Appearances matter but what about hidden things

[naughteegirl]

like tattoos and piercings. Actually I know that some ppl debate the importance of appearance at all (i.e how you dress, carry yourself) in your christian walk/life. However, assuming that appearance is important is there anything in the bible that would lead us to belive that tatoos and piercings are bad/ have negative conotation?
I ask because I personally dont think they matter a lot unless they say something particularly negative (ie. a tattoo saying something contrary to Gods word/ur beliefs). I know some ppl think they are bad/immoral, Im very curious if anyone has info in this .ie. why they are considered bad. Thanks!

[locabouthair]

there is a part of the Bible that says to not to have piercings or tattoos. It's in the old testament. i'll look for it and give you which part of the Bible it's in.

[Blossssom]

like tattoos and piercings. Actually I know that some ppl debate the importance of appearance at all (i.e how you dress, carry yourself) in your christian walk/life. However, assuming that appearance is important is there anything in the bible that would lead us to belive that tatoos and piercings are bad/ have negative conotation?
I ask because I personally dont think they matter a lot unless they say something particularly negative (ie. a tattoo saying something contrary to Gods word/ur beliefs). I know some ppl think they are bad/immoral, Im very curious if anyone has info in this .ie. why they are considered bad. Thanks!

Check this out, Naughtee...

http://www.crosswalk.com/family/parenting/1266329.html

[Sweet C]

Thanks for the link to the article, Blosssom. That was a very good read! I did not know that Starbucks has such a policy for their employees.

In the OT, they had strict rules against tattoos, which was none period according to Lev 19:28. In the NT, you don't find the definitive rule. But what you do find is a focus on the inward man first, and letting your outward man reflect this. As a Christian, your overall attire should reflect your rlp with Christ, and we are instructed not to do things that would jeopardize this. A classic example is in 1 Cor 11, where Paul instructs women on hair stating that long hair is a glory to a woman. When you examine the Corinthian culture at that time, you will see that women with short hair were most often prostitutes, so it would be best to reflect God's glory in your life by keeping your hair long.

In our culture today, we in general don't see tattoos as a good thing. With piercings the same thing applies although most people find it acceptable for a female to have a hole in each ear. It is most often looked at as a permanent mark of a foolish decision made typically in one's youth (though luckily with piercings, you can remove the ring). I have many friends who have gotten tattoes for whatever reason. Most of them even bought outfits that would allow them to show them off (which in general is why you have a tattoo/piercings, you want someone else to see it). Well, I can tell you that those outfits are long gone, and the only way you even know they have a tattoo is when it is poking out on certain attire, typically if they are wearing something fancy and it is very distracting.

So the best question to ask, is why as a Christian do you want a tattoo or piercing? The reasoning that it makes you a better witness is unacceptable. If you can't be a good witness w/o it, you won't be one with it. Of course if you have this before you came to Christ, there isn't anything you can do about it. God still loves you, but you will probably have to pay a little more detail to the clothing you chose to wear than some people.


More Scriptural References: 1 Cor 8 & 11, 1 Tit 2, 1 Pe 3:3

[Blossssom]

You're welcome. I've found the Crosswalk site very helpful :)

[beyondcute]

Okay I want to piggy back this thred. I have a very deep spirtitual feeling about a tattoo I want to get. Its not sacreligious and it will not be seen by anyone but me and my husband (when I marry). It is not for display but just for me. It will serve as a daily reminder of my walk with Christ. What do you think about this?

[newme2003]

You're welcome. I've found the Crosswalk site very helpful :)

I LOVE crosswalk.com. And I just discovered their forum last week. There are a lot of interesting topics to go through.

"The reasoning that it makes you a better witness is unacceptable. If you can't be a good witness w/o it, you won't be one with it." (by SweetC).

AMEN.

[secretdiamond]

there is a part of the Bible that says to not to have piercings or tattoos. It's in the old testament. i'll look for it and give you which part of the Bible it's in.

So then if this is true, it can't only be applied to men or extra piercings, it should also be applied to women who get it also. It's like just b/c it's more socially acceptable, it's more morally right. A rule should apply to everyone or no one at all.

Not to be judgmental or anything since I don't really know that rule, but just an observation & my quick 2 cents.

[rai]

Uggh, I just typed a long reply and I lost it. Basically, I was saying that I think we need to examine the motivation for the action. For example let's look at the verse that was given in the linked thread by Blossoom:

"This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father ... to keep oneself unstained by the world."
James 1:27


The author of the article suggests that "unstained" = tattoos and piercings, but I implore you to think a little bit more. I think one of the great things about the bible and many other great works is that it is up to the reader to interpret. What is exactly meant by unstained? To some, it can be ANYTHING that causes a person to deviate from his/her natural state (ex. perms, relaxers, sprayed tans, tattoos, makeup, etc). I mean how do we really know what makes one stained? Is it just something that some people in society may think is unprofessional (ex. piercings)?However, as I stated in my first sentence my thesis is that one must look at the motivating factor to the action to decide if something is unpure or makes one become "stained". For example, let's say Person A always feels that she has to wear tons of makeup because she feels unbeautiful without it. Is this not "staining" one's appearance? Let's say person B decides to get a tongue piercing so that he can participate in oral sex with various females or Person C always wears weaves because she doesn't like her hair and feels unsecure without it? To me all three of these actions were the result of "unpure" thoughts. However, let's say person D looses a lot of weight and decides to celebrate by getting a belly piercing for her new flat stomach, or person E decides to get a texturizer simply because she wants to try a new hair style....are those actions "stained"? To me they are not, because the reasoning behind them weren't... Like they say....it's the thought that counts.

[Sweet C]

"This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father ... to keep oneself unstained by the world."
James 1:27


The author of the article suggests that "unstained" = tattoos and piercings, but I implore you to think a little bit more. I think one of the great things about the bible and many other great works is that it is up to the reader to interpret. What is exactly meant by unstained? To some, it can be ANYTHING that causes a person to deviate from his/her natural state (ex. perms, relaxers, sprayed tans, tattoos, makeup, etc). I mean how do we really know what makes one stained? Is it just something that some people in society may think is unprofessional (ex. piercings)?However, as I stated in my first sentence my thesis is that one must look at the motivating factor to the action to decide if something is unpure or makes one become "stained". For example, let's say Person A always feels that she has to wear tons of makeup because she feels unbeautiful without it. Is this not "staining" one's appearance? Let's say person B decides to get a tongue piercing so that he can participate in oral sex with various females or Person C always wears weaves because she doesn't like her hair and feels unsecure without it? To me all three of these actions were the result of "unpure" thoughts. However, let's say person D looses a lot of weight and decides to celebrate by getting a belly piercing for her new flat stomach, or person E decides to get a texturizer simply because she wants to try a new hair style....are those actions "stained"? To me they are not, because the reasoning behind them weren't... Like they say....it's the thought that counts.

I don't think its about whether having a tatoo is "wrong" or not, is boils down to the fact that believer's should keep away from things that would closely associate you with the world. We are instructed to be in the world, but not of the world (John 15:19, Ro 12:2). So though we have many freedoms in Christ, we should not exercise those that will bring about division, confusion, or hurt our witness. No matter what our personal reason may be for having such things done. The author in the article just pointed out that overall, having tattoes and piercings are not looked at as a positive light, so why as Christians, do we want these things?

[rai]

I don't think its about whether having a tatoo is "wrong" or not, is boils down to the fact that believer's should keep away from things that would closely associate you with the world. We are instructed to be in the world, but not of the world (John 15:19, Ro 12:2). So though we have many freedoms in Christ, we should not exercise those that will bring about division, confusion, or hurt our witness. No matter what our personal reason may be for having such things done. The author in the article just pointed out that overall, having tattoes and piercings are not looked at as a positive light, so why as Christians, do we want these things?

But, who is to decide what is positive or not? I also think the author made a good point in regards to saying that in different generations the ideas,actions, etc have different meanings. I agree that 15 years ago, piercings were not viewed in a positive light, but can we still say the same in 2005. Before maybe all males that wore earrings were viewed in a negative light, but now men are wearing more earrings than me! I know professors that have earrings in their ears, I know computer programmers that wear earrings too. I think we need to separate what is considered a "positive light" versus what is considered "professional". To me they are not the same.

Also, you did bring out a good point. I'm curious now to what things, actions, thoughts, etc cause one to hurt their witness?

[secretdiamond]

there is a part of the Bible that says to not to have piercings or tattoos. It's in the old testament. i'll look for it and give you which part of the Bible it's in.

So then if this is true, it can't only be applied to men or extra piercings, it should also be applied to women who get it also. It's like just b/c it's more socially acceptable, it's more morally right. A rule should apply to everyone or no one at all.

Not to be judgmental or anything since I don't really know that rule, but just an observation & my quick 2 cents.

My question is then if it does say in the OT not to have piercings, why is it ok for Christian women to wear earrings? I'm not saying for women to stop wearing them, but according to what locabouthair is saying, shouldn't Christian women stop wearing them too if Christians are saying that it isn't okay for a man to have an earring or ppl in general to have body piercings?

[cminter]

Piercings/Tattoos are not wrong. There are men in the church who are powerful witnesses with tattoos. The idea of these expressions being wrong is a personal choice. These outward marks define who you are as a person. Yes, there are people who may judge you because you have a tattoo, but that will not stop you from being a witness. If you are being a witness in your everyday actions, a tattoo or piercing does not take away from what other observe within you. Your relationship with God is between you and God, only. So, do not feel condemed, because someone else does not approve of your expressive choice. Sometimes as Christians, we put ourselves in a box. Unforunately, God does live or reside in "our" box. He uses ALL of his children.

[Sweet C]

But, who is to decide what is positive or not? I also think the author made a good point in regards to saying that in different generations the ideas,actions, etc have different meanings. I agree that 15 years ago, piercings were not viewed in a positive light, but can we still say the same in 2005. Before maybe all males that wore earrings were viewed in a negative light, but now men are wearing more earrings than me! I know professors that have earrings in their ears, I know computer programmers that wear earrings too. I think we need to separate what is considered a "positive light" versus what is considered "professional". To me they are not the same.

Also, you did bring out a good point. I'm curious now to what things, actions, thoughts, etc cause one to hurt their witness?

You make some excellent points! Of course, what is positive is not necessarily what is considered professional, b/c what is considered professional depends on what the task is at hand (so what is professional for some who is a lifeguard is not the same for someone who is a layer). The overall reason why companies request a certain amount of professionalism for their employees is b/c professionalism promotes a positive work environment. So if we are children of God, we should want to promote a positive view of what it really means to be a Christian. If having a tattoo/piercing (and this is just a few things) can detract from this, then we need not having them.

The author was pointing out that tattoes/piercings have always been associated with paganism, so why are we as Christians openly embracing it. The author talked about a young lady that was a youth leader who went out and got a tongue piercing. Now, maybe its just where I am from, but whenever a man or woman has a tongue piercing a certain stigma about sexual acts go with it. Is it fair that this stigma exists, no, but since it does, why would you get one? I can guarantee you its not going to make your witnessing efforts any better.

I know that there are plenty of Christians that have tattoes/piercings, who are strong men and women of God, and that is awesome, but all I am saying is be careful. Sometimes we are quick to jump on something with no idea of the implications behind it, be it physical, mental, or spiritual.

Now as far as "hurting your witness", we can do this by not being balanced in our walk, and being too associated with the world. Christ said we are in the world, not of it, so its a lot of things big and small that could possibly hurt your witness. The thing we have to remember is that most people aren't going to just walk in Barnes and nobles and pick up a Bible and learn about Christ. Most of the time, they learn through us, the children of God, so we must always strive to put our best foot forward. And we have all done em, but we need to try and minimize em. I will admit I have to work on being on time, and not being on time hurts my witness. Why? I am a woman of true and living God, but yet can't get nowhere on time to save my life.
LOL.....but maybe thats me :look:

[BLESSED1]

Piercings/Tattoos are not wrong. There are men in the church who are powerful witnesses with tattoos. The idea of these expressions being wrong is a personal choice. These outward marks define who you are as a person. Yes, there are people who may judge you because you have a tattoo, but that will not stop you from being a witness. If you are being a witness in your everyday actions, a tattoo or piercing does not take away from what other observe within you. Your relationship with God is between you and God, only. So, do not feel condemed, because someone else does not approve of your expressive choice. Sometimes as Christians, we put ourselves in a box. Unforunately, God does live or reside in "our" box. He uses ALL of his children.

thanks for saying that. I was about to feel bad for the 7yr old tattoo I have of my dead daughter's name, but now I feel better.

[secretdiamond]

You make some excellent points! Of course, what is positive is not necessarily what is considered professional, b/c what is considered professional depends on what the task is at hand (so what is professional for some who is a lifeguard is not the same for someone who is a layer). The overall reason why companies request a certain amount of professionalism for their employees is b/c professionalism promotes a positive work environment. So if we are children of God, we should want to promote a positive view of what it really means to be a Christian. If having a tattoo/piercing (and this is just a few things) can detract from this, then we need not having them.

The author was pointing out that tattoes/piercings have always been associated with paganism, so why are we as Christians openly embracing it. The author talked about a young lady that was a youth leader who went out and got a tongue piercing. Now, maybe its just where I am from, but whenever a man or woman has a tongue piercing a certain stigma about sexual acts go with it. Is it fair that this stigma exists, no, but since it does, why would you get one? I can guarantee you its not going to make your witnessing efforts any better.

I know that there are plenty of Christians that have tattoes/piercings, who are strong men and women of God, and that is awesome, but all I am saying is be careful. Sometimes we are quick to jump on something with no idea of the implications behind it, be it physical, mental, or spiritual.

Now as far as "hurting your witness", we can do this by not being balanced in our walk, and being too associated with the world. Christ said we are in the world, not of it, so its a lot of things big and small that could possibly hurt your witness. The thing we have to remember is that most people aren't going to just walk in Barnes and nobles and pick up a Bible and learn about Christ. Most of the time, they learn through us, the children of God, so we must always strive to put our best foot forward. And we have all done em, but we need to try and minimize em. I will admit I have to work on being on time, and not being on time hurts my witness. Why? I am a woman of true and living God, but yet can't get nowhere on time to save my life.
LOL.....but maybe thats me :look:

I know your response wasn't to me & I fully understand what you are saying, but try to see what I'm trying to say please. My question: Do you wear earrings? If yes, then your ears are probably pierced. Regardless of where on your body it is, a piercing is a piercing is a piercing. That's what I'm saying. Therefore, according to what you said above, you are 'of the world' b/c most women Christian or not have pierced ears. Now were they born with pierced ears? No. They were added-- body modifications. Now am I judging or saying it is wrong? No. But, I am just pointing out that a rule should not be applied to what we think is inappropriate b/c we think it's taboo and things that we do are okay b/c we do them and it's socially acceptable. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I feel like the fact that most women have some sort of a piercing, albeit just earrings, it is being overlooked.

[Sweet C]

I know your response wasn't to me & I fully understand what you are saying, but try to see what I'm trying to say please. My question: Do you wear earrings? If yes, then your ears are probably pierced. Regardless of where on your body it is, a piercing is a piercing is a piercing. That's what I'm saying. Therefore, according to what you said above, you are 'of the world' b/c most women Christian or not have pierced ears. Now were they born with pierced ears? No. They were added-- body modifications. Now am I judging or saying it is wrong? No. But, I am just pointing out that a rule should not be applied to what we think is inappropriate b/c we think it's taboo and things that we do are okay b/c we do them and it's socially acceptable. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I feel like the fact that most women have some sort of a piercing, albeit just earrings, it is being overlooked.

I get where you are going at but I am not saying its a rule. I'm saying consider the action and weigh it first. If you have a tattoes or piercings up to the side of your head, it makes no difference to me. Yes I do have pierced ears, and have had them since not to long after birth, and would have no problem taking them out if it would hurt my witness. The main issue I have is when Christians get tattoes/piercings, and then say they got em b/c it makes me a better witness (let's be real, no it doesn't). What I was bringing up was that certain things can shed a certain light on us be it negative or positive, and if you have the foreknowledge as a believer to know that it can compromise your witness be it a tattoo, piercing, t-shirt, armband, why do it?

[secretdiamond]

I get where you're coming from. :yep:

[Hair4Care]

well, my worship leader worships with her tongue pierce...