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joy2day
10-05-2010, 01:09 PM
Ok, now we have gone in a direction that I did not intend. Did you not first put "words in my mouth?" I let that go. I never accused you of anything.

My statement about "the world seeing what the Body of Christ won't see," was not directed toward you, it was a general statement.

I have clearly outlined what I discerned about this situation. What is up with that question?

God Bless you all. I am done.

Are you serious? What makes you think I'm not aware of what's going on and what am I refusing to acknowledge?

Let me ask you this: What has the Holy Spirit said to you concerning Eddie Long?


Stop putting words in my mouth. All I said is we don't know the facts about THIS CASE; A man is accused and whether it is falsely, remains to be seen. (Natural laws apply here) He still has to go through the legal process, thus my bolded statement.

On the spiritual side, whether he steps down is between Him and God. I've already settled that in my spirit. Because I'm not nailing Eddie to the cross like some of you are, doesn't mean I believe he is above reproach, it doesn't mean I'm idolizing him or putting natural laws above God's Laws. Please, stop that.

Here's an article, I'd read that I agree with:
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Fourth Man Accuses Bishop Eddie Long
Posted on September 24, 2010 by Chrystal Whitt

I just heard on the news that a fourth man has come forward to accuse Bishop Eddie Long of sexual coercion. It’s important to note that Long maintains his innocence, and until we hear otherwise, we need to tread with care as we follow this story. With that said, I find it necessary to convey something that has been eating at me for a while, and that is the fact that false doctrine isn’t enough to wake people up, but a homosexual scandal is.

If it were a perfectly Biblical world, we wouldn’t have the Benny Hinns, Paula Whites, Todd Bentleys, Eddie Longs, or Mike Bickles to contend with. If it were a perfect world, the church would smell a rat, or in this case, a wolf, and they would turn away immediately; a scandal wouldn’t be necessary to jar people loose from the pews. I find it maddening that if people turn away from a false teacher when he’s caught in a scandal, they aren’t turning away because of the false doctrine, they’re turning away because of bad behavior on the part of the leader. Sickening, isn’t it? You want to know what is even more frustrating than that? Some won’t leave, regardless.

As I said above, Eddie Long declares his innocence, and it must be stated that this man has had nothing proven against him as of this point. Not publicly anyway. But, that doesn’t excuse his congregation, some 25,000 strong, and his followers, which could number into the hundreds of thousands, or even millions globally, who promote, enable, and support him in his false doctrine. Were they Biblically discerning, they wouldn’t have just turned away long ago, they never would have followed him to begin with.

I point this finger at myself as well because I remember the days when I, myself, was in bondage to false doctrine. I haven’t forgotten that I used to believe in and support these people. Perhaps it hurts and stings so deeply because I remember what their lies did to my perception of God and my relationship with Him. Thankfully, there were people like Sandy Simpson and Mike Oppenheimer who, through their writings, took me by the hand and led me safely out of deception. I’ll always be grateful for that.

Please keep Bishop Eddie Long in your prayers, that God would grant him repentance. Please pray for his accusers as well, because whether the allegations are true or false, they will need sorely need it.

Source: Fourth Man Accuses Bishop Eddie Long | Slaughter of the Sheep (http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/fourth-man-accuses-bishop-eddie-long/)

PinkPebbles
10-05-2010, 02:08 PM
On the spiritual side, whether he steps down is between Him and God. I've already settled that in my spirit.



Laela -

The above statement stood out to me. It's not my intention to offend but I'd like to comment.

When seasoned elders, deacons, and ministers can no longer judge the actions of their pastor, nor have the right to question certain day to day activity, nor be able to pull their pastor to the side on behalf of the congregation to speak the truth in love, bring correction when needed, and unable to make a sound decision to have their pastor step down temporarily or permanently to be restored or to get his affairs in order; then I can't help but say this pastor is above reproach, spiritual laws, and guidance.

Whenever someone doesn't have accountability pride, arrogance, and idolatry will soon follow and take root. With that said, we all need someone to check us from time to time regardless of title and position.:yep:

Laela
10-05-2010, 02:08 PM
Well, sorry Joy, the question was in response to a statement I made, so how could it not have been directed at me? I'm not one to "contend with the priests" concerning God's Word," so I won't allow anyone to go in that direction with me.

I'll note that article condemns a whole flock, and that part I don't agree with completely, because that author also doesn't know where those individuals are with God either. I won't deny what's in front of me... but running with the crowd is just as bad. The rest of the article is on point: We all need to tread carefully concerning this case and not allow our emotions to cause us to rush to judgment so early in the process concerning those allegations.

That is ALL I'm saying.

If God spoke to you or anyone about this, I'm listening.


Laela, I am trying to back off of this issue because it is so very "emotionally charged" and I am feeling "some kinda way" right now, but I want to pose a question to the bolded in your response below, "Do the 'natural laws' (the laws we abide by in the US, for example), apply to the things of the Spirit (in all instances)? Does the 'world' supercede the Spirit? Is discernment subject to the Spirit of the Living God, or to man's natural laws?"

My questions here are rhetorical. Food for thought, really.

It makes me even sadder that the world can see what some of us in the Body refuse to see and acknowledge.

Laela
10-05-2010, 02:45 PM
No offense taken, PinkPebbles... :yep:

Good point. I don't know what went down at that church, whether he was counseled, chastised or talked to. Isn't the bolded statement an oxymoron? Can one be 'seasoned' in the faith and not be discerning? I'm more inclined to believe they are treading carefully, but I could be wrong.

God sits high and He looks low, Long is not above God, yet we're talking with such anxiety, as if we believe he is. Long cannot escape God's judgment; God's Love and Mercy is still available to him if he is indeed guilty. For restoration of any kind to take place, there must first be a confession and redemption, so I see the horse behind the cart.

I believe God is the one qualified to handle this matter, not us (including me). James 3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james%203&version=NIV)

With this, I'll leave this matter alone.. a wonder lasts but 9 days...

God bless you, PinkPebbles & Joy2day... I'm not angry at all; will just agree we don't disagree on some things.






Laela -

The above statement stood out to me. It's not my intention to offend but I'd like to comment.

When seasoned elders, deacons, and ministers can no longer judge the actions of their pastor, nor have the right to question certain day to day activity, nor be able to pull their pastor to the side on behalf of the congregation to speak the truth in love, bring correction when needed, and unable to make a sound decision to have their pastor step down temporarily or permanently to be restored or to get his affairs in order; then I can't help but say this pastor is above reproach, spiritual laws, and guidance.

Whenever someone doesn't have accountability pride, arrogance, and idolatry will soon follow and take root. With that said, we all need someone to check us from time to time regardless of title and position.:yep:

PinkPebbles
10-05-2010, 03:46 PM
No offense taken, PinkPebbles... :yep:

Good point. I don't know what went down at that church, whether he was counseled, chastised or talked to. Isn't the bolded statement an oxymoron? Can one be 'seasoned' in the faith and not be discerning? I'm more inclined to believe they are treading carefully, but I could be wrong.
God sits high and He looks low, Long is not above God, yet we're talking with such anxiety, as if we believe he is. Long cannot escape God's judgment; God's Love and Mercy is still available to him if he is indeed guilty. For restoration of any kind to take place, there must first be a confession and redemption, so I see the horse behind the cart.

I believe God is the one qualified to handle this matter, not us (including me). James 3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james%203&version=NIV)

With this, I'll leave this matter alone.. a wonder lasts but 9 days...

God bless you, PinkPebbles & Joy2day... I'm not angry at all; will just agree we don't disagree on some things.

I hear you Laela.:)

@ the bolded I'm going to call a spade a spade.

What I say next is not based on what I heard but what I know and what I've witnessed as a former member at New Birth.

There are some seasoned elders, deacons, and ministers that eye witnessed some immoral & unethical activity within the church concerning Bishop Long. Instead of addressing and correcting the issue they turned a blind eye.

Everyone in this thread knows that Bishop Long is not above God. However, I've encountered some and a special emphasis on the word some members / followers do treat Bishop Long as if he is above reproach, spiritual guidance, and the law.

As I stated previously, whenever someone doesn't have accountability pride, arrogance, and idolatry will follow and take root. And sadly this is what's taking place in the church.

I was very vocal about this Eddie Long situation but still held back a lot. I'm not here to entertain nor cause division; but I will not defend or stand behind something that I know in my heart that's not right.

I have the love of Christ for all of you....God Bless.:Rose:

Guitarhero
10-05-2010, 04:43 PM
A mega church grows because people are coming to Christ; if 10% are living wrong, that doesn't mean the whole church is going to hell on a speedboat. Everything is relative and that 10% could also be in a small congregation of 100! So I really don't get this anti-megachurch talk.

The most important thing is that we all are right with the Most High and our fragrance are a sweet savor to His nostrils...

I personally am not anti-mega church or formal structure/institution at all. I agree with this point. And I didn't realize that some of the public is calling for the destruction of this church. That's not good either. You're right, the faithful remain and need leadership. They need just and righteous leadership. They will definitely carry on.

Mahalialee4
10-05-2010, 05:44 PM
1. The Word of God says a 'bishop is to have a fine report on the outside', and right now he does not. UNTIL and IF if he is cleared of the charges, he is not QUALIFIED to TEACH or to 'continue leading that group of believers.' The Word of God says: "At that MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES LET EVERY MATTER BE ESTABLISHED." THAT MAY TAKE SOME TIME. He is no longer 'SCRIPTURALLY qualified'!

Deuteronomy 19:15 ONE witness is not enough TO CONVICT a man ACCUSED of any crime or offense he MAY have committed. A MATTER MUST BE ESTABLISHED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

So the accusation or testimony of TWO OR THREE is ENOUGH to convict a man accused of ANY CRIME, OR OFFENSE, HE """MAY""" HAVE COMMITTED.

1. Timothy 5:19 "Against an elder receive not an accusation, BUT BEFORE TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. 20Them that sin REBUKE BEFORE ALL,, that others also may fear. 21I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. 22Lay hands suddenly on no man, NEITHER BE PARTAKERS OF OTHER MEN'S SINS: keep thyself pure."

'Innocent until proven guilty' does not provide for an elder to remain in a position of spiritual authority, when he no longer has a good report on the inside or the outside...and when there is reproach attached to his name and to his office.
No one wants to be declared a 'sharer in evil works." The Word does NOT say that HE HAS TO BE PROVEN GUILTY in a Court of Law, first.

NOTICE THAT NO ONE responded to THE WORD AND WHAT IT SAYS. Just glossed it over.
People are taking sides, and the Word of God has already settled it. Can't we handle that?

And NO! it is not UP TO BISHOP LONG! It is up to the body of Christ to demand that he step down based on the Word of God. Who is the head of the Body of Christ? Christ or Bishop Long? Where is the FEAR OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, AMONG HIS PEOPLE?

Br*nzeb*mbsh~ll
10-09-2010, 12:35 AM
I get the very eerie feeling that this will all end very, very badly.

Not just with a pronouncement of innocence or guilt, but a taking of one's life due to embarrassment, shame, and remorse.

Lord, have mercy, I pray!

Spring
10-09-2010, 12:08 PM
I get the very eerie feeling that this will all end very, very badly.

Not just with a pronouncement of innocence or guilt, but a taking of one's life due to embarrassment, shame, and remorse.

Lord, have mercy, I pray!

God have mercy on everyone involved ....

for some reason, I was very concerned about the pressure on the young men,... but Long... I can't picture him doing anything like that.... he seemed humble that first Sunday, after that he went right back to his usual self :(