FoxyScholar
04-30-2008, 06:36 AM
IMO the establishment of the 10 commandments were because of Adam's fall in the garden (I only list Adam b/c it is written that though one man's disobedience sin came -Adam... and again written through one man's obedience -Jesus.... Additionally, Adam was instructed not to eat of that tree prior to Eve being created see Gen. 3:16-18 but Eve was aware of God's instructions). Man's wickedness was so great that God was grieved that he even created man and sent a flood. He destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah for the same reason - man's sins and wickedness. The tree that they ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing the Law (the 10 commandments) meant knowing sin which meant no flesh was justified. Paul said that the law itself is not sin but in the law is the knowledge of sin.
God could no more "expect" than not expect man to not sin or to keep his commandments because sin is in man from birth. All have sinned and fallen short. Paul even gave that awesomely confusing soliloquy about the war inside between the flesh/mind and the spirit.
Mankind does have free will and we can choose to obey or not. Under the Law they had to have the atonement rituals, as was stated to get right before God, but that does not mean that the rituals were inadequate. They were a stop gap measure until the Messiah came. Now that He has come, we no longer need animals for blood sacrifices and priests to present the sacrifice to God in periodic rituals; but we do still need a blood sacrifice (Jesus shed his blood for us) and an advocate to bring it before God (Jesus ascended to deliver himself to God as an acceptable sacrifice which is why he said not to touch him b/c he had not ascended and had he been touched the sacrifice would have been tainted and unable to be accepted by God).
IMO if the rituals were inadequate, God would not have instructed the people to perform them.
Summary: I do not agree that the rituals were inadequate*. My opinion is that the commandments were created as a result of the sin in the world because of the fall of man in the garden.
Note:
If inadequate is being used in the sense of insufficient since the rituals had to be repeated vs. the one time sacrifice of Jesus then I would agree. However, if inadequate is being used in the sense of "not good enough" or unsatisfactory then that is where I disagree b/c God would not establish or accept something that he would find unsatisfactory.
Good, robust conversation overall....
Per the bolded: I think both suggestions you describe can apply. Certainly the first part about the one-time all-sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And then with the second part, I wouldn't (necessarily) say "not good enough", but more like "unequal", like when you have an original document and you make a copy on a copy machine. The copy (e.g., the rituals, in this case) are only a SUBSTITUTE for the original atonement (JESUS CHRIST). The Lord God ESTABLISHED and ACCEPTED the earthly rituals out of His mercy and grace and because HE knew what he was going to do re. executing His ultimate plan of redemption: the Lord God Almighty putting on an earthsuit and coming to Planet Earth through a woman and being that PERFECT (one-time) SACRIFICE for us all.
God could no more "expect" than not expect man to not sin or to keep his commandments because sin is in man from birth. All have sinned and fallen short. Paul even gave that awesomely confusing soliloquy about the war inside between the flesh/mind and the spirit.
Mankind does have free will and we can choose to obey or not. Under the Law they had to have the atonement rituals, as was stated to get right before God, but that does not mean that the rituals were inadequate. They were a stop gap measure until the Messiah came. Now that He has come, we no longer need animals for blood sacrifices and priests to present the sacrifice to God in periodic rituals; but we do still need a blood sacrifice (Jesus shed his blood for us) and an advocate to bring it before God (Jesus ascended to deliver himself to God as an acceptable sacrifice which is why he said not to touch him b/c he had not ascended and had he been touched the sacrifice would have been tainted and unable to be accepted by God).
IMO if the rituals were inadequate, God would not have instructed the people to perform them.
Summary: I do not agree that the rituals were inadequate*. My opinion is that the commandments were created as a result of the sin in the world because of the fall of man in the garden.
Note:
If inadequate is being used in the sense of insufficient since the rituals had to be repeated vs. the one time sacrifice of Jesus then I would agree. However, if inadequate is being used in the sense of "not good enough" or unsatisfactory then that is where I disagree b/c God would not establish or accept something that he would find unsatisfactory.
Good, robust conversation overall....
Per the bolded: I think both suggestions you describe can apply. Certainly the first part about the one-time all-sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And then with the second part, I wouldn't (necessarily) say "not good enough", but more like "unequal", like when you have an original document and you make a copy on a copy machine. The copy (e.g., the rituals, in this case) are only a SUBSTITUTE for the original atonement (JESUS CHRIST). The Lord God ESTABLISHED and ACCEPTED the earthly rituals out of His mercy and grace and because HE knew what he was going to do re. executing His ultimate plan of redemption: the Lord God Almighty putting on an earthsuit and coming to Planet Earth through a woman and being that PERFECT (one-time) SACRIFICE for us all.