The Never-ending Debate: Cain's Wife...

[DeltaQT]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He also created the moon and the stars—all living things-including man. Man was alone and needed companionship, so God created woman. He called the man Adam, and the man called woman Eve. These creations lived upon the face of the earth and walked with God in the quiet of the day. The man, Adam, knew his wife, Eve, and Eve conceived and gave birth to twins, Cain and Abel. Cain took his brother's life, went off to a far land, and took a wife.(Genesis 4:17). Many believe in the creation story, yet, many are puzzled by the creation story. If, in the beginning, God created two people and these two people had two children, where did Cain's wife come from?

And..if she was his sister, why was she in a far land?? Why wasn't she already living with the family ???

Your thoughts?

[ReaLuvsAOxymoron]

I personally think they are far off family members. People in those days lived hundreds of years...long enough to have children who have children who have children and marry and have more children on and on and on and the Bible never said that those were Adam and Eve's only children...

[ms_kenesha]

EXACTLY! There are three schools of thought, one is that she was Cain's sister and for some reason she had migrated when she was older somewhere else after the fall of Adam & Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden.

Second, there is talk in apocrypha that Adam had a first wife named Lilith and she was sent away because she would not submit. *hence, Lilith Fair* She may have conceived a child w/ Adam before her banishment.

Third, the Bible is full of unsubstantiated myths.

[Honeyhips]

what is aporcrypha and lilith fair?

[geminilive]

aporcrypha is the study of the missing books of the bible, The canonization of the bible by order of King James is an edited version of "the bible"
Lillith Fair is/was an annual all female concert tour started by Sarah McLachlan in the late 90's featuring artists such as the Indigo Girls, Lauryn Hill, Paula Cole, Sheryl Crow,Tracy Chapman (at various points)

[Isis]

There is also the school of thought that the Earth was occupied when Adam and Eve were created. So Cain could go to just about any far away land and find a woman who was not his sister.

I'v learned that indigenous people of every continent (including this one) have their own legends and experiences of ancestors in their country passed down of the biblical Flood.

[gn1g]

It didn't say they were the only people, they are just the ones that the bible mentions.

[sbg4evr]

Read below




Where did Cain get his wife?
Genesis 4:17



(Gen. 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17)) - "Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17And Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son," (NASB).
We see in the Bible in Genesis 3 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_3.htm#1) where Adam and Eve were cursed and sent out of the Garden of Eden. In Genesis 4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#1 A), Cain kills Abel. In Genesis 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17) above we see that Cain had relations with his wife. Where did he get his wife? The answer is simple. Cain married one of his sisters.
Genesis 5:4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_5.htm#1) says, "Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters." We see that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The genetic lineage of Adam and Eve was perfect so marrying a sister wasn't going to cause birth defects. It wasn't until much later, during the time of Moses, that incest was forbidden as the genetic pool became less and less able to stand interbreeding. "‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD," (Lev. 18:6 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Lev/Lev_18.htm#1)).
http://www.carm.org/diff/Gen4_17.htm

[Isis]

Read below






Where did Cain get his wife?
Genesis 4:17


(Gen. 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17)) - "Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17And Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son," (NASB).
We see in the Bible in Genesis 3 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_3.htm#1) where Adam and Eve were cursed and sent out of the Garden of Eden. In Genesis 4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#1 A), Cain kills Abel. In Genesis 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17) above we see that Cain had relations with his wife. Where did he get his wife? The answer is simple. Cain married one of his sisters.
Genesis 5:4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_5.htm#1) says, "Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters." We see that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The genetic lineage of Adam and Eve was perfect so marrying a sister wasn't going to cause birth defects. It wasn't until much later, during the time of Moses, that incest was forbidden as the genetic pool became less and less able to stand interbreeding. "‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD," (Lev. 18:6 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Lev/Lev_18.htm#1)).
http://www.carm.org/diff/Gen4_17.htmI've seen, read and heard various explanations like this one too. I've had discussions about this in church and incest seems like a plausible answer. Some Christian religions do not accept this theory of incest though. I've studied much on ancient history and there are many other theories.

[JuJuBoo]

Read below




Where did Cain get his wife?
Genesis 4:17



(Gen. 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17)) - "Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17And Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son," (NASB).
We see in the Bible in Genesis 3 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_3.htm#1) where Adam and Eve were cursed and sent out of the Garden of Eden. In Genesis 4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#1 A), Cain kills Abel. In Genesis 4:17 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_4.htm#17) above we see that Cain had relations with his wife. Where did he get his wife? The answer is simple. Cain married one of his sisters.
Genesis 5:4 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Gen/Gen_5.htm#1) says, "Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters." We see that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The genetic lineage of Adam and Eve was perfect so marrying a sister wasn't going to cause birth defects. It wasn't until much later, during the time of Moses, that incest was forbidden as the genetic pool became less and less able to stand interbreeding. "‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD," (Lev. 18:6 (http://www.carm.org/kjv/Lev/Lev_18.htm#1)).
http://www.carm.org/diff/Gen4_17.htm

EXACTLY Glad I didn't have to write a post. :grin

[JuJuBoo]

I personally think they are far off family members. People in those days lived hundreds of years...long enough to have children who have children who have children and marry and have more children on and on and on and the Bible never said that those were Adam and Eve's only children...

Agree completely. Adam and Eve probably had hundreds of children. (Adam lived to be 930.) Actually, the Bible mentions that Adam continued to have children (sons and daughters) after 800 years old. Specifically named was Seth, who Adam had at 130 years old. Adam and Eve were created completely perfect, so inbreeding wouldn't have been an issue until much later.

For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.

[Honeyhips]

Agree completely. Adam and Eve probably had hundreds of children. (Adam lived to be 930.) Actually, the Bible mentions that Adam continued to have children (sons and daughters) after 800 years old. Specifically named was Seth, who Adam had at 130 years old. Adam and Eve were created completely perfect, so inbreeding wouldn't have been an issue until much later.

For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.post it! post it! I love stuff like this.

I thought that Lillith Fair was the concert, but I didn't know how that related to this.

[Queenie]

He married his sister.

Abraham and Sarah were half brother & sister. There are also other cases of this in the Bible, but there names allude me at the moment.

[Sweet C]

yes, Cain did marry one of his sisters, and sbg4ever gave the verse One thing that is interesting is that we often assume that Cain initially went far, which is not necessarily the case. The bible says he left the presense of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden (Gen 4:16). We know that his parents (Adam and Eve) left the garden, but we don't exactly know where they settled and we know that Cain left God's presence, but how far is that truly.

As far as the story with Lilith goes, one of my friends told me about this in undergrad. This is not from the Apocryphal books, but is actually a Jewish fable. It tells the story about a woman formed from the ground who wouldn't submit to Adam (and thus this is where women get their supposed dark side from),and was banished from Eden. This makes no sense biblically, b/c in order to be a woman or "wombed man", she must have been taken out of man (Gen 2:23), but its a fable probably used to justify why men must "take charge" of their women.

[NewYorkgyrl]

For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.[/QUOTE]


Where can you find this information?

[ms_kenesha]

Lilith (not a "fable"):

In an effort to explain inconsistencies in the Old Testament, there developed in Jewish literature a complex interpretive system called the midrash which attempts to reconcile biblical contradictions and bring new meaning to the scriptural text.

Employing both a philological method and often an ingenious imagination, midrashic writings, which reached their height in the 2nd century CE, influenced later Christian interpretations of the Bible. Inconsistencies in the story of Genesis, especially the two separate accounts of creation, received particular attention. Later, beginning in the 13th century CE, such questions were also taken up in Jewish mystical literature known as the Kabbalah.

According to midrashic literature, Adam's first wife was not Eve but a woman named Lilith, who was created in the first Genesis account. Only when Lilith rebelled and abandoned Adam did God create Eve, in the second account, as a replacement. In an important 13th century Kabbalah text, the Sefer ha-Zohar ("The Book of Splendour") written by the Spaniard Moses de Leon (c. 1240-1305), it is explained that:


At the same time Jehovah created Adam, he created a woman, Lilith, who like Adam was taken from the earth. She was given to Adam as his wife. But there was a dispute between them about a matter that when it came before the judges had to be discussed behind closed doors. She spoke the unspeakable name of Jehovah and vanished.
In the Alpha Betha of Ben Sira (Alphabetum Siracidis, or Sepher Ben Sira), an anonymous collection of midrashic proverbs probably compiled in the 11th century C.E., it is explained more explicitly that the conflict arose because Adam, as a way of asserting his authority over Lilith, insisted that she lie beneath him during sexual intercourse (23 A-B). Lilith, however, considering herself to be Adam's equal, refused, and after pronouncing the Ineffable Name (i.e. the magic name of God) flew off into the air.

Adam, distraught and no doubt also angered by her insolent behaviour, wanted her back. On Adam's request, God sent three angels, named Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, who found her in the Red Sea. Despite the threat from the three angels that if she didn't return to Adam one hundred of her sons would die every day, she refused, claiming that she was created expressly to harm newborn infants. However, she did swear that she would not harm any infant wearing an amulet with the images and/or names of the three angels on it.

At this point, the legend of Lilith as the "first Eve" merges with the earlier legend of Sumero-Babylonian origin, dating from around 3,500 BCE, of Lilith as a winged female demon who kills infants and endangers women in childbirth. In this role, she was one of several mazakim or "harmful spirits" known from incantation formulas preserved in Assyrian, Hebrew, and Canaanite inscriptions intended to protect against them. As a female demon, she is closely related to Lamashtu whose evilness included killing children, drinking the blood of men, and eating their flesh. Lamashtu also caused pregnant women to miscarry, disturbed sleep and brought nightmares.

[AnnDriena_]

Close relatives are mother, brother, sister. Not cousin. The bible does not have inconsistencies. Just because we can't wrap our minds around Gods perfect knowledge WE then make up excuses to explain away his perfect word. The bible gives us all we NEED to know to live our lives but not everything about what GOD has done. At least not plainly. To understand the bible you need to know and seek the will of GOD. Those who love him do seek him those who don't look at the bible from a natural viewpoint and not with an open mind and they will never understand him that way so they explain away things with their own literature and theories. Man loves to do this because we are so full of ourselves with our own knowledge and love to place it above GOD's and thumb our noses at him like "Ha, Ha we are so smart we don't need your stinkin' bible to tell us what to do". Man has been like this since the beginning of time and most will continue to be even in the end times as GOD literally rips away at this earth.
I love knowledge and it's pursuits but sometimes man just scares me with all the knowledge he already has. Yes it's great with all the medical advancements and how we can help people live longer but that's not necessarily a good thing (there is a season for everything even death and now our economy will be bogged down with the larger number of people living longer and we honestly don't know how we'll support them now). but even with all the medical advancements man shows his dark side. We can know blow our world to bits with our advanced weaponry. I see what man does with knowledge so it does scare me when he starts thumbing his nose at GOD like he knows so much more. Look at what we do with that knowledge.

[slwe415]

EXACTLY Glad I didn't have to write a post. :grin
I think that this has to be the answer because if I am not mistaken, I do believe that the Bible says that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve... I'm going to see what I can find on this...

[dreemssold]

The genetic lineage of Adam and Eve was perfect so marrying a sister wasn't going to cause birth defects.

Que? Que?

What does that MEAN?

[ms_kenesha]

Please post this info.


For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.

[GodMadeMePretty]

We all look at the Bible now and see the laws that God gave to Moses and automatically, Genesis' account of Cain and his wife and who she had to be starts to look incredibly horrible to us. But, until God said it was wrong, it wasn't wrong.

Like someone said earlier, the blood line was pure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Cain marrying his sister. As a matter of fact, Abel and Seth and the others had to marry someone too. Who did they marry? Again, the blood line was pure. Once the earth was populated, then and only then, was it unnecessary for close relatives to marry. Everybody harps on Cain marrying his sister, but the fact remains that most likely, the sisters and brothers married each other. How else was the earth going to be populated?

I don't find it to be unnatural when you look at God's purpose and plan. When we look at things with our fallible, imperfect human understanding, we will always fall short and focus on something that is really unimportant.

OT: Cain and Abel were NOT twins as I saw one poster comment. Not that it matters, except for accuracy's sake.

[slwe415]

Close relatives are mother, brother, sister. Not cousin. The bible does not have inconsistencies. Just because we can't wrap our minds around Gods perfect knowledge WE then make up excuses to explain away his perfect word. The bible gives us all we NEED to know to live our lives but not everything about what GOD has done. At least not plainly. To understand the bible you need to know and seek the will of GOD. Those who love him do seek him those who don't look at the bible from a natural viewpoint and not with an open mind and they will never understand him that way so they explain away things with their own literature and theories. Man loves to do this because we are so full of ourselves with our own knowledge and love to place it above GOD's and thumb our noses at him like "Ha, Ha we are so smart we don't need your stinkin' bible to tell us what to do". Man has been like this since the beginning of time and most will continue to be even in the end times as GOD literally rips away at this earth.
I love knowledge and it's pursuits but sometimes man just scares me with all the knowledge he already has. Yes it's great with all the medical advancements and how we can help people live longer but that's not necessarily a good thing (there is a season for everything even death and now our economy will be bogged down with the larger number of people living longer and we honestly don't know how we'll support them now). but even with all the medical advancements man shows his dark side. We can know blow our world to bits with our advanced weaponry. I see what man does with knowledge so it does scare me when he starts thumbing his nose at GOD like he knows so much more. Look at what we do with that knowledge.

You have a point. The scriptures do tell us that Gods thoughts are not our thoughts, neither are our ways His ways... I think that it is human nature to try to understand things of the Bible, and God instructs us in Jer 33:3 to call unto Him, and Him will answer, and show us great and mighty things that we know not. I believe that God loves for His children to get deeper into His word to try to study and know more about Him and His ways.

[ms_kenesha]

I don't think this is the case, in this discussion at least.

Also, I think it's funny that so many people base so much on one slim HIGHLY edited version of their theology, the King James Bible is not all that was written in the history of Judeo-Christian theology so all that base everything on this one slim volume are missing out on the WHOLE picture.

Now someone will insert how the Bible is perfect.

Close relatives are mother, brother, sister. Not cousin. The bible does not have inconsistencies. Just because we can't wrap our minds around Gods perfect knowledge WE then make up excuses to explain away his perfect word. The bible gives us all we NEED to know to live our lives but not everything about what GOD has done. At least not plainly. To understand the bible you need to know and seek the will of GOD. Those who love him do seek him those who don't look at the bible from a natural viewpoint and not with an open mind and they will never understand him that way so they explain away things with their own literature and theories. Man loves to do this because we are so full of ourselves with our own knowledge and love to place it above GOD's and thumb our noses at him like "Ha, Ha we are so smart we don't need your stinkin' bible to tell us what to do". Man has been like this since the beginning of time and most will continue to be even in the end times as GOD literally rips away at this earth.
I love knowledge and it's pursuits but sometimes man just scares me with all the knowledge he already has. Yes it's great with all the medical advancements and how we can help people live longer but that's not necessarily a good thing (there is a season for everything even death and now our economy will be bogged down with the larger number of people living longer and we honestly don't know how we'll support them now). but even with all the medical advancements man shows his dark side. We can know blow our world to bits with our advanced weaponry. I see what man does with knowledge so it does scare me when he starts thumbing his nose at GOD like he knows so much more. Look at what we do with that knowledge.

[slwe415]

We all look at the Bible now and see the laws that God gave to Moses and automatically, Genesis' account of Cain and his wife and who she had to be starts to look incredibly horrible to us. But, until God said it was wrong, it wasn't wrong.

Like someone said earlier, the blood line was pure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Cain marrying his sister. As a matter of fact, Abel and Seth and the others had to marry someone too. Who did they marry? Again, the blood line was pure. Once the earth was populated, then and only then, was it unnecessary for close relatives to marry. Everybody harps on Cain marrying his sister, but the fact remains that most likely, the sisters and brothers married each other. How else was the earth going to be populated?

I don't find it to be unnatural when you look at God's purpose and plan. When we look at things with our fallible, imperfect human understanding, we will always fall short and focus on something that is really unimportant.

OT: Cain and Abel were NOT twins as I saw one poster comment. Not that it matters, except for accuracy's sake.

:D :D We are all brothers and sisters in Christ anyway! :D :D

[cece22]

I think that this has to be the answer because if I am not mistaken, I do believe that the Bible says that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve... I'm going to see what I can find on this...
Genesis 1:20 "After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living. "

Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—." This one man meaning Adam.

[kombov_dymond]

Great Thread..interesting!

[slwe415]

Genesis 1:20 "After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living. "

Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—." This one man meaning Adam.

Thanks cece22! I couldn't remember the exact scriptures at that moment... Thanks for posting them for me.

[BklynHeart]

You gals are pouring the knowledge today!:) One thing I love about the paster of the church I attend is that he stresses people to study the Bible literally, figuratively, and symbolically. Its perfectly fine to question and seek the truth. In doing so, you learn that the Bible IS the truth! And it teaches you not to take anything at face value. How many of us know people that quote Bible passages all day, yet are applying it to the wrong situations and circumstances? And if you challenge them they just say " 'cause its in the Bible".

[slwe415]

You gals are pouring the knowledge today!:) One thing I love about the paster of the church I attend is that he stresses people to study the Bible literally, figuratively, and symbolically. Its perfectly fine to question and seek the truth. In doing so, you learn that the Bible IS the truth! And it teaches you not to take anything at face value. How many of us know people that quote Bible passages all day, yet are applying it to the wrong situations and circumstances? And if you challenge them they just say " 'cause its in the Bible".
:) :) :) :) :)

[FlowerHair]

To answer this question one must first believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I don't believe that everything is to be interpreted literally - I believe in the symbolical way of interpreting things. Maybe Adam and Eve are two symbols for the first people and their children are symbols for what they created?

[GodMadeMePretty]

To answer this question one must first believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I don't believe that everything is to be interpreted literally - I believe in the symbolical way of interpreting things. Maybe Adam and Eve are two symbols for the first people and their children are symbols for what they created?

LOL! It took me a minute before I realized what you were saying. It's like one of my Christian friends was talking about "aliens" and us having this superiority complex to think that we're the only humans that God created in the whole universe.

I hear what you're saying. But I do believe that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all who occupy this earth today.

Back to the other topic: After all this haggling over who Cain married, the bottom line is that everybody was wiped out in the flood except Noah and his 3 sons and their wives. So, now can we move on to who their children married? Are marrying cousins somehow more palatable than marrying sisters and brothers even though the initial people, Adam and Eve, are the ancestors of them too? :lachen:

[Isis]

For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.
Where can you find this information?I've learned that the firmament, the cloud cover which covered this entire planet at that time, provided even, temperate weather throughout the year, probably tropical-like. It kept moisture in and protected humans from direct ultraviolet rays from the sun. The thymus glands were much larger that they are now, which is in part responsible for aging. The water from the Flood came from the firmament and since then, the lifespan of humans began to decrease.

[Sweet C]

Hmm...that is a good question. I guess if you are continuing with the theory of purity of genealogy and less suspectiblity of diseases, then yes your cousin would be a bit better than your sibling. However Abraham married his sister, though she was his half sister (Gen 20:12), but this is later denounced in the Law (Lev 18:9). Marrying cousins seems to be a bit better to me since this does in occur in the OT after the law was established (Law-Lev 18 ;Example-Nu 36:11).

Now this brings me to another question: Lot's daughters (Genesis 19). They had sexual relations with their father and had 2 sons by him which were the originators of the Moabites and the Ammonites. Now here is the question. We know that marriage occured between siblings and cousins in the OT before the law was established which forbids sexual relations with close relatives. Now in the case of Lot's daughters, were they in error since their was no written law established at that time?

[BklynHeart]

To answer this question one must first believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I don't believe that everything is to be interpreted literally - I believe in the symbolical way of interpreting things. Maybe Adam and Eve are two symbols for the first people and their children are symbols for what they created?
Good point! :)

[AnnDriena_]

Hmm...that is a good question. I guess if you are continuing with the theory of purity of genealogy and less suspectiblity of diseases, then yes your cousin would be a bit better than your sibling. However Abraham married his sister, though she was his half sister (Gen 20:12), but this is later denounced in the Law (Lev 18:9). Marrying cousins seems to be a bit better to me since this does in occur in the OT after the law was established (Law-Lev 18 ;Example-Nu 36:11).

Now this brings me to another question: Lot's daughters (Genesis 19). They had sexual relations with their father and had 2 sons by him which were the originators of the Moabites and the Ammonites. Now here is the question. We know that marriage occured between siblings and cousins in the OT before the law was established which forbids sexual relations with close relatives. Now in the case of Lot's daughters, were they in error since their was no written law established at that time?

people back then had supernatural signs and wonders from God all the time so they had his power right in their faces and Lots daughters should've gone to GOD but they took matters in their own hands.Law or not they were just nasty:lachen: .

[RushGirl]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He also created the moon and the stars—all living things-including man. Man was alone and needed companionship, so God created woman. He called the man Adam, and the man called woman Eve. These creations lived upon the face of the earth and walked with God in the quiet of the day. The man, Adam, knew his wife, Eve, and Eve conceived and gave birth to twins, Cain and Abel. Cain took his brother's life, went off to a far land, and took a wife.(Genesis 4:17). Many believe in the creation story, yet, many are puzzled by the creation story. If, in the beginning, God created two people and these two people had two children, where did Cain's wife come from?

And..if she was his sister, why was she in a far land?? Why wasn't she already living with the family ???

Your thoughts?okay. I have a question.. I'm not religious AT ALL!!!!!...but isn't the Adam & Eve story in the Old Testament.. if so, the Old Testament is a story..it's not real... I had to take religion in college..it was a requirement..and the Old Testament is a story..in fact I know quite a few people who have been told the same thing by Catholic Priests..

[JuJuBoo]

okay. I have a question.. I'm not religious AT ALL!!!!!...but isn't the Adam & Eve story in the Old Testament.. if so, the Old Testament is a story..it's not real... I had to take religion in college..it was a requirement..and the Old Testament is a story..in fact I know quite a few people who have been told the same thing by Catholic Priests..

The Old Testement isn't just a story. It's not a story at all. It's a historical document and has been used as a FACTUAL historical document. Accurate dates, geology, theology, and even geneology is drawn from the Old Testement on a daily basis by historians. In fact, it's one of the most, if not the most reliable historical document to date.

[mermaid]

EXACTLY! Second, there is talk in apocrypha that Adam had a first wife named Lilith and she was sent away because she would not submit. *hence, Lilith Fair* She may have conceived a child w/ Adam before her banishment.
That was my thoughts always on the subject- Lilith was of the Jinn, I believe. (The jinn are NOT fallen angels. They were created from a smokeless flame of fire. The first recorded jinn to be disobedient is Iblis. Disbelieving, disobedient jinn and humans are known as shayateen (satans). - Quote from the Quran and Sunnah.

[JuJuBoo]

I've learned that the firmament, the cloud cover which covered this entire planet at that time, provided even, temperate weather throughout the year, probably tropical-like. It kept moisture in and protected humans from direct ultraviolet rays from the sun. The thymus glands were much larger that they are now, which is in part responsible for aging. The water from the Flood came from the firmament and since then, the lifespan of humans began to decrease.

oy...Thank you Isis. I'm too slow to respond.


yes this is what I'm referring to. This might be a long post. Okay...

2 Peter 3:5-7*(New International Version)

5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
------


The Bible says that the earth was formed "out" of water, which could be many things. Some think (and there's evidence for) there being some kind of layer of water or mist that surrounded the earth when God created it. This layer of water would have caused a green house effect. (Think of an EXTREME tropical environment, and that's the green house effect.) Basically, in such conditions, the amount of oxogen in the air would be TWICE of that today. So not only would this cause plants and animals to be MUCH BIGGER, but it would block ultra violet rays (causing things to age a WHOLE lot slower.)

In these conditions man would have been able to run MILES without getting winded...yes crazy, and since the sun was blocked and the air was oxegen saturated, healing time would be dramatically sped up. With these conditions it would be easy for man to live HUNDREDS of years old, and other organisms as well. Some think that dinosaurs are simply lizards that lived to be 900 years old.

So what's happened to the firmament? Well...it fell when God judged the earth with the Flood.

Okay....so the firmament fell during the Flood, but that couldn't have POSSIBLY flooded the ENTIRE earth....


Genesis 1:2*(New International Version)

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Psalm 136:5-6
"who by his understanding made the heavens,

His love endures forever.

who spread out the earth upon the waters,

His love endures forever.

Genesis 7:11-12

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

The Bible also talks about the earth being spread upon the waters, or the actuall crust being set on water.

There's geologic evidence of there being big holds of water underneath the earth's crust thousands of years ago. It's not there anymore because during the flood, the "springs of the great deep burst" open. We realize that it could not have JUST rained in order to flood the entire earth, so this makes sense. Many believe the fault lines that lay on our ocean floors is where the surface cracked open and the "springs of the deep" bursts open, flooding the earth. It's a lot more probable than the plate techtonics theory. (Even TODAY when drilling for oil, it's been known to come across WATER, and lot's of it, deep into the earth's crust.)

A lot of people ask why God chose a flood to destroy the earth....Easy...It's leaves EVIDENCE: Fossils, erosion, the Grand Canyon, caverns...While evolutions look at that and say that millions of years created it...many look at it, and say a great flood created it in a matter of days.....If not hours.


Anyway, I'll continue later. I'm getting tired. Or questions, it's easier to cover that way... :grin:

[RushGirl]

The Old Testement isn't just a story. It's not a story at all. It's a historical document and has been used as a FACTUAL historical document. Accurate dates, geology, theology, and even geneology is drawn from the Old Testement on a daily basis by historians. In fact, it's one of the most, if not the most reliable historical document to date.That's not was I was told and many others.. in fact, my husband even had a priest for a teacher when he was in high school and the priest's exact words were that the Old Testament was "bull#hit".. and this was a priest who later went to Rome for some kind of important religious thing..

If that is suppose to be the most reliable historical document to date.. does it mention anything about Big Bang or Evolution or life on other planets?

[fine_beauty]

LOL! It took me a minute before I realized what you were saying. It's like one of my Christian friends was talking about "aliens" and us having this superiority complex to think that we're the only humans that God created in the whole universe.

I hear what you're saying. But I do believe that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all who occupy this earth today.

Back to the other topic: After all this haggling over who Cain married, the bottom line is that everybody was wiped out in the flood except Noah and his 3 sons and their wives. So, now can we move on to who their children married? Are marrying cousins somehow more palatable than marrying sisters and brothers even though the initial people, Adam and Eve, are the ancestors of them too? :lachen:

The exact reason, Mathew decided to emphasize the geneology of Jesus. If we dispute or disbelieve the one man, one woman creation then there is or was no need for the incarnation, passion, death and resurrection of Christ. He had to come to fulfil God's promise " I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel." Gen 3:15
Also see Rev 12:5 with emphasis on 17 "Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus."

I'm no theologist but I believe that the Word of God is true and if there are any inconsistencies, they are due to our interpretations, remember that we are dealing with translations from various languages. Those who speak the language of those times are actually the chaldeans of Iraq (you can find info about them online by searching for the chaldean church) and Jesus is the poor greek translation of the aramaic word, Yeshua.

The bottom line is that each man strive to keep the faith till anytime the master returns. All these understandings will not in my opinion affect who makes it to the throne of heaven or who doesn't.

[Armyqt]

oy...Thank you Isis. I'm too slow to respond.


yes this is what I'm referring to. This might be a long post. Okay...

2 Peter 3:5-7*(New International Version)

5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
------


The Bible says that the earth was formed "out" of water, which could be many things. Some think (and there's evidence for) there being some kind of layer of water or mist that surrounded the earth when God created it. This layer of water would have caused a green house effect. (Think of an EXTREME tropical environment, and that's the green house effect.) Basically, in such conditions, the amount of oxogen in the air would be TWICE of that today. So not only would this cause plants and animals to be MUCH BIGGER, but it would block ultra violet rays (causing things to age a WHOLE lot slower.)

In these conditions man would have been able to run MILES without getting winded...yes crazy, and since the sun was blocked and the air was oxegen saturated, healing time would be dramatically sped up. With these conditions it would be easy for man to live HUNDREDS of years old, and other organisms as well. Some think that dinosaurs are simply lizards that lived to be 900 years old.

So what's happened to the firmament? Well...it fell when God judged the earth with the Flood.

Okay....so the firmament fell during the Flood, but that couldn't have POSSIBLY flooded the ENTIRE earth....


Genesis 1:2*(New International Version)

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Psalm 136:5-6
"who by his understanding made the heavens,

His love endures forever.

who spread out the earth upon the waters,

His love endures forever.

Genesis 7:11-12

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

The Bible also talks about the earth being spread upon the waters, or the actuall crust being set on water.

There's geologic evidence of there being big holds of water underneath the earth's crust thousands of years ago. It's not there anymore because during the flood, the "springs of the great deep burst" open. We realize that it could not have JUST rained in order to flood the entire earth, so this makes sense. Many believe the fault lines that lay on our ocean floors is where the surface cracked open and the "springs of the deep" bursts open, flooding the earth. It's a lot more probable than the plate techtonics theory. (Even TODAY when drilling for oil, it's been known to come across WATER, and lot's of it, deep into the earth's crust.)

A lot of people ask why God chose a flood to destroy the earth....Easy...It's leaves EVIDENCE: Fossils, erosion, the Grand Canyon, caverns...While evolutions look at that and say that millions of years created it...many look at it, and say a great flood created it in a matter of days.....If not hours.


Anyway, I'll continue later. I'm getting tired. Or questions, it's easier to cover that way... :grin:
WOW!! What a great post. :up: This whole thread is very interesting. :) :)

[Blossssom]

Third, the Bible is full of unsubstantiated myths.[/QUOTE]

LOL!

That's my guess too! :)

[Blossssom]

I've seen, read and heard various explanations like this one too. I've had discussions about this in church and incest seems like a plausible answer. Some Christian religions do not accept this theory of incest though. I've studied much on ancient history and there are many other theories.

Whether they accept it or not, incest was almost commonplace in the Bible.

What about the old guy who had sex with his daughters while drunk?

And what about Ammon, a son of King David, raping his own sister?

[JuJuBoo]

If that is suppose to be the most reliable historical document to date.. does it mention anything about Big Bang or Evolution or life on other planets?

no, the Bible says NOTHING about the Big Bang, Evolution, or aliens. Hence, why I believe all of that is 100% bogus. There's a WHOLE lot more evidence of a Creator, than no creator and every living organism (and non living :rolleyes:...ridiculous) evolving from one source.

It's like I said before. Some look at living things and say "Wow...it's so simular...Must be a common ancestor." I, and others, look at it and say "Wow...it's brilliant...simular design....There must be a common CREATOR."

[JuJuBoo]

And what about Ammon, a son of King David, raping his own sister?

Well THAT was wrong! :lol: