Can someone who doesn't believe that Jesus is God be a Christian?

[EbonyEyes]

Okay so let me tell you....

This guy who did the photography at my school's fashion show came to get his check. And while we were waiting, we got to talking. And he says he loves reading the bible and holding bible studies.

Say those two things and you got me interested!

So we talked for 2 hours about God and the Bible. He said a couple of kinda odd things but I didn't think much of it at the time.

Then he asked if we could have a bible study together the following week. I said "Sure!"

So we're having the Bible study. I brought my bible (KJV) and he had his. And we're reading some topics out of a study guide and going through the scriptures.

So I'm flipping through and think to myself "What a nice study guide! Who published this?"

So I look at the front and it says "Watchtower Bible Tract Society."

My facial expression had to have been picture perfect. I looked at him and said "This study guide was produced by Jehovah's Witnesses?" He said "Yes, why?" I then say "Uhh...Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" He says "Yes I am."

My mind is going crazy because I can't believe that I'm having bible study with a Jehovah's Witness! I've heard not-so-great things about that sect. But I calmed down and decided to ask him questions and consider his answers with an open mind.

I ask him about their belief that Christ did not die on a cross but on a stake. So he's talking about that. And then he says that having crosses around your neck and in churches is idol worship!! I had to let him know that I don't pray to the cross and I wear a cross around my neck to show people that I'm a Christ-loving gal.

Then I ask him to clarify their belief about Jesus. He says that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was a great man, a sinless man. He was the son of God but he was NOT God! He then says that the Trinity has no biblical basis and the Holy Spirit is just an active force of Jehovah, not a person.

I'm totally wierded out at this point. Then he goes on about how the path to righteousness is narrow and few people *find* it. I believe he was alluding to the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses have the path right and the other Christians have it completely wrong. He said outright that we should not be worshipping Jesus because he was not God or celebrating Christmas because of its pagan basis.

He used Jesus praying to God and him saying that his father's will be done and him saying there is none good but the father as support for the claim that Jesus was not God.

I pray about this and ask God to show me in the scriptures where it shows that Jesus was God. I go to John 1 and it describes how the Word was with God and WAS God and the Word was made flesh. So then I'm thinking "It's right there in the Bible. Why don't the Witnesses believe that Jesus was God." I then read the New World Translation Bible (The photographer guy gave me a copy to read) and it reads differently. It says that the Word was a god (yes the word "god" was in lowercase letters). He claims that the New World Translation Bible came from a direct translation of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. But the book was published by the Watchtower Society. Very wierd.

Traditional Christianity teaches that Jesus was not only a man but was also God. So can someone be a Christian if they do not believe that Jesus was God as well?

Another interesting tidbit, the guy I studied with said that Jesus came back invisibly to Earth in 1914 (the year WWI) began and the Devil and his angels were kicked out of heaven that year.

Now last time I checked, Jesus said in Matthew 24 that when he came back, it would be known! So how could he have come back invisibly?

Ladies, any other scriptures you can find that support Jesus being God would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

[TJD3]

I dont think Jesus is God. I know I am a Christian. I see that as a technicality anyways. We are to go through Jesus to get to God, not worship Jesus. Does that make sense :lol: ? And no, Im not Jehova Witness.

[alexstin]

How can someone believe that Jesus is not God and be a Christian? It's an oxymoron.

[star]

Jesus is God. GOd multipled himself and put on a robe of flesh to become Jesus thats why he is called the son of God. God the father, God the son(Jesus) and God the holy Ghost. These three are all God in different manifestations. God wanted others to know that He understood the human part of us so He himself came from heaven to redeem us or to save His people. When He sent for Jesus to come to heaven God let us the Holy Spirit with in us to help us. Jesus sits on right hand side of God interceding for us as we pray. The holy spirit guides us and instructs us. God controls everything and everybody.

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. The word Christian has "christ" right in it and it basically means to follow Christ and when you follow Christ you are following God. Do research at www.biblegateway.com on Jesus the son of God. There are TONS of scripture which support this. Muslim, Jews and Jehovah witnesses donot believe Jesus is God but they think he was a angel. Jesus is our intercessor and no body comes to the Father(God) by first believing on Jesus.
Jesus is God in flesh; the holy spirit is God in spirit. God was in heaven and on earth at the same time when Jesus walked the earth.:)

God Bless

[TJD3]

I always thought that being a christian meant that you followed Christs teachings? So that being said, you are a Christian. I dont follow Muslim teachings, I follow Christs, so Im a christian. When I say that I do not believe that Jesus is God, Im not sayihng hes an "angel", I jsut dont believe in the trinity. I think all three are separate and work together. Seated at the right hand of the Father, and different scriptures settled that for me. Not to mention in my readings on Jesus I never remember Him saying that to be his follower that you had to believe He was God. I always remember Him saying that He came here to bring the message for the one who sent Him. That we can only be with the father, and to worship in spirit and in truth. I believe thats in John. Thats it for me!

Show me something I dont know ladies. What am I missing.

[Crackers Phinn]

I dont think Jesus is God. I know I am a Christian. I see that as a technicality anyways. We are to go through Jesus to get to God, not worship Jesus. Does that make sense :lol: ? And no, Im not Jehova Witness.

I actually feel the same way, but I tend to keep it to myself around religious folks.

[Trini"T"]

I was a bit confused about this also. Throughout the bible Jesus calls God His Father. He never said I AM God. I never saw "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy spirit in the bible either. However, I'm convinced they are operating as one and I also read John 1:1 which reads, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" . Later in John 1:14 it states, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". This is obviously speaking about Jesus Christ. I too had a conversation about this with a Jehova's Witness but I forgot her reply. Bottomline, she still didn't buy it:confused:

Their "bible" says, "...the Word was a god..." I don't get that because if if Jesus is the Word and and he was a god, wouldn't that then mean that God is claiming another god:confused: After he already said we are not to have any other gods before Him, why would he present another god, Jesus Christ:confused:

[TJD3]

I honestly think its all open to interpretation, but the botton line is that we go through Jesus to get to God. He was our living sacrifice to make way for us to get back to our father. A living reminder. Just as the bronze serpent was lifted to remind the Jews of Gods presence and relationship rebuilt with them, Jesus dying on the cross was our bronze serpent. John talks about this in his book.

FOr example, when Jesus spoke to the women at the well. I believe He told her that once the time comes, it would not matter where they worshiped . The bottom line, like I said before, is that they worship in spirit and truth. Like Paul says in Corinthians when people were getting hung up on the fact that you could not be a part of Gods family if you were uncircumscised. Paul told them that that is not the point, we are all welcomed in to the family of God if we believe that Jesus came down, walked among us, died, and rose again to fulfill the scripture. I dont remember anything about anyone saying believe that Jesus is God or your not Christian. I think as Christians we get hung up on technicalitys more so than the main point.

I love God, and I love His son Jesus Christ for what he chose to do for me and this world. I do my best to try to be a christian, but thats what Jesus spoke about. Trying Christians are just that, trying. Its about changing the spirit, the inner self, thus the mind will be transformed. Its about maintaining relationship with God, not breaking that bond because he is always there. Jesus allows us to reenter in that relationship with God through his sacrifice. Thats how I see it.

[fivefoursweetie]

This is a very interesting thread. Good points have been made on both sides.
I grew up believing in the trinity, and about 2 years ago, a student at a divinity school told me that the trinity was a taught doctrine, but was never actually mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I have done extensive research and I have not found any concrete "evidence" of the trinity. I do think that a lot of things are up to "interpretation" and sometimes we believe things because that it what we were taught. I don't really get too hung up on it, cause in the end I believe that Jesus is the son of God and died for my sins and that I worship God and pray In Jesus name, because I go through Jesus to get to God. I hope if someone can enlighten me on something else they would share because I love to learn.
Great thread!!!

[melangeK]

I believe that you can absolutely be a Christian w/o believing in the Trinity. I've never really understood the Trinity, and have not found anything in the Bible that substansiates it. Like one previous poster, I think Jesus sits @ the right hand of God; I've never seen the Holy Spirit as God...There is ONE God. That's how I was taught the Bible growing up, and reading it for myself over the last 15+ years, it continues to hold water. I think the Trinity is one of the most misunderstood ideas in Christianity, but that's just me.

However, at the end of the day, if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, that God raised him from the dead, and you follow Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior in your life, you are covered and VERY cool with me, regardless of whether you believe in the Trinity. We're all on the same team!

BTW, I'm not Jehovah's Witness either, and know very little about it. Happy Bible studying! :-)

[Tamsin2005]

There are many verses that can be studied to support the concept of the Trinity...One God, three persons. Here are a smattering that talk about Jesus as God....John 1:1; Acts 20:28; John 20:28; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8, Col 2:9. The Holy Spirit is identified as God in various scriptures too..Acts 5:3-4; 1John 4: 2, 3; Hebrews 10; 15, 16. Also, the concept of unity is seen within the Trinity in verses like Matthew 28:19 (one "name"). Also Phil 2:5-11 is a good synopsis of Jesus' dual nature as both God and man. You friend will likely try to use many of these scriptures to support his view.

Part of understanding who Jesus is and His work is understanding who God is and how He reveals Himself to us throughout His Word beginning in Genesis. He is the timeless, onmipotent God, who stepped into time and into flesh to save us from our sin. Jesus is that "last Adam" sent to do what the blood of animals could not; that is wipe our sins away. We're so used to thinking in Greek mythology terms about "gods" who produced children with humans. These were less than full "gods" but more than human. That is not the story of Jesus. God can only be fully God. Human flesh did not diminish Him.

Your friend is not really interested in Bible study. He is there to debate with you and without knowing the language of the Bible and using a translation they created to support a view that is not bibical (they used the KJV for years and because of that scripture in John 1:1, they created a translation that suited their needs. No other reputable translater translates that verse as "a god". There are many who don't believe but they don't fake the translation). It is highly likely that he will bring someone with him to your next study as that is a typical strategy they use. The bottom line is, they are not Christian and mostly are not interested in discussing any other view of the Bible than their own, which neither the language or church history support. I would lovingly but firmly cancel the study. I would continue to sincerely pray for him and others like him who have a genuine desire to know the Lord but have chosen to believe things that the Bible (God's word) does not support. It very much matters who you say Jesus is...

[mkh_77]

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh.

The bottom line is, they are not Christian . . .

Please refrain from telling people what they are/are not based on your personal beliefs.

Like the other ladies who have posted, I believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God, and I consider myself a Christian.

[beyondcute]

No man can be God. Jesus was a man bt I believe he was hte son of God just as I believe we are all childern of God. I think Jesus was a sprphet sent to teach us the ways of the Father, out father. I am a christian because I try ro follow his teachings.

Also about the trinity, I researched that after a pastor told me it was a teaching method. One way or the other I believe that Jesus was here and God exists and that Jesus was sent here by him to show us the truth the way and the light. Genetics and all that doesnt matter :)

[Zeal]

How can someone believe that Jesus is not God and be a Christian? It's an oxymoron.

IMHO

Um why do you not beleve Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Father is God? Do you think Jesus was a blasphemer? Because he said:

(John 10:29-31)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

I can't say that I am God or he and I are one but I can say that he is in me. If I said that he and I were one, that would be blasphemous.


Jesus is God. GOd multipled himself and put on a robe of flesh to become Jesus thats why he is called the son of God. God the father, God the son(Jesus) and God the holy Ghost. These three are all God in different manifestations. God wanted others to know that He understood the human part of us so He himself came from heaven to redeem us or to save His people. When He sent for Jesus to come to heaven God let us the Holy Spirit with in us to help us. Jesus sits on right hand side of God interceding for us as we pray. The holy spirit guides us and instructs us. God controls everything and everybody.


God Bless

Come on up in here!!!! you bettah preach!

I actually feel the same way, but I tend to keep it to myself around religious folks.

Are you "Religious Christian" or a non-religious Christian?

No offense but I am not religious I am saved. I never understood what people meant or the concept of the term "Born-again Christian" I used to think it was redundant. But when you reeeeeally think about it, it makes sense. I don't say it.....
If you say that you are Christian who am I to say that you are not?

What exactly do people mean when they say someoe is religious? I have a relationship with God and it is nothing religious about it.

[mkh_77]

(John 10:29-31)
30 I and the Father are one."

Husbands and wives are to become one when they are married, but they aren't interchangeable.

In my opinion, Jesus was a manifestation of God, but he was not God, just as children are manifestations of their parents, but they are not interchangeable with their parents. They (children) are separate entities, just as Jesus was a separate entity from God.

It is ok to not agree fully with everyone. Each person should have their own opinion. It is rude, however, to push your beliefs on someone and insist that they are wrong and you are right. I also think it's rude and non-productive to continually categorize people who post in this forum. It doesn't matter how a person views themselves, and they shouldn't be made to feel as if they have to explain themselves. This is a forum to post ideas on Christianity. Additionally, there are entirely too many subtle put-downs that get typed in this thread and are masked in Christian love. I wish it would stop so there could be a more open discussion of Christianity.

ETA: According to Merriam Webster, religious means, "1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>."

[Lotus]

Ladies, any other scriptures you can find that support Jesus being God would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

Not trying to tell you what to do... I know religion is a very sensitive subject and we don't know each other... but-

If your feeling of not wanting to 'study' with him is not of your flesh but of the Holy Spirit... then don't! Can you determine, if the feeling flesh or of God? If you can't then wait, and pray until you can. I always seem to get in trouble when I ignore the Holy Spirit even when it feels like the nice/right think to do. Be patient, and wait on your confirmation. Just tell him you'd like to re-schedule... and you'll get back with him.

God is not the author of confusion! Are you have "study" in the guise of being preached/ministered to? It is your salvation, you have your own relationship with God and for that you are accountable. Guard your eyes and ears for they are window to your mind.

Did a quick search on the net... found this site, which seems to answer your question- http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm - I have not reviewed all the scriptures listed... with my Bible... so I have no 'true' opinion of the content.

[bellydancer]

I don't think Jesus is God either. I thought he was God's SON.

[Crackers Phinn]

IMHO

Are you "Religious Christian" or a non-religious Christian?

No offense but I am not religious I am saved. I never understood what people meant or the concept of the term "Born-again Christian" I used to think it was redundant. But when you reeeeeally think about it, it makes sense. I don't say it.....
If you say that you are Christian who am I to say that you are not?

What exactly do people mean when they say someoe is religious? I have a relationship with God and it is nothing religious about it.

Zeal, I don't know if you've read any of my other posts, but I have a tendency towards being abrupt, so if what I say sounds harsh, it's just the way I am and in no way directed to you.

I think of myself simply as a Christian. I don't require any additional titles on top of it. Born Again and Saved are titles that seem just a bit elitist, as though there is a hierarchy in how God views those who love him.

As for my use of the term 'religous folks', it's what I use to refer to people, who need to exert how much better they know the bible and the Lord than I do. Yay for them! I don't argue the point with these types, because I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to think I had better insight than the next Christian as to the truest interpretation of the bible.

[Crackers Phinn]

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

I missed this the first time I read the post.

If you don't want to have bible study with him, then don't.

[mkh_77]

I agree with JCoily 100%.