Is being in a fraternity or sorority against Christianity?!?

[msa]

Hello msa,

Your question just made me realize something. I started out by saying "These scriptures were chosen based upon the reader having inside knowledge of what sorority/fraternity pledging is allllll about and keeping it real." Well other people's pledging experience and knowledge may have been unlike mine (duh, to self). So, the article may seem like gobblety gook. I was trying to respond without dogging out sorority practices (again which is why I was targeting folk with knowledge of pledging which is not too far fetched from what many have seen portrayed in the media). So, even going by that example alone exclusive devotion (as far as Christianity is concerned) and as far as scripture goes to one . . . Jehovah God. The article goes on to discuss idolatry . . . again, I can not speak for everyone's Greek experience however I have firsthand knowledge that it is ripe with idolatry among other things. That's what the article has to do with whether or not Frats and Sor. are against Christianity.

Oh ok.

I just wish folks who keep pointing to scripture would just make some clear arguments about it.

Maybe it is that everyone's Greek experience is different. Since becoming a Delta I haven't been involved in any idol worship or devotion to anything other than God, but that's just me.

Hmm. If you want to pm me and talk about specifics that would be great (since I don't want to put private stuff out for the public to see).

[LovinLocks]

Yeah, I know what you mean msa. Here's some food for thought since I believe many of the Greek practices are shared . . . some things that are idolatrous may not be considered such due to ignorance.

Think about this . . . how many times, when it comes to theocratic discussions, have your heard someone say, "Well, I believe . . . !" Oft times people can/will explain away their actions, their thoughts or whatever by saying, "I believe". But, when idolatry is considered from God's standpoint it may cause surprise (in those who know no better) that what they are doing is tantamount to idolatry which is detestable to God. On that note I'm outta this Forum. Yaw'll take care.

LL

[msa]

Yeah, I know what you mean msa. Here's some food for thought since I believe many of the Greek practices are shared . . . some things that are idolatrous may not be considered such due to ignorance.

Think about this . . . how many times, when it comes to theocratic discussions, have your heard someone say, "Well, I believe . . . !" Oft times people can/will explain away their actions, their thoughts or whatever by saying, "I believe". But, when idolatry is considered from God's standpoint it may cause surprise (in those who know no better) that what they are doing is tantamount to idolatry which is detestable to God. On that note I'm outta this Forum. Yaw'll take care.

LL

Well can you come back and give me an explanation of what idolatry is from God's standpoint? From what I understand I'm not supposed to have any gods before Him or make any idols and worship them. I'm not seeing how membership does that I guess.

It's not that I'm trying to explain away my actions, I'm just trying to see where they are wrong. Is it in singing a song? wearing letters? going to meetings? Maybe I am just ignorant...if I am, help me out.

[LovinLocks]

Well can you come back and give me an explanation of what idolatry is from God's standpoint? From what I understand I'm not supposed to have any gods before Him or make any idols and worship them. I'm not seeing how membership does that I guess.

It's not that I'm trying to explain away my actions, I'm just trying to see where they are wrong. Is it in singing a song? wearing letters? going to meetings? Maybe I am just ignorant...if I am, help me out.

IDOL, IDOLATRY

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
[more in your PM area, dahlin'].

Thought the following was interesting:
http://pentecostalplace.wordpress.co...or-christians/

[msa]

IDOL, IDOLATRY

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
[more in your PM area, dahlin'].

Thought the following was interesting:
http://pentecostalplace.wordpress.co...or-christians/

What is an idol? This says an idol can be:
-an image
-a representation of anything
-a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion (whether real or imagined).
-a real or supposed higher power (ex: human, animal, organization, force, object from nature, etc.).

What is idolatry? This says idolatry is:
-veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol
-form, ceremony, or ritual

Ok so if you take the greek organization as the idol and its rituals/ceremonies as idolatry then I can see the issue.

Here's where we disagree...I don't believe something is an idol just because it exists. In order for it to be an idol, I have to consider it so or act in a way that makes it an idol in my life. While I can see how that's true for some members, I don't think it's true for everyone. That's why I don't think membership automatically equates to idolatry.

[LovinLocks]

While I can see how that's true for some members,

Hmmm, that statement begs the question "Why would a true Christian subject themselves to the unnecessary association of anyone (individual or group) that engages in such behavior" in accordance with scripture (see below)?

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?

15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?

16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.”

17 “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’”

18 “‘And I shall be a father to YOU, and YOU will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.”

I don't think it's true for everyone. That's why I don't think membership automatically equates to idolatry.

Good night, my hunny bunny is on the line.

[msa]

Hmmm, that statement begs the question "Why would a true Christian subject themselves to the unnecessary association of anyone (individual or group) that engages in such behavior" in accordance with scripture (see below)?

First, I hate with a passion the term "true Christian". I can't judge whether anyone is a true Christian by looking at their actions, the only person who can judge is God.

Anyway, let's be real. Christians associate with people all day every day with people who commit idolatry...friends, other christians, family members, and themselves. The fact is, I can't judge whether someone is making the organization their idol and it's not my place to do so. Just like any other group I'm a part of, I separate myself from the people who I don't want to be around...that may include people who seem to be idolators, but it can also include those who have other behaviors as well.

My point is...membership does not = idolatry. And, I can't tell who is an idolator just by looking. From all the scriptures I've seen, it appears to depend on the person and what place they give the organization in their life. If anything, the scriptures presented have shown me exactly what I need to avoid. If it's a problem for another's spiritual walk, then I respect that. It's just not a problem for mine.

[LovinLocks]

3) Secrecy about the internal workings of an organization is not inherently evil, and many different entities require it. Oaths and vows are not inherently evil either, so I'm not seeing the problem there. Members of the armed forces have to take an oath. Doctors take an oath. The president took an oath. It's the type of oath, at least the one I know I took that I took issue with. Even before I got out, I used to ask myself why the founders chose to use greek symbols, letters, terms? And what was the meaning behind the process, why we had to go through certain things. After going back and looking at what I went through and comparing it to things that happened in the bible my answer was that there is a natural world, the one we live in, and there is a spiritual world. So things that happen in the natural world have a great spiritual impact that we don't see.

Hmmm.....Let's see some scriptures that were potent to me.

Ephesians 6:12 - Why? Because when I started to see how certain processes, mimicked certain things that happened in the Bible, I knew it was no coincidence and these things had a spiritual meaning behind them that had nothing to do with the organization.

Exodus 20:3-5 - Why? Because the oath that we took, and certain songs and chants that are even sung in stepshows today contradict this commandment.

I John 2:5-17 - Why? Because these organizations are BIG on community service and the websites are packed full of accomplishments of the sorority. You have to admit, there is nothing humble about it. Regardless of what I thought when we did community service. When we did something great for the community the sorority was exalted, NOT God and the sacrifice of Christ. My work was going to the benefit of the sorority. Whenever we were out in the community at certain events we made sure to where para so that people would know who we were representing.

I will post more if you want.

As far as the symbols, (this is purely my opinion) the only symbol I need is Christ and He is the only one I need to identify with. From Him I get my wisdom, understanding, strength, light and whatever else.

I guess this is important to me, because we see blatant sin, and works against God everyday and know this country is full of examples however, it's the things that are not so obvious that are the most dangerous.

Star,

Had I read your post yesterday I most likely would not have wasted my energies with all the posts that I wrote. You hit the nail on the head. Try as I might to be politically correct in saying my experience may not have been had by some others the bottom line is, I know my experience was typical.

t's the things that are not so obvious that are the most dangerous.

Yes, spiritually dangerous and insidious even!

Take care all.