Self-Titled "Ministers"

[nicola.kirwan]

So, lately I've been running into more and more young men in particular who "self-title" themselves, "Minister Joe" or "Bishop Bobby," "Rev.," etc. They might hold some ministry positions at church, but they aren't ordained. They don't force others to call them that, but they go by those names, or let other people call them that.

Am I being too harsh for considering this to be incredibly vain and arrogant?

It just seems that it's giving yourself some kind of spiritual authority with others without going through the proper channels. But then again, I went to a church run by a husband and wife-"pastors"-also not ordained and untrained, who basically started their own congregation. Idk, I have issues with this.

[Ramya]

I have issues with it too. It's out of order :nono:.

[plainj]

I'm not sure how I feel about this topic especially since I'm somewhat a new Christian and don't know much about what a preacher really is biblically or his biblical role, but I did find a quote that moved me when I read it:
A preacher in those days, when he felt God called him to preach, didn't hunt up a college or seminary, he hunted up a good horse, took off across the country and began crying "Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world"! Today they look for the best paying job with the best retirement package.

[momi]

It just tickles me really. When I run into someone and they introduce themselves as "Pastor, Bishop, Apostle" so and so I am thinking "dont you have a first or last name? I really think, unless you are in a church setting that is totally unnecessary.

Due to the misconduct of various clergy as of late, I am of the mind that there should be some type of creed outlawing against self-proclamation and the office holder should have to answer to a governing body.

[mscocoface]

I understand your point, but from a biblical view none of the deciples where ordained, Jesus said go out and preach to the world.

I do agree with you though I have seen those with no credentials and you can tell they have the gift of ministry and I have seen those with all the papers and certifications you can get and they are as wicked as the day is long.

For me the proof is in the pudding. I am like those from Missouri, you are going to have to show me how your works play out in your ministry, your church, your people, the community. How do you act when no one is around and how do you act when you are in front of an audience.


I don't take stock too much in titles and certifications anymore. I go by their works.

[daydreem2876]

I can definitely see both sides of this argument but IMHO it takes some training and a certain level of experience, whether formal or informal, to be ordained as a pastor, co-pastor, bishop etc. Those titles should be earned just like one earns the title Doctor of Judge. I agree with Ramya, it is out of order... divine order.

[Almaz]

I have a friend whose sister now calls herself Prophetess. After many years of Sloring around but hey we can all turn over a new leaf

[Laela]

Hi, Nicola,

The key word is SELF.
God is a God of order...even those who are called would go through the proper channels to get ordained.

[AfriPrincess411]

It just tickles me really. When I run into someone and they introduce themselves as "Pastor, Bishop, Apostle" so and so I am thinking "dont you have a first or last name? I really think, unless you are in a church setting that is totally unnecessary.

Due to the misconduct of various clergy as of late, I am of the mind that there should be some type of creed outlawing against self-proclamation and the office holder should have to answer to a governing body.

:lachen::lachen:

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I understand your point, but from a biblical view none of the deciples where ordained, Jesus said go out and preach to the world.
.

They were "ordained" by Christ and we follow their apostolic tradition, not just Peter. Thomas founded a church in India, St. Mark in Egypt...Peter in Rome etc. I'm not sure just how much Torah knowledge they all had...but they learned everything from the master in the flesh. That was quite an "ordainment." :yep:

[trenise]

They were "ordained" by Christ and we follow their apostolic tradition, not just Peter. Thomas founded a church in India, St. Mark in Egypt...Peter in Rome etc. I'm not sure just how much Torah knowledge they all had...but they learned everything from the master in the flesh. That was quite an "ordainment." :yep:

You beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.

[trenise]

Even "back in the day" when there were no seminaries for black people (or whomever) to attend, there were still people for them to give an account to. The people came together and prayed and laid on hands, and sent them out. People who went out on their own were referred to as "Jack-legged" preachers.

[nicola.kirwan]

They were "ordained" by Christ and we follow their apostolic tradition, not just Peter. Thomas founded a church in India, St. Mark in Egypt...Peter in Rome etc. I'm not sure just how much Torah knowledge they all had...but they learned everything from the master in the flesh. That was quite an "ordainment." :yep:

Quite an "ordainment" indeed. Paul did say in Galatians that after Jesus appeared to him he did not "confer with flesh and blood" but rather went straight to Damascus to be about the work of the Lord. But Jesus Himself appeared to him! When the other apostles were replacing Judas, they all got together and prayed, fasted and cast lots to see who the Lord would have them choose. When they were selecting deacons, they got together and appointed them first. Missionaries were "sent out" by the church, etc.

I have no problem with people being about the work of the Lord, whether it's "official" or not, but what does that have to do with proclaiming oneself "Bishop" or "Prophet"? It makes me ask "What great things have you done to merit that title?"

[Shimmie]

Self titled is often self appointed, which is not official.

The question is: "Who do you answer to?" If they say Jesus, then it's not officially ordained. This the first clue to those who are 'self-appointed'.

Some may read this and lose a weave track, therefore,

For 'Clarity': I am well aware that we 'ALL' answer to Jesus.

In answer to this thread topic, it's the same as two unmarried people who 'call themselves' Married but haven't obtained a license and an officiate to document said Marriage.

Question: Who married you? Their answer: "God".

Ummmm, okay? So you're not really married. :nono:

However, do keep in mind that the 'True' gifts do not need a title. A gift will flow and be used of God whether a person has been officially ordained (by an office of the Ministry) or not. If you're called of God, you are indeed called of God and the title appointing is just a formality and in respect to the law. For it is against the law to take on the office of Ministry and to collect funds for such without a license.

So anyone in Ministry without a license and is collecting funds, they are in trouble, for this money has to be legally accounted for.

Bear in mind also that many have been ordained and do have a license but are still not called and neither do they have the operational gift or gifts of the Spirit appointed by God.

Meaning, that one does not necessarily have the operational gifts of the Spirit or a Spiritual Leader, just because they have been given an ordianation ceremony. Anyone can have a title and a paper document or wear a 'collar', but they have not been called to such, by God, but by man.

So! It is by their 'Fruit' that we may know them. :Rose:

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I have no problem with people being about the work of the Lord, whether it's "official" or not, but what does that have to do with proclaiming oneself "Bishop" or "Prophet"? It makes me ask "What great things have you done to merit that title?"

I was responding to the part about apostles not being ordained....but they were, and directly so. Jakeleg/bootleg ministers. Well, as a catholic.....:lachen:.....we don't have those problems. :drunk:

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Bear in mind also that many have been ordained and do have a license but are still not called and neither do they have the operational gift or gifts of the Spirit appointed by God.

Meaning, that one does not necessarily have the operational gifts of the Spirit or a Spiritual Leader, just because they have been given an ordianation ceremony. Anyone can have a title and a paper document or wear a 'collar', but they have not been called to such, by God, but by man.

So! It is by their 'Fruit' that we may know them. :Rose:

And if they mess up with the money, it'll be by their "fruits" that we'll throw them out.:lachen:

[nicola.kirwan]

I was responding to the part about apostles not being ordained....but they were, and directly so. Jakeleg/bootleg ministers. Well, as a catholic.....:lachen:.....we don't have those problems. :drunk:

But maybe a whole host of others! I really want to go back sometimes. I've been considering finding an Orthodox church lately. The wheels fell off the Anglican church in the USA, and well, I actually believe in apostolic succession and the sacraments and that leaves either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. In those traditions, you can't even think about going to seminary without the approval of the pastor, congregation, bishop, etc.

[momi]

Self titled is often self appointed, which is not official.

The question is: "Who do you answer to?" If they say Jesus, then it's not officially ordained. This the first clue to those who are 'self-appointed'.

Some may read this and lose a weave track, therefore,

For 'Clarity': I am well aware that we 'ALL' answer to Jesus.

In answer to this thread topic, it's the same as two unmarried people who 'call themselves' Married but haven't obtained a license and an officiate to document said Marriage.

Question: Who married you? Their answer: "God".

Ummmm, okay? So you're not really married. :nono:

However, do keep in mind that the 'True' gifts do not need a title. A gift will flow and be used of God whether a person has been officially ordained (by an office of the Ministry) or not. If you're called of God, you are indeed called of God and the title appointing is just a formality and in respect to the law. For it is against the law to take on the office of Ministry and to collect funds for such without a license.

So anyone in Ministry without a license and is collecting funds, they are in trouble, for this money has to be legally accounted for.

Bear in mind also that many have been ordained and do have a license but are still not called and neither do they have the operational gift or gifts of the Spirit appointed by God.

Meaning, that one does not necessarily have the operational gifts of the Spirit or a Spiritual Leader, just because they have been given an ordianation ceremony. Anyone can have a title and a paper document or wear a 'collar', but they have not been called to such, by God, but by man.

So! It is by their 'Fruit' that we may know them. :Rose:


I have been laughing out loud at this post. My dog is looking at me crazy.:spinning:

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

But maybe a whole host of others! I really want to go back sometimes. I've been considering finding an Orthodox church lately. The wheels fell off the Anglican church in the USA, and well, I actually believe in apostolic succession and the sacraments and that leaves either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. In those traditions, you can't even think about going to seminary without the approval of the pastor, congregation, bishop, etc.


I so wanted to ask you about the Anglicans! Aren't they returning to the Catholic Church or is that just the English? This summer in Michigan, around Grand Haven, I passed by a church that said, "Anglican Catholic Church." I hadn't heard of it and I was driving too fast to turn back lol. But it got me thinking about something I heard where they were petitioning or whatever they call it to return. Lutherans, Episcopalians and Anglicans have a very similar mass to the catholics.

Well, I also have been considering the Orthodox. I absolutely LOVE the Coptics. They aren't heretical...as they don't believe in that Eutycles idea about the nature of Christ. There's this political stench surrounding them from hundreds of years back. They are kosher. But all I have to do is look to St. Maryam Church in Egypt and see that Our Lady visited there. If she can visit there, appearing to thousands, christian, muslim and anyone of any faith...I'm okay with it.

I've considered the Antiochian Church, the Syrian....we've got all that here within easy reach. The only problem....the orthodox have this Jewish thing and I'm not having it at all! They have these residual prejudices and it's holding me back. Since we still attend synagogue from time to time, I don't want that idea getting to my kids.

I know what you mean...there's so much I wish to write about it...my heart hurts so much...but I only have to look to Abba, Yeshua and Miriam and know that, the scriptures are Jewish...so are the sacraments...and that, at least, I'm home. I'm home. G-d will take care of the rest.

[BlackHairDiva]

So, lately I've been running into more and more young men in particular who "self-title" themselves, "Minister Joe" or "Bishop Bobby," "Rev.," etc. They might hold some ministry positions at church, but they aren't ordained. They don't force others to call them that, but they go by those names, or let other people call them that.

Am I being too harsh for considering this to be incredibly vain and arrogant?

It just seems that it's giving yourself some kind of spiritual authority with others without going through the proper channels. But then again, I went to a church run by a husband and wife-"pastors"-also not ordained and untrained, who basically started their own congregation. Idk, I have issues with this.


No I feel the same way, there are a lot of them in the african community.