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  #41  
Old 04-05-2012, 02:39 PM
MonPetite MonPetite is offline
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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  #42  
Old 04-05-2012, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by Shimmie View Post
@LittleGoldenLamb... great post above.

I agree wholeheartedly that the 'Church' needs to have scriptural instruction for sex regarding our children/teens/singles.

I pray that what I am about to say does not sound or seem insensitive, it's not meant to be. I can assure you.

However when it comes to a man and wife, how can sex be so complicated? It's simple, at least to me it is. What's the problem between a man and wife and sex ?
Speaking from experience...it can be.

And from what I got from the article it didnt seem like they were discussing the actual mechanics of sex but the the necessity of meeting each others needs in this area..perhaps especially in ways that many have been taught are taboo. Basically re-framing it in its rightful place.
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  #43  
Old 04-05-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by LittleGoldenLamb View Post
We are so indoctrinated in the perversion of the world that it complicates what was once simple.

It's not making sex more than it is --it's editing out all the other junk the world has added. Even things that are technically not "sins", but carry heavy tainting of the world or had a worldly start are not made clean by the marriage bed.

Putting the healthy with the sick, does not make the sick healthy. It makes the healthy sick.

Okay, NOW I'm out.
@LittleGoldenLamb

So who makes the decision about what is "junk/perverse" and what is "holy" in the marriage bed?

Can we for real sit around (hypothetically) and tell a married couple that they shouldnt do XYZ in their marriage bed cause that will taint it?

I do totally agree that the world has perverted what God intended. But that perversion was by illicitly engaging with others that were not ones spouse and not having the committed relationship (which would include loving and cherishing your partner) that is required to experience the physical and spiritual fullness of intimacy that God intended. Thats the sick part!

Question: Are you considering a stripper pole in the bedroom perverse? or are you perhaps talking about other extremes such as sado-masichism etc.

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  #44  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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  #45  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

I am sure that this is a distraction.
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  #46  
Old 04-06-2012, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

I think one thing we can all agree on is that church really NEEDS to minister everyone about sex. It doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, teenager, adult, single or married you need some clear cut lessons in this area because there has been so much corruption in the area of sex, people don't know what's right and what's wrong. I remember how it was being a teen in my parents church and sitting there starving to be ministered to. I mean messages like "Just be strong when that walk gets difficult" is good and all but exactly what does that mean? There were lots of vague indirect sermons like this in my parents church but that was very unfortunate because there were quite a few of us teens (and adults as well) that needed to hear a blunt message about sex! I do understand it's a very difficult topic to tackle but no need to be afraid, we really do need to take sex back and purify it again. Now me personally, using stripper poles and stripper shoes and a bed as promps is a bit too much. You really don't need to do all that to get the message across but that's my own opinion.
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  #47  
Old 04-06-2012, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

*sigh* Someone did not do their research on the origin of the stripper pole.

Here is a novel idea: invite the Holy Spirit into the marriage bed.

A small group setting is best for this type of topic, but that should not stop anyone from seeking His guidance on the issue. If I had known about refinement, death to self, and to ask for what He excepted of me, I would have avoided pre-marital sex altogether.
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  #48  
Old 04-06-2012, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by Brighteyes35 View Post
I think one thing we can all agree on is that church really NEEDS to minister everyone about sex. It doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, teenager, adult, single or married you need some clear cut lessons in this area because there has been so much corruption in the area of sex, people don't know what's right and what's wrong. I remember how it was being a teen in my parents church and sitting there starving to be ministered to. I mean messages like "Just be strong when that walk gets difficult" is good and all but exactly what does that mean? There were lots of vague indirect sermons like this in my parents church but that was very unfortunate because there were quite a few of us teens (and adults as well) that needed to hear a blunt message about sex! I do understand it's a very difficult topic to tackle but no need to be afraid, we really do need to take sex back and purify it again. Now me personally, using stripper poles and stripper shoes and a bed as promps is a bit too much. You really don't need to do all that to get the message across but that's my own opinion.
As a married woman ITA. Too much "don't do this and don't do that" doesn't help real people with real emotions and hormones. Being in church and being in the presence of the Holy Spirit leaves a person very physically and emotionally vulnerable. Emotions run high, and with people in close proximity, seeing each other all the time with all the events going on, fornication and adultry is often a result. Especially in a church full of young people, and I used to attend one. Its good to have someone minister about sex in the way God intended, and how the world has painted sex is wrong in many ways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpened View Post
*sigh* Someone did not do their research on the origin of the stripper pole.

Here is a novel idea: invite the Holy Spirit into the marriage bed.

A small group setting is best for this type of topic, but that should not stop anyone from seeking His guidance on the issue. If I had known about refinement, death to self, and to ask for what He excepted of me, I would have avoided pre-marital sex altogether.
Girl people don't understand that THIS IS KEY to being sexually fulfilled in the marriage bed. Its about your mind in the situation. I tell people all the time, in a marriage, God can fix any situation that needs help. Even sex. When sex in a marriage is not good it can ruin that marriage. People don't know, YOU CAN ASK GOD to help you and your spouse in the sex department. I'll put myself out there and share that at one point sex was getting a little mundane between me and hubby. I wasn't frustrated YET..but I was getting there. So I said a quick prayer and trusted God to handle it however he saw fit. I told God I want to excite my husband, and I want us to enjoy it 1000% again...And it worked. And it still works...It had a lot to do with us just being so busy....And we are still busy, even more now than ever, but we enjoy it so much more.... THAT is how you allow the Holy spirit to enter your marriage bed. The marriage bed is really any and everywhere. Because your DH has to make love to your mind too as well as your body. Our perspective of sex is SO backwards in this day and age. I applaud this minister for being bold enough in the Holy Spirit to even approach this subject.
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  #49  
Old 04-10-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by LittleGoldenLamb View Post
God --and please know, I don't say that to be facetious!! I'm trying to go by what He has and has not admonished his people for doing in relation to marriage, within scripture as a whole.







Yes. In fact we've already done that --no bestiality, pedophilia, three-somes, etc. Many have made the argument that the marriage bed makes "anything" including those things "clean". Not so.







Yup!







This is a good example --stripper poles started in a place designed to encourage sin: strip clubs. Bringing that into a marriage doesn't change that origin. Also, I'm not equating "skrippin'" with truly artistic art forms that require a pole --such as acts seen in Cirque Du Soliel; however, let's not be "brand new" though!



The feats performed by acrobats in Cirque Du Soliel do not resemble one of "Black China's" routines!



If you're whirling around to some classic Enya or something (humor me here, lol!) looking like some ethereal creature sailing through the clouds and that makes your hubby then awesome, I suppose.



Bringing "strip culture" and all that comes with it (because you can't truly divorce the two, what makes it "sexy" to your hubby is what made it a tantalizing sin in the secular, in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't bother bringing it into the bedroom for the sake of being sexy for hubby!) into a Christian marriage, and saying that being married makes it "clean" --while Lil John is screaming: "Put it in your mouth b----, it's yours!" and "Get that n---- hard!"...eh, I'm going to need a good argument for that.



Same with BDSM, certain role playing (pretending to be a child, rape fantasy, etc.), etc. If what made it "sex'y to the secular world it was born in, encouraged sin, then doing it within a Christian marriage doesn't suddenly sanctify it. That's a horribly slippery slope.



Still, we have to take certain things back --things the church often shuns or refuses to talk about like: certain types of massage, dancing for hubby in general, romantic/erotic poetry (and its skillful recitation between partners), love songs (not lust songs, but actual love songs), knowledge of positions, techniques --stay with me, I'm trying to keep this G-rated here-- and so forth, DO need to be taken back from the world.



Having practical knowledge about how to please your mate isn't sin --it's wise. We can't pretend sex isn't an important part of marriage --we all know it is, and that "vanilla" isn't everyone's flavor (Again, I'm trying to keep it G-rated here, roll with me ).



Trying to carry aspects of "porn culture", "club culture", "sex tape culture", etc. into a Christian marriage and call it clean...not so wise.



I hope I'm being clear @CoilyFields. I'm not trying to be combative, by the way, and I'd be open to good arguments. I've said it on LHCF before that I'm a 25 year-old virgin --by choice. I take marriage and ALL its aspects seriously...which is why future hubby Will.Not.Know.What.Hit.Him.


Hey @LittleGoldenLamb, I'm soooooo late! Sorry lol



Sis I know you're not being combative! lol. We just seem to be on the same page with some things but leagues apart on others.

I just see it like this:

The Bible has been specific on what is a sin concerning sexual relations but we have personal preferences concerning other things, and no one has the right to make their personal preference into a right/wrong or sin/pure issue in another persons marriage.


We agree, For example: The Bible says no bestiality, no sex with (including lusting after) people you're not married to, no rape, homosexuality etc.

But we disagree here: It does NOT say no stripper poles. I know! I know! I'm not splitting hairs here, what I mean is that it did not say that this "position/act" is holy/pure etc and this "position/act" isnt, this way of intimacy is ok (outside of the above mentioned) and this way isnt. So if the married couple wants to put mirrors on the ceiling and install a swing set in their bedroom for their pleasure...then where in the Bible is the premise that this is wrong/vile/profane (even if the world did do it first)?

Because there are plenty of things (sexually related or not) that the world invented that we adopt (cheerfully) into our lifestyles. For this example; lingerie, birth control, KY (and other sensual oils), "moodsetting" music, toys, rotating beds (lol) etc. (And I am fully aware that even with this short list I named some people will agree with some and not others but we have to be careful in what we label a "sin" when its really just our personal preferences)


My point is, it is not the specific acts of sexual intimacy that are sins or not sins...it is the condition under which they are performed that classifies then as wrong. A stripper pole in a club...sinful!...A stripper pole in a married couples bedroom...not sinful! Another example...I really like dancing but will rarely dance in public because I dance really sexy and explicit (what is considered normal in todays clubs lol). But I see nothing wrong with droppin it like its hot (even without music) for my hubby! Once again, not the actual act in and of itself that is wrong...its the setting/conditions under which that act is played out that makes it wrong.

On another note:

I do understand how some may think the Pastor is doing too much. But assigning sinful intent to the Pastors and congregations motivation for coming to the class based on ones own disapproval of the picture shown is out of line.
Why would we assume that this Church somehow doesn't preach the gospel because they had this class? Why would we assume that the Church isnt packed on Sunday Mornings as well as this friday for the class? Why are we assuming that the people that came to that class had even seen the set beforehand and it was lust that drove them to attend the session? There's a lot of assumption going on based off of a picture...Its perfectly ok to think the bedroom scene was inappropriate without having further insight on what actually took place but its not ok to assign sinful (heart) motives and actions without proper evidence.

But at the end of the day...if my DH had a foot fetish (and I dont care if he was born with the inclination or he picked it up in the world) I would be at the nail shop every other day fulfilling his fantasy and letting him have his way with these little piggies. And there is no way that I would believe it was sinful to do so.

ok! It is hard to keep it G-rated but I really am trying not to offend anyone with my language or examples whether you agree with me or not...hope I succeeded!
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  #50  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:35 PM
MonPetite MonPetite is offline
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  #51  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

^^^That is so true! Great example (meat of the idols)!
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by CoilyFields View Post
I would view this differently. I would say that the spicey things originated in the marriage bed but escaped to become an indulgence between unmarried people. It should all be brought back to the marriage bed! Sexual creativity and indulgences were meant for marriage.

I mean think about it...
Sex itself was created and undulged in by married couples first...then prostitution/adultery/fornication stole it! lol

Stripping...come one now...Im SURE wives were stripping and dancing for their husbands long before bordellos and strip clubs came into existance.

The world took what was sacred and made it dirty...took what was legitimate and bastardized it...took what was clean and perverted it. Not the actual acts of sex and "spice" etc. but by making it between unmarried folk (in private or public settings). So nothing wrong with reclaiming what was once ours (for those who are married).
I don't really think this is about "stripping" per se, though that word automatically has negative connotations. With respect to the picture in the op, I am fairly sure that stripping is being thought of in the context of strip clubs because the picture shows a bunch of dollar bills all around. So many people are being socialized to express themselves sexually in certain ways through what has been seen and done around them.

I see a woman dancing for her husband, and a husband thinking of his wife like the strippers he used to throw money at as very different things. It's just a different spirit.
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by Shimmie View Post
I don't like it ...

Why make smut out of what God designed to be beautiful.

Now is this the same man who made all of the married couples kiss in front of the congregation a while back?

Obviously, this man is getting his jollies off of this. Why on earth is he so absorbed in this mess. He's telling on himself, making his fastasies obvious and trying to use the Church to validate his cheap fantasies.
Is this really that pastor? I've never seen so many side eyes at once.


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Originally Posted by Shimmie View Post
This man has a spirit of 'lust' in him; there's pornography in his heart and it is out of control. No man of God who is RIGHT with God and is lead of the Holy Spirit and not of the FLESH would EVER bring this into a House of Worship. None of this honours nor does it bring worship unto God. None of it! Absolutely none of it.

And what's so sad here is that even the World knows better and would not bring this into a Church. That's what's sad! Extremely sad!

This is NOT for the House of God where God is worshipped. He's getting people riled up in the flesh / loins and not in their hearts to honour the Lord God. This just grieves me so ... It's extremely grieving. This man is commiting a major sin by deflecting people's hearts away from worshipping God.

Folks don't need lessons on sex... once they're naked nature follows it's course. "They" meaning a man and a woman (husband and wife). No other gender fixes. It's one man, one woman, husband and wife.

Another thing... that bedroom pictured above is just Ugly!
This reminds me of an experience I had at a church. I would visit their friday evening open mic nights and there was always this theme from the men about lust and impure thoughts. They would talk about how difficult it was to watch some of the female performers, but how they were holding strong.

Eventually, all this talk about "godly sexuality" really started to seem like a strong indication that these men had not conquered the spirit of lust in them at all. They kept harping on it because that spirit was still dominating them. I mean, they were basically talking about how they were lusting after the Christian women singing on stage. Something I later saw with a leader and a couple of women in the church ended up confirming it.

So just because sex is being spoken of in a spiritual context does not mean that the conversation is flowing from the Holy Spirit.
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  #54  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:33 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Originally Posted by nicola.kirwan View Post
Is this really that pastor? I've never seen so many side eyes at once.




This reminds me of an experience I had at a church. I would visit their friday evening open mic nights and there was always this theme from the men about lust and impure thoughts. They would talk about how difficult it was to watch some of the female performers, but how they were holding strong.

Eventually, all this talk about "godly sexuality" really started to seem like a strong indication that these men had not conquered the spirit of lust in them at all. They kept harping on it because that spirit was still dominating them. I mean, they were basically talking about how they were lusting after the Christian women singing on stage.

Something I later saw with a leader and a couple of women in the church ended up confirming it.

So just because sex is being spoken of in a spiritual context does not mean that the conversation is flowing from the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for making this clear.

Nicola, I've witnessed so many 'fall'. (Note: Now to me one falling is 'so many').

But... yeah... I've witnessed so many fall. *sigh* And the catalyst 'seemed' to be due to messages like this coming from the pulpit.

Nicola, back in the late 80's and into the 90's there arose a spirit of divorces flooding Chrisitian marriages. 'You' (general sense) turn around and it was one marriage after another falling apart and it was CRAZY... a whirlwind of pure craziness. I mean in the pulpit crazy.

And you know when it started... at least from my witness. When 'sex' became too topical in the sermons and Bible studies.

Nicola... I can name names... Oh yes I can. I won't, but trust me I can name names.

Bottomline, sex was not being taught under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It was being taught without restraint; without regard to the Holiness of it.

It became a subject of the flesh and not of marriage joined in spirit, soul and body. It was to the point where it was no different than folks in the world laughing and joking about sex and it was just too far off the path of holiness.

I totally agree that we need to have correct sex counseling and taught in levels of age appropriateness and to the appropriate audience / church members. Church should not mimick or even come near the atmosphere of a Bolero; it is not a 'club' or parlor of pleasure. Church is a place of worship; no where should there be any other activity of the flesh present.

Nicola, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you are an 'Observer'. You observe, wait and listen to what the Holy Spirit is showing you. This is your 'gift', your gift among many which God has bestowed upon you. God's wisdom is what you cherish and it shows in you well.

Blessings
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:43 AM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

I just wanna say you ladies are all on point. It's refreshing and encouraging to read your posts. It's nice to be in the company of strong women when you are struggling with this topic. Thank you!
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:16 AM
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

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Quote:
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Men don't get enough leadership on conquering lust these days --they just end up blaming women, instead of "manning-up" and admitting they have far more power in the matter than they wish to admit.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

Well I can speak for myself, but when I get married its certain things I am not doing. I will let my spouse know ahead of time, so its no surprises
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:21 PM
nicola.kirwan nicola.kirwan is offline
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Default Re: Pastor Put Stripper Pole In Bedroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmie View Post

Nicola, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you are an 'Observer'. You observe, wait and listen to what the Holy Spirit is showing you. This is your 'gift', your gift among many which God has bestowed upon you. God's wisdom is what you cherish and it shows in you well.

Blessings
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
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