This is so embarrassing....

Chocolatelove2010 said:

My friend the other day was told by her supervisor.. to wear make up.

So do you know what she did? She wore some make up. She dressed up to work...

Not everybody finds 'wild' hair attractive. You probs thought you were looking the ish, thinking Yeaaaah this is for my natural sisters. Sadly, you were stopped in your tracks. It's alright... don't be embarassed. But sort it out girl.

And for the love of God, show us a pic. You're killing us here.

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OP, I do think he was trying to keep your best interests at heart.
But to Chocolatelove's friend with the makeup situation, if that were me I would be highly offended and give him a piece of my mind in front of everyone. And then the next day I would show up to work wearing so much makeup it was almost scary. I do not wear makeup to work because I take good care of my skin and do not need it. Did your friend's supervisor tell her to wear a push up bra as well? Or perhaps he said she should consider thongs because then there won't be VPL. In summary hair and general appearance are very touchy issues for everyone and there is a very thin line regarding it. I know for my company HR would be all over ANY of these issues without hesitation and I work for a large conservative corporate environment.

I used to hear that a lot too. I have really thick hair so I just can't slick it down, you know? My lead, who barely had any hair at all told me that I need to look presentable at all times. It was just really hard for me. A lot of my co-workers would ask me if I needed a hairdresser

Just wear a bun and keep the traffic moving.

Unfortunately OP, like another poster said, life ain't always fair. And unfortunatly, we are the minority in corporate america. Everybody won't get it. It's their world and we have to play by their rules. IMO, you can do one of two things, play by the rules and look to adjust your hair to be more appropriate for your particular work setting (as another poster suggested, I would ask for clear boundaries of what's acceptable to this particular boss. Or if you feel truly offended, you could try to fight the establishment - complain to HR or possibly sue (extreme). Since you felt that your hair was not what you wanted it to be, if it were me, I'd try tot figure out what works and look to fit in hat mold. Not ideal but real!

CurlyMoo said:

I don't need to see pictures. The VP of Sales told you that your hair was "wild" and "inappropriate for work" which means he is saying your hair is too casual for a professional enviornment. Just throw it up in a neat bun without straightening it. Then see what he says. My avitar is a twist out and some, particularly White folks would call it wild. As long as he doesn't ask you to change your texture, you are fine.

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Agree with the comment above. I also didnt think that he was trying to come off in a rude way, he actually said something to you because he likes you and wants you to do well. In some cases it may not be about your race or texture just the style. He would have been rude had he said this in front of others! And you shouldnt be too embarrassed- At least it was just hair that he pulled you to the side about (and not other personal hygiene issues )

lizelies said:

But to Chocolatelove's friend with the makeup situation, if that were me I would be highly offended and give him a piece of my mind in front of everyone. And then the next day I would show up to work wearing so much makeup it was almost scary. I do not wear makeup to work because I take good care of my skin and do not need it. Did your friend's supervisor tell her to wear a push up bra as well? Or perhaps he said she should consider thongs because then there won't be VPL.

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Is that always the best solution? Can't we handle our problems without resorting to the expected stereotype of fighting and neck-rolling? Unless the supervisor said she should put on some lip gloss to make her lips look like nice and juicy like men like then it's just taking a leap to assume 'wear a little makeup' is in the same bag as 'wear a thong and push up bra'.

The reality is there are just some things you are expected to do for work. You're expected to not just wear clean clothes but also clothes befitting your work situation. It's expected you not just show up looking acceptable but also like you took pride in your appearance and worked on it a little. I worked in an IT assistance form and my supervisor told the women who worked in my section to figure out a way to wear our hair which looked nicer than what she had seen recently. Rather than took it as a personal insult I just adjusted a little and didn't have my skills as a professional woman diminished by my inability to compromise or be mature. (and she was black and a woman).

beans4reezy said:

Well, this morning...I kind of thought it looked a little crazy, but then again- I thought it was cute...like I was a natural with a cute braid out...



I normally have it in a bun...but I was getting bored with them, so I wanted to try something new...FAIL

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Keep the experimentation for after hours and weekends.

SmilingElephant said:

With the way i'm feeling today...i would've told him to kick rocks...(enter Kanye shrug HERE)

My thing.....what is his age group and what color is he?? And WHERE did he come from??
I'm sorry but i'm the type of chick sometimes i even have to put my managers in check bc they like to try you with petty mess...and i ain't for it....if you are not the Son of God(wow i just thought about the crying chick in the bonnet in the dark video)....i will put you in check where i deem it appropriate....and honestly i woulda told him somethings...let him have a bad day...and pull him to the side like he did you and feed him that same crap he fed you.....some ppl just love to cross lines....yes its 2010...but these days you get SHOT for stuff like that.

....stepping off the soapbox .

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Not unless you've decided you don't work there anymore. All occupations and workplaces have dress codes and either you play or you don't work in that profession. Barack and Michelle Obama abide by dress codes as does Beyonce and military members and people who work at mickeydees and walmart.

brownbean96 said:

Unfortunately OP, like another poster said, life ain't always fair. And unfortunatly, we are the minority in corporate america. Everybody won't get it. It's their world and we have to play by their rules. IMO, you can do one of two things, play by the rules and look to adjust your hair to be more appropriate for your particular work setting (as another poster suggested, I would ask for clear boundaries of what's acceptable to this particular boss. Or if you feel truly offended, you could try to fight the establishment - complain to HR or possibly sue (extreme). Since you felt that your hair was not what you wanted it to be, if it were me, I'd try tot figure out what works and look to fit in hat mold. Not ideal but real!

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This. As for sueing I can't see convincing a judge that you have a right to flout a company dress code by not combing your hair.

If your hair is too long for twa or short relaxed looks but not long enough for a bun then comb your hair back neatly, and make use of headbands and silk scaves (use them like a headband). Repeat your hair can be as wild and crazy as you want it to be on your own time but if your employer or your occupation requires a certain look then you don't have a choice but to comply - if you want to get paid.

lizelies said:

OP, I do think he was trying to keep your best interests at heart.
But to Chocolatelove's friend with the makeup situation, if that were me I would be highly offended and give him a piece of my mind in front of everyone. And then the next day I would show up to work wearing so much makeup it was almost scary. I do not wear makeup to work because I take good care of my skin and do not need it. Did your friend's supervisor tell her to wear a push up bra as well? Or perhaps he said she should consider thongs because then there won't be VPL. In summary hair and general appearance are very touchy issues for everyone and there is a very thin line regarding it. I know for my company HR would be all over ANY of these issues without hesitation and I work for a large conservative corporate environment.

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For real? erplexed

OP, I say do a bun or rollerset and KIM.

lizelies said:

OP, I do think he was trying to keep your best interests at heart.
But to Chocolatelove's friend with the makeup situation, if that were me I would be highly offended and give him a piece of my mind in front of everyone. And then the next day I would show up to work wearing so much makeup it was almost scary. I do not wear makeup to work because I take good care of my skin and do not need it. Did your friend's supervisor tell her to wear a push up bra as well? Or perhaps he said she should consider thongs because then there won't be VPL. In summary hair and general appearance are very touchy issues for everyone and there is a very thin line regarding it. I know for my company HR would be all over ANY of these issues without hesitation and I work for a large conservative corporate environment.

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I don't even understand why it would have to be all that. Congrats on your skin, but makeup is not just for people with skin issues, nor is it just for the sake of looking sexy. When you do it right, makeup can make you look more awake and competent, which is good for business. I know that when I need to make a good impression on someone, I don't walk in there without putting on a bit of eyeliner, mascara, and lipgloss. Why? Because it makes my eyes look bigger and because employers and clients notice when you've taken measures to look nice. It shows them that you give a damn, and that's a good thing, especially when time comes round for promotions and raises.

As for your thong and push up bra thing...that's a stretch. The face is not the same as the breasts or the booty. In a corporate environment, an employer is not supposed to be looking at your breasts or your butt, because those are more sexual areas. And for them to ask you to make those areas more appealing to them would be highly inappropriate without question. But your face is quite another thing completely, because while it can arouse sexual feelings in another person, that's not what it's especially known for, like the boobs and butt are. People look at your face for a multitude of reasons, and in business, it's especially important to have a look where people are like...yes...she knows what she's doing, I can trust her. And proper makeup, hair and clothing are all parts of achieving that look.

Why people are making a big deal out of this, I just don't understand. It's not like these employers are asking folks to permanently alter their appearance or something. It's one thing if an employer demands that you relax your hair or makes you get a nose job. But putting on makeup, dressing differently or wearing hair in a certain style are all temporary...you can undo them as soon as you're off the clock. It's really not that serious or deep.

I would like to see pics as well. IMO there is a way to make natural hair look neat in an afro, but most white people in the professional world would probably still think it is nappy bc they don't understand our hair and see it as being "wrong" to be different from them. I am not a bun/ponytail girl. I've always worn my hair down. Heck I love having long hair so that I can actually wear it down and express myself. It would disturb/anger me if someone suggested that I wear my hair in a bun/ponytail five days a week just to make them happy. He is basically telling you to essentially look "more white" if you want to advance. What's next...skin bleach?

I'm transitioning to natural now, and I can guarantee you that I will not be a "bun" person when I'm all natural. And if an employer has a problem with it, then I will document it and take them on full force. Change has to start somewhere...

Natural hair is beautiful, and curls/kinks can be professional. Heck, Joan from the show "Girlfriends" had very big hair and she looked professional at all times. I think her character was a lawyer, so she wore suits and etc a lot. She looked just as professional as any other woman in the office. I've seen women like this in real life too! They can rock a suit AND an afro and still look fierce...lol.

The women below still look professional to me....










Now, if you went to work like this(the pics below) then I could understand it being a bit too wild for the office....

DDTexlaxed said:

This post made me mad. Hair has nothing to do with her doing her job. I found his speech empty and rude. Maybe I am PMSing, but it sounds like a cop out to me. Black women are being forced into a mold no other race has to fit into. I find it disgusting!

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I don't necessarily agree with this in this instance. I have worked with multiple other races in the past and when someone came to work looking crazy like OP's supervisor thought she did, they were told about themselves. For instance, one of my white co-workers came sporting the bed head (ie. she didn't wash her hair after what looked like a very eventful weekend) and she was talked to by the office manager. I think it really just depends on the company's culture. If everyone is wearing a sleek bun, ponytail, or whatever, naturally anyone will stand out who does otherwise. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, and as other posters have said, at least he had the decency to tell OP rather than let her continue to come to the office in that manner and not be taken seriously.
I think it is sad that our hair could be viewed as unprofessional, but at the same time, I know I have taken down a braid-out or twist-out that looked completely ridiculous and could see why someone would have a problem with it. In addition, it is not just us that has to deal with it. Lots of white, Asian, and Indian co-workers I've had felt slighted in having to wear their hair back instead of down or in cute styles or whatever but that was the image of the company. In the basest sense, it just seems like those rules play into our "man's world" society because men in particular seem to be distracted by hair, and it's pretty obvious that in popular culture, hair can be very very sexual. And no one wants inappropriate "stiffness" because Mary decided to wear her long raven locks cascading down her back.

.....................................................................

Ms. Martina said:

I would like to see pics as well. IMO there is a way to make natural hair look neat in an afro, but most white people in the professional world would probably still think it is nappy bc they don't understand our hair and see it as being "wrong" to be different from them. I am not a bun/ponytail girl. I've always worn my hair down. Heck I love having long hair so that I can actually wear it down and express myself. It would disturb/anger me if someone suggested that I wear my hair in a bun/ponytail five days a week just to make them happy. He is basically telling you to essentially look "more white" if you want to advance. What's next...skin bleach?

I'm transitioning to natural now, and I can guarantee you that I will not be a "bun" person when I'm all natural. And if an employer has a problem with it, then I will document it and take them on full force. Change has to start somewhere...

Natural hair is beautiful, and curls/kinks can be professional. Heck, Joan from the show "Girlfriends" had very big hair and she looked professional at all times. I think her character was a lawyer, so she wore suits and etc a lot. She looked just as professional as any other woman in the office. I've seen women like this in real life too! They can rock a suit AND an afro and still look fierce...lol.

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How is someone asking you to wear your hair in a bun or in another more tied back style like them asking you to look more white? Buns are only for white people, and for those who want to look white? For real though?
I guess I get my black card revoked, because I bun every day. And someone should alert all the ladies who are actually natural, and who wear buns and similar protective styles...they need to know about their white selves.

Come. on. ya'll.
This is not about OP wearing her natural hair in a nicely shaped fro and then being told to straighten her hair or dye it blonde.
This is about OP wearing her texturized hair out in a braidout (that by her own admission, looked a little crazy) and being asked to put it away.
It is soo not even the same thing. Man, we need some pitchas.

Chaosbutterfly said:

How is someone asking you to wear your hair in a bun or in another more tied back style like them asking you to look more white? Buns are only for white people, and for those who want to look white? .

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Right? I'm willing to fight the good fight with you ladies but I'm not sure I support:

a)anything that feeds into the stereotype that black women are combative and difficult to work with

b) implying that buns or ponytails are 'white' hairstyles and the only black hairstyle is an afro. You don't have to use heat or a relaxer or even straighten your hair to achieve a sleeker look which would be more befitting a work place. And there are so many pretty things I've seen done with natural hair on this board for me to think another style is impossible.

ms. martina those pics were lovely but I note that all the women pictured were either at social events or they were modeling, I couldn't really see very much professionalism past the first picture. Joan was lovely but she was also at the head of her firm and a tv character, lol.

c) anything that ensures you lose a job and be waiting by the phone during this time of recession. I genuinely do not think causing a scene or trying to argue about your hair would be a wise job decision (unless your boss has made derrogatory statements) nor can I imagine new offers would be flowing in once they contact your old boss about why you were fired/quit.

Just sayin ladies....

I never said a bun was a "white style". I feel like people are putting words in my mouth. Here's the point I am trying to make... It bothers people to see natural kinky/ethnic (or whatever else you want to call it) hair down in a professional setting. That simply isn't right. Now if all of the women in the office(white included) had to bun their hair daily, then I would not see his suggestion as an issue.

However, if everyone else gets to walk around the office freely with their hair flowing down and out...that isn't right. The OP(or any black woman) should not be forced to hide her hair simply bc it is too kinky and therefore considered "wild". There is a way to rock a neat afro, and if a woman's hair is neat and clean, then there should not be a problem.

Now if the OP's hair was looking extremely crazy, then yes...her boss had the right to confront her. But if her hair was looking decent then I think he was wrong. Still....I need to see pictures in order to make my final decision on the matter. Op....let's see them

There is a lot of people excusing society's ignorance in this thread.

davisbr88 said:

I don't necessarily agree with this in this instance. I have worked with multiple other races in the past and when someone came to work looking crazy like OP's supervisor thought she did, they were told about themselves. For instance, one of my white co-workers came sporting the bed head (ie. she didn't wash her hair after what looked like a very eventful weekend) and she was talked to by the office manager. I think it really just depends on the company's culture. If everyone is wearing a sleek bun, ponytail, or whatever, naturally anyone will stand out who does otherwise. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, and as other posters have said, at least he had the decency to tell OP rather than let her continue to come to the office in that manner and not be taken seriously.
I think it is sad that our hair could be viewed as unprofessional, but at the same time, I know I have taken down a braid-out or twist-out that looked completely ridiculous and could see why someone would have a problem with it. In addition, it is not just us that has to deal with it. Lots of white, Asian, and Indian co-workers I've had felt slighted in having to wear their hair back instead of down or in cute styles or whatever but that was the image of the company. In the basest sense, it just seems like those rules play into our "man's world" society because men in particular seem to be distracted by hair, and it's pretty obvious that in popular culture, hair can be very very sexual. And no one wants inappropriate "stiffness" because Mary decided to wear her long raven locks cascading down her back.

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So we should just play the rules in order to make OTHER people comfortable, but not ourselves?

beans4reezy said:

See, the thing is- my hair is relaxed, but I only texturize it- so it looks natural. I say all this to say- styling has been a challenge for me, because my hair isn't straight.....so here goes me trying to experiment with a damn braid out and I guess I was looking like Blanca from Street Fighter or something, because he felt compelled to pull me aside.



OK. Rant over.

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ROFL
Sorry you went through that though. I feel your pain because I have trouble styling my hair as well.

this is why i derive so much joy from seeing little girls wearing their natural hair with careless abandon. it's almost the only time when a lot of people with textured hair can truly enjoy wearing their hair without worrying about suffering any consequences. textured hair, by it's very nature draws attention to itself even when the wearer isn't looking for any

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. At this point, I'd recommend that you take the things he said in stride, keep your hair on the conservative side, and don't let the issue create any antagonism in your heart towards him or anyone else for that matter. it's hard, it sucks, it's not fair but it's the right thing to do.

SND411 said:

So we should just play the rules in order to make OTHER people comfortable, but not ourselves?

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SND411 said:

So we should just play the rules in order to make OTHER people comfortable, but not ourselves?

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Girl that's pretty much the definition of work. If I wanted to be comfortable I'd show up in my sweats, night cap, and robe with slippers BUT since it's work I do my hair, do my makeup, wear the proper clothes and then work for 10 hours alternating between standing and sitting the entire time following the rules set out for me.

I'm pretty sure all of 0 people are 100% comfortable at work. You're either wearing shoes that hurt, a suit that pinches, a girdle that squeezes or something. If you're self employed in a casual environment there is some leeway but in a more conservative environment you have to choose to play by the rules or decide whether the environment is right for you.

Bobby pins are a girls best friend. My braid outs get really frizz and dry looking by mid day. I pin it under and it looks like a neat short bob.

I'm jus sayin though....i'm pretty sure ol' boy probably has his off days too...feelin how i felt yesterday...my original post???....that's me actually being nice about it. So i would just check him on his bad days. I'm sorry but i think that that's just embarassing...now did he pull you in the office or did he discuss it with you around other colleagues??

For me...it depends on how ppl handle things ....but i really wanna see a pic bc if it was cute and wild at the same time...i'd use my backbone on him...but if you just had a straight up bad hair day i'd just be like yeah it's wild today it'll be iight tomorrow....shrug it of and move along.

SND411 said:

So we should just play the rules in order to make OTHER people comfortable, but not ourselves?

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You can be yourself all you want. But when someone else is writing the check don't be surprised when you are being yourself in the unemployment line!

Oh, no! That sucks. Back to buns I guess, but you can rock any style you want on the weekends!

SND411 said:

There is a lot of people excusing society's ignorance in this thread.

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Sometimes taking offense to things can be destructive instead of progressive.

This situation is not focused on the the OP's hair type, if it was, then yes it could be considered a valid reason to pursue HR intervention and stand up for the shift in society where natural hair is appreciated and is and can be professional if styled appropriately. There are not many business institutions that do not carry a type of dress code, appearance policy and it applies to everyone. There is a time and place for everything and I can't see a self-described Blanca replica as the representative image for a business unless she works for Playstation and still its a stretch.

The EEOC defends those who have been discriminated against because of their hair type when it is in its natural state and is neat not their hair style. If it was opposite or even if it was focused on hair style instead then employeers would have no say so in someone coming in with a pink mohowk with blue streaks. Hair in itself is a type of self-expression and at work it should express itself appropriately.

The OP stated she had been having trouble with styling and was bored with bunning...so she made a conscious decision to try something new with her hair without perfecting it so that it would not appear wild or "crazy". The position of the VP of sales is to help sell the image of the company as well as its products for increased profibility so I would expect she/he to be more intuned to the nuances of image from all perspectives. This is not an opportunity for offense but an opportunity for strategy. I think the OP was just given insight onto how she is viewed (very positively it seems) and it would behoove her to look at this as a time not to fight the machine but prove she is a cog needed to keep it working....as one other poster put it...I'm jus sayin

Seriously, are some of ya'll LOOKING for a fight? Geez.

If OP walked up in there looking strait up like Don King in a professional work environment, ya'll saying that if her supervisor asked her to moisturize her situation and tidy it up bit, we should call in Al Sharpton?

Please.

~Sparklingflame~ said:

Seriously, are some of ya'll LOOKING for a fight? Geez.

If OP walked up in there looking strait up like Don King in a professional work environment, ya'll saying that if her supervisor asked her to moisturize her situation and tidy it up bit, we should call in Al Sharpton?

Please.

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SND411 said:

So we should just play the rules in order to make OTHER people comfortable, but not ourselves?

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In a word: YES. It is the VP's ball park, his bat and ball, so if we want to play, we play HIS game.

Something no one has specifically addressed is that OP is in a high enough position at the company that it was a VP pulling her aside - which means she isn't "beneath his notice". A confrontational reaction from OP could have skewed the VP's opinion of her -- he views himself as telling her something for her own professional good and she appears to overreact? He could interpret that as misplaced priorities regarding her job.

Depending upon OP's visibility and the industry, her appearance might be more key to her job than any of us realize.

Aside from hair: I worked at a law firm where female associates needed to keep a business skirt-suit in their office. There were some older partners that maintained a very strict code of what was appropriate attire for meeting clients. So -- if the associate wants to be included in meetings for those partners' clients, they had to be prepared to change clothes, or get left out. Sexist? I didn't think so; it was simply what was required to play in that particular ball park. Same thing in this situation.

ETA: I don't feel a need to see pictures from the OP. The VP - who has input into her advancement/continued employment - perceived it as inappropriate, and OP herself was a little shaky on the style, so a change likely is in order.

I can NEVER belong to corporate America....

Well, OP, it's up to you because it's your job but companies have images to uphold. That's why I've never seen someone short and stout working at Abercrombie & Fitch. Heck, I own my own business (partly because of the dress code stuff) and there are people that I won't even hire based on appearance. Sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles. Since he didn't directly address your hair texture but just the style, I wouldn't sweat it too much if I were you unless you're ready to do your own thing.