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  #21  
Unread 03-15-2012, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

I appreciate everyone's comments... you know, we always say we are the ones who limit God.....

From looking at not just rap but other musical genres, I've come to the conclusion music is music. God created music, the devil perverted it. With Lucifer being the band leader and now fallen, Satan does indeed have a foothold on music on earth. STILL, he didn't create music.

I asked this question about rap/hip hop, simply because there was discussion among other Christians about the distinction. Hip Hop is a worldly culture, but it's not limited to music and clothes ..(it includes and promotes attitudes, such as love of money, greed, lusts, lasciviousness, all kinds of idolatry, etc.) If an artist who is saved and is gifted to rap, are they really caught up in the culture if they dress a certain way, was my question.

We are to avoid every appearance of evil, that includes avoiding evil or anything even seems to be wrong. Since when is a song dedicated to God evil or wrong? *scratching head* And black folk are always most critical of black folk. We'll reject rap but embrace Rock. Both genres have Christian artists..

Here is Jeremy Camp, a contemporary Christian Rock artist:


Here is LeCrae, a rap Christian artist:


What do you see? Anyone listens to their music?

I do listen to all types of Christian music...music that moves stirs my soul, set me to look inward or to God. @sidney, you're right and God has spoken to you through that dream to make this point clear: whenever an artist is being glorified -- it can cause soulish idolatry. That's with any musical genre.

So I agree, we have to be careful that we are not worshiping these artists as gods. To presuppose that is their intentions without knowing, is in fact, evil.
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  #22  
Unread 03-15-2012, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

It's not about the dress, but the persona they display.

Our dressing isn't the a complete part of our Christianity, but it is important. If it wasn't important to God, then there wouldn't be scriptures that reference how we should dress.

You have to realize that God never intended anything about Him or for Him to be mixed with with these of the wrong. Did not rap music start as a thing of the world? Did we not bring these custom from the world into our churches?


And for the scripture you referenced you have to use that scripture in its right context. He told Samuel this because Samuel was looking at the outward appearances of David brothers to see who would be King. David was impressed by the build of the men and figured since they big and strong that they would be the one who should be picked. But David was small in stature, probably didnt seem qualified for the position. But God said He looked at the heart of David because He knew what was in him and what he called Him to be. That does not mean God dont care about what we wear. If thats the case, then why does God prohibit tattoos? It's on the outside? So God shouldn't care right? Why does the bible speak about a man having long hair or a woman cutting her hair? God don't care about our hair and clothes right? Well why in 1st Timothy, it tells you we as women should dress modest? So there is some emphasis on what we should wear.

I am not judging the gospel rappers just on apperance alone. If you read my posts before, I am talking about how SIMILAR and alike they are to worldly rappers. God never wanted us to take ways of the world. We are always to remain seperate.


I will be back some examples
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifi134 View Post
Can you name specific artists? I never see Reach Records artists dressed like that, but correct me if I'm wrong.

The lyrics these artists rap adhere to Scripture. That is what is important. I think it's really sad that they're being dismissed because of the way they supposedly dress. I've never heard a song from a legitimate Christian rapper who's referred to Jesus as his homeboy.

Heads banging to a beat is no different to me than one clapping their hands or stomping their feet to a song. Beats booming is no different from cymbals being clashed. Just because something is attached to a culture doesn't mean it itself is inherently evil. The message is not being heard because too many are focusing on what they look like, or are trying to compare them to worldly artists. This isn't fair at all. Christian rock and contemporary artists (I listen to them too) don't get scrutinized like this but it's no different. God can use any vessel as He sees fit.

As far as the Christian rap artists I know, they don't dance inappropriately, they just rap. I went to a Trip Lee concert and he literally just stood there on the stage reciting. It's just a poem with beats. The beat is not what's evil, the message being preached can be. That's why we must search all things and see how it matches up with Scripture.

Rap may not be one's choice for Christian music, but that doesn't mean one should dismiss it as invalid. Not everyone wants to be listening to Mahalia Jackson.

1 Samuel 16:7:

"But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmie View Post
Absolutely beautiful... the words and his heart that flows within the lines.

Can he just 'sing' it? No 'runs'........ no 'rap'........ just sing, with the words flowing from his spirit, giving God the glory.

Rap... has the sounds of the 'appearance of evil'. In no way am I saying that he is. Not at all. However, rap is sharp, and it's tone and rhythm sounds too much like like the harshness of the world.

@LoveisYou... Thank you for sharing the lyrics, they are truly beautiful, just like the heart of you.
I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:

"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."

ESSNCE.COM: Why is it so hard for Christian Hip Hop to be accepted in the Gospel industry?
LECRAE: Hip Hop culture has been portrayed as sinful, evil, and unclean. When truthfully, every culture has aspects that are messed up. But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently. Cocaine is portrayed as an addictive illegal drug, but doctors use it as a topical anesthetic. The drug isn't the problem, people's intention and desire is the problem. Hip Hop isn't the problem. Art, rhythm, expression, and rhyme are not the problem. The motivation, heart, and use of them are. We call it sin. That's the real problem.

Then I listen to his songs like Don't Waste Your Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbQyQavqqMI), and I can't help but wonder if he's not just merely using a means of expression, rap, to bring glory to God. In the same way ppl use art, poetry, music, drums, and dance.....you know.
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  #24  
Unread 03-15-2012, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

These are only TWO examples of christian artists you have provided. So to say they all are alike is really pushing it. So lets not put everything on just Lacrae and Jeremy Camp.They are many more out there.The reason why no other music genre was talked about is because the name of your thread is Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"? , so of course Hip hop is being discussed.

I said in posts before that alot of them may be sincere, but good intentions dont make things right.

We we start thinking on how WE feel, we error. We have to stick to scripture. You said music is just music and then you said, music can be perverted, so that means music can be defiled. All music is not pure music. All music is not approved of God. If thats the case we can listen to all sex, drug, murder filled music then? NO.


You said it yourself that Hip hop is a culture. A culture is the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization. So it goes waaaayyyyyy beyond how they dress. The way they dress was ONE variable that was used to relate to wordliness not the only one.

And you said "Black folk is the most critical of black folk? So when is hip hop just about black people? There are whites who are in the hip hop movement, asians, mexicans, etc Remember now, its not about race, its about culture, way of life, its about beliefs and attitudes.

The was a man in the bible (Cant remember his name) . But they was carrying around the Ark of the convenant and God said only the priest was suppose to touch the ark. This particular man was not a priest. Well he seen the Ark falling and he reached out and grabbed the ark. God killed him. Some may say...oh no! How could God kill the man, he was only trying to help!! Well God said, Dont do it and he did it anyway.Therefore judgement had fallen. So its not about what we feel is right. Its about what does God say. And God said, "Be not conformed to the world,", and rap AND rock was originated from the world. So alot of them may be sincere. (So was the man who grabbed the ark)....but are they right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laela View Post
I appreciate everyone's comments... you know, we always say we are the ones who limit God.....

From looking at not just rap but other musical genres, I've come to the conclusion music is music. God created music, the devil perverted it. With Lucifer being the band leader and now fallen, Satan does indeed have a foothold on music on earth. STILL, he didn't create music.

I asked this question about rap/hip hop, simply because there was discussion among other Christians about the distinction. Hip Hop is a worldly culture, but it's not limited to music and clothes ..(it includes and promotes attitudes, such as love of money, greed, lusts, lasciviousness, all kinds of idolatry, etc.) If an artist who is saved and is gifted to rap, are they really caught up in the culture if they dress a certain way, was my question.

We are to avoid every appearance of evil, that includes avoiding evil or anything even seems to be wrong. Since when is a song dedicated to God evil or wrong? *scratching head* And black folk are always most critical of black folk. We'll reject rap but embrace Rock. Both genres have Christian artists..

Here is Jeremy Camp, a contemporary Christian Rock artist:


Here is LeCrae, a rap Christian artist:


What do you see? Anyone listens to their music?

I do listen to all types of Christian music...music that moves stirs my soul, set me to look inward or to God. @sidney, you're right and God has spoken to you through that dream to make this point clear: whenever an artist is being glorified -- it can cause soulish idolatry. That's with any musical genre.

So I agree, we have to be careful that we are not worshiping these artists as gods. To presuppose that is their intentions without knowing, is in fact, evil.
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  #25  
Unread 03-15-2012, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

@ Tupac

Yet the Gospel is for everyone... the message has to get through; everyone can't listen to the same kinds of songs. God made us all unique and different. Those same folks may not want to hear Shirley Caesar belt out a tune. They might even tune her out... because they chose to tune her out, doesn't mean the message isn't there.




Quote:
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Preach @Shimmie

I know people say the "message" is good, but its hard to hear the message when it sounds like Im listening to Jay-Z or Tupac..
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

So would God take something thats filthy and condone it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveisYou View Post
I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:

"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."

ESSNCE.COM: Why is it so hard for Christian Hip Hop to be accepted in the Gospel industry?
LECRAE: Hip Hop culture has been portrayed as sinful, evil, and unclean. When truthfully, every culture has aspects that are messed up. But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently. Cocaine is portrayed as an addictive illegal drug, but doctors use it as a topical anesthetic. The drug isn't the problem, people's intention and desire is the problem. Hip Hop isn't the problem. Art, rhythm, expression, and rhyme are not the problem. The motivation, heart, and use of them are. We call it sin. That's the real problem.

Then I listen to his songs like Don't Waste Your Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbQyQavqqMI), and I can't help but wonder if he's not just merely using a means of expression, rap, to bring glory to God. In the same way ppl use art, poetry, music, drums, and dance.....you know.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

@Lela

I was trying to give something that the older folks could relate too as well

And by no means am I personally attacking you. This is a healthy discussion
I know I can get "excited" in my discussions....


ETA: I dont really like Shirely Cesar that much..too much hollering...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laela View Post
@ Tupac

Yet the Gospel is for everyone... the message has to get through; everyone can't listen to the same kinds of songs. God made us all unique and different. Those same folks may not want to hear Shirley Caesar belt out a tune. They might even tune her out... because they chose to tune her out, doesn't mean the message isn't there.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicialynn86 View Post
So would God take something thats filthy and condone it?
He said it was portrayed as such, he didn't say it was filthy. Real Hip Hop is NOT filthy it has been perverted by some rap artists unfortunately. The history of Hip Hop is not based on filth. But to answer your question, yes! All of us were filthy in our sin until Jesus redeemed us! He is the redeemer! Lecrae actually made that point after the sentence you bolded.

"But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently."

In fact, all forms of expression have been perverted by the world. Art, music of all genre, motion picture, poetry, do we stop expressing because the world have perverted those means? Or do we glorify God anyhow? Let's take ourselves out of the picture for now? You may not understand/like rap, but what bout the other people it has the potential to reach? What about the seeds he could plant with his music? What about them?
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

That gave me pause as well, I don't agree with Lecrae on this..the hip hop culture is a sinful one. But I beleive he's trying to make it a good thing because his music can classify as that and he is glorifying God with his music. But it doesn't work that way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveisYou View Post
I completely understand where you are coming from, but then I read quotes (like the below) by Lecrae in response to criticism of Christian rap and they cause me to pause:

"Imagine a butcher knife. Society says it’s a murder weapon, but I use it to cut meat off a bone and serve food to the homeless. I am bringing life. It’s all in how you use it."

ESSNCE.COM: Why is it so hard for Christian Hip Hop to be accepted in the Gospel industry?
LECRAE: Hip Hop culture has been portrayed as sinful, evil, and unclean. When truthfully, every culture has aspects that are messed up. But when something is redeemed or given new direction, it can still maintain its substance. It just functions differently. Cocaine is portrayed as an addictive illegal drug, but doctors use it as a topical anesthetic. The drug isn't the problem, people's intention and desire is the problem. Hip Hop isn't the problem. Art, rhythm, expression, and rhyme are not the problem. The motivation, heart, and use of them are. We call it sin. That's the real problem.

Then I listen to his songs like Don't Waste Your Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbQyQavqqMI), and I can't help but wonder if he's not just merely using a means of expression, rap, to bring glory to God. In the same way ppl use art, poetry, music, drums, and dance.....you know.
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

@ALICIALYNN, you've got me over here. Don't mean to make it a racial thing thing.. I'll try to stick to hip hop/rap.. LOL ..ahh...zeal can cause error.
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Well Christ came so WE can be redeemed and cleansed by the blood, not hip hop. Jesus didn't die for Hip Hop, he died for us. So we have the oppurtunity to be redeemed.


But my point is, would God use something that is seen or potrayed as evil to glorify Himself with it?
Remember, the bible says To flee all appearance of evil. So if God says to flee things that even look like it may be evil, would he use something that is seen as evil..........that would contradict His word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveisYou View Post
He said it was portrayed as such, he didn't say it was filthy. Real Hip Hop is NOT filthy it has been perverted by some rap artists unfortunately. The history of Hip Hop is not based on filth. But to answer your question, yes! All of us were filthy in our sin until Jesus redeemed us! He is the redeemer! Lecrae actually made that point after the sentence you bolded.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicialynn86 View Post
Well Christ came so WE can be redeemed and cleansed by the blood, not hip hop. Jesus didn't die for Hip Hop, he died for us. So we have the oppurtunity to be redeemed.


But my point is, would God use something that is seen or protrayed as evil to glorify Himself with it?
Remember, the bible says To flee all appearance of evil. So if God says to flee things that even look like it may be evil, would he use something that is seen as evil..........that would contradict His word.
...and we have been redeemed so we can glorify Him, isn't that what Lecrae is doing? What the devil meant for evil God can make for good right? Is it possible for God to use hip hop through people to reach certain communities/listeners?
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laela View Post
That gave me pause as well, I don't agree with Lecrae on this..the hip hop culture is a sinful one. But I beleive he's trying to make it a good thing because his music can classify as that and he is glorifying God with his music. But it doesn't work that way.
Nearly all forms of expression have been perverted, do we not use those either? I think we are limiting God.
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Well the word is the word. So if you don't agree...thats fine, you are entitled to not agreeing, but it still dont change the word. We are to have nothing to do with worldy traditions..


Is lecrae glorfying God how God wants to be glorfied or he is doing it how he THINKS God wants to be glorified???


Quote:
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I don't agree at all, but to address your point, what the devil meant for evil God can make for good right? Is it possible for God to use hip hop through people to reach certain communities/listeners?
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

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Well the word is the word. So if you don't agree...thats fine, you are entitled to not agreeing, but it still dont change the word. We are to have nothing to do with worldy traditions..


Is lecrae glorfying God how God wants to be glorfied or he is doing it how he THINKS God wants to be glorified???
What word are you talking about? I honor God's word so please don't do that, where in the Bible does it say musical expression (Hip Hop) is wrong? where? If you can honestly show me, then His Truth Stands Always! I don't argue with truth. So please tell me where.

...and are you saying Lecrae isn't glorifying God because his form of expression is not your personal taste OR is there a Biblical basis for that?
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Ok. Please dont get upset about this. this is a discussion. I dont know your personal life, I am not talking about your agreement with the word in you overall life, just in relation to this topic. So if I offended you, I do apologize.

The word I am talking about , which has been repeated in like 3 of my posts...

Be not conformed to the world.(Romans 12V2).. Is not taking rap from the world, being conformed to it?

When he said to flee the appreance of evil (1 Thessalonian 5) ...would God take something evil, when he said to flee all things that look evil, to bring glory to Himself


And before I got saved, I liked rap music. So it used to be a personal choice of mine, but when I got saved, I left worldiness behind me......So it nothing about personal taste..


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Originally Posted by LoveisYou View Post
What word are you talking about? I honor God's word so please don't do that, where in the Bible does it say musical expression (Hip Hop) is wrong? where? If you can honestly show me, then His Truth Stands Always! I don't argue with truth. So please tell me where.

...and are you saying Lecrae isn't glorifying God because his form of expression is not your personal taste OR is there a Biblical basis for that?
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Unread 03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

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Originally Posted by Alicialynn86 View Post
@Lela

I was trying to give something that the older folks could relate too as well

And by no means am I personally attacking you. This is a healthy discussion
I know I can get "excited" in my discussions....


ETA: I dont really like Shirely Cesar that much..too much hollering...
Who you callin' 'older folk'.....

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Unread 03-15-2012, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

I'm not espousing that Lacrae's music is perverted or defiled, because I believe he is glorifying God with his music. He is a married father and a known radical for Christ. People get saved at his concerts. I've listened to his music and he definitely has an anointing, so I don't agree that his music is perverted. Folks who just don't like rap won't agree. There is no Scripture to support that his rapping is wrong.

What I'm saying is Lacrae is attempting to qualify the hip hop culture (which includes everyone else, like JayZ, all dem other "conscious" folks like KRS One - who have their own "bible") as Godly -- simply because of the few people like him who ARE Godly and happen to rap. Oil and water... He seems to desire to change that culture, but that is what we are all charged with as believers in the Great Commission... to change the world and be set apart, not blend in. God bless him, because he is doing his part. What sets him apart is Jesus Christ, but there should be no compromise. That was my point.




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Nearly all forms of expression have been perverted, do we not use those either? I think we are limiting God.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

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Originally Posted by Alicialynn86 View Post
Ok. Please dont get upset about this. this is a discussion. I dont know your personal life, I am not talking about your agreement with the word in you overall life, just in relation to this topic. So if I offended you, I do apologize.

The word I am talking about , which has been repeated in like 3 of my posts...

Be not conformed to the world.(Romans 12V2).. Is not taking rap from the world, being conformed to it?

When he said to flee the appreance of evil (1 Thessalonian 5) ...would God take something evil, when he said to flee all things that look evil, to bring glory to Himself


And before I got saved, I liked rap music. So it used to be a personal choice of mine, but when I got saved, I left worldiness behind me......So it nothing about personal taste..
Those scriptures do not support that rapping to glorify our Heavenly father is wrong. So again, I disagree.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Christian Rap/ Hip Hop/ "Christian Hip Hop"?

Well then we will agree to disagree


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Those scriptures do not support that rapping to glorify our Heavenly father is wrong. So again, I disagree.
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