Have you noticed....

[LucieLoo12]

So Im laying in bed ...trying to go to sleep and I keep thinking about the word suffering. Have you noticed that a lot of people don't preach on the Christian having to suffering anymore? All you hear now is prosperity and houses and riches but you don't hear that you will have to suffer. And that's sad because when the Christian starts to experience trouble, they automatically think they are doing something wrong or God has forsaken them. But the Bible says through much tribulation shall we enter in by and all those who live godly shall suffer persecution. Paul also said for us to not think it strange when firery trials come to try us. That we MUST go through the fire (trouble ) to be tried and purified. Why are not the preachers warning the ppl for the tribulation that lies ahead? Why do they give this false hope that the Christian life is cookies and cream? I am not saying that the Christian life is bad...it's not. I wouldn't trade this life for nothing in the world. But I have the mind to suffer. I don't get surprised when trouble comes. I'm appointed to it. It is just coming to make me more like Christ. Why do they make a person who may be broke or poor feel like they must be doing something wrong? Maybe they are just being tried by the Lord. Just because someone is going through don't mean they are reaping the wrath of God all the time. Look at Job. He was upright and still went through. God just wanted glory. Job said can we only receive good and not evil on from the Lord? Can we only be happy in times of comfort? Do we run at the sound of tribulation?




Just my thoughts....God bless

[ZebraPrintLover]

I really dont talk much to ppl about religion besides you ladies, so I am not sure how ppl feel about this topic.

My church had a whole series on TRIALS so I understand it, heck I understand the best out of everything in the bible cause I consistently try to stay on top of it and remind myself that TRIALS make me stronger.

[ZebraPrintLover]

So Im laying in bed ...trying to go to sleep and I keep thinking about the word suffering. Have you noticed that a lot of people don't preach on the Christian having to suffering anymore? All you hear now is prosperity and houses and riches but you don't hear that you will have to suffer. And that's sad because when the Christian starts to experience trouble, they automatically think they are doing something wrong or God has forsaken them. But the Bible says through much tribulation shall we enter in by and all those who live godly shall suffer persecution. Paul also said for us to not think it strange when firery trials come to try us. That we MUST go through the fire (trouble ) to be tried and purified. Why are not the preachers warning the ppl for the tribulation that lies ahead? Why do they give this false hope that the Christian life is cookies and cream? I am not saying that the Christian life is bad...it's not. I wouldn't trade this life for nothing in the world. But I have the mind to suffer. I don't get surprised when trouble comes. I'm appointed to it. It is just coming to make me more like Christ. Why do they make a person who may be broke or poor feel like they must be doing something wrong? Maybe they are just being tried by the Lord. Just because someone is going through don't mean they are reaping the wrath of God all the time. Look at Job. He was upright and still went through. God just wanted glory. Job said can we only receive good and not evil on from the Lord? Can we only be happy in times of comfort? Do we run at the sound of tribulation?

Just my thoughts....God bless

Love the bolded, I truly needed this!

Glad you brought this up, off to pull out my sermon notes and read up on it again and get deep into it.

[ZebraPrintLover]

Ok this is just me being the study bug that I am...Hope this thread will help someone.

Trial, Trials are defined as a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation.

Test is to show proof.

Trouble, Troubles is a state, condition, or cause of distress, annoyance, difficulty, or inconvenience.

Psalm 37:33 (NLT)- But the LORD will not let the wicked succeed
or let the godly be condemned when they are put on trial.
We will go through trials, but who will you turn to? Dont run when things get tough, face it so that you may be disciplened. God will work you through a trial for your OWN good, they make us stronger.

John 16;33(NLT) I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” As Christians we should expect continuing tension with an unbelieving world that is "out of sync" with Christ, his Good New, and his ppl. At the same time, we can expect our relationship with Christ to produce peace and comfort bc we are "in sync" with him.
With the troubles we face we are not alone. JC doesnt abandon us to our struggle either.

Romans 5:3 (NLT) We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. We will experience difficulties that help us grow. We rejoice in suffering, not bc we like pain or deny tragedy, but bc we know God is using lifes difficulties and Satan's attack to build our character. The problems that we run into will develop our perseverance --which in turn will strengthen us, deepen our Trust in God, and give us greater confidence about the future. Thank God for the opportunities to grow :yep:

1 Peter 1:6-7 (NLT) So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while.These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world. Except trials as the refining process that burns away impurities and prepares us to meet JC. Our trials, struggles, and persecutions refineand strengthen our faith,making us useful to God.
Instead of asking "Why me?" we should respond to suffering with a new set of responses:
*Confidience that God knows, plans, and directs our life for the good. Its hard to calculate sometimes, but God always provides his love and strength for us. God leads us towards a better future.
*Perseverance when facing grief, anger, sorrow, and pain.
*Courage bc with JC we need not to be afraid. He who suffered for us will will not abandon us. JC carries us through everything.

1 Peter 4:12-13 (NLT) Dear friends, don’t be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you. Instead, be very glad—for these trials make you partners with Christ in his suffering, so that you will have the wonderful joy of seeing his glory when it is revealed to all the world.

2 Peter 2:9 (NLT) So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the day of final judgment.

There are four kinds of trials:
a. Trials of correction (Jonah).
b. Trials of perfection (Daniel; Matthew 8:23-27; 14:22-36 – the disciples on the water).
c. Trials of discipline (Hebrews 12:7-11 - Joseph).
d. Trials of purification (1 Peter 1:5-9; Philippians 2:12).

[loulou7]

That is so true LucieLoo12. Some preachers are giving messages for "itching ears." Nice sugar-coated Christianity. Pie in the sky religion… Christ suffered and He said the world hated him; they would also hate his followers, too.

Anyway, trials from Jesus will get you prepared for the peace He brings, after the storm has passed.

1 Peter 4:12-16 states that we shouldn't think it's strange when we suffer persecution, but rejoice... Also, it says if we suffer for being Christians we have nothing to worry about, however it mentions to make sure we don't caused unnecessary problems for ourselves by doing wrong deeds.

ZebraPrintLover, I'm glad this Christian thread is here too, because a lot of people don't want to talk about The Bible or anything in reference to it, at all!

[LucieLoo12]

ZebraPrintLover

Thanks so much for the scripture reference!!! :grin::yep:


Ok this is just me being the study bug that I am...Hope this thread will help someone.

Trial, Trials are defined as a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation.

Test is to show proof.

Trouble, Troubles is a state, condition, or cause of distress, annoyance, difficulty, or inconvenience.

Psalm 37:33 (NLT)- But the LORD will not let the wicked succeed
or let the godly be condemned when they are put on trial.
We will go through trials, but who will you turn to? Dont run when things get tough, face it so that you may be disciplened. God will work you through a trial for your OWN good, they make us stronger.

John 16;33(NLT) I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” As Christians we should expect continuing tension with an unbelieving world that is "out of sync" with Christ, his Good New, and his ppl. At the same time, we can expect our relationship with Christ to produce peace and comfort bc we are "in sync" with him.
With the troubles we face we are not alone. JC doesnt abandon us to our struggle either.

Romans 5:3 (NLT) We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. We will experience difficulties that help us grow. We rejoice in suffering, not bc we like pain or deny tragedy, but bc we know God is using lifes difficulties and Satan's attack to build our character. The problems that we run into will develop our perseverance --which in turn will strengthen us, deepen our Trust in God, and give us greater confidence about the future. Thank God for the opportunities to grow :yep:

1 Peter 1:6-7 (NLT) So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while.These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world. Except trials as the refining process that burns away impurities and prepares us to meet JC. Our trials, struggles, and persecutions refineand strengthen our faith,making us useful to God.
Instead of asking "Why me?" we should respond to suffering with a new set of responses:
*Confidience that God knows, plans, and directs our life for the good. Its hard to calculate sometimes, but God always provides his love and strength for us. God leads us towards a better future.
*Perseverance when facing grief, anger, sorrow, and pain.
*Courage bc with JC we need not to be afraid. He who suffered for us will will not abandon us. JC carries us through everything.

1 Peter 4:12-13 (NLT) Dear friends, don’t be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you. Instead, be very glad—for these trials make you partners with Christ in his suffering, so that you will have the wonderful joy of seeing his glory when it is revealed to all the world.

2 Peter 2:9 (NLT) So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the day of final judgment.

There are four kinds of trials:
a. Trials of correction (Jonah).
b. Trials of perfection (Daniel; Matthew 8:23-27; 14:22-36 – the disciples on the water).
c. Trials of discipline (Hebrews 12:7-11 - Joseph).
d. Trials of purification (1 Peter 1:5-9; Philippians 2:12).

[loolalooh]

I agree with everyone here. I also think people who are preaching on "prosperity and houses and riches" are getting more airplay because that is, unfortunately, what many people want to hear. So, in a way, the preacher has a role in that he is delivering this message for "itching ears", but also, we have a role in that we determine whether we want to hear it. There are still people out there who are preaching about suffering, but people either don't want to hear it, or if they do, they have to look beyond the surface preachers (and they're usually not far; hidden, but not far).

I also think that the world in which we live plays a role as well. If we allow the world's obsession with "immediate gratification" and "Y.O.L.O. (i.e., "you only live once") and "me, me, me" to touch us, then the preaching about suffering goes in one ear and out the other. We then become like the world and "want more for ourselves".

And then there's the reference to "ask and you shall receive". Some people take this, run with it, and ignore the concept of "dying to self", and even the part about "if it's God's will".

But I must admit that I've fallen for the "okie dokie" lately. I started to question whether "I had not" because "I asked not" or whether I had not because I had "failed, sinned" or did something wrong. That's a dangerous mindset (in my case) because you then start uniting with the world in terms of wanting to "have" and figuring out how to "have". And it need not be wealth but little things like wanting a husband now (as opposed to in God's time), etc.

Thanks for posting this thread. I agree.

[MrsHaseeb]

There are 2 sides of this coin unfortunately. Many times people are attributing suffering and trials to God that don't come from Him. If we don't ask God for wisdom in the suffering we are left going through things and attributing them to God when God is not the cause of them.

(KJV)James 1:2-5 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; [3] Knowing this , that the trying of your faith worketh patience. [4] But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. [5] If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Now why did the Word tell us to ask for wisdom after discussing trials?? Because we need to know the difference between suffering as a Christian and suffering because we want what we want and not what God wants. If you read further down in James it says:

(KJV)James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

All of that ties hand in hand. The words regarding temptation in these verses refer to trials. God doesn't allow us to suffer just because. Its for a reason. It is because there are things in us that need to be purged. The problem is that many times people are dealing with the suffering as the norm without asking God for His wisdom and His will regarding why we are going through things. It is true that many churches don't equip people for things like this and that's a shame but how much of what we go through is actually our own desires and ignorance of the will and Word of God? Yes Job was a Godly man but he had weaknesses that the enemy played upon. Job had fear of losing his possessions and his children. How do we know this? Because it says it in Job 3:25. So his suffering was not because God is a mean God that wants us all to deal with suffering for no reason. So now when I go through things, I search my heart and ask God why and to give me wisdom to go through it. My problem is not with suffering but the fact that people think God allows us to suffer for no reason.

My views are probably not the traditional ones but that's my understanding. Be blessed all!

[LucieLoo12]

Well there is a difference between suffering and being buffeted for one's own fault. And yes we suffer to be purified from our old ways.Through our sufferings we learn obedience

[MrsHaseeb]

Well there is a difference between suffering and being buffeted for one's own fault. And yes we suffer to be purified from our old ways.Through our sufferings we learn obedience

I agree. But all suffering serves a purpose whether its for us to learn obedience or to help others. Suffering is never without cause. God doesn't allow us to suffer for no apparent reason. In the Lords prayer we are told to pray against going through trials (lead us not into temptation) and also to pray for deliverance from them (deliver us from evil). My problem with the doctrine behind suffering is that people seem to think that God just puts us through things and allows us to suffer for no reason when that couldn't be further from the truth. God never puts sickness and disease on us for example but you see many people sick in churches and not being healed and somehow think that's their lot in life and God made it that way... Not true. That's my understanding but I understand the point you were making.

[LucieLoo12]

Wow I never heard that ppl think allow God us to suffer for no reason. They either think its because God is against them or they done something work.That's a new one for me



But sometimes when we are suffering it's not even for us but to help someone else who will deal with the same things we dealing with....that we may bring balm and aid to them

[MrsHaseeb]

Wow I never heard that ppl think allow God us to suffer for no reason. They either think its because God is against them or they done something work.That's a new one for me

But sometimes when we are suffering it's not even for us but to help someone else who will deal with the same things we dealing with....that we may bring balm and aid to them

My sister is a dialysis nurse and yes many of her patients are miserable and think that way, even the ones who call themselves Christians. The things they say came to mind when I read the initial post. My response wasn't directed at anyone, just something I began to understand after going through things in my own life.

[LucieLoo12]

No problem :yep:

I wasn't offended at all. Your post was very well needed. It showed both sides of the issue! Thanks for your input!


Thats make me sad that ppl think that. That they have no hope in their affliction..They don't know know everything works together for our good...


My sister is a dialysis nurse and yes many of her patients are miserable and think that way, even the ones who call themselves Christians. The things they say came to mind when I read the initial post. My response wasn't directed at anyone, just something I began to understand after going through things in my own life.

[Poohbear]

I think the idea of Christian's suffering is no longer preached about is because Christians are making almost everything acceptable under the sun where they do not have to suffer from persecution. Instead of suffering for doing what is right, holy, and true, Christians are giving in to temptations to sin and conforming to the ways of the world. They also aren't necessarily suffering because most churches teach "once saved, always saved" and that all past, present, and future sins are forgiven. They teach that we are "sinners saved by grace" and that there is no sin that can take away our salvation. There's no remorse and no repentance for sin anymore. The only suffering a Christian sees nowadays is if they are running low in money, enduring health problems, grieving a lost a loved one passed away, or being treated wrong by people.

[Belle Du Jour]

I think the idea of Christian's suffering is no longer preached about is because Christians are making almost everything acceptable under the sun where they do not have to suffer from persecution. Instead of suffering for doing what is right, holy, and true, Christians are giving in to temptations to sin and conforming to the ways of the world. They also aren't necessarily suffering because most churches teach "once saved, always saved" and that all past, present, and future sins are forgiven. They teach that we are "sinners saved by grace" and that there is no sin that can take away our salvation. There's no remorse and no repentance for sin anymore. The only suffering a Christian sees nowadays is if they are running low in money, enduring health problems, grieving a lost a loved one passed away, or being treated wrong by people.

Yep, many "Christians" are walking by their own law--whatever makes them feel good. But we know that our flesh is not a valid compass. Why do you think Joel Osteen is so popular--does the man ever preach about Hell? Jesus is very clear in the Gospel:

Not everyone who says to Me "Lord Lord" shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day "Lord Lord have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them "I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness!" Matt 7: 21-23

What does that tell me? Many who think they are "golden" will get a rude wakeup call. What a scary prospect. I think it's good to regularly think about Christ's on suffering in the Garden, on the Cross because it reminds me that He's been through it and experienced it all and He'll never give me more than I can deal with.

[Belle Du Jour]

On Redemptive Suffering of "offering it up" (from Fisheaters.com

From papercuts and mosquito bites to the ravages of cancer and the death of a loved one, suffering is a fact of life that all religions try to make sense of.

In Hinduism, suffering is seen as the result of karmic debt owed from a prior incarnation; we suffer through, building up "good karma" to balance out what is, ultimately, our own personal fault.

To Buddhists, life is suffering because we desire; this desire must be extinguished by walking the Eightfold Noble Path of right belief, right aspiration, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right thought, and right meditation.

In Islam, suffering is seen as the result of Allah's positive will ("Verily We have created man into toil and struggle” -- Qu'ran 90:4).

In Rabbinical Judaism, suffering is seen as everything from senseless to positively willed by God to (for some self-described "Torah-true" Jews) a result of Jewish disobedience.

For some brands of Protestantism, suffering is always the result of personal sin ("You're sick? You shouldn't have been playing cards..."), and God wants only "health and wealth" for His people as long as they "believe" (and "plant seeds" by sending a "love gift" to some televangelist).

In orthodox Christianity, suffering has its ultimate origins in the human will, the abuse of which, through the sin of Adam, caused the rift between God and man that only Christ can reconcile. Suffering's proximate causes are the effects of Natural Law stemming from our own actions or the actions of others (even going back through the generations), the work of demons, and God's pulling back His mantle of protection, sometimes for obvious reasons, such as punishment, sometimes for inscrutable reasons. In any case, suffering is never positively willed by God, but is allowed for our benefit in the same way a father will allow a child to suffer the consequences of his own actions so that the child will grow and learn to listen to his father, or perhaps in the same way that father might allow his child to "suffer through" piano lessons so that, someday, he will be a great pianist. We may not understand God's reasons for allowing our particular suffering, but we must always trust that we can endure with His grace, and that there is reason for it, whether it is for our correction, purification, penance, to help us realize how radically dependent we are on Him, or whether it is for His appeasement.

But how are we to react to our suffering? The answer is unique to Christianity.

We are members of the Royal Priesthood, together as one in the Mystical Body of Christ

Just as in the Old Testament, Israel of the New Covenant is made of priests:

I Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Who in times past were not a people: but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained mercy: but now have obtained mercy.

Our being (non-ministerial) priests means that we make sacrifices, we offer something. The ordained Catholic priest offers, as a representative of Christ, Sacrifices at the Altar for those who say "yes" to Christ's invitation to share the fruits of Calvary, just as the ministerial priests in the Old Testament offered sacrifices for the sins of the people. But what do we of the non-ministerial royal priesthood offer? We offer ourselves -- our bodies, hearts, praise, gratitude, worship, joys, works, and our sufferings.

Why do we do this? Because we are exhorted to "put on Christ" and to imitate Him, our High Priest and Spotless Victim, so that we might partake of the divine nature. In order to redeem us, Our Lord took on flesh and gave all to the Father; in order to be Christ-like, we, too, must take up our cross, accept suffering, and strive to offer Him all:

Luke 14: 27
And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

II Corinthians 4:8-12
In all things we suffer tribulation: but are not distressed. We are straitened: but are not destitute. We suffer persecution: but are not forsaken. We are cast down: but we perish not. Always bearing about in our body the mortification of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be made manifest in our bodies. For we who live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake: that the life also of Jesus may be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us: but life in you.

Galatians 6: 14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world.

Philippians 3:8-11
Furthermore, I count all things to be but loss for the excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ, my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them but as dung, that I may gain Christ. And may be found in him, not having my justice, which is of the law, but that which is of the faith of Christ Jesus, which is of God: justice in faith. That I may know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings: being made conformable to his death, If by any means I may attain to the resurrection which is from the dead.

I Peter 2:19-22
For this is thankworthy: if, for conscience towards God, a man endure sorrows, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, committing sin and being buffeted for it, you endure? But if doing well you suffer patiently: this is thankworthy before God. For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps.

Think of Christ in the Garden, under so much stress and agony that He literally sweated Blood. Think of Him being hounded and mocked by people who should have fallen to their knees and kissed His Feet, adoring Him and begging mercy. Think of the Creator of the sun, moon, and stars with a crown of thorns thrust onto His head, being spat upon, beaten, and nailed to a Cross. God Himself suffered in His human nature; why should we be spared?

...And now think of Him in Heaven, pouring out onto us the graces of His once and for all Sacrifice at Calvary during the unbloody re-presentation of that Sacrifice during the Mass. He is perfect, He suffered (His Sacred Heart is still wounded by our sins!), and He offers Himself yet up to the Father at each Mass -- and to us for our redemption. We are called to offer ourselves up to the Father and for others, too.

Our imitation of Him and our gifts to Him, though they are nothing without His Sacrifice, build up the Body of Christ if they are joined to His sufferings:

I Corinthians 12:26
And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it: or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it.

Colossians 1:23b-24
...whereof I Paul am made a minister. Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for His body, which is the church:

Now, is Paul saying that Christ's sufferings and Sacrifice weren't enough? Is he "taking away from Christ" by saying that we are to "fill up" those things that are "wanting" in His sufferings? No, of course not. He is saying, though, that we are One Body, that we co-operate with God in profound ways ( I Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's coadjutors [co-workers, assistants]..."), and that, in an inscrutable way, our sufferings benefit one another. We actually help Jesus in His redemption of the world by giving to Him our sufferings to build up the Body of Christ.

Think of how we are moved by those who suffer for us. We are touched when we think of what our parents sacrificed to give us, when we think of stories of people who give kidneys to strangers or risk their lives to save someone else. Christ Himself said that "greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). Well, just as we are moved by sacrificial love when it is offered to us, the Father is moved by our offered-up sufferings when they are offered along with the Passion and Sacrifice of Jesus. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote (Summa Theologica, III, 49):

Now it is the proper effect of sacrifice to appease God: just as man likewise overlooks an offense committed against him on account of some pleasing act of homage shown him. Hence it is written (1 Kings. 26:19): "If the Lord stir thee up against me, let Him accept of sacrifice." And in like fashion Christ's voluntary suffering was such a good act that, because of its being found in human nature, God was appeased for every offense of the human race with regard to those who are made one with the crucified Christ...

Just as Moses, a type of Christ, suffered for his people to appease God --

Deuteronomy 9:15-20:
And when I came down from the burning mount, and held the two tables of the covenant with both hands, And saw that you had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made to yourselves a molten calf, and had quickly forsaken his way, which he had shewn you: I cast the tables out of my hands, and broke them in your sight. And I fell down before the Lord as before, forty days and nights neither eating bread, nor drinking water, for all your sins, which you had committed against the Lord, and had provoked him to wrath: For I feared his indignation and anger, wherewith being moved against you, he would have destroyed you. And the Lord heard me this time also. And he was exceeding angry against Aaron also, and would have destroyed him, and I prayed in like manner for him.

-- we, too, can offer our sufferings for others. When given to God along with the Perfect Oblation (Christ) offered to the Father at the Mass, our offerings and sufferings are sanctified and put to use.

[Belle Du Jour]

Continued:

Offering it Up (or "Making a Good Intention")

So, how do Catholics "offer up" their sufferings and sacrifices? In both formal and informal ways.

Formally, many Catholics make the Morning Offering to give to Our Lord that day's efforts, works, joys, sufferings, intentions, etc. (the form may vary). At the Mass, we excercise our lay priesthood by consciously, silently, privately offering ourselves up, along with the Son, to the Father during the Offertory.

Informally, we "offer it up" by simply asking God in our own words to use a suffering as it occurs; we often do this for specific intentions (ex., "Use this pain, Lord, for the salvation of my brother..."). We might follow the example of the young St. Thérèse of Lisieux and make use of Sacrifice Beads, or the extraordinary among us might make the Heroic Act of Charity for the souls in Purgatory.

It's quite a discipline to react to suffering this way! In mental or physical pain? Drop something on your toe? Putting up with a co-worker who is making your life a living Hell? Enduring the constant ache of arthritis? Standing in line at the grocery and hating every minute of it? Spill the milk? Accept these things in peace, and ask God to use them for the good of the Church or for a more specific intention close to your heart. This isn't easy to do (and I in no way claim to be good at it), but it does make the suffering more meaningful and less -- well, less insufferable!

You'll find that it is not uncommon to hear one Catholic tell another who is suffering to "offer it up" as a way of dealing with his suffering. It should be remembered, though, that while it is most definitely good to tell someone to "offer it up," it is also easy -- and that we are called, too, to comfort those who are suffering, to feed the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to care for the sick, etc. Telling someone to offer it up without also helping him to deal with the temporal and emotional effects of whatever they are going through is not the fully Christian thing to do. Even Our Lord was helped while carrying His Cross: St. Veronica wiped the sweat and Blood from His Holy Face, and St. Simon of Cyrene helped Him bear the Cross itself.

And always help the suffering to retain (or regain) Hope that his suffering is not in vain. Assure him that he will partake of "the consolation":

2 Corinthians 1:5-7
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us: so also by Christ doth our comfort abound. Now whether we be in tribulation, it is for your exhortation and salvation: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation: or whether we be exhorted, it is for your exhortation and salvation, which worketh the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer. That our hope for you may be steadfast: knowing that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so shall you be also of the consolation.

Another verse for those who suffer:

Romans 8:16-18
For the Spirit Himself giveth testimony to our spirit that we are the sons of God. And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified with Him. For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come that shall be revealed in us.

See also the Beatitudes: Matthew 5:3-10

Necessary and Voluntary Mortifications

"Mortification" is the act of dying to oneself by killing off the sinful desires of the flesh as taught by St. Paul:

Romans 8:13-14
For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live. For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I Corinthians 9:25-27
And every one that striveth for the mastery refraineth himself from all things. And they indeed that they may receive a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible one. I therefore so run, not as at an uncertainty: I so fight, not as one beating the air. But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

Galatians 5:18-25
But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest: which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, lust, evil concupiscence and covetousness, which is the service of idols.

Mortification is practiced by doing what all Christians must -- fulfilling our duties, no matter how unpleasant; avoiding near occasions of sin (those situations that tempt us to sin); denying ourselves that which is evil, etc.

It can also mean voluntarily taking on unpleasant things that aren't a matter of duty or of directly fighting off evil habits, but which simply subject the flesh in order to increase humility, express contrition, and build up the Body of Christ. These acts of mortification can include offering to God small acts, such as: fasting or practicing abstinence when not bound to; denying oneself an ordinary pleasure simply for the sake of God, such as giving up cream or sugar for your coffee for a time; taking on an unpleasant task one isn't bound to take on; sitting on the hard chair rather than the soft one, etc. And they can include offering to God acts that appear (to wordly eyes) more extreme and apparently bizarre -- the wearing of hairshirts, sleeping on a hard mattress or the floor, self-flagellation, etc.

These sorts of external voluntary mortifications that aren't a matter of duty and which don't fight an evil habit directly are only beneficial insofar as they arise from the desire for humility, for penance, and to build up the Body of Christ, and insofar as they actually do lead to humility and penance. More extreme forms of mortifications should only be practiced with the guidance of a good spiritual director.

The Ultimate in "Offering it up": Victim Souls

This page can't be complete without mentioning "victim souls." A victim soul is someone who's been chosen by God to participate in Christ's Passion in a very special way by manifesting the signs of His sufferings, often in their very bodies. Suffering for the sake of love is their vocation, and such suffering is willingly accepted for the benefit of the Church. The attitude and plea of the victim soul is summed up by this prayer of St. Catherine of Siena:

The only cause of my death is my zeal for the Church of God, which devours and consumes me. Accept, O Lord, the sacrifice of my life for the Mystical Body of Thy holy Church.

St. Lydwine of Schiedam, the Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich, and St. Pio of Pietrelcina (Padre Pio) were three other such souls, and there have been many more. Often, but not necessarily, these souls receive the stigmata on their palms or feet, the wounds left by the crown of thorns, wounds in their sides as if made by a lance, stripes on their bodies as if caused by scourging, and other bodily phenomena that recall His Passion.

[LoveisYou]

What can we do to change this?

[LucieLoo12]

Poohbear
Because Thanks was not enough.:grin:


I think the idea of Christian's suffering is no longer preached about is because Christians are making almost everything acceptable under the sun where they do not have to suffer from persecution. Instead of suffering for doing what is right, holy, and true, Christians are giving in to temptations to sin and conforming to the ways of the world. They also aren't necessarily suffering because most churches teach "once saved, always saved" and that all past, present, and future sins are forgiven. They teach that we are "sinners saved by grace" and that there is no sin that can take away our salvation. There's no remorse and no repentance for sin anymore. The only suffering a Christian sees nowadays is if they are running low in money, enduring health problems, grieving a lost a loved one passed away, or being treated wrong by people.

[LucieLoo12]

What can we do to change this?

LoveisYou


Speak truth and preach the real gospel. Can we go into every single church and tell the truth? No. But we can speak truth to those we know and run into...