Crunk Music in the church?

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I'm reading an article about these Atlanta gospel rappers that are trying to bring crunk music into the church. ( Imagine Lil Jon saying " Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!" instead of " Uhhhhhyeahhhhhhhhhhh!" and you get the idea) It seems that Gospel music has 'sprouted' many variations of diversity. You name it, Gospel music has it.
-Jazz
-Neo Soul
-spoken poetry
-Rap
-Heavy Metal
... and now Crunk music? Where is the line drawn ? Is there a line at all? Surely there has to be more to worship music than taking a musical style and sprinkling the name "Jesus" and " Believer" throughout. I admit that I enjoy contemporary gospel music but lately it's been a guilty pleasure because I know deep down that although there is a positive message behind the song, it's the beat thats has alot to do with it. So Choir lead music is really whats in the disc changer these days.

My question is.. where is the line for you or is it much adu about nothing?

[FoxyScholar]

I firmly believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not have to be so soaked in pop culture (almost beyond recognition) to appeal to the youth.

[pebbles]

I firmly believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not have to be so soaked in pop culture (almost beyond recognition) to appeal to the youth.

I agree with you. :)

[Shimmie]

I'm reading an article about these Atlanta gospel rappers that are trying to bring crunk music into the church. ( Imagine Lil Jon saying " Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!" instead of " Uhhhhhyeahhhhhhhhhhh!" and you get the idea) It seems that Gospel music has 'sprouted' many variations of diversity. You name it, Gospel music has it.
-Jazz
-Neo Soul
-spoken poetry
-Rap
-Heavy Metal
... and now Crunk music? Where is the line drawn ? Is there a line at all? Surely there has to be more to worship music than taking a musical style and sprinkling the name "Jesus" and " Believer" throughout. I admit that I enjoy contemporary gospel music but lately it's been a guilty pleasure because I know deep down that although there is a positive message behind the song, it's the beat thats has alot to do with it. So Choir lead music is really whats in the disc changer these days.

My question is.. where is the line for you or is it much adu about nothing?

There has to be a line drawn...and not just 'somewhere', but period; a straight cut.

In my observations the 'spirit' behind the music is not always lead of the Holy Spirit. Given, there are some who can 'jazz' up a song; yet still you know it's worship; and they are still flowing in the Spirit of the Lord (Yolanda Adams - CeCe Winans). Then there are others that are not; they are truly in their 'flesh' and they have not dropped the spirit of the 'world' to give Honor to God. They're 'clubbing' in the Altar which to me is offensive and dishonorable to pure worship.

When I'm in worship in Church or even at home, I don't need a distraction in rhythm. Personally, I'm especially mindful /careful of this because the rhythm of any music 'attracts' a response in my spirit that I will just naturally move with as soon as I hear it. As a dancer I know this first hand. Just being 'Black' brings a response to rhythm; it's in 'us' naturally.

While I don't know what 'Crunk Music' is, I'm sure it's one music genre that does not belong in a worship service. It 'appears' as a 'harsh rhythm'.

The Church needs to come off of the wagon of compromise and stop using the excuses of 'drawing' in the crowds, using their music to make them come and stay in the Church. Ummmm, could this be the reason for so much going on in the Church...just letting anything come and go on?

Whatever happen to 'change' of one's heart and their ways? Leaving those things behind and pressing forward in Jesus? If I truly love God, I won't need to 'crunk' my way into His presence. Loving someone just naturally brings and keeps you there, no matter what you have to leave behind. So, it should be in worship. ;)

[msportugal]

many would consider the gospel music of today just as radical as crunk music
compare the way the music in them dusty hardly picked up or played as written hymnals to a kirk franklin or yolanda adams etc

remember everyone is not from the same flock, that being said i'm not in the recruit them by any means necessary group either thats how we got pagan laden holidays like christmas and easter

[Radianthealth]

Crunk music is bad enough outside the church!!!! Yuck, please don't tell me they are trying to bring this trash into God's house...well to each his own I guess:perplexed :(

[live2bgr8]

many would consider the gospel music of today just as radical as crunk music
compare the way the music in them dusty hardly picked up or played as written hymnals to a kirk franklin or yolanda adams etc

remember everyone is not from the same flock, that being said i'm not in the recruit them by any means necessary group either thats how we got pagan laden holidays like christmas and easter

ITA-- It is important for mature believers to discern between the flesh and the Spirit. My barometer? "Is the music drawing me nearer to God?" or "Is it just a shake my money maker song?" If it's the latter-- I try to say away from it...

That said, I like to rock the Cross Movement (my favorite hip hop artists) or Christafari... (reggae) in my car from time to time. However I also rock, CeCe... Yolanda... Virtue... Israel Haughton (sp?)... Fred Hammond... Third Day... 4Him... Avalon... Jeremy Camp... Maranatha! Music...

Can you believe there was a time when Maranatha! was looked down upon by "believers"??? :eek: The Jesus Movement was totally radical way of looking at God... People started sayin' "you can have a relationship with the Creator of the Universe because his Son Jesus came down and made a way"... Totally UNHEARD of...

B4 this movent the western church had gotten bogged down in the religious rituals that made them look pious... However the heart was not there...

Now almost e'ry mega and mini church rocks at least one of their songs during worship service... Where would I be without "Jesus Draw Me Close" or "Let it Rise" :perplexed

I think God could use a crunk artist to speak His truth... He moved a donkey to speak by His Holy Spirit didn't He?

[kbragg]

I think God could use a crunk artist to speak His truth... He moved a donkey to speak by His Holy Spirit didn't He?

Crunk music is demeaning to women, sexually perverse, and has NOTHING to do with God, I don't care how you change the words:mad: He used a Donkey, but the donkey wasn't freak dancing either now was he. Oh I can see it now, women already come to church looking like they're just stoping in on their way to the club, next will be praise singers "droppin' it like it's hot" but it's ok 'cause they're "dancin' fo' Jesus" oh Lord Jesus Help Us!:eek:

[StrawberryQueen]

many would consider the gospel music of today just as radical as crunk music
compare the way the music in them dusty hardly picked up or played as written hymnals to a kirk franklin or yolanda adams etc

remember everyone is not from the same flock, that being said i'm not in the recruit them by any means necessary group either thats how we got pagan laden holidays like christmas and easter
I agree with this. Crunk music as gospel music is simply refering to the beat of the music.

It can't be degrading to women if it's about the Lord, correct?

[michc]

Crunk music is demeaning to women, sexually perverse, and has NOTHING to do with God, I don't care how you change the words He used a Donkey, but the donkey wasn't freak dancing either now was he. Oh I can see it now, women already come to church looking like they're just stoping in on their way to the club, next will be praise singers "droppin' it like it's hot" but it's ok 'cause they're "dancin' fo' Jesus" oh Lord Jesus Help Us!


What she said!

ETA: Correct spelling mistake

[FoxyScholar]

I agree with this. Crunk music as gospel music is simply refering to the beat of the music.

It can't be degrading to women if it's about the Lord, correct?

This raises a point for us to consider EXACTLY what we're talking about in terms of genre of music, style of music, vs. content of the music/song.

for example, on Circuit City's website, there are several genres of music to choose from, including:
blues
classical
country
folk
gospel
jazz
latin
r&b
rap
rock

I can entertain the notion that a song with a gospel message can come through these genres: a gospel song with a

blues--those durn quartets! :lol:
classical--Richard Smallwood
country--those durn quartets again or Carrie Underwood's "Jesus Take the Wheel"
folk--contemporary Christian (?)
gospel--a given; the list is endless
jazz--Ben Tankard, Yolanda Adams, Dorinda Clark Cole
latin--Israel and New Breed, Joann Rosario
r&b--Karen Clark Sheard, Kirk, etc.
rap--Cross Movement, etc.

Now with that said, I think we get the term "genre" confused with the term "style". A style of music might be:

adult alternative
adult alternative pop/rock
album rock
alternative dance
alternative folk
alternative pop/rock
ambient techno
american popular song
american trad rock
asian folk
bava
bel canto opera
bikutsi
bluebeat
british invasion
british metal
bulgarian folk
carols
celtic gospel
celtic new age
ceremonial
changui
childrens stories
chinese folk
christmas
club/dance
compas
contemporary country
contemporary native american
country-rock
cowpunk
creole
dance-pop
deep funk revival
documentary
downtempo
drama
educational
electronica
fight songs
film music
finnish folk
general rock
glitch
goth rock
gregorian chant
hard rock
heavy metal
hebrew
holiday
house
impressionist
instrumental gospel
jazz-house
jibaro
juju
latin freestyle
mbira
merengue
mexican folk
microsound
microtonal
modern delta blues
morning radio
motown
musicals
mystical minimalism
neo-romantic
new age tone poems
newbeat
norwegian folk
onda grupera
plena
pop/rock
prog-rock/art rock
pygmy
reggae gospel
renaissance
rock & roll
sacred vocal
scandinavian folk
sing-along
smooth jazz
soft rock
soundtracks
sports anthems
st. louis blues
surf revival
swamp pop
swedish folk
swedish pop/rock
techno bass
techno-dub
township jazz
traditional chinese
traditional european folk
video game music
wedding music
work songs
worldbeat

I don't think a genre of music develops overnight. Hip-hop music, although what, going on about 30 years old now, is still quite new, but it is emerging as a genre of music vs. a style. I think with hip hop and crunk, there's still such a worldly aspect to it and the fact that a gospel artist has not yet successfully made a song that has been good enough to crossover into gospel, crunk, in its present state, has not gotten enough spiritual and natural credibility to belong/fit in the church just yet.

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

many would consider the gospel music of today just as radical as crunk music
compare the way the music in them dusty hardly picked up or played as written hymnals to a kirk franklin or yolanda adams etc

remember everyone is not from the same flock, that being said I'm not in the recruit them by any means necessary group either thats how we got pagan laden holidays like christmas and easter

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Theres a HUGE grey area on this. I feel theres a discipline and lifestyle change when you walk in Christ. I don't see where the personal sacrifice is when everything thats offered worldly is offered in the church. Theres no change over other than a personal declaration that "I'm saved".

I've heard the comparisons that Thomas Dorsey was the Kirk franklin of his time. However, Mr Dorsey's music maintained a respect of his faith ( e.g Oh happy Day... and Precious Lord). Some things go too far. How does one justify crunk dancing when crunk dancing came from the streets? It's suddenly cleaned up and acceptable because religious overtones are replaced with the sexual salaciousness? I thought the Ministry leads the way, not conform itself to worldly influences. The good intentions are noble but worship and praise deserves better respect.

If it's that easy then anything can be done as long as you do it in Jesus name and thats scary. I hear so much about personal freedom these days but very little about personal discretion and responsibility behind these decisions. There is just so much being taken advantage of these grey areas in our life. Again, more attention being placed on what God doesn't say rather than what he does. I think as Christians that although we must maintain an open heart, we should watch the wolves in sheep's clothing but if we are so caught up in relativities then the pool becomes further diluted.

[live2bgr8]

Crunk music is demeaning to women, sexually perverse, and has NOTHING to do with God, I don't care how you change the words:mad: He used a Donkey, but the donkey wasn't freak dancing either now was he. Oh I can see it now, women already come to church looking like they're just stoping in on their way to the club, next will be praise singers "droppin' it like it's hot" but it's ok 'cause they're "dancin' fo' Jesus" oh Lord Jesus Help Us!:eek:

I don't know much about crunk... Maybe I'm too old... LOL... but the same was said about hip hop... and jazz... dancehall... Mozart was a rabble rouser... However, God has flipped the script and used those types of music for His glory... Why not crunk???

I have a radical idea for you... Jesus was the main one hanging out with untouchables... Prositutes, even:eek: ... I don't think judging a BEAT of music nor the culture it comes from is the right thing to do... The words/lyrics/arrangement ultimately convey the spirit behind it...

Without Jesus leading the way we all would be heathens... :eek: ;)

[FoxyScholar]

I don't know much about crunk... Maybe I'm too old... LOL... but the same was said about hip hop... and jazz... dancehall... Mozart was a rabble rouser... However, God has flipped the script and used those types of music for His glory... Why not crunk???

I have a radical idea for you... Jesus was the main one hanging out with untouchables... Prositutes, even:eek: ... I don't think judging a BEAT of music nor the culture it comes from is the right thing to do... The words/lyrics/arrangement ultimately convey the spirit behind it...

Without Jesus leading the way we all would be heathens... :eek: ;)

I don't know if it's that "God flipped the script". God just gravitates to where He's being glorified. And it's easy to tell if a piece of music was composed out of a place of holiness vs. a place of hell/seducing spirits. When I saw the movie "Hustle and Flow" and saw how they came up with that music, you could sense the hypnotism in, even before dude uttered the words "whoop dat trick".

Yes, Mozart's music was considered radical, unconventional in his day (P.S., I really liked the movie "Amadeus"!), but it doesn't make all of his music any more holy. Handel's Messiah was about the Messiah, thaty's why it's anointed.

[live2bgr8]

Theres a HUGE grey area on this. I feel theres a discipline and lifestyle change when you walk in Christ. I dont see where the personal sacrifice is when everything thats offered worldly is offered in the church. Theres no change over other than a personal declaration that "I'm saved".

I've heard the comparions that Thomas Dorsey was the Kirk franklin of his time. However, Mr Dorsey's music maintained a respect of his faith ( e.g Oh happy Day... and Precious Lord). Some things go too far. How does one justify crunk dancing when crunk dancing came from the streets? It's suddenly cleaned up and acceptable because religious overtones are replaced with the sexual salaciousness? I thought the Ministry leads the way, not conform itself to worldly influences. The good intentions are noble but wowrship and praise deserves better respect.

If it's that easy then anything can be done as long as you do it in Jesus's name and thats scary. I hear so much about personal freedom these days but very little about personal discretion and responsibility behind these decisions.

I hear you... but I don't think these artists are using Crunk to reach churched folks... That's probably why I know very little about it and still use terms like "shakin' a money maker" :lol:...

However, hip hop artists like Cross Movement help open my ears to appreciate Maranatha! Music...

If Jesus is really in it, I think he could heal wounded, broken hearts with it...

[live2bgr8]

I don't know if it's that "God flipped the script". God just gravitates to where He's being glorified. And it's easy to tell if a piece of music was composed out of a place of holiness vs. a place of hell/seducing spirits. When I saw the movie "Hustle and Flow" and saw how they came up with that music, you could sense the hypnotism in, even before dude uttered the words "whoop dat trick".

Yes, Mozart's music was considered radical, unconventional in his day (P.S., I really liked the movie "Amadeus"!), but it doesn't make all of his music any more holy. Handel's Messiah was about the Messiah, thaty's why it's anointed.

Very true... I don't listen to every artist claiming to be a Christian... That's why I said it's important for mature believers to be able to discern spirits...

BTW.. I missed Hustle and Flow for much of the same reasons I don't listen to all types of music...

I think it's important to guard your heart in every aspect... IMHO, what come through my eyes is every bit as dangerous as what comes through my ears.

However, crunk music as a ministry to non-believers... Don't see anything wrong with it... If God's really in it, He'll win the souls, and radically change lives for His glory...

We'll know a tree by it's fruit, right?

[FoxyScholar]

Very true... I don't listen to every artist claiming to be a Christian... That's why I said it's important for mature believers to be able to discern spirits...

BTW.. I missed Hustle and Flow for much of the same reasons I don't listen to all types of music...

I think it's important to guard your heart in every aspect... IMHO, what come through my eyes is every bit as dangerous as what comes through my ears.

However, crunk music as a ministry to non-believers... Don't see anything wrong with it... If God's really in it, He'll win the souls, and radically change lives for His glory...

We'll know a tree by it's fruit, right?

That's the Word!;)

[kbragg]

I don't know much about crunk... Maybe I'm too old... LOL... but the same was said about hip hop... and jazz... dancehall... Mozart was a rabble rouser... However, God has flipped the script and used those types of music for His glory... Why not crunk???

I have a radical idea for you... Jesus was the main one hanging out with untouchables... Prositutes, even:eek: ... I don't think judging a BEAT of music nor the culture it comes from is the right thing to do... The words/lyrics/arrangement ultimately convey the spirit behind it...

Without Jesus leading the way we all would be heathens... :eek: ;)

Have you ever heard of 'Lil Jon?:perplexed The music was created out of lust dedicated to strippers, oral & anal sex, drug trafficking, cursing, glrified pimps...ugh. Most of the other "genres" or what not didn't start that way. It was NOT inspired by God. Ok, have you ever heard the song "Baby Got Back?" Ok, now throw Jesus and Holy in there a couple of times. Is that CHRISTIAN???? Whatever happened to COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE YE SEPARATE? Or how about "....such WERE some of you." If there's no real difference and people can't tell who's saved from unsaved, there's a BIG problem. Certain types of music provoke the body to move in a provacative way (Think "Silk" or "Jodeci"). I don't think it'll help our brothers in Christ out if we have women up in there booty bouncin' and snake-ing their waists to "Crunk Gospel" causeing them to lust.:( It's church NOT the club PERIOD! You know I've flipped through stations before and had to listen to a song for a while before I heard "Jesus?" and most songs don't even have that. No more real message, just like the world. I agree with BMWSS, we have an issue here. Next thing you know they'll have a wet bar at the communion table with the "Drink Ministry" serving margaritias, but it's cool cause it's in the name of Jesus and since they have Jesus written on the glass, someone will get saved....:ohwell:

[live2bgr8]

Have you ever heard of 'Lil Jon?:perplexed The music was created out of lust dedicated to strippers, oral & anal sex, drug trafficking, cursing, glrified pimps...ugh. Most of the other "genres" or what not didn't start that way. It was NOT inspired by God. Ok, have you ever heard the song "Baby Got Back?" Ok, now throw Jesus and Holy in there a couple of times. Is that CHRISTIAN???? Whatever happened to COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE YE SEPARATE? Or how about "....such WERE some of you." If there's no real difference and people can't tell who's saved from unsaved, there's a BIG problem. Certain types of music provoke the body to move in a provacative way (Think "Silk" or "Jodeci"). I don't think it'll help our brothers in Christ out if we have women up in there booty bouncin' and snake-ing their waists to "Crunk Gospel" causeing them to lust.:( It's church NOT the club PERIOD! You know I've flipped through stations before and had to listen to a song for a while before I heard "Jesus?" and most songs don't even have that. No more real message, just like the world. I agree with BMWSS, we have an issue here. Next thing you know they'll have a wet bar at the communion table with the "Drink Ministry" serving margaritias, but it's cool cause it's in the name of Jesus and since they have Jesus written on the glass, someone will get saved....:ohwell:

Okay I think I see where our miscommunication lies... I think you're seeing "church" as a building where people go to hear about God... I'm seeing "church" as the Body of Christ... without walls...

Nope.. Haven't heard of Li'l Jon. Guess I've separated myself too much... :lol: But God can change him too...

Dear Precious Lord, Right now, I lift up li'l Jon and his music to you... I pray that you will turn what the devil had meant for evil and use it for your good... I pray Lord that you will open his heart to see that you have a plan for his life... yes, even his... We know that all things are possible with you. In Jesus mighty name I pray, AMEN!

I hope you will stand in agreement with me for this young man's soul... Who knows.... maybe he'll be the first crunk Billy Graham...

[StrawberryQueen]

Have you ever heard of 'Lil Jon?:perplexed The music was created out of lust dedicated to strippers, oral & anal sex, drug trafficking, cursing, glrified pimps...ugh. Most of the other "genres" or what not didn't start that way. It was NOT inspired by God. Ok, have you ever heard the song "Baby Got Back?" Ok, now throw Jesus and Holy in there a couple of times. Is that CHRISTIAN???? Whatever happened to COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE YE SEPARATE? Or how about "....such WERE some of you." If there's no real difference and people can't tell who's saved from unsaved, there's a BIG problem. Certain types of music provoke the body to move in a provacative way (Think "Silk" or "Jodeci"). I don't think it'll help our brothers in Christ out if we have women up in there booty bouncin' and snake-ing their waists to "Crunk Gospel" causeing them to lust.:( It's church NOT the club PERIOD! You know I've flipped through stations before and had to listen to a song for a while before I heard "Jesus?" and most songs don't even have that. No more real message, just like the world. I agree with BMWSS, we have an issue here. Next thing you know they'll have a wet bar at the communion table with the "Drink Ministry" serving margaritias, but it's cool cause it's in the name of Jesus and since they have Jesus written on the glass, someone will get saved....:ohwell:

What you're talking about seems more like people not being able to control themselves.

Like I said, people can be moved to do ridiculous things from any type of music.

People can listen to hip hop and not get down and compromise their morals...and someone can listen to country music and lose their minds.

I'm not defending hip hop here, I'm just not really understanding the big deal.

Every few years when gospel evolves people have a fit because the music isn't fitting in with their interpretation of what Christian music should sound like.

I mean people still say Kirk Franklin goes too far. :perplexed I really don't think that based on the beat of a song we can determine whether or not if it's "of the Lord." Isn't that how we divide ourselves as Christians? By determining what is and what is appropriate for all? What if crunk music brings people closer to Jesus? Is it still wrong? Is it better for us to liek slow flowy gospel music? I mean there's a whole lot of Christians out there who refuse to dance AT ALL because it "isn't of the Lord."

Others like to literally get up make some loud joyful noises. And jump over pews and snatch off wigs, etc. :lol:


So aside from it's origins, what's the problem? I mean if that's the case, look at all of the things that have been adopted into Christianity and turned into a positive, that were not of original Christian origins?

Can someone give an example of these crunk gospel songs? Based on what's being said, I'm thinking along the lines of Kiki Sheard? Have a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnG090B68cY I mean this song is great and has an excellent message with a nice beat and great rhythm. :yep:

I still say it's in the lyrics.