is not true it's a parable as the story above. But it has a purpose and an important lesson.
 

CoilyFields

Well-Known Member
blazingthru said:
Yes, I realize that something's is literal and some are parables, and some are symbolic and prophecy all of it is useful for teaching us and showing us some examples, something's requires research hence the reason why you can't take everything literal you have to do some research as to the meaning. I heard a story one time about a man who came to visit us and asked directions to wonderland. Everyone he met laugh because you see we know there is no such place, but he didn't know that. The same is with the bible, there are things in there that made sense to the people at that time but our generation needs further searching to understand its meaning.
Jotham’s Parable
7 When Jotham heard about this, he climbed to the top of Mount Gerizim and shouted,
“Listen to me, citizens of Shechem!
Listen to me if you want God to listen to you!
8 Once upon a time the trees decided to choose a king.
First they said to the olive tree,
‘Be our king!’
9 But the olive tree refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing the olive oil
that blesses both God and people,
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’

10 “Then they said to the fig tree,
‘You be our king!’
11 But the fig tree also refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing my sweet fruit
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’
12 “Then they said to the grapevine,
‘You be our king!’
13 But the grapevine also refused, saying,
‘Should I quit producing the wine
that cheers both God and people,
just to wave back and forth over the trees?’
14 “Then all the trees finally turned to the thornbush and said,
‘Come, you be our king!’
15 And the thornbush replied to the trees,
‘If you truly want to make me your king,
come and take shelter in my shade.
If not, let fire come out from me
and devour the cedars of Lebanon.’”
This is a parable can we believe its true, no, we can't we know that trees do not talk. Just as if you pulled Luke 16 apart you would know its true meaning. Which is not the story? This parable if it were true contradicts the bible in every aspect, it is not true it's a parable as the story above. But it has a purpose and an important lesson.

blazingthru
How do you determine which is literal, parable, or symbolic?

For example Luke 16 has two parables. They may not have a literally happened but the context in which they are given is true and relatable for his present audience.
But I have also heard some christians say that the story of Jonah is not true. Would you consider that story only symbolic or are you speaking of only the parables of Jesus as being symbolic?
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Lol! Care to expound? @auparavant @galadrial is there a guide in Catholicism that outlines what is literal and what isn't?

CoilyFields

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

First principle

The writer begins by dividing the genuine sense of Sacred Scripture like so:

  • the literal sense
    • its nature
    • its division
    • its ubiquity
    • its unity and multiplicity
    • The two kinds of a so-called sense of Scripture which at best bear only an analogy to the real Biblical sense:
      • the derivative or consequent sense, and
      • Biblical accommodation.
  • the typical sense.
    • its nature
    • its divisions
    • its existence
    • its occurrence in the Old Testament and in the New
    • its criterion
    • its theological value.
Second principle

In the next place the writer treats of the method of finding the genuine sense of Scripture, considering:

  • the human character of the Bible, which demands an historico-grammatical interpretation so that the commentator must keep in mind
    • the significance of the literary expression of its sacred and Scriptural language;
    • the sense of its literary expression, which is often determined by the subject matter of the writing, by its occasion and purpose, by the grammatical and logical context, and by parallel passages;
    • the historical setting of the book and its author.
  • The Divine or inspired character of the Bible requires a so-called Catholic interpretation, which involves additional directions of both
    • a negative character preventing (a) all irreverence and (b) the admission of any error and
    • of a positive nature, which bid the interpreter to respect (a) the definitions of the Church, (b) the patristic interpretation, and (c) the analogy of faith.
Third principle

After the genuine sense of Sacred Scripture has been found, it had to be presented to others by means of

  • the version,
  • the paraphrase,
  • the gloss and scholion,
  • the dissertation,
  • or finally the commentary.
The homily may also be classed among the more popular method of Biblical exposition. Fourth principle

The concluding pages of the article EXEGESIS are devoted to a brief history of the subject:


-------------------------
My commentary:

All historical books of the Bible are literal (Gospels, Exodus, etc.)

The epistles are letters written to historical people and are thus "literal" (Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Jude, James, etc.). Even in the literal or historical works, we can glean deeper meaning and metaphorical understanding of certain things--which is why Christians tend to re-read the Bible over and over.

There are parables, prophecy and symbolic language (Psalms, Revelation, etc.).

Unfortunately in our society we equate symbol with unreal or untrue. Symbols and metaphors (in this context) always point toward a deeper truth. Also, there are some books of the Bible that contain a mix of parables, history, etc.

In looking at Scripture, you first have to take a look at each particular book of the Bible and see whether or not it's genre is historical (is it telling or recounting a historical event?), whether or not it's didactic (meant to teach us morals or theology), or if it's an epistle (letter), etc.
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
^^^As do I. I also consider it a guide, as perfect example. Many say that it's also an ancient text and does not apply to these times. I do not agree. Every scripture I find upon reflection is pertinent to all the things going on right now!

:amen: naturalgyrl5199 :amen:

Each scripture I too have found to be pertinent to all things going on right now. The Word of God has always related to every event of life in types and shadows (forwarnings and symbols) of things that are and of things to come.

God's word is most definitely a guide... a lamp unto our feet and a light upon our paths. The Word will literally 'lift' up from the pages and will and have spoken directly to my heart about specific situations in my life and the lives of others... always on target and on point.

Indeed I take God's word literally... It's Life ...
 
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blazingthru

Well-Known Member
HI Coilyfields,

I was trying really hard to condense everything to just a few lines, but it was not possible. I don't like to post long passages because no one really reads them. I posted some time ago understanding parables.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=403784
I was referring to Luke 16: 19, and I posted some information regarding that as well.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showpost.php?p=13746221&postcount=21
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=552029&highlight=heaven+is+for+real
Why cloak Bible prophecies in Symbols?
Luke 8 :10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest, it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
Many of the apocalyptic prophecies were given while the prophets were in a hostile foreign land. One reason God cloaked the prophecies in symbols was to protect the messages.
While reading the bible it is so very important to pray. The holy spirit will guide you to understand. It’s good to take notes, because you can run through all three, literal truths, symbolism and a parable at the same time.
I knowing many of the symbols and memorizing them helps you to understand the scriptures . Here are a few with the scripture below,
People and Body Parts
Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27
Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4
• Thief = Suddenness of Jesus' coming 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4; 2 Peter 3:10
• Hand = Deeds / Works / Actions Ecclesiastes 9:10, Isaiah 59:6
• Forehead = Mind Deuteronomy 6:6-8, Romans 7:25; Ezekiel 3:8, 9
• Feet = Your Walk / Direction Genesis 19:2, Psalm 119:105
• Eyes = Spiritual Discernment Matthew 13:10-17, 1 John 2:11
• Skin = Christ's righteousness Exodus 12:5, 1 Peter 1:19, Isaiah 1:4-6
• Harlot = Apostate church/religion Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9
• Heads = Major powers/rulers/governments Revelation 17:3, 9, 10
 
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blazingthru

Well-Known Member
You determine how it is literal and or parable and or symbolic by studying the passage who is the person speaking to who is the audience, what is going on at that time.

. The Bible is a spiritual revelation. Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

While most parts of the Bible can and should be taken literally, the existence of figurative, symbolic, metaphorical communication must be expected and respected. Passages which are literal, and can be understood literally just as they are written, often also can be interpreted metaphorically, indeed are meant to be interpreted metaphorically. This is a simple truth easily overlooked or resisted.

Jesus used a Scripture about a "shepherd" to know what would happen to His own life. Jesus quotes the prophet Zechariah 13:7 in Matthew 26:31:

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, "I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."

Yet Jesus was a carpenter, not a shepherd. He used the Scripture about a "shepherd" symbolically. Symbolically He was a shepherd. He called Himself the "Good Shepherd." In applying the Bible symbolically, Jesus sets an example for us as Bible students.

I believe that Jonah is a true story. It is not unique, it has happen before in our own time. I believe all the stories in the bible because they are telling an event that happen but the parables have a different meaning in which we need to take a closer look at each word to find the real meaning. Remember who was the audience Jesus spoke to and what is the message behind he message, what is he really saying.

Many are the ways in which Jonah was a sign, or type, of Christ. The principle sign of Jesus to His people was His resurrection. "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. ... But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:18-21.

In the same way, the "sign of Jonah" to the Ninevites was that God had, in figure, raised him from certain death. No doubt Jonah, like Jesus, bore scars from his ordeal. As Jonah went down the streets of Nineveh preaching, his skin could very well have been bleached and raw-covered with bits of dried seaweed. There have been at least three examples in modern times where people were swallowed by some type of large fish and were later rescued alive. The reports were that their skin was "burnt and pale." I am sure Jonah shared with his audience the highlights of his adventure and his virtual resurrection from certain death.

Today every real Christian has, like Jonah, experienced a type of resurrection and new life (Romans 6:4). We are each are called to go where God sends us-without consulting our fears-and to preach a message of mercy and warning. Yet much of the Christian church is turning away from modern Jonahs. Still today, there are those who will not believe unless they see signs and wonders, healings and miracles.

The sign Jesus gave to His generation is still valid today. For three days and nights He took the punishment through suffering and the penalty through death. Then He rose again from the jaws of the grave. And most important of all, Jesus gave us His eternal Word to guide us to the kingdom. Christ said, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
Pastor Batchelor's message, few miracles of Scripture have been more doubted and maligned than the story of Jonah. Sure, it seems too incredible to believe that someone could be swallowed whole by a large fish, much less survive for three days in its belly! (The claims that a whale could not swallow a man whole is a myth! But it’s really not an issue either, because the word used in Jonah 1:17, like the one in Matthew 12:40, does not mean whale; instead, it means sea monster.)

I confess that early in my Christian experience, I wondered how the story of Jonah could be literally true. But then I heard Dr. J. Vernon McGee, on his Through The Bible radio broadcast, cite three credible examples in modern times in which people were swallowed by some type of large fish—and then were later rescued alive!


One story dates back to the late 19th century. The Star of the East, a whaling ship operating off the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic, was in pursuit of a large whale. Its harpoon boats were launched, and the whale was successfully speared. However, in the violence that followed, one of the smaller boats capsized — throwing two crewmembers into the sea. One of them was found drowned, but the other, James Bartley, disappeared without a trace. The whale was eventually subdued, and its carcass hoisted onto the ship where the crew began carving it up for blubber

After a couple of days, they worked down to the stomach, where they noticed something large moving around inside. They cut the stomach open—and there lay James Bartley. He was doubled up, unconscious, and even somewhat digested, but he was alive! They doused him with seawater, put him in the captain's cabin to recover—and after a few weeks of bed-rest, he was back on the job.


Some accounts include a detailed description of what Bartley experienced and felt during his whale of a journey. He said that he remembered flying through the air when the whale struck the boat with its tail. Then suddenly, darkness surrounded him as he slipped along a smooth passage of some sort. He then came into a larger area marked by a slimy substance that shrunk from his touch. He soon realized that he was in the whale. He could breathe, but it was also very hot! He said that later he lost consciousness, and the next thing he remembered was the crew caring for him.


Other accounts say that Bartley’s skin was permanently affected by the gastric juices in the whale, and that he had a bleached-white appearance for the remainder of his life. Other versions describe his skin as having a bluish color after his rescue.


Beyond this evidence, we should not forget that the Bible says: “Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah” (Jonah 1:17). This means that whatever modification this creature needed to accommodate Jonah’s temporary residence, God prepared it. Yet even more powerful than these arguments, it should be sufficient for every Christian that Jesus states Jonah’s experience was a fact and not a fable (Matthew 12:40).

The problem is when "Christians" start taking text and discounting it and then still calling themselves Christians. Really?
 

PinkPebbles

Well-Known Member
Ladies - I have a question.

Did Jonah literally get trapped in a whales mouth?

I know with God anything is possible but I always wondered was Jonah really in a whales mouth for days....
 

Crown

New Member
Ladies - I have a question.

Did Jonah literally get trapped in a whales mouth?

I know with God anything is possible but I always wondered was Jonah really in a whales mouth for days....

Mat. 12 : 39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

It's not a parable @PinkPebbles
 

PinkPebbles

Well-Known Member
Mat. 12 : 39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

It's not a parable @PinkPebbles

Crown thank you!!!!

This verse stood out to me and the story of Jonah gives me much more understanding of God's plan during that time...."For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
 

SweetSimplicity

Active Member
Yes I believe that the majority of the bible is to be taken literally. For example, I believe Adam and Eve were literal people not just a representation of Humanity. Believe in a literal flood story. I believe all the Historical events stated in the bible to be true. I always thought the parables were real stories( never really thought about it) but whether they were or not their purpose is to teach a greater lesson.
I believe there is a literal Satan, literal Heaven and Hell.

The Book of Revelation contains a lot of symbolism where it mentions the different "Women" "Beasts" and the dragons. Some examples of things that I do believe to be literal in Revelations is that the saints will reign with Christ a literal 1000 years, that there will be a literal new Heaven and New Earth.

I believe everything that is in the bible is thereto teach us everything we need to know about God and how we are to live in this current life and the hope awaiting us in the next life.
 

Laela

Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
I take the Bible literally... and spiritually. Something that is literal is accurate and without exaggeration... I believe there was an actual Goliath and David knocked him out with a pebble. I believe Lot's wife turned to a pillar salt. I believe there was a great flood and only Noah and his family survived. I believe Jesus healed all those folks and raised people from the dead...I believe every single Word.
 

naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
LADIES:

Quick question. I would like feedback. (I have 2 Examples)

I believe that a "literal interpretation" may still be interpreted differently.
Even scholars who legitimately "interpret" the Bible with genuine interest often disagree. This is nothing new.

Example 1) There a is a scripture in the NT about "women being quiet" (I'm at work, no time to pull the verses!)

Many interpret this to mean women cannot be worship leaders or be ordained as ministers, etc to lead all....

Some interpret this to mean that AT THAT TIME, not enough men were participating in the "church" and thus women filled that role, and the person saying "women be quiet" was saying that for the purpose of let men step up now....but certainly NOT that women cannot or should not lead in the church....

Many people think it is not God's will for women to lead in the church based on the SAME scripture...
I think God ordains authority to those we may or may not approve of.
I have been ministered to by many women who are ordained ministers, pastors, etc.
However the scripture in question can be taken many ways.

Example 2) There is a scripture in the NT about Deacons having one wife.
Many interpret this to mean: a) In order to be a deacon in the church you must be MARRIED. An unmarried person cannot be deacons. b) Others say it simply means you should be married (IF YOU ARE MARRIED) to one wife and not practice polygamy...for the purpose of not having to split your time any more away from God with the responsibility of having more than 1 wife.

This was brought to my attention a few years ago as a member of a very young church (age-wise) I attended as an undergrad. My younger brother...23-24 at the time was trained and then "ordained" if that's what its called as a deacon. He was single, and very active in the church. I was told our church was wrong and following the devil because deacons were supposed to be married. Another lady in that conversation said her husband was trained 7 years and only after they got married, was he allowed to be a deacon at all, due to that scripture. My arguement was that as a young church THERE WERE NO married couples yet (may be one or two had just gotten married), that had been trained or tested yet, and that waiting for someone to get married could take a while because many of our members were young, single, and focusing on school. They seemed to understand this. But that's how they were taught. I did not think they were wrong because the scripture mentioned the one wife thing....BUT they saw and understood our situation. My brother didn't get married for 3 more years, but was so active, and so helpful, our Pastor felt he was ready. And of course he filled the role honorably....
Feedback? (sorry so long)
 

CoilyFields

Well-Known Member
@Galadriel @blazingthru

Thank you both for giving a further in depth explanantion.

I had originally wondered this becuase someone I had witnessed to in the past came back (years later) and told me they were now a believer. But they had trouble accepting the Bible. But then they told me that a pastor had told them that it wasn't literal. Just stories that we should learn from...like aesops fables. I was appalled! I tried to direct them to resources where they could do their own in depth study of the Bible and to pray for faith and understanding.

But I wanted to know if other believers thought this too and how one would rationalize what was "fake" and what was "real". Like, if the virgin birth was a myth...then Jesus' quaifications as savior (being sinless) did not exist right?. Or how did one decide that God did not part the Red Sea but Jesus did walk on water? Was is just the "miraculous" that is not taken as truth? And if so...is it that much harder to believe in His wonderous works than it is to believer in an almighty God?

I understand everyones explanations and we all seem to be basically on the same page (Historical facts, Real individuals, parables, symbols/types etc.). Has anyone had conversations with other Christians who believe otherwise? If so, how have they rationalized this?

ETA: OK I posted too late lol. @Ivonnovi would you mind explaining why and how you would answer my above questions?
 
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CoilyFields

Well-Known Member
LADIES:

Quick question. I would like feedback. (I have 2 Examples)

I believe that a "literal interpretation" may still be interpreted differently.
Even scholars who legitimately "interpret" the Bible with genuine interest often disagree. This is nothing new.

Example 1) There a is a scripture in the NT about "women being quiet" (I'm at work, no time to pull the verses!)

Many interpret this to mean women cannot be worship leaders or be ordained as ministers, etc to lead all....

Some interpret this to mean that AT THAT TIME, not enough men were participating in the "church" and thus women filled that role, and the person saying "women be quiet" was saying that for the purpose of let men step up now....but certainly NOT that women cannot or should not lead in the church....

Many people think it is not God's will for women to lead in the church based on the SAME scripture...
I think God ordains authority to those we may or may not approve of.
I have been ministered to by many women who are ordained ministers, pastors, etc.
However the scripture in question can be taken many ways.

Example 2) There is a scripture in the NT about Deacons having one wife.
Many interpret this to mean: a) In order to be a deacon in the church you must be MARRIED. An unmarried person cannot be deacons. b) Others say it simply means you should be married (IF YOU ARE MARRIED) to one wife and not practice polygamy...for the purpose of not having to split your time any more away from God with the responsibility of having more than 1 wife.

This was brought to my attention a few years ago as a member of a very young church (age-wise) I attended as an undergrad. My younger brother...23-24 at the time was trained and then "ordained" if that's what its called as a deacon. He was single, and very active in the church. I was told our church was wrong and following the devil because deacons were supposed to be married. Another lady in that conversation said her husband was trained 7 years and only after they got married, was he allowed to be a deacon at all, due to that scripture. My arguement was that as a young church THERE WERE NO married couples yet (may be one or two had just gotten married), that had been trained or tested yet, and that waiting for someone to get married could take a while because many of our members were young, single, and focusing on school. They seemed to understand this. But that's how they were taught. I did not think they were wrong because the scripture mentioned the one wife thing....BUT they saw and understood our situation. My brother didn't get married for 3 more years, but was so active, and so helpful, our Pastor felt he was ready. And of course he filled the role honorably....
Feedback? (sorry so long)

naturalgyrl5199 lol heres one more interpretation for you...the deacon cannot be divorced! I agree with you about the multiple interpretations people have. But one thing that will help with understanding the Bible is understanding context and cultural norms of the time.

I believe that the Bible is teaching us principle when addressing certain cultural norms that existed back then. Like there is also a verse somewhere that tells women to have their heads covered, dont ask questions in service but wait until they get home and ask their husbands etc. As I understand it these directives were in accordance with the culture where, for example, covering your head was seen as an act of submission (Priests also had to do this at times), and often prostitutes delineated themselves by having their head uncovered in public etc. But those things are not true for us today. But the principle of being modest, especially in the house of God is still true. Another example would be slavery. Though the Bible teaches slaves to obey their masters and not hate them that doesnt mean that it supported slavery. It spoke to an audience/culture where slavery was the norm and taught the principle of respecting authority, loving those who despitefully used you, gentleness to those who you had authority over etc. (Doesnt mean that today we should go out and get some slaves and just make sure we treat them right!)

There will always be many different interpretations of what even one verse says/means but as we were discussing in the other thread (what the majority do) these should not be points of judgement nor division between us. So one church should not say that another is following the devil because the deacon wasnt married.

I have a strong aversion to when people make sins out of things that are not sins! I believe it binds us to mans law/traditions instead of Gods! And we should be very reluctant of accusing our brothers and sisters...thats satans job.
 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
CoilyFields usually the people I've come across who have trouble with accepting parts of Scripture fall into two camps

1) They don't believe in miracles or in the miracles that the Bible reports, because of a materialistic mindset (matter is all there is, science is the only measure of truth/knowledge).

2) They don't believe in the Bible's moral teachings, and especially in the existence of Hell.


@Galadriel @blazingthru

Thank you both for giving a further in depth explanantion.

I had originally wondered this becuase someone I had witnessed to in the past came back (years later) and told me they were now a believer. But they had trouble accepting the Bible. But then they told me that a pastor had told them that it wasn't literal. Just stories that we should learn from...like aesops fables. I was appalled! I tried to direct them to resources where they could do their own in depth study of the Bible and to pray for faith and understanding.

But I wanted to know if other believers thought this too and how one would rationalize what was "fake" and what was "real". Like, if the virgin birth was a myth...then Jesus' quaifications as savior (being sinless) did not exist right?. Or how did one decide that God did not part the Red Sea but Jesus did walk on water? Was is just the "miraculous" that is not taken as truth? And if so...is it that much harder to believe in His wonderous works than it is to believer in an almighty God?

I understand everyones explanations and we all seem to be basically on the same page (Historical facts, Real individuals, parables, symbols/types etc.). Has anyone had conversations with other Christians who believe otherwise? If so, how have they rationalized this?

ETA: OK I posted too late lol. @Ivonnovi would you mind explaining why and how you would answer my above questions?
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in the existence of Hell. based on studying, Its a contridictory to what the scriptures tells us about heaven and about hell. Jesus says clearly in his explanation of the parable. that the wicked are reserved until the end of the world.


Matthew 13:37-53
King James Version (KJV)

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

44Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

51Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

52Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

53And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence

2 Peter 2:9
King James Version (KJV)

9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:



Reserved? Where are they reserved, in a waiting area?

No, in the grave

John 5:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



But I believe that the discussion and many contridictions on heaven and Hell has turned people off to studying the bible, or having anything to do with spiriitual people, Church etc. Which I totally understand, because that was me sometime ago, to many stories and none adding up. it is deeper study we find the real story. We need to be people of the book who clearly want to know the truth and not run after falsehoods. Somethings cannot be taken literal they have to be viewed as deeper studying text. Plus I am concern when the majority believe in something. In every instance in the bible few chose the more difficult path to christ and that is really how it is now. Most proclaim but few will actually followed the right path. I followed my path because it was not the norm but everything flowed correctly and made perfect sense, I got a lot of backlash, lost some friends and family members and gained a new life that I would not trade for the world.
 

Poohbear

Fearfully Wonderfully Made
For those of you who take the bible literally... do you all live by the following verse literally?

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 

Crown

New Member
For those of you who take the bible literally... do you all live by the following verse literally?

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I said : literally and/or spiritually,
but there is no contradiction with this verse.
We are the work of God, in process and progress.

It's not a fairy tale! Time is required and faith and obedience.

In the natural, it takes time to be born.

These verses can better explain what I am saying : It is a process, kingdoms to conquer (we have many,-pride, lust, lie, adultery, fornication, indifference...- and each must fall).

Jn 3:30 He(Christ) must become greater; I(Self) must become less.

2 Cor. 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
@Poohbear

I hope this will help. But yes I do take it literally. There are just some things that were a habit to me that I could never ever do now and day by day its gets better and better, things that I struggle with before is nothing to me now.


Recently I read the amazing account of a man who submitted to a scientific hypnosis experiment. While under the influence of a light hypnotic trance the subject was ordered to pick up a glass from the table. Although he was a strong, athletic type, the man could not budge the glass from its position. His most strenuous exertions could not lift the glass that was light enough for any child to remove.

Why could he not do it? Because the scientists, after placing him in the trance, had told him that it was impossible to pick up the glass. Because his mind was convinced that it could not be done, his body was unable to carry out the command to lift it. What a dramatic demonstration that no person can really obey commandments which he believes to be impossible of performance!

Is this the reason so many Christians are living weak, defeated lives? There is no question that the popular, modern theology has been teaching millions that no one can really live without sinning. The Ten Commandments have been portrayed as an idealistic code produced only for the purpose of making people conscious of their need.

Many modern Christians are turning more and more to a soft, lenient stance on the subject of law-keeping. They believe God’s love is incompatible with strict rules and penalties for violation.

That is a very comfortable doctrine but completely foreign to what the Bible teaches. Millions are being conditioned to break the great moral law of the universe—without feeling any guilt! The Word of God gives no one an excuse to feel relaxed about sin. It is the central problem of every person who has been born. Like a highly contagious disease, sin has infected every soul with the germs of death, and no earthly cure or deterrent has been found to halt the fatal progress of the sickness.

From the first appearance of sin in the Garden of Eden it has been totally disruptive of everything good. Never in one instance has it been able to coexist with righteousness and holiness. The requirements of God make it utterly impossible for sin or disobedience to be a part of the Christian lifestyle. The new tolerance for it is not biblical in any sense of the word. Jesus came to save people from it; He came to destroy it. It will never enter into heaven. Our attitude toward it must be uncompromising. There can be no question of making it more acceptable by diminishing the amount of it or changing its form. It must be destroyed. And the only means of eradicating it is by receiving the fullness of Jesus Christ and His grace into the life.

How strange it is that so many church members have now become apologetic for sin, as though it cannot be prevented from triumphing in the life of a Christian. How dare we misrepresent the power of God’s grace in the gospel! Jesus has already defeated the devil, and no Christian should be intimidated by an inferior, defeated foe. We have no business justifying the transgression of the Ten Commandments.

It is serious enough to engage willfully in an act of sin, but it is infinitely more deadly to defend it as something which cannot be prevented. To say that victory is impossible is to deny the adequacy of the gospel and to negate a large portion of the inspired Scriptures. In addition, it adds support to the original charge of Satan against God, and gives a paralyzing, false security to everyone who believes in it.

Often people are defensive of sin because they have not been able to stop doing it in their own strength. For example, when they can’t stop smoking, they must find a rationalization for its presence in their lives. Instead of making the humiliating confession that they can’t conquer it, they fabricate arguments that it really doesn’t hurt them or that no one can be perfect. Or the popular, convenient doctrine that no one can really live without sin anyway.

It is probably safe to say that the majority of Christians today are resigned to falling short of the moral law. In fact, they are quite satisfied that God doesn’t even expect them to fulfill that law completely, either in the flesh or in the spirit.

The effect of such a teaching is exactly what one would expect—multitudes of emotionally happy, but disobedient, church members who feel that any concern about keeping the commandments is nitpicking and legalistic.

What a delusive strategy of Satan! As the inventor of the doctrine, the evil one is simply supporting his ancient accusation that God was asking too much. He accused God of being unfair by requiring something that was impossible.

He was able to convince a third of the angels that God was unreasonable to expect obedience to His law, and he has been trying to make everybody else believe it since that time. Think about it for a moment, and the entire scheme begins to make a lot of diabolical sense. Satan knows that sin is the only thing that will keep anyone out of heaven. Since sin is the “transgression of the law,” he had to perfect a plan to make people look lightly upon breaking the law and also cause it to appear unobjectionable (1 John 3:4). To make the idea acceptable to Christians, Satan actually was able to disguise it as a doctrine and foist it upon a compromised Christianity.

In every evangelistic crusade, we meet it in one form or another, usually at the point of the law and the Sabbath. The inconvenient claims of obedience are shrugged off with a “Well, nobody can keep the Ten Commandments anyway.”

But the problem doesn’t end there. Even Christians who have accepted the claims of the moral law are not too concerned about how well they fulfill it either. In a subtle way they have been affected by the prevalent belief that too much concern about obedience is a form of salvation by works. Incredibly, some seem to be so fearful of keeping the law too closely that they actually make provision to break it. By doing so they perversely comfort themselves for not being legalistic.

How could people committed to commandment-keeping ever come to such a confused contradiction within themselves? Exposure to a false concept of righteousness by faith is only part of the answer. Much of the problem is based upon human failure and weakness of the flesh. Because they found themselves stumbling in their efforts to be perfect, they finally concluded that it was impossible not to sin. From that point it was easy to start interpreting Bible texts to support their weak experience. Satan exploited the psychological bent of the human mind to rationalize, and soon they had developed a comfortable doctrine that accommodated their occasional deviations from the law. Consequently, most Christians today are resigned to an alternating experience of victory-defeat, victory-defeat. To them it is the approved lifestyle of normal Christianity.

But something is fearfully wrong with this position. In the first place, doctrine should never be based on feeling or human experience. It must be rooted in the plain, unequivocal teaching of the Word of God. It is true that Bible texts can be assembled which seem to support the doctrine of spiritual imperfection. We are assured that all have sinned, that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and that man’s righteousness is as filthy rags. But all the verses about failure, sin, and defeat are in reference to the unregenerate experience of a person. There are literally scores of other texts which describe an opposite experience of total victory and sinless living. In every case they are referring to the Spirit-filled life of a converted, committed child of God.

This distinction must always be recognized in the reading of the Scripture. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation. His grace is stronger than all the concentrated forces of evil. Jesus came to save His people from their sin. No one who reads the sixth chapter of Romans intelligently can believe that the Christian is free to practice sin. Paul utterly devastates the doctrine that a believer should keep on falling into sin.
It is true that provision is made for cleansing in case sin is committed, but God’s perfect plan made it possible for man to overcome every sin and to live a life of perfect obedience through Christ. In fact, the promises of the Bible are so clear and specific on this point that it is hard to get confused. No secret meaning or hidden reservation can be found in the myriad of texts which describe the victorious experience of the born-again child of God. And just because one may not have grown into that fullness of faith which brings constant victory, he should not, therefore, deny the power of God to give such deliverance. When Peter began sinking in the Sea of Galilee, it was not because God’s plan or power had failed. Peter could have rationalized, like so many modern Christians, and said, “God didn’t want me to walk on the water, and besides, it’s impossible for anybody to do such a thing anyway.” Like our first parents we still tend to place the ultimate blame on God when we fail to follow His plan of holy living.
 
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