Would you???

[Brownchiq]

***Please dont beat me up please ladies as I am trying to be candid and open up something that is very prevalent in competitive bodybuilding world***
To start off I am a completely natural athlete but please do not confuse this to mean that I have a slant in either direction. To each his own.

A few days ago, another nameless competitor asked me what was I taking to help "dry me out" before I hit the stage. I named her a few over the counter and natural diuretics. She seemed surprised and voluntarily stated that she used a substance "NOT FOUND IN STORES". In addition, she confessed she was not a natural athlete and she uses performance enhancers.
She went on to say "In order to place top 5 in ANY National NPC show, you will need it":ohwell:
I always thought that likes of Alicia Harris, Adela Garcia, Jenny Hendershott, Monica Brant and Jenny Lynn, relied on the hardwork to achieve those superior physiques.
Now I know I am GENETICALLY small but I would hope that I could put on size without having to go this route.
I know there is mixed research about it all and it is prescribed regularly, but man how far is one willing to go???

I turn this question over to you, if you were presented with the option to take your physique, weight loss goals etc to the next level with a low dose of performance enhancers with no side effects, would you do it for a short 8 week span?

[tocktick]

No, I wouldn't take anything. I have immense respect for natural figure athletes. I had my bubble burst a few weeks ago that many figure athletes, like the girls in Oxygen and other athletes are not natural and I found it a shame. When I hear an athlete is not "clean", I'm just not as impressed with their physique. It's like, "of course you can shed all that body fat doing cardio 12x per week whilst lifting and still retain muscle mass" :rolleyes:. It's just like hearing someone lost 80lbs using drugs over doing it the healthier way.

Does what that lady claim hold some truth? Honestly, I cannot even say for sure because I'm not in the industry. I know some of these more well-known athletes do use drugs though. Furthermore, from reading around the web it's clear that what those judges look for is hardly consistent - sometimes they want a harder look, some prefer a softer look and for others it's somewhere in the middle. If you don't place top 5 in an NPC comp, the reason might not even be because you're not bigger or leaner etc. I guess my point is that you should do the best you can naturally so that you look undeniably impressive.

I believe that fact you placed 3rd in your first competition and then 1st in the your second says a heck of a lot about the kind of physique you're able to naturally build. At this stage I don't believe you've even seen the very best of what your body can do.

I think the achievements you've made have been amazing and it has been exciting to see your progression thus far. I'm not looking to compete but your dedication is inspiring to me. I know you also inspire a lot of people on this board.

[kbragg]

It would depend on the type of performance enhancer. I am very aprehensive for example on using any type of hormones especially anything containing testosterone since I don't want anything that will effect my fertility or give me a deep voice or facial hair:lol: I don't think you need them though girl. The fact that SHE who is using performance enhancers asked YOU what you were using shows me that you are already ahead of the game.:yep:

[Brownchiq]

My responses are in bold.
No, I wouldn't take anything. I have immense respect for natural figure athletes. I had my bubble burst a few weeks ago that many figure athletes, like the girls in Oxygen and other athletes are not natural and I found it a shame. When I hear an athlete is not "clean", I'm just not as impressed with their physique. It's like, "of course you can shed all that body fat doing cardio 12x per week whilst lifting and still retain muscle mass" :rolleyes:. It's just like hearing someone lost 80lbs using drugs over doing it the healthier way.
Me too! Until I found out that "Natural" really means "NOT ANY MORE"! I work out hard right next to the bodybuilders and I diet. But I know I dont do ALL that I could do if I cut out 100% of the BS (ie. skipping meals, eating improper snacks, not drinking enough water, forgetting to take supplements as prescribed, skipping cardio or weight training). So if maybe I went by the book and took the time required I would be big enough. But you are right, there are MANY figure girls who come out the gate looking huge and dry and it aint because they are genetically blessed. These girls are turning to performance enhancers on their first shows:nono:
Does what that lady claim hold some truth? Honestly, I cannot even say for sure because I'm not in the industry. I know some of these more well-known athletes do use drugs though. Furthermore, from reading around the web it's clear that what those judges look for is hardly consistent - sometimes they want a harder look, some prefer a softer look and for others it's somewhere in the middle. If you don't place top 5 in an NPC comp, the reason might not even be because you're not bigger or leaner etc. I guess my point is that you should do the best you can naturally so that you look undeniably impressive.
I mean she could have spinkled some haterade. But she has some truth behind it. I went on another forum last night and read a 12 page thread about it and couldnt believe all the competitors who 'came out the closet'. These girls were beautiful and didnt have the 'look' that I tend to correlate to usage.
I would prefer to be natural and will do my best.

I believe that fact you placed 3rd in your first competition and then 1st in the your second says a heck of a lot about the kind of physique you're able to naturally build. At this stage I don't believe you've even seen the very best of what your body can do.
Aw thanks! That was actually my second competition. I placed 4th in the first competition back in 2007. I was had more muscle this year. Your words are very encouraging and I believe natural is the route for me.

I think the achievements you've made have been amazing and it has been exciting to see your progression thus far. I'm not looking to compete but your dedication is inspiring to me. I know you also inspire a lot of people on this board.

(((Black chick blushing))) You are all my motivators and I come here to help reassure that I can do it!:look:

[Nonie]

I agree with Tocktick. I got nervous reading that even though I don't know what's OK and what's "under the table" in that field, coz I always think of how pressure to do well led people who had been so good at what they did, to cross over to the no-no zone and all their hard work went down the drain coz all that came out. I'm not saying that whatever was being suggested is necessarily a banned substance, but I just couldn't help wondering what if it is...or later came to be. And then none of what you accomplished without it will be remember or believed.

It is disappointing to find that your hero wasn't a hero on his own effort but had help, and it is also tempting to follow suit, after all, aren't our heroes our role models?

:pullhair: I'm sorry you had to find out about this, coz this is the sort of info I would be curious to know and then wish I never knew coz it'd bother the heck out of me.

[Brownchiq]

It would depend on the type of performance enhancer. I am very aprehensive for example on using any type of hormones especially anything containing testosterone since I don't want anything that will effect my fertility or give me a deep voice or facial hair:lol: I don't think you need them though girl. The fact that SHE who is using performance enhancers asked YOU what you were using shows me that you are already ahead of the game.:yep:

I mean there is a lot out there. To the mild to the extreme and it all about duration and dosage. So the more you take the bigger you may become and the more facial hair, stronger jaw lines etc.
There are prohormones that encourage the production of testerone, which we produce just a very small amount. From what I gathered on this message board the low dosers reported:
muscle mass gains
leaner
some facial hair (but nothing extreme)
some swelling down there (went away after discontinued usage)
Deepened voice that did not subside but wasnt incredibly deep (whatever that means):nono:

I agree Id rather go the "natural" route. Although, my inpatience to get big is real...

[kbragg]

I mean there is a lot out there. To the mild to the extreme and it all about duration and dosage. So the more you take the bigger you may become and the more facial hair, stronger jaw lines etc.
There are prohormones that encourage the production of testerone, which we produce just a very small amount. From what I gathered on this message board the low dosers reported:
muscle mass gains
leaner
some facial hair (but nothing extreme)
some swelling down there (went away after discontinued usage)
Deepened voice that did not subside but wasnt incredibly deep (whatever that means):nono:

I agree Id rather go the "natural" route. Although, my inpatience to get big is real...

I sooo feel you girl! The temptation is a beast:nono: I've been there believe me. I've been frustrated so badly with my mommy belly and lack of booty that I've spent countless nights on google and message boards considering the unthinkable:nono: I even got so desperate to lose weight that I actually bought some of those now banned Super Slim Pomagranate Pills even knowing what was really in them:nono: I rationalized that I wasn't going to take them long term, just long enough to get to goal and brushed off the side effects and possible complications. I even took the pills for 3 days I'm ashamed to admit:nono: The first 2 days it worked great. The insomnia was awful but my appetite was gone and I even lost a bit of water weight. Then I was in Walmart on the 3rd day and was feeling very strange and light headed like my blood pressure was extremely low.

I had to sit down. I went to the little blood pressure thing and my pressure was in the normal range though on the low side. I decided right then and there not to take another one of those things. I would rather have this stomach for the rest of my life, then to drop dead in the middle of Walmart or live with Cancer or some debilitating disease.

Sometimes we need to step back and trust our bodies will do what they were designed to do when given the right raw materials. The truth is we never know what the long term effects are of any of these things. Shoot I gave up artificial sweeteners completely because of you and my surgeon friend:yep: There will always be other competitions but you only get one body you know? What if your tolerance is lower and it causes your overies to deform and you not be able to produce healthy eggs anymore? It's not worth it.

Your body is the bomb and you haven't even really begun to tap our potential.:yep: When you said performance enhancers I was thinking stuff like Creatine or something I am so dense:lachen:

At the end of the day if you go that route, then your conscience will never accept your victory as a true victory. You are more of a winner placing 5th all natural than any of those cheating women perpetrating a fraud that they acheived their physique's without illegal drugs.:yep:

[Nonie]

Brownchiq, look at it this way, in the end, when you are as big as you can be naturally and you know it was all your doing, you will be happier than any of those "cheats". What's more, when people talk about how most competitors use enhancers, imagine how good you'll feel when you can honestly say, "Not me!" What a role model you'll be! And to us you will be a winner no matter which way it goes because you did it all yourself. And guess who else will know you're the champ? Those who used enhancers. Deep inside they'll know who's the shizzle of them all. :yep:

[tocktick]

Me too! Until I found out that "Natural" really means "NOT ANY MORE"! I work out hard right next to the bodybuilders and I diet. But I know I dont do ALL that I could do if I cut out 100% of the BS (ie. skipping meals, eating improper snacks, not drinking enough water, forgetting to take supplements as prescribed, skipping cardio or weight training). So if maybe I went by the book and took the time required I would be big enough. But you are right, there are MANY figure girls who come out the gate looking huge and dry and it aint because they are genetically blessed. These girls are turning to performance enhancers on their first shows:nono:

I mean she could have spinkled some haterade. But she has some truth behind it. I went on another forum last night and read a 12 page thread about it and couldnt believe all the competitors who 'came out the closet'. These girls were beautiful and didnt have the 'look' that I tend to correlate to usage.
I would prefer to be natural and will do my best.

Aw thanks! That was actually my second competition. I placed 4th in the first competition back in 2007. I was had more muscle this year. Your words are very encouraging and I believe natural is the route for me.

(((Black chick blushing))) You are all my motivators and I come here to help reassure that I can do it!:look:


I know not every one has the kind of look that seems to suggest they're using something on the grey/black market. However, even though some of these "unnatural" women have figures people may covet, that doesn't mean hard work fails to get results.

I think it was pretty irresponsible and stupid for that lady to suggest going the drug route (maybe she was just a lil' salty you're doing so well without help...wouldn't be surprised). You've placed very well in all four competitions (progressively better in each, which is awesome); your methods seem to be working for you and you're not even doing everything to ensure the best output from your body. Explore tightening up and maximising your training and diet first. I'm sure we can all relate to impatience but I don't think you should be considering turning to drugs this early in the game when you haven't fully explored the natural route for that long.

[JustKiya]

I turn this question over to you, if you were presented with the option to take your physique, weight loss goals etc to the next level with a low dose of performance enhancers with no side effects, would you do it for a short 8 week span?

Assuming there are truly no side-effects, and it is not a hormonal product of any kind - yes. Without a second thought, actually.

I'm not trying to compete - and I think that if I was, I would feel somekindaway - cheaterriffic, almost.

But for my personal weight loss goals - I'd gladly take something that would allow me to continue to lose weight and build muscle without having to hit the gym for 75 minutes erry other day. GLADLY.

[Aviah]

I wouldn't, personally. It may just have that knock-on effect of: "okay I took a little and won this competition, but the next one will be so much tougher". So then goes a little more, etc. Like going to the dollar store and overspending in a way, you always think that one extra dollar won't hurt. Until you get to the checkout. I admit, I don't know much about the stuff, but I have heard one too many horror stories regarding them. Like with other sports, I would think doing it for the love of it is already half of it. Winning isn't everything, especially when it comes to your health.
HTH!

[vainღ♥♡jane]

no i'd be too scared.

[Mom23]

No, I wouldn't and I think you are doing a great job. You look great, and I would hate for you to take something that could hurt you. Everyone responds to things differently.

I understand impatience....:lachen:if I could lose this last 10 pounds faster I would, but every time I lift those weights and see definition in my arms and legs, every time I run that extra mile, I know that I am building the body I want and I'm proud of myself because I see what my hard work is doing, and when you post pics we see how hard you have been working and the great results you have been getting.

We are so proud of you and we know you can do it the natural way!!

Best wishes with your next competition.

[schipperchow1]

Well, for me, caffeine & chocolate are my performance enhancing substances:grin:

But on a serious note, many substances that have been on the market, even natural ones, that later prove to have some negative effects on the internal organs. I can understand the impatience & temptation though...i.e. I wanted to lose weight before a trip & was looking for something to speed the process along...a guy said the best way is to diet & exercise:ohwell:. But I still ended up buying slimquick extreme even though it had artificial colors, etc (all things I try to avoid putting in my body:nono:) Anyway, I think I took it 2 days & read not to take w/alcohol, this was around the time another diet pill was being pulled off the market for liver & kidney problems. So I stopped because I do like my glass of red wine at night:look:

Long story short, I am still not where I'd like to be physically because I am not as dedicated, committed, or as consistent as you are. You are an inspiration & a reminder that these "old-fashioned" values & actions bring lasting success. Your victories bring peace & health, not fear of being caught or losing your fertility or health.

Keep up the good work & best of luck in your next competition :yep:.

[Brownchiq]

[QUOTE=Nonie;9034424

It is disappointing to find that your hero wasn't a hero on his own effort but had help, and it is also tempting to follow suit, after all, aren't our heroes our role models?

:pullhair: I'm sorry you had to find out about this, coz this is the sort of info I would be curious to know and then wish I never knew coz it'd bother the heck out of me.[/QUOTE]
^^^ITA!
I was so surprised to hear that the people that I basically looked up to as celebrities were using some REAL illegal substances. I mean floored! I thought that every last one of them lifted heavier than me, dieted harder did more cardio etc.
From what I understand about these substances, you still have to lift,do cardio and diet just as hard or harder than the next, but you see the gains faster. So instead of it taking somone 10 years to be ready for Ms. Olympia it might take them 3 years otherwise.
I am an ectomorph, meaning I am have a slim build and it takes me TIME to build up top.

In the end, I dont want to take any short cuts to get to the top but you know what I mean, I want it now!!!

[Brownchiq]

Sometimes we need to step back and trust our bodies will do what they were designed to do when given the right raw materials. The truth is we never know what the long term effects are of any of these things. Shoot I gave up artificial sweeteners completely because of you and my surgeon friend:yep: There will always be other competitions but you only get one body you know? What if your tolerance is lower and it causes your overies to deform and you not be able to produce healthy eggs anymore? It's not worth it.

Your body is the bomb and you haven't even really begun to tap our potential.:yep: When you said performance enhancers I was thinking stuff like Creatine or something I am so dense:lachen:

At the end of the day if you go that route, then your conscience will never accept your victory as a true victory. You are more of a winner placing 5th all natural than any of those cheating women perpetrating a fraud that they acheived their physique's without illegal drugs.:yep:

That bold part is so true! Im off to Trader Joes and WHole Food this afternoon because Im insane about what Im eating these days so why wouldnt one be cautious about some of these enhancers.
But to keep it real, I appreciate you sharing that you have thought about it too!
Its real taboo, but when you are put in a situation where winning really is everything and "If you're not first, you're last" then you are tempted to try the inevitable to win. Most of us are our own biggest critic. When people compliment you in awe of how incredible you look Kbragg and how far you have come, you might say "Oh I still have to do such and such'. I know I DO! When my parents saw me compete for the first time, they couldnt believe it! But all I could think about was how was I going to grow my shoulders and lean out my legs more for the next show!!
So next time I will explore some other methods such as creatine, Noxplode, tibestan, maybe etc which you can find at any GNC but I will do adequate research to make sure I dont harm anything in the meantime.

Lets keep it real ladies and discuss!

[Brownchiq]

Brownchiq, look at it this way, in the end, when you are as big as you can be naturally and you know it was all your doing, you will be happier than any of those "cheats". What's more, when people talk about how most competitors use enhancers, imagine how good you'll feel when you can honestly say, "Not me!" What a role model you'll be! And to us you will be a winner no matter which way it goes because you did it all yourself. And guess who else will know you're the champ? Those who used enhancers. Deep inside they'll know who's the shizzle of them all. :yep:
That was encouraging!
SO the moral of the story:
"ENJOY THE JOURNEY! Dont jump to the end!"

[Brownchiq]

I know not every one has the kind of look that seems to suggest they're using something on the grey/black market. However, even though some of these "unnatural" women have figures people may covet, that doesn't mean hard work fails to get results.

I think it was pretty irresponsible and stupid for that lady to suggest going the drug route (maybe she was just a lil' salty you're doing so well without help...wouldn't be surprised). You've placed very well in all four competitions (progressively better in each, which is awesome); your methods seem to be working for you and you're not even doing everything to ensure the best output from your body. Explore tightening up and maximising your training and diet first. I'm sure we can all relate to impatience but I don't think you should be considering turning to drugs this early in the game when you haven't fully explored the natural route for that long.
True!
I definitely think with hard work you will be your best, but no matter how much I practice Ill never be "Michael Jordan" although my jump shot may improve:yep:

I do agree, that with time, our physiques can improve and with more reasearch on diet and nutrition I can maximize naturally!

[Brownchiq]

Assuming there are truly no side-effects, and it is not a hormonal product of any kind - yes. Without a second thought, actually.

I'm not trying to compete - and I think that if I was, I would feel somekindaway - cheaterriffic, almost.

But for my personal weight loss goals - I'd gladly take something that would allow me to continue to lose weight and build muscle without having to hit the gym for 75 minutes erry other day. GLADLY.

Thanks for your honesty!

I have traditionally looked down on those who turned to performance enhancers to win. I thought it was cheating too! But the honest truth about it, you still have to work at it for it to work. The only plus about taking it is that you are guaranteed to look bigger/ better if you take it. Whereas someone who is natural may or may not see real growth occuring in that same amount of time.
But there is ALWAYS a trade off. You might start at a low dose and increase because you get hooked! Then your voice deepens, hair appears on your chest etc...
No thanks!:nono:

[NappyMD]

I think we are mixing topics, to be frank. Some people have come on here talking about slimquick and other diet aids. Everyone in the industry, OP included, is taking green tea extract, lipo 6 or other fat burners, and stuff to stimulate muscle growth. What we are really talking about is going the hormone affecting route.

If there were no side effects, there wouldn't be much difference between taking the hormone/prehormone stuff and the fatburners. And in that case, I think anyone willing to take a fatburner would take it, myself included. The problem is, there are side effects and they are impossible to avoid. They are also much more severe than the fatburners! Besides the things listed above, one can get tendon rupture, serious infections, cystic acne, and more messing with that stuff.

Brownchiq, do you have calorie surplus now? Cause even taking steroids won't get you there without a surplus, and your diet seemed to be at a calorie deficit before... :look: