At this point in your Christian walk, would you date/marry someone who is unsaved?

[nicola.kirwan]

When the Jewish leaders told Jesus that they were sons of Abraham, Jesus told them that the Lord could raise up sons of Abraham from the rocks if He so chose. To call on the God of Abraham and yet reject His Christ gets people nowhere with the Lord. The true descendants of Abraham will be those who come to faith in Christ. Again, here is Jesus' response:

8Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 10Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

But not simply good works, faith in Christ:

39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did...42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

Anyone who claims to know and love God must also love Jesus, whom He sent. If someone rejects Christ, they do not know God. Jesus said that explicitly.

It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ [3] 55 But you have not known him. I know him...56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” [4] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

I post that because there's no point in talking about the commonalities. There's no shelter or special favor outside of Jesus. Christ is prior to Abraham. There's nothing to be gained and nothing proven by claiming to have an Abrahamic faith if you reject Abraham's God--Jesus. Jesus is the ark, and everything outside of Him--"good" people, bad people, "abrahamic" religious people, non-religious people--everything outside of the ark of Christ will be washed away. Nothing else is even worth speaking of.

"For I determined to know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified." I Corinthians 2:2

[mstrublvr]

Lutheran, Baptist and Anglican are all Christian denominations. Not the same argument.



I'm utterly shocked that you believe we worship the same God. I completely disagree. Christianity, Islam and Judaism may all have Abraham in common, but that does not mean Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God. If that were true, why do all three faiths have different views of Jesus? Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims believe He is not, and Jews are still waiting for their messiah. How then are we all worshipping the same God?

I referenced the denominations because their divisions started at one point just like the 3 religions did. Sooo Jesus wasn't raised a Jew? He was a pre-christian only...House of David was pre-christian but just didn't know it? Come on sister, do your homework. All God's children. Either you are as I want to believe funning us or your christian walk only started with the New Testament...which is just sad.

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[nicola.kirwan]

I referenced the denominations because their divisions started at one point just like the 3 religions did. Sooo Jesus wasn't raised a Jew? He was a pre-christian only...House of David was pre-christian but just didn't know it? Come on sister, do your homework. All God's children. Either you are as I want to believe funning us or your christian walk only started with the New Testament...which is just sad.

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Picking apart one individual's posts confuses the point. Let's broaden the discussion if it must be had. Regardless of the starting point of any group or organization, the question is what is at its core now. The unifying factor between Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. is precisely the dividing factor between Jews, Christians and Muslims--Jesus of Nazareth. Those who embrace Him as God and Lord find themselves bound into one spiritual body--regardless of their external traditions. And those who do not embrace Him as God and Lord separate themselves.

As Jesus told the Jewish leaders, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Before there were commandments to follow, sacrifices to make, genealogies to trace, there was Christ. A Christian who recognizes such is not ignorant, but rather cognizant of that theological reality.

[mstrublvr]

nicola.kirwan

I am not nor I think anyone else who doesn't agree with you actually debating the Word. I disagree with your interpretation.

Your dismissiveness negates the reasoning, prophets and learning of the whole 1st half of bible and Christ's lineage. From what you are saying all the ones pre Christ are just going to????..cause they didn't accept Christ? Come on..they will have a chance, just like Muslims and Jews..and anyone else who loves God. Honestly what I think is Christians kinda have a fast-pass thru the judgement round..to put it simple.

I truly hope you have a chance to travel and meet other people who love God as much as you do, but in different ways..maybe your heart will soften and be more open to them.

[Guitarhero]

Lutheran, Baptist and Anglican are all Christian denominations. Not the same argument.



I'm utterly shocked that you believe we worship the same God. I completely disagree. Christianity, Islam and Judaism may all have Abraham in common, but that does not mean Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God. If that were true, why do all three faiths have different views of Jesus? Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims believe He is not, and Jews are still waiting for their messiah. How then are we all worshipping the same God?


Why are you shocked? Because of culture, history and their own various prophets. Tis why I say it's one's interpretation of the truth as they see it. I don't know what G-d you worship, but the same one from Mt. Sinai then is the same one I worship today. When I think of G-d, I think of G-d. When I think of Jesus, I see the Messiah. Of course, there's the H-ly Spirit but they are part of the Trinity. Sometimes, my prayers are directed specifically to the individual in the Trinity, if that makes any sense.

[Guitarhero]

Humor:

You know that joke? My G-d told me this and said you're wrong. Un huh, my G-d told me you are wrong. Well my G-d told me to tell your G-d to shut up.

:rolleyes: We all stand on the same earth.

[nicola.kirwan]

[QUOTE=nicola.kirwan;13765771]

I am not nor I think anyone else who doesn't agree with you actually debating the Word. I disagree with your interpretation.

Your dismissiveness negates the reasoning, prophets and learning of the whole 1st half of bible and Christ's lineage. From what you are saying all the ones pre Christ are just going to????..cause they didn't accept Christ? Come on..they will have a chance, just like Muslims and Jews..and anyone else who loves God. Honestly what I think is Christians kinda have a fast-pass thru the judgement round..to put it simple.

Your interpretation reminds me of all religious zealots...and I guess I am just a heathen lol..smh.

I didn't really interpret much. Jesus' words speak for themselves.
mstrublvr, you keep accusing people of being unaware, but the issue you raised is also addressed in Scripture. You also assume a lot. No where did I indicate that everyone pre-Christ had no chance. That question is well addressed in Christian theology.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

The bolded lets us know about those who came before Christ. Your points are similar to many others who raise them but aren't taking the time to really study how Christians have responded to those questions over time. You aren't the first person to think about these issues.

[fifi134]

Honestly mstrublvr, you can do all the arguing you want but the fact of the matter is that the Bible says those who do not believe in Jesus Christ and His blood-saving work on Calvary are not a Christian. That includes Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, and any other non-Christian religion out there. That is not to say that a Muslim today may not get saved tomorrow, but if they do, they will be a Muslim no more, they will be a Christian. Jesus is the core of all of this, without Him, you cannot be saved.

We have been giving you God's Word throughout this thread. Our standard of living as Christians should be the Holy Bible, because:

2 Timothy 3:16, 17: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and, training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Anything outside of that will lead us astray and into destruction. Any issue you have with these Bible verses we are posting you may take up with God. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and His statutes will remain as such. I really do hope you can see that we do this not for our glory, nor to judge, but for the glory of God. He told us to preach the gospel, and we are doing so. May the Lord bless you and direct you to Him.

[mstrublvr]

Maybe if you don't use others just like you only as sounding boards, you will hear something different. But again, you probably only want echo.

Again and again, my same points are: I am open to possibilities and God is a god of possibilities. I accept that other religions love God too. I believe in the Christ. What else..thats about it for me. OH new one...people interpret scriptures different. Hmm I don't think God will have a problem with any of that.

[fifi134]

Why are you shocked? Because of culture, history and their own various prophets. Tis why I say it's one's interpretation of the truth as they see it. I don't know what G-d you worship, but the same one from Mt. Sinai then is the same one I worship today. When I think of G-d, I think of G-d. When I think of Jesus, I see the Messiah. Of course, there's the H-ly Spirit but they are part of the Trinity. Sometimes, my prayers are directed specifically to the individual in the Trinity, if that makes any sense.

I worship the God of the Holy Bible, but there is a big issue with saying that the very people who deny Jesus' deity (which is majorly essential to Christian belief) worship the same God.

[mstrublvr]

Humor:

You know that joke? My G-d told me this and said you're wrong. Un huh, my G-d told me you are wrong. Well my G-d told me to tell your G-d to shut up.

:rolleyes: We all stand on the same earth.

Lol love it. I really think aliens who love God need to land or show themselves..put some real pepper in this mix.

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[makeupgirl]

nicola.kirwan

I am not nor I think anyone else who doesn't agree with you actually debating the Word. I disagree with your interpretation.

Your dismissiveness negates the reasoning, prophets and learning of the whole 1st half of bible and Christ's lineage. From what you are saying all the ones pre Christ are just going to????..cause they didn't accept Christ? Come on..they will have a chance, just like Muslims and Jews..and anyone else who loves God. Honestly what I think is Christians kinda have a fast-pass thru the judgement round..to put it simple.

I truly hope you have a chance to travel and meet other people who love God as much as you do, but in different ways..maybe your heart will soften and be more open to them.

People can love God all they want to but all he ask is to acknowledge, trust, believe, and accept his son. If someone has a relationship with Christ, they have chosen to acknowledge Christ as God in the flesh, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and has confessed that they are a sinner that needs forgiveness. Those who existed before Christ believed just as we believe but differently because he was the prophesied coming Messiah that would take away the sins of the world. Do you know how many people knows this information and continue to reject him? It's not above love. That is one of the fruits of the Spirit that we as believers inherit via the Holy Spirit upon the profession of our faith. A true born again Christian knows the voice of the Father and knows that when he said not to be yoked together with unbelievers, well it's for the best that we are to listen. Amen. Blessings can be given easily but blessings can also be hindered just as easily because of disobedience and the Lord my Eternal God that I serve awards those who diligently seek him and obey his word.

[makeupgirl]

I worship the God of the Holy Bible, but there is a big issue with saying that the very people who deny Jesus' deity (which is majorly essential to Christian belief) worship the same God.

Preach it sister

[makeupgirl]

Maybe if you don't use others just like you only as sounding boards, you will hear something different. But again, you probably only want echo.

Again and again, my same points are: I am open to possibilities and God is a god of possibilities. I accept that other religions love God too. I believe in the Christ. What else..thats about it for me. OH new one...people interpret scriptures different. Hmm I don't think God will have a problem with any of that.

Bite your tongue, yes he will. There is a verse at the end of revelation that states not to add or take away from the scriptures and he also reveals the punishment of those who do. Whether it's adding/subtracting from or twisting and misinterpreting scriptures, it's wrong and God doesn't like it.

[mstrublvr]

Bite your tongue, yes he will. There is a verse at the end of revelation that states not to add or take away from the scriptures and he also reveals the punishment of those who do. Whether it's adding/subtracting from or twisting and misinterpreting scriptures, it's wrong and God doesn't like it.

Again funny. Please don't speak for my God. And the quote you use will damn every bible maker because that's exactly what the KJ version did and all others after it. As a matter fact, you should chuck your bible so you don't get punished too for reading a twisted word. Seriously people take it down a notch.

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[OhmyKimB]

Lutheran, Baptist and Anglican are all Christian denominations. Not the same argument.



I'm utterly shocked that you believe we worship the same God. I completely disagree. Christianity, Islam and Judaism may all have Abraham in common, but that does not mean Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God. If that were true, why do all three faiths have different views of Jesus? Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims believe He is not, and Jews are still waiting for their messiah. How then are we all worshipping the same God?


Actually...

Judism-Abraham
Islam- Ishmael
Christianity-Abraham

all the same ppl, Ishmael would have clearly followed his father while he was with him. So everyone has the same start. He was always supposed to contend against Issac, and that meant in all ways. Faith included.

The Jews in the bible were good for turning away from God, I mean constantly so it would logically make sense that they wouldn't believe in Jesus. Not like they listened any other time. (I'm not saying it to be mean I'm just saying it plain and in a condensed way that is not drawn out)

Islam well is Ishmael wasn't with his father wouldn't he have just answered his questions. If the Jews didn't accept Jesus I don't seem Islam doing it, they at least call him a prophet.

Either way it is the same God, however who is listening to what to do is the issue...so while I understand the point that was attempted to be made Nicole is right.

[Poohbear]

Lutheran, Baptist and Anglican are all Christian denominations. Not the same argument.



I'm utterly shocked that you believe we worship the same God. I completely disagree. Christianity, Islam and Judaism may all have Abraham in common, but that does not mean Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God. If that were true, why do all three faiths have different views of Jesus? Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims believe He is not, and Jews are still waiting for their messiah. How then are we all worshipping the same God?

fifi134 - I believe the point that mstrublvr was trying to make is this...

You know how you just asked why do all three faiths (Christians, Muslims, Jews) have different views of Jesus?

Well, the point is... why do the various denominations within Christianity have different views of Jesus? (not a question to be answered, it's rhetorical, just to ponder on).

Think about it. One of the main issues is the concept of Trinity. Some Christians believe Jesus is God (Baptists). Some Christians do not believe Jesus is God (Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah Witnesses). And that's just one hangup.

There are more fundamental and doctrinal disagreements. That's why there's so much division within the Christian religion...Baptist, Penecostal, Methodist, Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Presbyterian, Seventh Day Adventist, Amish, and you know what's even more sad? Divisions among denominations! Just take Baptist alone...you have Southern Baptist, Anabaptist, American Baptist, etc.

Jesus did not want this. And that's why we shouldn't get caught up in labels nor the traditional "church" system. We must solely rely on the Spirit of God.

[OhmyKimB]

@nicola.kirwan (http://www.longhaircareforum.com/member.php?u=54781)

I am not nor I think anyone else who doesn't agree with you actually debating the Word. I disagree with your interpretation.

Your dismissiveness negates the reasoning, prophets and learning of the whole 1st half of bible and Christ's lineage. From what you are saying all the ones pre Christ are just going to????..cause they didn't accept Christ? Come on..they will have a chance, just like Muslims and Jews..and anyone else who loves God. Honestly what I think is Christians kinda have a fast-pass thru the judgement round..to put it simple.

I truly hope you have a chance to travel and meet other people who love God as much as you do, but in different ways..maybe your heart will soften and be more open to them.

You know. I was with you before at least in understanding the point you are trying to make. However u seem to be missing on thing which makes me wonder do you believe in the trinity? Everyone responding is under the impression that you do, and if you don't then we can just leave u to your own devices.

Either way. No matter what man was alive at what time, in which city, talking to himself or the Lord. JESUS WAS HERE FIRST.

When there was nothing there was Jesus. When there was grass it was Jesus.

How can you only love, respect, trust, and believe in part of a person? Not possible so how to do you chose to do that to God?

Jesus was raised a Jew, however the ppl he came to save didn't even believe in him.

I referenced the denominations because their divisions started at one point just like the 3 religions did. Sooo Jesus wasn't raised a Jew? He was a pre-christian only...House of David was pre-christian but just didn't know it? Come on sister, do your homework. All God's children. Either you are as I want to believe funning us or your christian walk only started with the New Testament...which is just sad.

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This isn't meant to be sarcastic, but I'm a sarcastic person so oh well. Being as God, Jesus, and the holy spirit are one when Abraham prayed and God answered who do you think was there? You can decide that because the human version of Jesus didn't show until after Abraham that he just appeared. Remember what it is that he came for

Picking apart one individual's posts confuses the point. Let's broaden the discussion if it must be had. Regardless of the starting point of any group or organization, the question is what is at its core now. The unifying factor between Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. is precisely the dividing factor between Jews, Christians and Muslims--Jesus of Nazareth. Those who embrace Him as God and Lord find themselves bound into one spiritual body--regardless of their external traditions. And those who do not embrace Him as God and Lord separate themselves.

As Jesus told the Jewish leaders, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Before there were commandments to follow, sacrifices to make, genealogies to trace, there was Christ. A Christian who recognizes such is not ignorant, but rather cognizant of that theological reality.

[OhmyKimB]

Maybe if you don't use others just like you only as sounding boards, you will hear something different. But again, you probably only want echo.

Again and again, my same points are: I am open to possibilities and God is a god of possibilities. I accept that other religions love God too. I believe in the Christ. What else..thats about it for me. OH new one...people interpret scriptures different. Hmm I don't think God will have a problem with any of that.


Differently doesn't mean right. No one said if others love God theirs or ours, the thing was if you can't love the same God I love then no. Not the version and allotment someone has made of him, but HIM the real God in full.

For example that different thing is a reason one of those nuns said in school common people weren't allowed to really have a bible or to know it. Different leads to problems and leading others astray

[fifi134]

Poohbear, I understand that. There are some denominations that according to Christian doctrine, shouldn't be there. I also agree that Jesus would not have wanted these denominations. I have no answer for that but that all that should matter are the essentials of Christian beliefs. If you go by that standard alone, that automatically eliminates Muslims, Jews, and everyone else (including some "christian" denominations) who do not believe what Christianity preaches.